discussion of airsoft adverts

Tigger

I did not start a feedback thread i wanted an in house discussion on discussion of some of th egear being sold for airsoft





i know its thread s[poiling to try to offer advice and or critisim of arrsoft adverts on thread

but is it against the charter to discussthe relative benifits and of prices expected or recomendations to people in the main forum

bit like the photos no discussion and the discussion of photos thread

that way issues can be nipped it the bud

i feel that some noobs are possaibly getting stung by the alure of airsoft gear at too high a price

and here is an example i'm sure he wont mind

beast asi seems to have a aeg firing at 327 and 34 rps which is silly

if he was to offer it for sale the fact that its modified would have very interesting issues

on one hand it'd be an animal of a skirmish weapon on the other it'd be an expert level; toy on the purchaser would need to know one end of the aeg from the other

kdouglas

Well he wouldn't be selling that here either way because it's over 1 Joule

The adverts forum is run under the rule of "Buyer Beware", it is the buyer's responsibility to educate themselves about what they are buying. This is a rule which has been adopted from adverts.ie which has been around alot longer than our own adverts forum.

Tigger

kdouglas wrote: »

Well he wouldn't be selling that here either way because it's over 1 Joule

The adverts forum is run under the rule of "Buyer Beware", it is the buyer's responsibility to educate themselves about what they are buying. This is a rule which has been adopted from adverts.ie which has been around alot longer than our own adverts forum.

edeited
it was 327 but anyways....

i'm talking about discussing it =here in boards.ie

not in adverts.ie

in other forums one can ask advice or offer advice on adverts.ie so is it against the airsoft charter

buyer beware is all very good but some of the antagonisim in other hobbies i have been involved in have come form noobs being stung or feeling that they've been stung in transactions with people involved in the hobby this can cause "generation gaps"


apart from that i'm asking is there a reason that i am not allowed give my opinion on an item that is for sale be it good or bad

kdouglas

If the buyer wants to post here in the main forum to ask advice that's fine, but posting about an item in an airsoft adverts or adverts.ie thread is considered thread spoiling unless you are interested in buying the item.

kinkstr

Tigger wrote: »

is there a reason that i am not allowed give my opinion on an item that is for sale be it good or bad

Because its none of your business maybe?

Tigger

pot calling the kettle black

how was this any of your business

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56395305#post56395305

kinkstr

A feedback thread? Thats anyone on boards business. Im not having a go at you, the fact remains the only people who should post in adverts threads are the buyer, the seller and a mod if things go out of line. I actually agree with you that people are getting ****ed over in adverts but you'l only be giving yourself grief by posting on said thread.

The Master

As KD said its buyer beware.

If you buy something without looking into it at all its your own fault if you get ripped off.

BTW I don't see anywhere where buyers are being ripped off in the adverts forum

kdouglas

I haven't seen anyone get ripped off in the airsoft adverts forum, maybe you're referring to adverts.ie but the airsoft adverts forum is seperate.

If you see a post which you are concerned over the buyer getting a bad deal or being ripped off, feel free to hit the report post button and explain why, if necessary myself or one of the other moderators may choose to step in.

NakedDex

You're going down the route of personalising this with that post mate. It's a fair point, try to keep it on your own topic eh?


Frankly the reason people aren't allowed post their opinions on the adverts section is because it is just that, none of anyone else's business. Posting a "that unit is a piece of crap" or "that piece is excellent" on adverts is the equivalent of being in a shop and having a complete stranger stick their nose in to give an unwanted opinion. Post-counts don't show whether a person is a new player or not, so determining whether they are relies on the person themselves declaring the fact. If they do, they may ask for advice, usually in the troubleshooting/advice thread. If they don't the Caveat Emptor applies, just as it would if you were in a store buying tools or appliances etc.

The adverts section sets up a discussion between a seller and a potential buyer. It is up to the seller to provide accurate and true information, just as it is up to the buyer to ask any and all questions that satisfies him/her that the object up for sale is what they want, is suitable and is at an agreed price.
To have someone else interject with their own opinion is not only rude, it's counter-productive for both the seller and the buyer and introduces unnecessary proceedings.

Scenario: You're selling a torch, average type, nothing fancy. You're asking 30 for it since you paid 50. Potential buyer arrives to the scene, asks power and battery type. You provide correct information. Buyer agrees to sale but hasn't yet finalised via PM. Third party enters discussion claiming he had a bad experience with that type of torch before and advises against buying it. Buyer declines sale before finalising based on third party information.

Result: You're left with a torch still for sale, some dodgy information posted on your thread about the torch you have for sale and a lot of animosity for the person who posted the "advice"

The third party could genuinely have had an issue with that type of torch, but it could also have been a once off, or a bad batch. Nothing to say that your unit was similarly afflicted. But the buyer has gotten the impression that all examples of that torch are faulty due to this third party experience, and the assumption can be made that anyone else reading the thread would draw the same conclusions. Reinforced by a person backing out of a sale for one.
The information could also have been false, made by someone who you may have inadvertently rubbed the wrong way during a skirmish or in a previous thread. The anonymity provided by the internet makes it easy for someone to ruin a sale using the above method as, for the most part, on adverts people are expected to be reasonably trustworthy with information.
You'd have no way of proving otherwise in either case.

That's pretty much why discussion is disallowed on adverts. And it's there for good reason and cause.

CrazyRabbit

If you see an advert for something that you have a concern about, feel free to PM any member who shows an interest in it. And as KD stated, you can also report the post if you feel it's warranted.

Other than that, I don't see any value in publicly bashing a seller.

Tigger

kinkstr wrote: »

A feedback thread? Thats anyone on boards business. Im not having a go at you, the fact remains the only people who should post in adverts threads are the buyer, the seller and a mod if things go out of line. I actually agree with you that people are getting ****ed over in adverts but you'l only be giving yourself grief by posting on said thread.

not in the thread in a seperate thread in the main forum

just mabey ones opinion of certain items currently for sale

one of my fave airsoft toys is being sold at the moment

no way on earth i'd pay whats being asked tho

i reckon that second hand even nearly new like in car showrooms is not wofth any more than 75% of new

yet i see stuff going for 120% of what irish retailers would expect

so again im asking for athread thread in the main forum

and hey there are often bargins that i'd point

ps i thought you were asking me to mind my own business but i just want the community to develop

Tigger

NakedDex wrote: »

You're going down the route of personalising this with that post mate. It's a fair point, try to keep it on your own topic eh?


Frankly the reason people aren't allowed post their opinions on the adverts section is because it is just that, none of anyone else's business. Posting a "that unit is a piece of crap" or "that piece is excellent" on adverts is the equivalent of being in a shop and having a complete stranger stick their nose in to give an unwanted opinion. Post-counts don't show whether a person is a new player or not, so determining whether they are relies on the person themselves declaring the fact. If they do, they may ask for advice, usually in the troubleshooting/advice thread. If they don't the Caveat Emptor applies, just as it would if you were in a store buying tools or appliances etc.

The adverts section sets up a discussion between a seller and a potential buyer. It is up to the seller to provide accurate and true information, just as it is up to the buyer to ask any and all questions that satisfies him/her that the object up for sale is what they want, is suitable and is at an agreed price.
To have someone else interject with their own opinion is not only rude, it's counter-productive for both the seller and the buyer and introduces unnecessary proceedings.

Scenario: You're selling a torch, average type, nothing fancy. You're asking 30 for it since you paid 50. Potential buyer arrives to the scene, asks power and battery type. You provide correct information. Buyer agrees to sale but hasn't yet finalised via PM. Third party enters discussion claiming he had a bad experience with that type of torch before and advises against buying it. Buyer declines sale before finalising based on third party information.

Result: You're left with a torch still for sale, some dodgy information posted on your thread about the torch you have for sale and a lot of animosity for the person who posted the "advice"

The third party could genuinely have had an issue with that type of torch, but it could also have been a once off, or a bad batch. Nothing to say that your unit was similarly afflicted. But the buyer has gotten the impression that all examples of that torch are faulty due to this third party experience, and the assumption can be made that anyone else reading the thread would draw the same conclusions. Reinforced by a person backing out of a sale for one.
The information could also have been false, made by someone who you may have inadvertently rubbed the wrong way during a skirmish or in a previous thread. The anonymity provided by the internet makes it easy for someone to ruin a sale using the above method as, for the most part, on adverts people are expected to be reasonably trustworthy with information.
You'd have no way of proving otherwise in either case.

That's pretty much why discussion is disallowed on adverts. And it's there for good reason and cause.

what if the torch is available in tescos for a tenner

Tigger

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

If you see an advert for something that you have a concern about, feel free to PM any member who shows an interest in it. And as KD stated, you can also report the post if you feel it's warranted.

Other than that, I don't see any value in publicly bashing a seller.

i'm not looking to publically bash anyone

i'm not pm'ng mods over pricing i just thought advice offered in the spirit of goodwill would be helpfull aparantly i'm niave

NakedDex

Tigger wrote: »

what if the torch is available in tescos for a tenner

Let them find that out for themselves. If you get a toaster for 40 bucks in Argos and see the same one in Currys for 20, do you blame the Argos staff for not telling you it's cheaper elsewhere or do you blame yourself for not shopping around and checking prices first?

Tigger

NakedDex wrote: »

Let them find that out for themselves.

finding out for themselves causes ammonosity in hobby circles


and if i was part of a group who pla6y with toaster all day i'd be happy if someone pointed me away from the lemone

NakedDex

I'm using the toaster as an example of everyday occurances of the same situation you're describing. The phrase "Caveat Emptor" (buyer beware) is written in law. If the person hasn't had a look to find the average price of the unit they want, then it's not the buyers fault. Sure, things may be available cheaper elsewhere, they always are, that doesn't warrant a comparison in every case though.
If someone is selling a scope, deal-extreme have them for half nothing.
Someone might be selling camo, ebaybanned do loads of it for cheap.
Someone selling a silencer, ehobby always have deals on them.
The list goes on and on. Fact is, all this information is in the newbie thread. If said new player doesn't take the time to read that, check prices in various places, shop around, maybe do a bit of haggling, then it's not the fault of the seller or of the community at large. It's the fault of the buyer for not informing his/herself of the facts.
It's all been put up there in black and white in the newbie thread, and there's a thread where new players can ask advice. If they don't use it, it's their loss.

Stercus Accidit

In the case of serious misinformation in adverts, if it were to happen that a rubbish item was marketed as something better to up its sale value, its easy to ask the seller a question about the item as an interested party to allow others to see that information.

TBH adverts rules work quite well, there are rarely issues.

Tigger

buyer beware is for property

here give up

incidentally it was magic the gathering which when it was starting in ireland developed a funny habit of unfair swaps and sales

people who know know

from that game came the gathering cards
so here you are



wanna buy a cd burner

o1s1n

Moving to feedback. Where it really should have been put in the first place.

RoundyMooney

This generally falls under the remit of adverts, due to Lemming's personal involvement in running and maintaining the category in question. Assuch it's much of a muchness whether it gets discussed here or on Adverts Support. I know Lemming favours the latter.

However, he's afk atm, and I'm not touching this with a bargepole, for one reason, because it's not something that falls under my responsibility-strictly speaking, and for another because the amount of bitching that seems to surround anything airsoft related on boards-but in particular the adverts category/forum is frankly ridiculous.

The rules are there, and are proven. If you don't like it there are alternatives.

Gatling

ok who the decides value of gear or aegs people are selling on the adverts on the airsoft forum ,
some aegs are bought online at very over inflated prices shippings and any extras needed , and if they decide to sell the aeg on then ,what then somebody comes along and says oh knock 100euro off your price and thats its real value in there estimation,thats wrong in its self ,now i spent the last hour going through all the airsoft sales thread ,
and havent found a case where somebody made a large profit from a sale ,

ive bought most of my airsoft gear and aegs from the sales threads ad some wasnt exactly what was described but over all i was happy ,

why the need to open a feedback thread where no actual complaint is present ,if you have been upset by an issue work it out off boards ,

there enought unfounded bitching in airsoft wheathers its a person or a post about something ,

its a hobby thats suppost to be fun ,
until everybody starts playing junior politics or try to make a name for themselfs ,
just skirmish and have fun,

Tigger

i didn't start a feedback thread
it was ment to be an "in house" discussion it was moved here

also can something be put at the stard of this thread to show i didn't start a feedback thread

Gatling

ahh i see ,

Cuddlesworth

Tigger wrote: »

what if the torch is available in tescos for a tenner

Yawn.......

Then post a link to the torch in Tescos pointing it out. Providing its the same torch. What's not to understand here? Thread spoiling is giving of opinions eg;

You can get that much cheaper elsewhere

Thats a bad model, they break all the time.......etc


There is nothing wrong with posting link to the intended product saying it can be found cheaper, as long as you compare all the costs and charges possible. That's not a opinion, its fact and you can prove it.

o1s1n

Tigger wrote: »

i didn't start a feedback thread
it was ment to be an "in house" discussion it was moved here

also can something be put at the stard of this thread to show i didn't start a feedback thread

It was feedback about a forum. Therefore should have been posted in the appropriate section. I don't care if you wanted an 'in house' discussion. It had no place there.

The airsoft forum gets bad enough with petty arguing that the last thing we really need is arguing over adverts and money.

There will be no threads in the main forum discussing people being ripped off in adverts. If you feel strongly about it, pm a moderator to get it sorted. Or even take it to adverts support -

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=646

These things are better sorted in private than publicly accusing someone of ripping people off. I really don't see how that does the community any good tbh.

Tigger

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Yawn.......

Then post a link to the torch in Tescos pointing it out. Providing its the same torch. What's not to understand here? Thread spoiling is giving of opinions eg;

You can get that much cheaper elsewhere

Thats a bad model, they break all the time.......etc


There is nothing wrong with posting link to the intended product saying it can be found cheaper, as long as you compare all the costs and charges possible. That's not a opinion, its fact and you can prove it.

thank you

so i am allowed to link to an identical product as long as i give a price based on appliciable taxes and charges

and aagin i point out was looking for in houise feedback

Tigger

o1s1n wrote: »

These things are better sorted in private than publicly accusing someone of ripping people off. I really don't see how that does the community any good tbh.

who did i accuse of ripping someone off??
#

the examples i gave were

1 that a highly strung aeg would have its own pros and cons
2 that some things are available new for cheaper than advertised sevcod hand


it wasn't feedback it was a question

nobody said this is the moderated decision i thought i was chatting to kd and dex etc about our opinions

Cuddlesworth

Tigger wrote: »

thank you

so i am allowed to link to an identical product as long as i give a price based on appliciable taxes and charges

Yes. Its not tread spoiling since its backed up by proof.

silver haze

i was, and still am, banned from the airsoft adverts for advising that a product could be purchased from somewhere else, with all incured charges included.

while i do not support a thread like the OP suggests, but perhaps a specific sticky hilighting the dangers of buying second hand gear. and something with a non-patronizing title would be helpful.
something a little more encouraging than "N00BZ luk here 1st"

RoundyMooney

Instead of making up your own rules guys, try sticking to the ones we (collectively, as those tasked with the thankless task of keeping order) so thoughtfully provide.

Threadspoiling will not be tolerated. End of. I cba saying why for the hundredth time.