Onkyo 606, Mordaunt Speakers... what cables?

L31mr0d

Ok I made a school boy error. I recently bought an Onkyo 606 AV Receiver and Mordaunt Short Avant Premiere Speaker package only to open them all up and realise there is absolutely no included cables.

I think i'll be ok connecting up all my peripherals to the Onkyo 606 but its connecting up my speakers to the receiver that i'm wondering about.

What cable should I get from this page?

http://www.richersounds.ie/asp/categorydetail.asp?ObjectID=938&Mode=0&CategoryID=5&sub=81

The manual for the speakers recommend "16 gauge or higher". Which of the speaker cables would fit this criteria?

Also the Onkyo 606 doesn't take in scart, but my chorus digi box only outputs scart, is it possible to convert scart to component video?

They have this cable on richersounds.ie, but I don't understand why it converts to 6-phono connections when component video only requires 3? Could anyone explain this?

http://www.richersounds.ie/asp/product.asp?ObjectID=938&Mode=0&CategoryID=2&sub=19&productid=60

Also, i'll be connecting up my PC to the 606. Can I just use 3 jack-to-2 phono adapters to connect to the 606?

Finally, the Onkyo 606 has one phone connector out for the sub but on the back of my sub the input is 2 phono connectors (i.e. red and white) How should I connect up the sub to the Onkyo 606?

All help appreciated, I'll rep+ accordingly.

Slaphead07

For speaker cables nip out to Cloney and get either Nordost flatline or superflatline. They are fairly priced and you'll never have to buy speaker cable again. Depending on how much you need it might be as well to buy a roll of the stuff. They are not super-duper-fancy high-end cables but they do home cinema just fine.
Other than that get 79 strand cable from Maplins - it's not that much cheaper so the Nordost would be a better choice.

Slaphead07

L31mr0d wrote: »

They have this cable on richersounds.ie, but I don't understand why it converts to 6-phono connections when component video only requires 3? Could anyone explain this?

That doesn't deliver a component signal... you're right when you say componant would be just 3. I know Peats have them.

L31mr0d wrote: »

Finally, the Onkyo 606 has one phone connector out for the sub but on the back of my sub the input is 2 phono connectors (i.e. red and white) How should I connect up the sub to the Onkyo 606?

As a sub is mono you don't need left and right. Connect to just one. I'm not 100% sure why the sub would have two inputs (my REL is the same) but perhaps it's to allow a signal out to another sub if you wanted to run two. Probably not.

L31mr0d

so when connecting the sub to the 606 do I just use a 1-to-1 phone connector? Which do I connect it to? The red (L) phono input or the white (R) phono input?

The Ritz

Read the manual for the Sub - it should tell you which one (ie. red or white) to connect.

As for speaker wire, 79 strand from Maplins will do fine, the Gale 200 on Richersounds will also do fine.


MOD WARNING:

If there is a hint of this thread descending into a flame war about the merits/otherwise of cheap/expensive speaker wire, cable etc. immediate bans will be handed out.


Ritz.

L31mr0d

The Ritz wrote: »

Read the manual for the Sub - it should tell you which one (ie. red or white) to connect.

As for speaker wire, 79 strand from Maplins will do fine, the Gale 200 on Richersounds will also do fine.

Ritz.

here is the manual that comes with the speakers. It seems to say to connect up the front left and right speakers to it but I'd rather everything go through the AV Receiver if possible.

http://www.mordauntshort.com/assets/documents/Premiere_Manual.pdf

See page 5 of 12

Is it possible to just connect the sub to the 606 without having to connect my front left and right speakers to it also?

The Ritz

You should just connect the subwoofer "out" of the 606 to either the red or white "in" on the Sub - see number 5 Line Input on page 5 of the manual. IF it doesnt work with the white, then use the red - you won;t damage the subwoofer. Normally either the Red or the White on the sub is marked "Mono" - this doesn't seem to be the case with yours so either should do.

Definitely don't connect your front speakers to the Sub - waste of time - connect the speaker to the speaker conections on the 606.


Ritz.

L31mr0d

from reading around it seems the gauge is whats most important, I can't find any information about the gauge of the wires offered on the richersounds.ie site

What about this cable on amazon.co.uk?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/16-Gauge-Brown-2-Conductor-Speaker-100-Ft/dp/B000TLSPCU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1216736583&sr=8-3

What difference does the number of strands make? Does it simply increase the gauge of the wire having more strands?

Slaphead07

The Ritz wrote: »

MOD WARNING:

If there is a hint of this thread descending into a flame war about the merits/otherwise of cheap/expensive speaker wire, cable etc. immediate bans will be handed out.


Ritz.

You're no fun.

Slaphead07

L31mr0d wrote: »

What difference does the number of strands make? Does it simply increase the gauge of the wire having more strands?

Having spent many years dabbling with high-end hifi with many sad old gits like myself I've never spent a lot of time worrying about the "gauge" of a cable. Assuming the gauge is the thickness then, from much expierience, I'd regard 79 strand as a minimum. Not all speaker cable is stranded though..... some is solid copper core. If you have access to electrical cable, and I mean "twin & earth" not bell-wire, try that. It's cheap and delivers a nice round bass.

Slaphead07

L31mr0d wrote: »

Is it possible to just connect the sub to the 606 without having to connect my front left and right speakers to it also?

it's possible but why would you do that? If you're not connecting the speakers to the amp what are you doing with them?

The Ritz

I'm lots of fun, Fun Fun Fun......

I think

Is it possible to just connect the sub to the 606 without having to connect my front left and right speakers to it also?

..............means without having to connect the front left and right speakers to the sub..... as you might if you were routing stereo to the sub and using it to crossover the signal to L and R speakers.


Ritz.

The Ritz

Just spotted this part of your question:

Also, i'll be connecting up my PC to the 606. Can I just use 3 jack-to-2 phono adapters to connect to the 606?

The best approach is to set your soundcard to output Spdif (digital signal) and use a 3.5 plug to RCA adaptor and an RCA cable to connect the PC to the digital-in on the 606.

You can use the sound outs from the PC to connect to the multi-channel in of the 606, but you'll be relying on the PC to do your sound processing.

It's not clear if you're planning to connect a dvd player or a PS3 etc, if you are you can connect them using an optical cable. Indeed if your PC has optical out on the soundcard or motherboard, you could ude an optical cable to connect that to the 606.


Ritz.

L31mr0d

The Ritz wrote: »

The best approach is to set your soundcard to output Spdif (digital signal) and use a 3.5 plug to RCA adaptor and an RCA cable to connect the PC to the digital-in on the 606.

You can use the sound outs from the PC to connect to the multi-channel in of the 606, but you'll be relying on the PC to do your sound processing.

Do you mean one of these? I was planning on using 3 of those to connect the 5.1 audio from the PC's 3 jacks into the A/V receiver.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000Q6LSWM/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A1WVL1VDD9TDKI

How is the setup different if I choose to output via spdif? Also my onboard soundcard in my HTPC doesn't support optical.

The Ritz wrote: »

It's not clear if you're planning to connect a dvd player or a PS3 etc, if you are you can connect them using an optical cable. Indeed if your PC has optical out on the soundcard or motherboard, you could ude an optical cable to connect that to the 606.


Ritz.

Connected to the AV Receiver will be: a PS3, PC and Chorus digibox.

I'll be connecting the PS3 via HDMI to the AV receiver as I've read this allows uncompressed digital audio and the chorus box will be connected via a "SCART-to-3 RCA plugs"

The PC will be connected to the TV via HDMI and then the audio will go into the AV receiver. Any info you have in how I should set up for spdif would be appreciated. Also is there any audible benefit to connecting via spdif instead of using the 3 jacks?

Richersounds.ie: John

L31' no I think that The Ritz mean one of these http://cpc.farnell.com/AV15205/cable-wire-connectors/product.us0?sku=pro-signal-psg01657.

PS3 via HDMI is fine.

Nasty NTL/Chorus via Scart - 3 Phono is fine (but the newer NTL boxes have optical out as well I think which would be a much better option)

Spdif will be worlds apart from '3 jacks', The Ritz is not giving you a bum steer - if there is any way manner or form that you can squeeze an digi out from your PC then go for it.

Finally if you have any problem connecting it up just drop us a line and we will do our best to assist,

Thanks as ever,

John Mc

L31mr0d wrote: »

Do you mean one of these? I was planning on using 3 of those to connect the 5.1 audio from the PC's 3 jacks into the A/V receiver.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000Q6LSWM/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=A1WVL1VDD9TDKI

How is the setup different if I choose to output via spdif? Also my onboard soundcard in my HTPC doesn't support optical.



Connected to the AV Receiver will be: a PS3, PC and Chorus digibox.

I'll be connecting the PS3 via HDMI to the AV receiver as I've read this allows uncompressed digital audio and the chorus box will be connected via a "SCART-to-3 RCA plugs"

The PC will be connected to the TV via HDMI and then the audio will go into the AV receiver. Any info you have in how I should set up for spdif would be appreciated. Also is there any audible benefit to connecting via spdif instead of using the 3 jacks?

L31mr0d

Ok I got 20m of the 76 strand stuff from maplins, just about had enough for the 5 speakers.

I've wired up the speakers and sub but I have some questions now.

What is the difference between the component video that is colour coded "blue, green, red"(bgr) and the other kind "Yellow, red, white"(yrw)? I got a SCART to component cable (yrw) to connect my digibox to the 606. The 606 has inputs for both the bgr and yrw inputs. I connected it up via the yrw inputs but my TV only has SCART and bgr inputs.

I managed to get picture coming through the TV by just connecting the yellow component cable into the green component connector on the TV. Thing is the quality is lower than when I was connecting directly from the digi box into the TV via the SCART. The image just looks like it isn't being upscaled like it was previously. I've enabled upscaling on the 606 and the TV but it doesn't help.

Slaphead07

L31mr0d wrote: »

I got a SCART to component cable (yrw) to connect my digibox to the 606. The 606 has inputs for both the bgr and yrw inputs. I connected it up via the yrw inputs but my TV only has SCART and bgr inputs. .

I could be wrong here but I don't think the cable you have is scart to component... it seems to be more scart to AV - the yellow carries a very basic video signal and the other two are stereo left and right. You need Scart to RGB (red green and blue)

L31mr0d

Slaphead07 wrote: »

I could be wrong here but I don't think the cable you have is scart to component... it seems to be more scart to AV - the yellow carries a very basic video signal and the other two are stereo left and right. You need Scart to RGB (red green and blue)

you are not wrong it's horrible as I could build a PC and set it up with my eyes closed but the back of this 606 is so confusing.

What I've got is a "SCART to composite" cable, not the needed "SCART to component" . I think its the fact that everything (i.e. coax, subwoofer, composite, component) uses the same phono connections.

I'm going to ring Chorus anyway and see if they have any newer boxes that output via HDMI. At least I should be able to get one that outputs coax or optical audio.

Ok another question in regards to the subwoofer. Both the red and white phono connections produce sound through the sub. Should I assume both of them are the same?

Also there are 2 knobs on the back of it that I'd appreciate advice on. One is called "phase" and can be switched between 0' and 180'. The other is called "low frequency cut-off" and can be adjusted between 50hz and 150hz. When should I be changing the positions of these?

Slaphead07

I wouldn't be optimistic on Chorus having a box with HDMI but let us know.

L31mr0d wrote: »

Ok another question in regards to the subwoofer. Both the red and white phono connections produce sound through the sub. Should I assume both of them are the same?

You can assume that but I've found on some subs that one sounds slightly better than the other - I have no idea why but take the 20 seconds to check if there is any improvemnet of one over the other.

L31mr0d wrote: »

Also there are 2 knobs on the back of it that I'd appreciate advice on. One is called "phase" and can be switched between 0' and 180'. The other is called "low frequency cut-off" and can be adjusted between 50hz and 150hz. When should I be changing the positions of these?

Phase is usually the relationship between left and right channels - it shouldn't make a huge difference on a sub but Trial & Error is the only way to approach this.
Low Frequency Cut-Off is far more important in that this sets where the sub takes over from the other speakers when things go low. I've read many tutorials about this but on every sub I've had I found our old friend Trial & Error worked best. Trust your ears!
Start around a mid point on the sub and take it from there..... it can weeks of small adjustments to get the balance just right and you'll learn more from 'normal' viewing of DVDs than yiou will from a few hours of intense tweaking. Google setting up sub woofers.... there's info out there.

andy1249

Im going to upset you some more Im afraid ,

The component video type that the onkyo handles is YPbPr , not RGB , they are totally different and not compatible with each other.

So , even if you do have a Scart to component video cable , that will be Scart to RGB and not YPbPr and the Onkyo cannot handle RGB and in all likelihood neither can your TV as the most common type of component video these days is YPbPr.

For some info on the different types of component video , check here , its brief but accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

So the upshot of all this is that with only a scart output , the only video type you can feed through the onkyo is composite.

You could get an RGB to YPbPr convertor , but they are all about €120 and up , and results are variable quality at best.

The best option for the NTL box is to forget about feeding the video through the amp and connect it directly with scart , at least that way you get the RGB signal which will be better than anything you could get from the box through the Onkyo , no matter what way you connect.

L31mr0d

andy1249 wrote: »

Im going to upset you some more Im afraid

funnily enough its actually good news as I was about to take half my lunch off and head out to Harvey normans to pick up a "SCART to Component" cable. I think I will go with your suggestion and just leave the SCART going directly into the TV. The Chorus digi box has a 3.5mm jack output for audio so I might just get a "3.5mm jack to 2 phono" cable and hook it up that way if Chorus can't upgrade my digi box.

L31mr0d

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Phase is usually the relationship between left and right channels - it shouldn't make a huge difference on a sub but Trial & Error is the only way to approach this.
Low Frequency Cut-Off is far more important in that this sets where the sub takes over from the other speakers when things go low. I've read many tutorials about this but on every sub I've had I found our old friend Trial & Error worked best. Trust your ears!
Start around a mid point on the sub and take it from there..... it can weeks of small adjustments to get the balance just right and you'll learn more from 'normal' viewing of DVDs than yiou will from a few hours of intense tweaking. Google setting up sub woofers.... there's info out there.

what should I use to test the sub? Its hard to know what I should be hearing or listening for as I've never had a decent sub before. I've taken the advice and placed it mid way along the wall and I can hear the sub, but I'm just not sure what benefit I'll receive from changing the phase or low frequency cut-off. If I was to set the low frequency cut-off to 150hz what would this mean in regards to the audible sound of the sub?

eddiem74

This link might help: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/

Just also google some of your questions, and browse a few articles to ensure consistent information.

You could also consider posting over on the Onkyo forum on Avforums to see if anyone has the same set-up as you for some guidance/recommendations.

L31mr0d

eddiem74 wrote: »

This link might help: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/

Just also google some of your questions, and browse a few articles to ensure consistent information.

You could also consider posting over on the Onkyo forum on Avforums to see if anyone has the same set-up as you for some guidance/recommendations.

I've already posted a thread over in the AVforums, as well as some other home cinema forums.

But thanks for the link, I've bookmarked that site for further reading.

Slaphead07

andy1249 wrote: »

Im going to upset you some more Im afraid ,

The component video type that the onkyo handles is YPbPr , not RGB , they are totally different and not compatible with each other.

Not upsetting at all... I didn't know that about Onkyo or YPbPr Vs RGB. Ta.

L31mr0d

For the digi box would it be better to use S-Video instead of the yellow phono connector?

Slaphead07

L31mr0d wrote: »

For the digi box would it be better to use S-Video instead of the yellow phono connector?

Yep, if S Video is an option.

The Ritz

Regarding your sub, I'd recommend you set the cut-off freq at 80hz.


In practical terms you shouldn't be able to "hear" the sub - you shouldn't be able to locate bass sound as coming from where the sub is located - you should just be aware that you have a full spectrum of sound in the mix - i.e. you should be able to "feel" the bass.............

In trms of location, try putting your sub in the place you normally sit, run some material with a decent bass sound to it, and try standing in various places in the room - corners, along side of walls etc - wherever you get the best sound is where you should place your sub.


Ritz.

L31mr0d

The Ritz wrote: »

Regarding your sub, I'd recommend you set the cut-off freq at 80hz.

In practical terms you shouldn't be able to "hear" the sub - you shouldn't be able to locate bass sound as coming from where the sub is located - you should just be aware that you have a full spectrum of sound in the mix - i.e. you should be able to "feel" the bass.............

funnily enough from my testing over the weekend I've ended up leaving the cut-off frequency at around 80Hz, it seems to work quite well. Its also odd not hearing the sub over the speakers, but I know its on as the sound is completely different if I turn it off. It's odd because my last sub (Logitech Z-5500) could be heard but it was far too boomy for my liking.

Also, I took your advice and got an Optical out for my PC (motherboard already had an SPDIF connector). Thing is though, am I understanding this right that now I'm only getting 2.0 audio out and the receiver is processing it (either by DD or DTS) to sound like 5.1?

How is using optical 2.0 better than using the 3 audio jacks out which are giving me 6 separate channels of audio for 5.1?

MathsManiac

L31mr0d wrote: »

I think I will go with your suggestion and just leave the SCART going directly into the TV. The Chorus digi box has a 3.5mm jack output for audio so I might just get a "3.5mm jack to 2 phono" cable and hook it up that way if Chorus can't upgrade my digi box.

Sorry to burst another bubble, but I don't think you'll have much joy with that 3.5 mm jack output; (I didn't anyway). The best combination I could come up with from the chorus box was to route both audio and video to the telly via the scart (RGB), and then take the audio back out from the TV through the AV amp. You're not getting any kind of decent audio signal out of it anyway (ie no digital surround). I have my amp set up to assume the audio in from the TV is dolby pro-logic, and that's the best I've managed to get out of the whole thing. So basically, the whole set-up is really only taken advantage of properly when I'm watching DVDs.

I don't know whether Chorus have any plans to upgrade to a decent audio signal, but last time I tried to find out, the answer was essentially: "Wha'?"

The Ritz

funnily enough from my testing over the weekend I've ended up leaving the cut-off frequency at around 80Hz, it seems to work quite well. Its also odd not hearing the sub over the speakers, but I know its on as the sound is completely different if I turn it off.

That's exactly the effect you need to achieve........... you're in a different league to the Logitech's now, no comparison.

Also, I took your advice and got an Optical out for my PC (motherboard already had an SPDIF connector).

Thing is though, am I understanding this right that now I'm only getting 2.0 audio out and the receiver is processing it (either by DD or DTS) to sound like 5.1?

If you're using the sound processing on the Motherboard then it should be sending an Spdif signal through the optical out. Whether you get 2.0 through the optical depends on what software you're using - for instance, if you're playing MP3s through Windows Media Player, you'll get a stereo signal passed through Spdif and your receiver will convert it to dolby prologic. If you're using dvd playing software, such as Powerdvd or Windvd, then you should go into the Configuration menu in the software, go to the Audio section and select Spdif, then when you play a dvd, the software will pass a digital signal through the mtherboard to your Receiver and it will decode it into DD or DTS, depending on which flavour it's getting.

How is using optical 2.0 better than using the 3 audio jacks out which are giving me 6 separate channels of audio for 5.1?

As above, you're not necessarily getting "optical 2.0". If you were using Powerdvd and you set the Audio in the software to output 5.1, and connected the 3 audio-out jacks to the multichannel-in of your Receiver, you'd be using the software to decode the Dolby or DTS signal and only be using the Receiver to amplify the result - this is a bit of a waste of the Receiver you've got, and I doubt if the audio set-up feature of the Onkyo would have any effect. You've got a well-regarded Reciever, let it do the job it was designed to do.

The primary benefit of using a PC as a dvd player is that it can better or equal the vast majority of dvd players for picture quality with standard software and with custom built software is virtually endlessly tweakable to taste, is easy to run as multiregional, can be set to ignore the tiresome warnings, trailers and menus and just go to the start of the movie.

Comparative video processing capability and the ability to upscale to 720p or 1080p has only very recently become available in blu-ray, hd-dvd and dvd players - having all three, I still prefer my PC.



You're getting there................


Ritz

L31mr0d

cheers for that advice. I'm currently using Media Player Classic to play movie files, some of which have 5.1 audio tracks. I was having an issue yesterday where the voice track in the center speaker was very dull. I took your advice and found there was in fact an "spdif" audio option, I had previously had it set to 5.1 surround sound as my speaker setup. Changing it to SPDIF enabled some extra listening modes on the Onkyo 606. Previously I was using Dolby PL II whereas now I can use Dolby Digital which sounds a lot better.

Here's a question in regards to surround sound options for the 2-channel input from my Chorus Digi box. I can choose between Dolby PL II and Neo 6: Cinema, however I've noticed for both of them that there is some slight distortion in the audio coming from the side speakers. Is this normal? What is my best option to create 5.1 surround sound from a 2-channel source?

The Ritz

I can choose between Dolby PL II and Neo 6: Cinema, however I've noticed for both of them that there is some slight distortion in the audio coming from the side speakers. Is this normal? What is my best option to create 5.1 surround sound from a 2-channel source?

This is all about the flavour of the ice cream..........

Choose which ever one you prefer, it's a matter of taste. As for the sound from your speakers, check what levels the rears and surrounds are set at in the Onkyo - they could be set a little on the high side. Remember that the Onkyo is creating the rear sound tracks from the stereo input, it's never going to sound like DD or DTS, you may just be making an unfair comparison between the two.

Ritz.

L31mr0d

The Ritz wrote: »

This is all about the flavour of the ice cream..........

Choose which ever one you prefer, it's a matter of taste. As for the sound from your speakers, check what levels the rears and surrounds are set at in the Onkyo - they could be set a little on the high side. Remember that the Onkyo is creating the rear sound tracks from the stereo input, it's never going to sound like DD or DTS, you may just be making an unfair comparison between the two.

Ritz.

I ran the automatic speaker setup on the Onkyo 606 and its calibrated them pretty well for the PC and the PS3. Its just on the Chorus digi box that I'm having the issue with generating 5.1 from the 2 channel input. For shows with a music track the sound is fine as the voice comes through the center speakers and the music is on the sides and fronts. But when it is just voice it is like there is this distorted lower volume voice being mapped to all of the other speakers. I'm just wondering it there's a way of stopping this as I don't remember having this issue using Dolby PL II with my previous Logitech set up.

The Ritz

That is not unknown, - if you're watching something that's mainly voice-based, just switch the Onkyo to stereo instead of DPL.



Ritz