Teens falling pregnant to get council housing

debby08

y stop using text speak

jon1981

debby08 wrote: »

jon1981 the way u sayin they all getin preggers to get houses in naas,it gng on everywer ,teen mums.

lol your crazy...yes i said it happens but i never said that ever teen mum out there is a teen mum for that very reason. im just saying it happens

is_that_so

Agamemnon wrote: »

I doubt if it's 80% but there's a lot of it going on. My friend's partner is "officially" a single mother even though he lives with her. One time, they were living in a nice apartment and the welfare office (or whatever they're called) sent someone around to check that she really was a single parent. My friend was in the house at the time and he climbed out the balcony window and ran off before he could be seen.

AFAIK they have changed the rules on that as you had partners "running out the back door" when Welfare arrived to check on the single mother and in practice it was impossible to police.

gogglebok

jon1981 wrote: »

ok fair enough there is no paper based evidence or recorded evidence just peoples experiences, but i do you ever see this being looked into, maybe the politician that made that statement will now pursue this to back up his statement ..who knows. but the problem is there and its just being ignored.

People's experience is evidence. No-one has produced that either. An anonymous nurse being reported to have said someone about a third person? Come on, you can't really give that any credence.

Did you mention that you had personal experience of it? Is it anything you can talk about?

Dudess

debby08 wrote: »

y stop using text speak

Have a read of this forum's charter and the charters of others. It's against the rules, and over-use of it will result in a banning.

jon1981

seamus wrote: »

But how can you do anything about it?

"Hey you, you got pregnant just to get a gaff didn't ye?"

"Yeah, but now I've got the kid, what are you going to do?"

Aside from educating people and dropping social welfare rates, you can't really say that girl X is less entitled to council housing than girl Y because girl X got pregnant on purpose.

well this is it, how can you obtain evidence on this matter. they way i dont like the argument "wheres the evidence". who is going to be silly enough to admit it.

jon1981

gogglebok wrote: »

People's experience is evidence. No-one has produced that either. An anonymous nurse being reported to have said someone about a third person? Come on, you can't really give that any credence.

Did you mention that you had personal experience of it? Is it anything you can talk about?

i have heard it first hand from two girls and it was no surprise the friends of these girls went down the same road, i just dont see it as a coincidence that groups of girls all friends end up in the same situation. it is about education, they need to be educated into seeing that there is more to life than having a baby and to living off state welfare.
But to be fair where i grew up was hardly considered as a nice area, so in some teens minds getting pregnant and a house/flat is probably as good as it gets as there werent many role models around!

gogglebok

jon1981 wrote: »

well this is it, how can you obtain evidence on this matter. they way i dont like the argument "wheres the evidence". who is going to be silly enough to admit it.

If you can't produce evidence, you can't base an argument on it. End of story.

What would the consequences of admitting it be, anyway? Would they be evicted?

jon1981

gogglebok wrote: »

If you can't produce evidence, you can't base an argument on it. End of story.

What would the consequences of admitting it be, anyway? Would they be evicted?

so we just accept it as a part of the system that can be abused, obviously i wouldnt want them evicted. But the option needs to be made less attractive

spank_inferno

Its very hard to gain concrete evidence.
How can one measure somesones motivations for becoming a parent?

None the less even if it isnt possible to get exact statistics on it, the problem shouldnt be dismissed.
(I mean we all take global warming as fact and where is the evidence that it exists)

gogglebok

jon1981 wrote: »

i have heard it first hand from two girls and it was no surprise the friends of these girls went down the same road, i just dont see it as a coincidence that groups of girls all friends end up in the same situation. it is about education, they need to be educated into seeing that there is more to life than having a baby and to living off state welfare.
But to be fair where i grew up was hardly considered as a nice area, so in some teens minds getting pregnant and a house/flat is probably as good as it gets as there werent many role models around!

I have a lot of sympathy with you on this. If kids are growing up in such a lousy situation that getting pregnant seems like the only way out, that's a tragedy.

The most regrettable thing about the Fine Gael guy's comments was that they seemed to be aimed at the women in this dire situation, with no plan at all for alleviating their plight. Kicking the victim is cheap and wrong.

Ghost Train

is this why you see girls wearing their pyjamas out in public

There are 269 people on the social housing list in Naas, and 118 are single parents, said Cllr Scully

would be interesting to know what the firgure would be just for females

seamus

You mean that one in every 1,700 people in Nass is on the housing list AND is single!?

Yeah that's totally worthy of media attention.

You Suck!

"I think he's out of touch with reality. To say that people go through nine months of pregnancy and the trauma of labour to get a house is ridiculous.

I haven't had quite such a derisive laugh in a while!

Let's see........Average house price 280,000 eurons
Gdp per capita wage......28,398.03

so......lets assume 35% for mortgage repayments = 10'000 a year approx
With out factoring interest rates or being pedantic about it, thats approx 28 years!

9 FÚCKIN MONTHS!
9 FÚCKIN MONTHS!
And the trauma of labor!

Isn't worth spending 28 years workin your hole off?!?

Yer wan's outta touch with economics if ya ask me bud!
Those 18 year old skanks have a better understanding of economics then most! :eek:

Its to the central bank we should be sending them, might chase the emos out an all.

useful_contacts

cance wrote: »

serious note aside, Giggity.

*sniggers*

Calibos

Any time there is a thread about single mothers, dole, sponging, free houses etc etc

You get a rake of girls posting, "How dare, you I am a single mother and work my ass off", or "How dare you, I am a single mother and the economics of childcare, starting on a low wage till I progress in chosen career, losing the welfare payments, mean I can't afford to go out to work" etc etc

How many times can it be said? We are not talking about the majority of single mothers who are caught in the welfare trap. We are not talking about the single mothers who work. We are not lumping you all in together with the sponging single mothers. But the fact that you pop into these threads with righteous indignation always seems to stop sensible debate on the actual sponging single mother problem. They are not in the majority but are definately a significant minority and anyone who can't see that is a PC gobsh1te with their head in the sand.

As the above poster mentioned. 9 months -v- 28 years of hard graft......
And other posters said 9 months and labor for a box in a ****hole council estate (As opposed to decent C.E.) Yes 9 months and labor for a box in a ****hole. You might not get preggers only to get a house in an estate like that but the type of girls who have a baby for a house were in all likelyhood brought up in an estate just like it. Its normal to them.

No, the majority of girls of the general populace don't do this. But I'll wager the majority of girls from a certain socio-economic background do!

gogglebok

Calibos wrote: »

They are not in the majority but are definately a significant minority and anyone who can't see that is a PC gobsh1te with their head in the sand.

The thing is, Calibos, when you use the term "significant minority" you are making a statistical claim, and you are not backing it up with a gnat's foreskin worth of evidence. That makes your argument pretty feeble, and spraying "anyone who disgrees is a gob****e" around it won't save it.

Do you have figures for this significant minority? Even a rough percentage will do. Just to prevent the impression that you're throwing words down at random to satisfy a weird thirst for outrage.

Calibos wrote: »

No, the majority of girls of the general populace don't do this. But I'll wager the majority of girls from a certain socio-economic background do!

More than half the girls from a certain socio-economic class (why not name it?) get pregnant to get houses. Really?

Peared

I dunno where this 'instant council house' myth comes form but these girls can be waiting 5 years for a house. And if and when they do get them a lot of them are awful.

Of all the reasons young girls get pregnant I would say 'getting a house' is bottom of the list.

Also people, for every mother theres a father, let us not forget that. Maybe they should get off their arses and provide a house.

Toto Wolfcastle

Peared wrote: »

Of all the reasons young girls get pregnant I would say 'getting a house' is bottom of the list.

You forget that some people are stupid and might believe that they'll get a house by getting pregnant.

Peared

janeybabe wrote: »

You forget that some people are stupid and might believe that they'll get a house by getting pregnant.

No, I know that some people do this.

I still think it's way down the list of reasons though.

Dudess

Peared, it is possible to get a council house/flat very quickly... but you can be sure it's gonna be a sh1thole of the highest order - somewhere you wouldn't put a dog, and you might consider it adequate for a family of rats.

Abi

This subject has been brushed on quite a few times on here. Some people throw out their take from what they see, some from people they might know about family or friends, and some in the situation themselves where they have had to apply for housing.

There seems to be a certain snobbery against social housing, which is in fact the true reason why threads like this seem to keep rearing their ugly heads.

Not every applicant for social housing are from spotty under-educated teenage mothers, who couldn't wait to drop knickers on the promise of a house - but there are some people in genuine need.

Most people here might at least know one person who has had to apply, I know I know of a few - and its not as cut and dry as you'd think. Its for that same reason, I know that the lists aren't five years long either. I've heard 10-15 is more accurate. Doesn't seem like a fantastic shot at cornering the housing market to me.

Rb

So, is it time we started forcefully sterilizing people?

stevelknievel

To be fair Goggle, I think you have your eyes closed on this one. And besides, it's not just the house. They'll get child benefit, single mother benefits and all sorts like. If you're looking for evidence, there's plenty of eye-witness reports and people's experience. Friend of mine, about 3 years ago, was going out with a girl who persuaded him to have sex with her without protection. She said it was a safe time of the month and all that. Him being young and foolish went for it. As soon as she found she was pregnant, she dumped him. He didn't want to leave his kid, so she got her da and 2 brothers to threaten him. Saw her a couple of weeks ago. 2 kids and a 3rd on the way. 3 different fathers. 1 kid might not get you a house too soon, but 3 or 4? And it's not just in Naas. Every town and city in Ireland is the same. My big concern is what state will the country be in when these "front door keys" grow up?

gamer

you need 2 kids to get a house ,i know woman went to council, on housing list 5 years ,was simply told ,HAVE another kid and you,ll get a house,but with 1kid they get given a house on a private estate ,rent allowance ,90percent of bills paid ,so they are in no hurry to get a council house .LIFE is not fair anyway ,there will always be some people who,ll work the system,the thing that annoys me is so called single mothers who are not SINGLE ,they are in steady relationships with working men,but when its time to fill in a form they claim every cent they can .its a complex situation ,theres plenty of single parents out there ,who are stuck ,its not financially worth thier while to work ,cos they ,ll have to pay tax,childcare costs
extra rent etc.With most council houses being sold to tenants , i don,t know where future single mothers will go,in ten years time.

bunny shooter

I lived in UK in late 80's and early 90's, this was rife there then. Young ones leave school get preganant and get one parent allowance, house or flat, money to furnish it etc and set up. Didn't need to work etc. Then in middle of 90's powers that be copped on and put 'em in hostels and it seemed to stop a lot of it.

Warning signs are here now. Time to stop it before it gets out of hand.

Maybe Magdalene laundries type setup is needed again

marti101

In my area women do get pregnant ,go on the waiting list for years get a crappy flat,wait another few years for a house.It doesnt work that you get pregnant and suddenly you are in a 4 bedroomed house.They take all sorts in to consideration how many bedrooms you have now how many living in the house, the health of the people living in the house.When i went on the list i was living in my mothers house,she had severe heart problems and a brother who was mentally retarded and i was told id be years waiting on a house.There is a point system and some people could take anything others wait for years for the area they want.And bills 90% paid thats bull****,you pay your bills like everybody else.Also they dont tell you how people look down their noses at you and the the officers who come out and ask you them awful qs.I swore id never go back on lone parets .It just annoys me theirs all this false information.

sullivk

It does seem to be going on alot as far as I have seen. I had a baby at 15, I'm single, now 21, living with my parents and I still haven't put my name on the council housing list. When I tell other single mothers this they seem completely shocked. I tell them that I actually want to buy my own home and so I have applied for affordable housing.

When I said this, one girl in particular told me she would never buy her own house because "if something needs fixing I just call the council out and they do it, why pay for it when I can get it for free!". :eek:

It's this kind of attitude to life that gives all young single mothers a bad name!
Just my 2 cents

kieranfitz

I handed my forms into the council and was baisicly laughed at. Single male, with a job (even if it is dunnes), and no kids.

StormWarrior

pvt.joker wrote: »

Plenty of high horses around here alright to be climbed upon.

The thing is even though if they can prove this is going on (which they cant) , can they do anything about it? They ll still give them the houses ?!

In Holland, single mothers do not get council houses if they are under the age of 21. Strangely enough, they have few teenage pregnancies there.

sickpuppy32

you dont get a much better reaction when ur a single male with kids either. A lot of seperated dads when they go to court to get access to their kids are told by the judge that they must have a house to bring them that has seperate rooms for the kids, very hard to do that "privately " when ur paying the mortgage on the "family" home and child support and maintenace. Ur lucky if u can afford a bedsit or caravan

Dudess

StormWarrior wrote: »

In Holland, single mothers do not get council houses if they are under the age of 21. Strangely enough, they have few teenage pregnancies there.

That doesn't surprise me at all - liberal societies also seem to have a culture of a mature, responsible attitude when it comes to sex.
And in the Bible Belt where sex is such a sin, underage pregnancies and STDs are a serious problem.

pow wow

For some young girls getting pregnant is as viable a 'career' choice as anything else.

Kernel

ellscurr wrote: »

For some young girls getting pregnant is as viable a 'career' choice as anything else.

It's time to cut these parasites loose. I'm appalled by the amount of taxpayer money that gets leeched by irresponsible non-contributing members of society in this country. With the government harping on about cutting back money to public sector bodies, and taxing homeowners, I'd rather see them tightening up our liberal social welfare system.

kowloon

On the other hand, it could be argued that these girls are embarking on what is ultimately the most important human endeavour, procreation.
Are the childless building blocks of society, the wage slaves of a service sector, surplus to requirements, really qualified to pass judgement?

*sits back and stirs :pac:*

mumhaabu

Fair play to this Councillor, It would take Fine Gael to have a bit of balls of a topic on this as they are the only mainstream party with a bit of conservatism and right wing ethics left, pity the loss of the Progressive Democrats *shakes fist*.

As another poster said the economics are simple, and Ireland is now in recession, these pathetic girls are only milking a system which needs to be badly overhauled.

As a person who grew up privileged in life and got a good education, you'd expect me to take a liberal pc stand of this however I will not as I fought tooth and claw for my success and so far my life is good. I pay 40% of my income in Tax and paid nealry €100,000 in taxes in 2007 through various methods. I feel it is a disgrace that in Ireland we have such high taxation and that so much is wasted on Social Welfare.

We need to address these issues and several changes need to be implemented. The state should not be a charity and we are a welfare state and people won't wake up and accept it.

Social Welfare needs to be curtailed in a phased in manner removing the dole completely and giving each individual a 6 months entitlement to benefits in their life, with the freedom for the individual to make voluntary payments and "put up stamps" for the day when they might be needed. PRSI should be phased out making it voluntary not mandatory.

A maximum payment of €100/per week would suffice.

Abolish the Public Healthcare system, sell all the large hospitals and introduce competition in the newly formed Private Health Care system. The working class will then be free to choose their health care provider and will have the finances to do it with the tax burden removed. Unemployed and people without health insurance can avail of health care on the basis of how many "stamp credits".

All forms of Social, Public Authority and Affordable Housing should be abolished. Mass privatizations of Public Housing should be completed to a Private Corporation at full market value, they new company can run it as they see fit at Market rates. The market will determine it and the freeing up of this asset will allow for Billions to be invested in more important infrastructure like Motorways and bringing our roads and transport up to scratch also some of the money could be used to assist the newly privatised Healthcare system.

As a fan of Private Industry I believe Ireland's entrepreneurial spirit can solve these problems better than any petty politics where the constant political meddling and short-sightedness has destroyed these things.

Mass Privatisation of the education system would enable the countries children to get a proper and decent education, I favour Education vouchers, whereby the Government substitutes what it spends on each child with a payment to a private school or university.

This will remove some of the burden of the cost of Education but more importantly it will allow for private education to flourish and keep our children free from the delinquency that occurs in public schools where our children must mix with the lower orders in some sort of communist paradise. I'd prefer my children go private than mix with Dutch Gold swilling scumbags off a Council Estate. Social Welfare is the cause of much of society's problems, and causes more problems than it solves, "each to their own and each to their abilities is a fair analysis.

All single mothers allowances, Rent Allowance, Childrens Allowances, deserted mothers and single mothers supplements must be cut. Childrens Allowance can be substituted with a government backed saving bond which can only be used to pay for Education.

This would eliminate the occurance of single mothers queueing in post offices with a pram an innocent child invariabley in a stinking diaper wherby they get out a nice boodle from the state and proceed to spend it on things like McDonalds for young Charley Britney (the most substantial meal they might get) on on other household luxuries like 20 Benson & Hedges subjecting kids to passive smoking and things like Addidas Tracksuits and other waste. Children are not born criminals, alchoholics or drug addicts they are molded into them by their parents and their associated peers.

Cut Social Welfare, lower taxes, end the welfare state and move towards individualism and personal liberty.

These are my views and thank you for reading them, Don't be afraid to agree I call a spade a spade and no Liberals or PC brigade would ever tell me otherwise. If only Michael O'Leary became a Politician instead of Airlines. We need an Irish Thatcher to sort this place out and if only Fine Gael and the PD's could get into government between them *drools*.

kowloon

mumhaabu wrote: »

This will remove some of the burden of the cost of Education but more importantly it will allow for private education to flourish and keep our children free from the delinquency that occurs in public schools where our children must mix with the lower orders in some sort of communist paradise. I'd prefer my children go private than mix with Dutch Gold swilling scumbags off a Council Estate.

Quite the rant there, but the above in bold is my favorite part.

taidghbaby

mumhaabu why stop there!

get yourself a shotgun and start getting rid of the lower classes!

start with the homeless, then the junkies (addicts for the pc brigade), then people on social welfare, and then single mothers!
after that any other part of society that gets on your nerves!!

Chips Lovell

mumhaabu wrote: »

This will remove some of the burden of the cost of Education but more importantly it will allow for private education to flourish and keep our children free from the delinquency that occurs in public schools where our children must mix with the lower orders in some sort of communist paradise. I'd prefer my children go private than mix with Dutch Gold swilling scumbags off a Council Estate. Social Welfare is the cause of much of society's problems, and causes more problems than it solves, "each to their own and each to their abilities is a fair analysis.

Troll.

Yazacoo

mumhaabu wrote: »

As a person who grew up privileged in life and got a good education,

Abolish the Public Healthcare system, sell all the large hospitals and introduce competition in the newly formed Private Health Care system. The working class will then be free to choose their health care provider and will have the finances to do it with the tax burden removed. Unemployed and people without health insurance can avail of health care on the basis of how many "stamp credits".

First of all speaking as someone who has grown up with the healthcare system constantly on discussion, one of the major problems with the system is the amount of bureaucracy the staff have to deal with. If the system was completely privatised with this stamp system in place the vast amount of paper work that would go with it would be such a ridiculous task.

And its quite alright that you grew up with the ability to constantly pay for your healthcare, but not everyone can do that. Senior citizens struggle to pay heating bills and with crashing pension schemes how could they manage with a private health care system? Some very hardworking men and women would be outcasted- even with your lower taxes.

Health is essential to a populace and workforce. A private health system would only benifit those who could pay for it- not thoose who need it. We would end up with a situation like America, where you can have the best treatment in the world but if you don't have health insurance you can die of diahorea for all they care (And you'd be suprized by the number of people who die of such easily curable disseases in the states).
Our healthcare system is not working we need a new one but privatization would not work.

I agree that at times our social welfare system is a joke but what you are suggesting is ludicrous. We would become such an affluent state (more so) but speaking environmentally thats exactly what we don't need.

Your lucky that your worked and suceeded but not everyone does. Elitisim is the basis of so many problems in the US. What the government should do is listen to the scholars and experts who have studied these topics for years, instead of tearing up reports because "it doesn't feel right"

Havermeyer

I am 100% sure that this happens, albeit among a minority, but it happens all the same. The girls in question are generally idiotic, bone idle idiots who are looking for, what they believe to be, the easy way to the top of the housing list. Typically they are the same women that wear their pyjamas on public transport and to the social welfare office. Education is not enough for these types of people. A much more strong handed approach is needed.

Overheal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE9llClgTqY

and no, there is no such thing as a council house in the united states :rolleyes:

gamer

WELL the government could make changes, ie every secondary school must have a proper program of sex education with full info on contraception ,bring in outside experts ,your 50year old geography teacher is probably not the best person to teach sex ed .Schools who don,t teach it will get a ten percent cut in grant aid, make it a core subject like maths, some teens get pregnant cos they know nothing about contraception.

Kernel

gamer wrote: »

WELL the government could make changes, ie every secondary school must have a proper program of sex education with full info on contraception ,bring in outside experts ,your 50year old geography teacher is probably not the best person to teach sex ed .Schools who don,t teach it will get a ten percent cut in grant aid, make it a core subject like maths, some teens get pregnant cos they know nothing about contraception.

I'd say that's a little naieve. Many of these girls are deliberately having babies because they want a nice life-like doll to play with, and the extra money for sitting around in their PJs all day.

rainbow kirby

Overheal wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE9llClgTqY

and no, there is no such thing as a council house in the united states :rolleyes:

That kid needs a slap.

Piste

"It's my hot body- I'll do what I want!"

Havermeyer

rainbow kirby wrote: »

That kid needs a slap.

That kid needs to be put down; and I don't mean a damaging comment.

Terry

Calibos wrote: »

Any time there is a thread about single mothers, dole, sponging, free houses etc etc

You get a rake of girls posting, "How dare, you I am a single mother and work my ass off", or "How dare you, I am a single mother and the economics of childcare, starting on a low wage till I progress in chosen career, losing the welfare payments, mean I can't afford to go out to work" etc etc

How many times can it be said? We are not talking about the majority of single mothers who are caught in the welfare trap. We are not talking about the single mothers who work. We are not lumping you all in together with the sponging single mothers. But the fact that you pop into these threads with righteous indignation always seems to stop sensible debate on the actual sponging single mother problem. They are not in the majority but are definately a significant minority and anyone who can't see that is a PC gobsh1te with their head in the sand.

As the above poster mentioned. 9 months -v- 28 years of hard graft......
And other posters said 9 months and labor for a box in a ****hole council estate (As opposed to decent C.E.) Yes 9 months and labor for a box in a ****hole. You might not get preggers only to get a house in an estate like that but the type of girls who have a baby for a house were in all likelyhood brought up in an estate just like it. Its normal to them.

No, the majority of girls of the general populace don't do this. But I'll wager the majority of girls from a certain socio-economic background do!

I'll see that bet and raise you a 'everyone who lives in Bray is a knacker'.
Generalisations are fun.

StormWarrior wrote: »

In Holland, single mothers do not get council houses if they are under the age of 21. Strangely enough, they have few teenage pregnancies there.

They don't get council houses in Eritrea either.

Nailz

Why don't they just work!! Get a decent house!! I fùcking hate counsil houses!!! :mad:

Terry

Nailz wrote: »

Why don't they just work!! Get a decent house!! I fùcking hate counsil houses!!! :mad:

Why do you hate counsil (sic) houses?