KOTOR - The MMORPG

Maximilian

..has been announced. Bioware are making it.

I wonder on a scale of 1-10 how awesome this might turn out.

R0ot

My guess is 11 :pac:

Venom

Awesome news indeedy.

Cunny-Funt

It had been rumored this is was going to happen for ages (from what I understood, they announced they were working on a mmorpg plus announced they were working on KOTOR 3, so people but 1 + 1 together)

I'm so glad this is true!

Any links or anything?

This is officially now my most anticipated game.

I was looking forward to STO but it seems that doomed.

Zarbon

Star Wars? Thought the past games where online?

Mena

I guess this spells the final doom for Star Wars Galaxies, well, even more so than what SOE did to it. Can't wait for this but if I've learned anything its not to get my hopes up at all.

Sand

Hopes are not high. KOTOR series was a good single player experience, but transferring it to an MMO?

MMO has one basic model:

Lots of grinding, more grinding, some more grinding....grind some more. Yeah, grind more. No actual player effect on the world. Disney park rides that reset each time. PvP and any other form of player interaction is heavily nerfed and restricted.

Anything different has an extremely high chance of fail as the majority of mmo players are carebears. And with EA involved, its just going to be WoW with lightsabers and hordes of jedi griding banthas till they hit level whatever and the boss bantha drops their epic lightsaber. Thats the KOTOR experience we all treasured wasnt it?

Trying to balance jedi [ force wielding, blaster defelecting, mind controlling, ass whupping zen pwn masters] against non-jedi to avoid all sorts of whinging? Only way to beat that would to be make all characters jedi - [knights of the old republic, not smugglers of the old republic afterall]. Thats going to have its own issues too.

So nope, not too estatic. KOTOR 3 would have been better news tbh.

Ivan

These are all excellent points, however I have some counter arguments...

Bioware is the grand daddy of RPG developers going, yes Knights of the Old Republic is what they are best known for, but they also produced a whole slew of AD&D RPGs that effectively stole my 1990's

Also, I like to think that MMO designing and implementation has come away from grinding, but more importantly, when you compare modern (or even old skool) mmos to RPGs like KotoR they are effectively the same. Grinding is killing monsters/enemies in either game and its the story and the sense of progression that provides the entertainment.

Star Wars Galaxies was a tremendous success for what it was and for when it was released in the grand timeline of MMOs. Now we have a fantastic software company developing a new Star Wars MMO with a publisher that isnt Sony Online. To me, that can only equal win. All I can say is, you need to have a little more faith

Sand

Id argue the traditional strengths of Bioware RPGs have been epic storylines and excellently developed NPCS that actually have an impact beyond their stats.

Thats not going to translate into a MMO. The main vision people have is " Just like KOTOR, but in an MMO" when theyre entirely different game designs. How are you going to have that epic storyline and excellent NPCs when youve got some guy called "K0CKMASTA!!!" /dancing through every area when hes not ganking you before humping your corpse?

Just dont see the "Bioware did great on KOTOR, so a KOTOR MMO will be great" logic as Biowares strengths wont be in play.

And MMOs are still grindfests, with the exception of EVE Online due to its skill training system. AoC is the latest MMO I tried, and its a bloody levelled grindfest, minimal player effect on other players or the game world, etc etc.

In KOTOR, the XP was incidental as you picked it up along the storyline quests and there was vastly more XP in the game than you needed to reach the cap. IIRC I simply could not level any further for the last third of the game, and I wasnt having to spend my time camping spawn points to get there.

In games like AoC and WoW, grinding is the game and the "storyline" is irrelevant to the XP/Loot gained from quests or mobs...."Yeah right, whatever, kill 10 rats and collect their tails - just like the 10000 other guys whove already done it". Turn in Quest #4532, get random XP, get some phat lewt. Relentlessly hunt down next quest giver or grinding spot to get to next level and get better lewt.

This is the prevailing MMO model, and with EA holding the reins I sincerly doubt we will see anything daring or innovative from this title. I mean, AoC has already nailed down the combo moves, which is the most innovative thing MMOs have seen for years which is how dry and parched the genre is of creativity.

Ivan

There is plenty of innovation in MMOs the problem is, unless it is massively successful, odds are, the average joe punter like yourself, wont hear about it.

Age of Conan brought in something unique; Guild wars, City of Heroes, hell even Vanguard and Matrix Online brought some innovation and creativity to the genre. Unfortunately however, that is rarely enough to make a successful MMO.

But more than all this, your viewpoint of Bioware's capabilities are incredibly narrow too. Yes, they had a strong hand in KotoR but they also worked on Baldur's Gate 1&2, Icewind Dale 1&2 and even the Neverwinters Night franchise. Baldur's Gate 2 and the Icewind Dales' all involved building a group of your own characters and plodding through the finely crafted worlds. There was less of NPC interaction in that Memorable way that Baldur's Gate 1 and KotoR did.

But it sounds to me as though you are missing the bigger picture when it comes to MMOs. They are all the same old model, even EvE with its unique concepts are just a hook. The freedom and the training system lie on top of a system that is precisely the same as every other MMO because the unescapable truth is, thats what sells. Its the hooks and the polish that is built on top of the traditional MMO that makes it a success or not.

Here we have a (nother) Star Wars hook with the creators of several very polished RPGs. In essence, all that is needed is some quality polish and it should be a success. Still, I'm not going to jump to conclusions, as that is precisely what I'm trying to tell you to avoid. This game could be great and it might not be. In fact, given the current success to failure rate of modern MMOs, it seems likely that it will be a failure. But Bioware has certainly earned the right to receive our hope.

Finally, to address your grumbling about EA; they have shown countless times their willingness to grant their "minions" the freedom to create as they normally would. Their only evil, if you can call it that, is that they cash in big time when they see dollar signs. Maybe a KotoR MMO is just another giant golden dollar sign for them to squirrel away to their flogged-horse vault, but either way it's in Biowares hands now.

steviec

I agree with that.

Basically it comes down to two things - firstly, MMOs don't have to be typical grindfests and it is possible to do more with them. Secondly, Bioware don't have to stick rigidly to single player stories along the lines of KOTOR and they've already shown that they're capable of other things in previous games.

I think what's important to remember is that the people at Bioware are some of the best in the world, and just because they've made games that specialise in one area in the past, doesn't mean they aren't able to bring their skills to other genres. A great game designer will still be a great game designer when approaching new genres.

I loved the KOTOR games and think it would be a great universe to spend a lot more time in, and I think Bioware are a team capable of making a compelling MMO that could move the genre forward. Maybe they won't but I'm keen to see what they come up with.

Zarbon

This game is a nice idea but you're kidding yourselves if you think grinding will ever disappear. They want you to keep coming back...that is what an MMORPG is. You'll never be "done", "finished", whatever. Say what you want, it keeps coming back to grinding. Horribly boring but that's what you bought/will buy.

I've personally had my fill of MMO's. You might someday too.

Maximilian

Zarbon wrote: »

This game is a nice idea but you're kidding yourselves if you think grinding will ever disappear. They want you to keep coming back...that is what an MMORPG is. You'll never be "done", "finished", whatever. Say what you want, it keeps coming back to grinding. Horribly boring but that's what you bought/will buy.

I've personally had my fill of MMO's. You might someday too.

You could say the same thing about single player rpg's too - it all just grinding for XP dressed up with quests & side quests, albeit more immersive and interesting. Hell you could say Pac Man was just a grind for points. What's key is how much fun "grinding" is. To be fair, I don't think any MMO has really got this right - it just tends to be repetitive gameplay with quests providing a reason to be in any particular spot.

This issue is well known to everyone who has played MMO's and particularly developers. One day, I'm pretty sure someone will crack it as innovation does occasionally happen with games. If anyone can crack this nut, it's Bioware.

Sure, it's not guaranteed this will be any different to other MMO's but I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt.

evil-monkey

Maximilian wrote: »

..has been announced. Bioware are making it.

I wonder on a scale of 1-10 how awesome this might turn out.

i was under the impression that this wasn't being made official until the 21st.

SWG broke my heart, so i'd love the rumours to be true. but as another poster already pointed out, i'm not getting excited until the 21st when it has been confirmed, singed, sealed and we've got some idea of when it will be delivered...

Maximilian

Yeah it's not "official" but somebody let it slip to the press.

evil-monkey

Maximilian wrote: »

Yeah it's not "official" but somebody let it slip to the press.

well it'll all be made public tomorrow. i really do hope it's a fully fledged MMORPG. Galaxies broke my heart and I've been wandering around other MMOs aimlessly ever since!!

evil-monkey

been looking around online but there doesn't seem to be any trace of the "big announcement" scheduled for today...

Holsten

This game will take over my entire life...

And I'm ok with that.

http://www.swtor.com/

humanji

Fan-f*cking-tastic!

Here are the first pictures ...........................

http://pc.ign.com/objects/816/816935.html


Im really looking forward to it . Galaxies is just stale . I have a level 90 Jedi on that. I must go back on and give people my money . I have about 30 mil.

evil-monkey

looking forward to this game. any idea of a release date??

evil-monkey

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a level 90 Jedi on that. I must go back on and give people my money . I have about 30 mil.

lol i'm the same. have a savage account i should just pass onto someone. shame to see it wasted, but i ain't gona play it again

The Gnome

Will I see any characters from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic?

Given that it is approximately 300 years since the events of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, many of the characters have passed away. However, their legacy does live on as many of their descendants will be part of Star Wars: The Old Republic. Some droids can last a long time as well.

HK-47? I hope so.

AL][EN

evil-monkey wrote: »

looking forward to this game. any idea of a release date??

i had a look on line there is no official word yet on a release date or even a date for beta testing yet. And there wont be for quite some time. I don't expect this to be released for a couple of years at least but i can't wait.

I never played SWG's. I tried the free trial of it about 3 months ago and didnt like it at all, so here's hoping an awesome release.

I'd say my WoW days just might be numbered. we'll have to see how good they make this game.

Venom

Deleted User wrote: »

Here are the first pictures ...........................

http://pc.ign.com/objects/816/816935.html


Im really looking forward to it . Galaxies is just stale . I have a level 90 Jedi on that. I must go back on and give people my money . I have about 30 mil.

30 mil in SWG really aint that much money these days what with certain collection parts going for 200-300 mil easly

evil-monkey

Venom wrote: »

30 mil in SWG really aint that much money these days what with certain collection parts going for 200-300 mil easly

yup yup. proper set of stated clothing set ya back about 200mil