What are they doing with the N4?

lods

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Have to say that as someone who travels Maynooth->M50 everyday the upgraded N4 is still working very well for me-no issues morning or evening. As far as I can see, the biggest issue still appears to be Ballyowen, where cars can tail back onto the main carriageway in the evenings.

The lack of motorway signs at the start of the M4 is an issue-who should be contacted about this? The NRA or South Dublin County Council?

Separatley, what are they doing on the M50 offramp?

The bit to & from the M50 is great. The problem is if your coming or going into town:mad:

Seth Brundle

lods wrote: »

No Motorway signs up after McCoys garage, makes it a bit confusing

IIRC there is but they are around the Spa and so far to the left to render them invisible to drivers on the mainline!

Redsoxfan

kbannon wrote: »

IIRC there is but they are around the Spa and so far to the left to render them invisible to drivers on the mainline!

That's right. You would be doing very well to see it at 80kph. It only states 'Motorway Ahead' as far as I know-there are no 'chopsticks' until you are on the Leixlip on ramp-there are none on the mainline.

oddiot

Redsoxfan wrote: »

That's right. You would be doing very well to see it at 80kph. It only states 'Motorway Ahead' as far as I know-there are no 'chopsticks' until you are on the Leixlip on ramp-there are none on the mainline.

No chopsticks, but at least the overhead gantry sign says lane 1 for Leixlip in white, lane 2 and 3 for M4 in blue.

icdg

oddiot wrote: »

No chopsticks, but at least the overhead gantry sign says lane 1 for Leixlip in white, lane 2 and 3 for M4 in blue.

Not only are there no chopsticks, but the "Motorway Ahead" sign is so far off the mainline (being inside the filter lane as well as Lane 1, which is a lane drop at this junction) that traffic actually continuing on for the motorway won't see it.

Yes the mainline is signed blue, as it should be, but this doesn't necessarily indicate a motorway (although most Irish and UK drivers would know it as such). After all, there are blue directional signs in Dublin (and Cork) city centre and they're nowhere near a motorway! What indicates the start of the motorway is the chopsticks. This is what international (well European) drivers will recognise - the chopsticks are used (in various dimensions) in practically every Western European country, including the ones (such as Italy and Cyprus) that sign motorways with green signage as opposed to blue.

There is hope - I saw today that some of the signage is still going up on the N4 (well, a flag sign for St Loman's Hospital and an extra ADS for the filter lane) that wasn't there last week, so there's hope that they'll go back and do the chopsticks (and perhaps fix the still-lying-on-the ground gore sign eastbound at J5).

Redsoxfan

oddiot wrote: »

No chopsticks, but at least the overhead gantry sign says lane 1 for Leixlip in white, lane 2 and 3 for M4 in blue.

Aye, but where exactly does the speed limit change? Under the gantry? Somewhere else? The Traffic Corps are frequently in the area-so it would be nice if there was more clarity around where the 120kph limit begins.

orbital83

With all the schools now back, it's becoming obvious that the N4 is not yet fixed. Focus now shifts to the weeping sore that is Palmerstown.
Leaving at 6.15pm, City Centre to Leixlip turnoff still took an hour this evening. Traffic at Palmerstown Lights was back as far as Inchicore Road.

Community division comments etc all taken on board, but human beings were given a brain for a reason; to use a little imagination and develop solutions.
Where else would this happen? - I was in Belfast earlier in the week and I saw no Palmerstowns on the 5-lane M1 heading into the city. And that's a city which is a fraction of Dublin's size.

L1011

John J wrote: »

With all the schools now back, it's becoming obvious that the N4 is not yet fixed. Focus now shifts to the weeping sore that is Palmerstown.
Leaving at 6.15pm, City Centre to Leixlip turnoff still took an hour this evening. Traffic at Palmerstown Lights was back as far as Inchicore Road.

Community division comments etc all taken on board, but human beings were given a brain for a reason; to use a little imagination and develop solutions.
Where else would this happen? - I was in Belfast earlier in the week and I saw no Palmerstowns on the 5-lane M1 heading into the city. And that's a city which is a fraction of Dublin's size.

The M1 which ended at a roundabout until last year? Also, the 5 lane road is the M2 which ends at a set of traffic lights. Also they were built in the 60s when wholesale destruction was easy to get away with. This happens in large cities all across the UK and other countries.

Palmerston needs the same solution as done at Lucan. There is just about enough space, it appears from aerial photos (always a bad way to judge, admittedly). The second set of lights basically needs to be removed and traffic sent to whatever GSJ they replace the main set with.

acmj2007

John J wrote: »

With all the schools now back, it's becoming obvious that the N4 is not yet fixed. Focus now shifts to the weeping sore that is Palmerstown.
Leaving at 6.15pm, City Centre to Leixlip turnoff still took an hour this evening. Traffic at Palmerstown Lights was back as far as Inchicore Road.

Community division comments etc all taken on board, but human beings were given a brain for a reason; to use a little imagination and develop solutions.
Where else would this happen? - I was in Belfast earlier in the week and I saw no Palmerstowns on the 5-lane M1 heading into the city. And that's a city which is a fraction of Dublin's size.

It should have been obvious to anyone with half a brain that this would happen:rolleyes:. Does not appear to be any plans to change it at the moment:mad:.Do away with the lights at the oval & only hape one junction at Palmerstown village. CPO part of Vincent Byrnes to create a slip. It may be nesssessary to force traffic one way & make it turn at the next junction to go the other way.

murphaph

I'm in two minds about Palmerstown. I mean, where do you stop? If Palmerstown is fixed will the problem not just shift eastwards? Perhaps there's a valid argument with Palmerstown (in comparison to say the longmile road junction on the R110) that there's a "good run" OF D2 from there to the Ballyfermot turn off (on Con Colbert Road) and traffic splits and heads towards Chapelizod also to warrant a GSJ at Palmerstown but I'm not sure.

Really I believe EVERY penny of capital spending on transport inside the M50 should now go on public transport enhancements. How many (proper) bus priority measures could be installed (assuming a competent DTA ever emerges to do it) for the money we'd spend one one GSJ at Palmerstown? If money was no object, sure no problem but those days are gone and we must stack every project up against others across the land and only build what delivers value for money.

L1011

Theres a good few KM of grade seperated D2 east of Palmerston and the route carries N4-N9 traffic (on the signposted routes anyway) out the city, the N7/8/9 traffic being signed down there due to its perceived high quality status

Seth Brundle

Holsten wrote: »

Was told eariler that they have finally blocked off the on ramp to the N4 east bound in Lucan, just after Maxol/McDonalds here.

I think this is stupid as hell, and will just add to the massive levels of traffic already in the village.

Apparently it has been closed permanently since Sept 2nd.

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Aye, but where exactly does the speed limit change? Under the gantry? Somewhere else? The Traffic Corps are frequently in the area-so it would be nice if there was more clarity around where the 120kph limit begins.

The western side of the bridge at the Leixlip / Celbridge interchange (where it goes back to two lanes).

With regard to traffic flow, if they were to build something at Palmerstown, then traffic would reach the Kilmainham area more quickly and the 'roundabout' there is bad enough at peak times. Traffic heading towards Hueston will become a disaster (more so!)!

Zube

kbannon wrote: »

Traffic heading towards Hueston will become a disaster (more so!)!

but this same argument applies to removing any bottleneck: traffic will arrive at the next one more quickly.

Yet eliminating bottlenecks does decrease journey times.

manc

kbannon wrote: »

The western side of the bridge at the Leixlip / Celbridge interchange (where it goes back to two lanes).

I had a look at this on the way home last night and noticed that the old 120km/h sign has been removed and there is only a pole there now, so no actual spot to say where the speed/motorway starts and if you take the speed limit signs that means the last one is 80km/h on the Lucan bypass all the way down the M4 to wherever the next one is.

Note I was heading up the Leixlip sliproad so thay may have just moved it but I couldn't see it.

Seth Brundle

Fair enough. I very rarely travel under the bridge (as I'm in Leixlip and have no real need)

fretfret

i noticed that there are a number of spelling mistakes on roadsigns on the n4 for palmersto(w)n...

there are 5 signs at least on this road, and 3 have palmerston (without the w).
and 2 have palmerstown ?

if people creating signs dont know how to spell a placename why dont they just keep it consistently wrong instead of changing it for every signpost?? i mean it would look less silly if they spelt it wrong but did it on every signpost, not as many people will notice this, but i mean come on, whats the point in spelling it two different ways on different signs...
someone needs to be sacked if not already if you ask me...

L1011

SDCC changed their mind on the w between the signs with the w being put up and the signs without being put up. Signs from now own are meant to have no w.

icdg

fretfret wrote: »

i noticed that there are a number of spelling mistakes on roadsigns on the n4 for palmersto(w)n...

there are 5 signs at least on this road, and 3 have palmerston (without the w).
and 2 have palmerstown ?

if people creating signs dont know how to spell a placename why dont they just keep it consistently wrong instead of changing it for every signpost?? i mean it would look less silly if they spelt it wrong but did it on every signpost, not as many people will notice this, but i mean come on, whats the point in spelling it two different ways on different signs...
someone needs to be sacked if not already if you ask me...

This is a forgivable error in this case. The official name of the area is Palmerston, but local usage and pronounciation has changed it to Palmerstown. There was meant to a plebscite on whether or not it should be officially changed to Palmerstown but I don't know whether it went ahead and what the result was.

Given all that, its forgivable for them to be confused over the name...

L1011

120km/h signs are now - finally - up at the status change and they are replacing all the ADS/junction signs between here and J6 (the ADS now has "Kinnegad" added at the bottom as well as the three terminal destinations, strangely) so we may get the chopsticks!

Victor - might want to move this to infrastructure?

KevR

Are they ever going to raise the limit on the Lucan Bypass? 80kmh is impossible to stick to on a road like this.

Seth Brundle

Too many people would suddenly die if the limit was changed (as we all know that speed kills!).
Anyhow, driver behavious prohibits this at most times during the day (I came home there a short while ago and it was pointless being in lanes 2 & 3 if you were hoping to make progress)

Carawaystick

I was in a car that was driven out there at about 18:05 last evening and almost all the traffic was exceeding 100kmh..... I'd assume that this is rush hour No?

KevR

I agree that lane discipline is terrible on this stretch (and the M50). They should put up 'keep left unless overtaking' signs. People seemingly don't realise that they are legally required to keep left. 3 or 4 lane dual carriageways/motorways are quite rare here so maybe it is a case of people not being properly educated.

Was in England over the weekend and we were approaching Liverpool Airport on the plane, we passed over the M62. You could clearly see that Lane 1 was going a certain speed, Lane 2 was going a bit faster and Lane 3 was a bit faster again. Same when driving on the M62 to Manchester, the excellent lane discipline really caught my attention.

Lucan Bypass and upgraded sections of the M50 are a disaster in comparison. In the case of the Lucan Bypass, I do think that the low limit actually does the lane discipline no favours. If people don't agree with the speed limit and are breaking it then why would they care about proper lane discipline?

I say raise the limit to 100kmh and put up 'Keep Left Unless Overtaking' signs.

Heroditas

KevR wrote: »

I say raise the limit to 100kmh and put up 'Keep Left Unless Overtaking' signs.

Completely agree.

The main issue is the fact that traffic joining the N4 from the M50 southbound is usually travelling very slowly due to the path the road follows as it meets the N4. People slow right down to 30/40kmph as they join and then sit in the 3rd lane for ages without speeding up. This is compounded by the brow of the hill as they finally come up over the M50.

Then you have the people who join from the M50 northbound who are usually travelling at a decent speed. So the fastest traffic is sitting in the inner lane, the slowest traffic in the outermost lane and all the people coming from Palmerstown tootling along at 60kmph in the middle lane. :rolleyes:

It gets worse then near the Woodies exit because everyone sits in lanes two and three apart from the people leaving at that junction. It's almost as if they still expect people to come steaming out of the Texaco garage onto the main road (like the old days) despite that exit being blocked now.

The inner lane is then empty sall the way down to the Newcastle junction and then after that still remains empty to the Leixlip exit because people don't want to get "trapped" in the inner lane if they're heading west.
What they fail to realize is that it's the middle lane hoggers who cause all this mess and sit on your right shoulder, preventing you from changing lanes safely. :mad:

KevR

KevR wrote: »

maybe it is a case of people not being properly educated.

Was in England over the weekend and we were approaching Liverpool Airport on the plane, we passed over the M62. You could clearly see that Lane 1 was going a certain speed, Lane 2 was going a bit faster and Lane 3 was a bit faster again. Same when driving on the M62 to Manchester, the excellent lane discipline really caught my attention.


I say raise the limit to 100kmh and put up 'Keep Left Unless Overtaking' signs.

There was an education exercise a few years ago in the UK which used cartoons of pigs driving in the middle lane with the caption " don't be a middle lane hog" as well as traffic police "having a little word" with persiatant offenders + a bit of road rage!

neil_purdy

KevR wrote: »

Are they ever going to raise the limit on the Lucan Bypass? 80kmh is impossible to stick to on a road like this.

I drive out the N4 everyday for work i have no problem driving at 80.. seems fine to me.. I just sit in the inside lane..

They couldnt raise it anyway with the bus stops i presume?? That would surly cause accidents buses slowing down to pull in and pulling out!

KevR

Neil, a lot of people travel at 100kmh now even though there is a 80kmh limit and there aren't loads of accidents.

Raising the limit would only reflect what is already the common driving practice. If anything it would improve safety - as it stands now you have some people obeying the 80kmh limit and you have many others breaking the limit; people driving at different speeds can cause accidents. If the limit gets raised then people who now drive at 80kmh will more than likely switch to 100kmh and there will be more uniformity with speed. A greater uniformity with speed will smooth out the traffic flow and improve safety in my opinion.

We should know by now that if we set ridiculous speed limits that nobody agrees with because it feels like you're travelling unnaturally slow for the road you're on, a lot of people will tend to break the limit. The Galway Ring Road is a classic example. Nobody agrees with the speed limit so they don't obey it. It would actually be dangerous to drive at the limit on the Ring Road, you could get rail-roaded by someone steaming up behind you.

neil_purdy

You know if they up it to 100 people will drive at 120.. so where do you stop..

KevR

I made the point that if people disagree with a limit they won't obey it. Obviously at lot of people disagree with 80kmh. I think most people would accept 100kmh as a fair limit and obey it.

A lot of people would be annoyed if they saw the Gardai out enforcing the 80kmh limit but I think people would be a lot more understanding if the Gardai were out enforcing a 100kmh limit.

Just my opinion though.

a_ominous

My understanding of the 80kmph is that its purpose is to keep noise from the road down, not for road safety. There were barriers put along the N4 between Newcastle Road and Woodies as there are houses here. Most of these houses built before Lucan bypass was built. I've read some reports of complaints that the barriers haven't been as effective as required.

AFAIK noise is also the reason why M50 south of Firhouse has a 100kmph limit.

KevR

That's an understandable reason for having a low limit, although it still is annoying to have a low limit.

Hopefully they can better sound barriers.

oddiot

I think it should be 80km/h between M50 and Woodies due to all the issues mentioned in previous posts, and 100km from Woodies to the M4/Leixlip interchange.

icdg

MYOB wrote: »

120km/h signs are now - finally - up at the status change and they are replacing all the ADS/junction signs between here and J6 (the ADS now has "Kinnegad" added at the bottom as well as the three terminal destinations, strangely) so we may get the chopsticks!

Typically, the first thing they do is replace the route confirmation sign after J5 westbound with a slightly bigger version of the same sign - only difference is Kinnegad again added. No ADS have been changed westbound yet.

Its a pity we'll be losing some of the last remaining 1990s motorway signage in the country (though the M11 still has some...) but these signs have grown faded and have been patched to pieces in some instances. I'd have prioritised J5 and J7 for updating and left J6 as it is comparatively new and the signage is correct for pre-2005. J5 eastbound is in particular need of updating since the 500m ADS is particularly faded and the gore sign is no longer on its poles, but standing upright on the ground...

By the way, anyone know what the roadworks on the hard shoulder for about two or three miles immediately west of J9 are for?

L1011

icdg wrote: »

Typically, the first thing they do is replace the route confirmation sign after J5 westbound with a slightly bigger version of the same sign - only difference is Kinnegad again added. No ADS have been changed westbound yet.

Its a pity we'll be losing some of the last remaining 1990s motorway signage in the country (though the M11 still has some...) but these signs have grown faded and have been patched to pieces in some instances. I'd have prioritised J5 and J7 for updating and left J6 as it is comparatively new and the signage is correct for pre-2005. J5 eastbound is in particular need of updating since the 500m ADS is particularly faded and the gore sign is no longer on its poles, but standing upright on the ground...

By the way, anyone know what the roadworks on the hard shoulder for about two or three miles immediately west of J9 are for?

Theres no indication of them changing the J7 signage, patched to death (Westport over Castlebar on ADS, Naas over Celbridge on junction signage, J7 panels, etc) just yet. 1993 vintage... as is the signage on approach to that junction off the R403 - except they never patched out Castlebar!

Are those roadworks not for the Superstop services?


As goes the speed limits, the road opened as 60mph and was dropped for safety reasons - not noise. Home owners knew what they were getting themselves in to when they bought the houses as the reservation for the bypass existed well before it was built...

Redsoxfan

MYOB wrote: »

Are those roadworks not for the Superstop services?

I was wondering this myself as I drove to Athlone today-it would make sense-I can't see what else they would be doing so close to the carriageway.

MYOB wrote: »

As goes the speed limits, the road opened as 60mph and was dropped for safety reasons - not noise. Home owners knew what they were getting themselves in to when they bought the houses as the reservation for the bypass existed well before it was built...

Yeah-the N7 has a limit of 100kph and noise barriers (Kill-Johnstown), so I don't see why the limit would be 80kph on the N4 for noise reasons.

df1985

something has to be done with the leixlip/celbridge exit.
a number of times now i have seen cars, all with galway/longford regs (clearly not used to the new layout) coming up the seperated lane from the spa, getting to the end of the orange bollards and trying to cut across the 3rd lane (and gravel!) to get onto the motorway. they arent going up and over the interchange-im presuming they think theyll be forced into leixlip/celbridge.

so dangerous for anyone exiting for leixlip/celbridge to see a car trying to get across.another 2/3 orange bollards would eliminate this.they simply wouldnt be able to cut across.

df1985

df1985 wrote: »

something has to be done with the leixlip/celbridge exit.
a number of times now i have seen cars, all with galway/longford regs (clearly not used to the new layout) coming up the seperated lane from the spa, getting to the end of the orange bollards and trying to cut across the 3rd lane (and gravel!) to get onto the motorway. they arent going up and over the interchange-im presuming they think theyll be forced into leixlip/celbridge.

so dangerous for anyone exiting for leixlip/celbridge to see a car trying to get across.another 2/3 orange bollards would eliminate this.they simply wouldnt be able to cut across.

theyve finally put traffic cones here to stop people doing this.about bloody time.

i brought it to the attention of my neighbour who is a guard in lucan before xmas and it turned out a number of people had brought it to their attention. really was lethal!

Redsoxfan

What works are still going on at Woodies?

L1011

They were working on an exit today (I passed 4 times yet I can't remember which one!) putting stuff down in the gore to make it harder for idiots to try and rejoin the mainline from the service lane. I'm presuming it was the Woodies one.

Redsoxfan

MYOB wrote: »

They were working on an exit today (I passed 4 times yet I can't remember which one!) putting stuff down in the gore to make it harder for idiots to try and rejoin the mainline from the service lane. I'm presuming it was the Woodies one.

Presume you are talking about the Westbound exit?

There are has been construction 'paraphernalia' at the Eastbound exit since the N4 itself was finished, I was just wondering was there anything else going on there.

L1011

One of the Westbound ones yeah.

They've been reinstating the Hermitage Golf Club's wall and old entrance on the eastbound side.

Heroditas

MYOB wrote: »

One of the Westbound ones yeah.

They've been reinstating the Hermitage Golf Club's wall and old entrance on the eastbound side.

Utterly ridiculous and it drives me up the wall.

That entrance should be blocked off and they should be entering and exiting the golf club grounds up by the roundabout at Woodies.
Instead we have gits crawling straight out onto the innermost lane on the N4 at 30kmph or people slowing right down and diving across lanes to enter the club at the last minute. :mad:

L1011

Heroditas wrote: »

That entrance should be blocked off and they should be entering and exiting the golf club grounds up by the roundabout at Woodies.

Which they did for some weeks during the upgrade!

manc

df1985 wrote: »

theyve finally put traffic cones here to stop people doing this.about bloody time.

Noticed that alright, wondering if it had anything to do with an accident there about a week ago where it looked like a car tried to cut accross from teh end of the dedicated lane to the N4 and was hit by a car exiting the N4 for Leixlip, both drivers were walking around.

Although they were lucky there wasn't another accident as they left one of the cars covering about half the lane to exit the N4

df1985

yeah thats what its to stop, loads of people were doing it, only a matter of time before there were accidents. theyre putting down a concrete curb there now to stop it.

also the coming onto the n4 now from leixlip there sorting out where they kept the trucks and site office etc. there was a big bump as you joined the upgraded section.

Seth Brundle

I was heading home yesterday along the N4 westwards and as I approached the sliproad off the N4 for Leixlip at the Spa, there was someone joining the N4 from the dedicated lane. By the time I slowed and went past them, they were sitting on the hatched markings bewtween the slip road and the mainline, perpendicular to traffic.