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Dave Mooney
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I think people over emphaise the Longford thing from last season too much. He went on a great run in the second half of the season, when Longford would have been one of the top teams in the league from then on points wise. The point that he was scoring for a struggling side is incorrect.Finishing top scorer in the league playing for easily relegated Longford last season was some achievement, most thought it was a one off but hes flying again this seasonEinstürzende wrote: »How much more 'football' can you get than having a keeper who's their joint second top scorer?
Around 7 or 8 players have scored more than him. 0 -
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DmanDmythDledge wrote: » Around 7 or 8 players have scored more than him.
Oh right! MNS said he was your second top scorer, perhaps jokingly, and I had a good laugh at nobody except one player scoring more than one in 19 games or whatever.
Still. Total football. Scoring keepers ftw!
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Ahahahaha. Struggle at League 2 level. Yet Irish results in Europe haven't indicated struggling among most of their European counterparts. Or are the Croatian, Finnish, Estonian and Latvian leagues all bottom of League 2 level too? Some people need to think before they post. That post was just laughable.
Apologies for the lack of content in my reply. I will elaborate...
1) You cite leagues such as Croatia, Finland, Latvia. Barring maybe the top teams in Croatia, yes the teams in those leagues would struggle in the Premiership, would struggle in the Championship. Of the countries you suggest I would imagine most would agree that Hajduk Split are probably the biggest of the clubs in those nations. Their greatest claim to international fame is reaching the quarter final of the champions league, most recently as far back as 1995 (see wiki). They are by no means a force in Europe. I would also contend that probably the top 8 teams in the premier league could equal if not better that performance (eg, Leeds, Newcastle having equalled or bettered since 1995), so I would contend that Hajduk Split would be, at best, a weak Premiership team fighting against relegation. Other countries you mentioned havent produced a club with continuing european success so Hajduk are the best I can think of and they routinely win trophies in those leagues, so logic would, in my opinion, suggest that the teams they play week in week out would not compete well at a level or two below the premiership. Do you think there is any merit to that line of thought? As for UEFA cup teams produced by these other countries, they are, if we're generous to the EL, a little better and even then they are just making up the numbers. Clubs from all the countries mentioned dont have the player base, the fan base, the financial turnover, of even weak championship teams. If a team like, for example Cardiff, try to buy a good player from latvia or wherever a move to the championship would be considered a big move. This is one of the reasons we see players from latvia, bulgaria, finland moving to the championship, and practically zero moving in the opposite direction. Take Finland as an example, their national side is comprised of their best players, players like Peter Enklemen (cardiff), tony kallio (fulham), shefki kuqi (ipswich/blackburn)...the latvia squad Kasper Gorkss (blackpool)... Estonia with Mart Poom (watford)... the rest of their national teams are made of up players from their home leagues and they can compete with Ireland, whos national squad is made up of players from the premiership. The best players move from these countries to teams like fulham/spurs/boro-blackpool/watford/forest.. our best players play premiership, our worse players stay home. their best players play championship, league one... their worse players stay home. A long way to saying that Irish players who dont play premiership football or top tier championship football stay home. The elite EL players, in this case Mooney, would look to graduate to a team in the middle tier like the championship, like Kevin Doyle, who progressed to the premiership with his championship club, and lets not forget they got relegated and doyle was close to rubbish last year in an impotent team. So, the pool of players we have in the EL would, if they were the elite, look to graduate to mid-upper tier championship, much like finland or latvia, or whereever. in terms of european football we are just making up the numbers, our results and by our i mean ireland, finland, etc, our results show that. We are the minnows in these events. Yes we produce the odd robbie or roy keane, they produce the odd eidur gudjohnson and sami hyppia, but by and large our domestic leagues cannot compete. Our best players barely scrape the lower end of the prem, mid-upper championship (eg Doyle, Hunt, etc) but our average players, much like finland, latvia, play for teams like blackpool if they are amongst the better players, like Mooney. A move for mooney to blackpool would be a step in the right direction for him, a step into the shop window for a team like WBA or Sunderland. Which, in my opinion, shows that your run of the mill mid table Irish, Latvian, Finnish club would struggle to beat a league 1 leeds team and would probably struggle to get out of league 1. WHich brings me to my next point...
2) What happened when with Carlisle and Roddy Collins signing players from Shels, then dominant EL players? They struggled in League 2. ROddy signed (based on a quick google search) the following players from the EL: Brian Shelley from Bohs, Darren Kelly from Derry, Will McDOnnagh from Bohs, Richie Foran from shells... players from bohs and shels, in 2001... doing well in the EL? struggled in league 2???
Also, I cant find a link for this but perhaps some of the older EL fans might remember a friendly at Richmond Park between an Eircom League select and a COnference Select, it was back when Brian Kerr was managing Pats (and they won the league!
). The conference side won either 4-1 or 4-0. I cant find a link to anything about it so might make this easier to dismiss. I know friendly games are relatively meaningless, but it is not a something to boast about.
Take Eamon Zayed, one of Drogheda's better players and in the better half of players in the EL? Agree? TO my knowledge he had a spell at Leicester City, now a League 1 side. As far as I know he was there for a year or more, never playing for the first team of a championship side, and is now a first choice striker at the EL champions. Where would you reckon he'd fit if he played in England now? Leicester in league 1? Burnley in championship? Grimbsy in league 2? I'd argue that Grimsby MIGHT take him, would they play him?? And they are a very mediocre league 2 team, yet he is one of the better EL players??
I'm involved in alot of amateur football in Ireland, I've played against and watched youth teams from Shels, Bohs, Glasgow Celtic, Glasgow Rangers, Malmo, IFK, Bristol City, Bristol Rovers, Blackburn, Huddersfield... the teams shels and bohs had out on a technical level couldnt touch the others. (by the by, celtic and rangers youth teams are just class!!!) The EL league just is not good enough. We cant compete, and we wont until there is a way of keeping our talented youth in the country rather than wasting away in youth teams at clubs like city or boro. If we produce a good player with potential, like Doyle or now Mooney, they will end up at a career peak with at best a poor premiership team. Doyle is now at a good championship team. Mooney, the latest gem from the EL, would be doing VERY VERY well for himself to get near a club like Reading. The players Mooney beats week in week out, the majority of EL players and therefore the majority of EL teams, would struggle in League 1 and League 2.Which is a pathetic and laughable point. I've made numerous points back which you've just ignored because theres no answers to them. The Eircom Premier is way above that.
i hope i have at least given some food for thought. Please don't dismiss it out of hand.0 -
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Apologies for the lack of content in my reply. I will elaborate...
1) You cite leagues such as Croatia, Finland, Latvia. Barring maybe the top teams in Croatia, yes the teams in those leagues would struggle in the Premiership, would struggle in the Championship. Of the countries you suggest I would imagine most would agree that Hajduk Split are probably the biggest of the clubs in those nations. Their greatest claim to international fame is reaching the quarter final of the champions league, most recently as far back as 1995 (see wiki). They are by no means a force in Europe. I would also contend that probably the top 8 teams in the premier league could equal if not better that performance (eg, Leeds, Newcastle having equalled or bettered since 1995), so I would contend that Hajduk Split would be, at best, a weak Premiership team fighting against relegation. Other countries you mentioned havent produced a club with continuing european success so Hajduk are the best I can think of and they routinely win trophies in those leagues, so logic would, in my opinion, suggest that the teams they play week in week out would not compete well at a level or two below the premiership. Do you think there is any merit to that line of thought? As for UEFA cup teams produced by these other countries, they are, if we're generous to the EL, a little better and even then they are just making up the numbers. Clubs from all the countries mentioned dont have the player base, the fan base, the financial turnover, of even weak championship teams. If a team like, for example Cardiff, try to buy a good player from latvia or wherever a move to the championship would be considered a big move. This is one of the reasons we see players from latvia, bulgaria, finland moving to the championship, and practically zero moving in the opposite direction. Take Finland as an example, their national side is comprised of their best players, players like Peter Enklemen (cardiff), tony kallio (fulham), shefki kuqi (ipswich/blackburn)...the latvia squad Kasper Gorkss (blackpool)... Estonia with Mart Poom (watford)... the rest of their national teams are made of up players from their home leagues and they can compete with Ireland, whos national squad is made up of players from the premiership. The best players move from these countries to teams like fulham/spurs/boro-blackpool/watford/forest.. our best players play premiership, our worse players stay home. their best players play championship, league one... their worse players stay home. A long way to saying that Irish players who dont play premiership football or top tier championship football stay home. The elite EL players, in this case Mooney, would look to graduate to a team in the middle tier like the championship, like Kevin Doyle, who progressed to the premiership with his championship club, and lets not forget they got relegated and doyle was close to rubbish last year in an impotent team. So, the pool of players we have in the EL would, if they were the elite, look to graduate to mid-upper tier championship, much like finland or latvia, or whereever. in terms of european football we are just making up the numbers, our results and by our i mean ireland, finland, etc, our results show that. We are the minnows in these events. Yes we produce the odd robbie or roy keane, they produce the odd eidur gudjohnson and sami hyppia, but by and large our domestic leagues cannot compete. Our best players barely scrape the lower end of the prem, mid-upper championship (eg Doyle, Hunt, etc) but our average players, much like finland, latvia, play for teams like blackpool if they are amongst the better players, like Mooney. A move for mooney to blackpool would be a step in the right direction for him, a step into the shop window for a team like WBA or Sunderland. Which, in my opinion, shows that your run of the mill mid table Irish, Latvian, Finnish club would struggle to beat a league 1 leeds team and would probably struggle to get out of league 1. WHich brings me to my next point...
2) What happened when with Carlisle and Roddy Collins signing players from Shels, then dominant EL players? They struggled in League 2. ROddy signed (based on a quick google search) the following players from the EL: Brian Shelley from Bohs, Darren Kelly from Derry, Will McDOnnagh from Bohs, Richie Foran from shells... players from bohs and shels, in 2001... doing well in the EL? struggled in league 2???
Also, I cant find a link for this but perhaps some of the older EL fans might remember a friendly at Richmond Park between an Eircom League select and a COnference Select, it was back when Brian Kerr was managing Pats (and they won the league!). The conference side won either 4-1 or 4-0. I cant find a link to anything about it so might make this easier to dismiss. I know friendly games are relatively meaningless, but it is not a something to boast about.
Take Eamon Zayed, one of Drogheda's better players and in the better half of players in the EL? Agree? TO my knowledge he had a spell at Leicester City, now a League 1 side. As far as I know he was there for a year or more, never playing for the first team of a championship side, and is now a first choice striker at the EL champions. Where would you reckon he'd fit if he played in England now? Leicester in league 1? Burnley in championship? Grimbsy in league 2? I'd argue that Grimsby MIGHT take him, would they play him?? And they are a very mediocre league 2 team, yet he is one of the better EL players??
I'm involved in alot of amateur football in Ireland, I've played against and watched youth teams from Shels, Bohs, Glasgow Celtic, Glasgow Rangers, Malmo, IFK, Bristol City, Bristol Rovers, Blackburn, Huddersfield... the teams shels and bohs had out on a technical level couldnt touch the others. (by the by, celtic and rangers youth teams are just class!!!) The EL league just is not good enough. We cant compete, and we wont until there is a way of keeping our talented youth in the country rather than wasting away in youth teams at clubs like city or boro. If we produce a good player with potential, like Doyle or now Mooney, they will end up at a career peak with at best a poor premiership team. Doyle is now at a good championship team. Mooney, the latest gem from the EL, would be doing VERY VERY well for himself to get near a club like Reading. The players Mooney beats week in week out, the majority of EL players and therefore the majority of EL teams, would struggle in League 1 and League 2.
i hope i have at least given some food for thought. Please don't dismiss it out of hand.
I am dismissing it out of hand. Theres so many incorrect facts there its unreal. Especially since Hadjuk Split actually were the side that were comfortably dispatched. But if the fact that you've played youth football makes you feel you know it all about Irish football, then carry on.0 -
ditpoker wrote:Also, I cant find a link for this but perhaps some of the older EL fans might remember a friendly at Richmond Park between an Eircom League select and a COnference Select, it was back when Brian Kerr was managing Pats
If I am not mistaken, Kerr managed SPA in the early 1990s, so If that is your frame of reference, it is hopelessly dated.
Re Roddy Collins? The guy is a mug. Please do not hold him up as an example. He just signed everyone he ever heard of.
And the first paragraph gives me a headache just looking at it, so you may have some points in there, but I'm not reading it
The fact is, the domestic league here is a completely different league in 2008 than what it was in 1988, and even 1998. It is a different league than what it was in 2001. It was only really in 2002, when the change to a summer season came about that things started looking good. Since then, there has been more success in Europe than what there ever was before (put together in 30 + years I would hazard a guess). There is a better, more professional quality of player around, training methods have improved, and quite importantly, youngsters don't feel the need to have to go abroad at 15 in order to make it. They see that they can hang around here until they are 18/19 and still get spotted by a foreign higher level club.
Things have changed quality wise, by huge margins. That is a fact.
Anyway, Dave Mooney. Grand player isn't he?0 -
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