Ferguson already starting the war..

jackdaw

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7520773.stm


you'd think he'd be happy with the double last season .. (even though EC was undeserved) ...

pvt.joker

hehe, good aul Fergie.

CHD

I cant wait to see Fergie's big read head about to burst and him frantically chewing gum when they are failing this year.

BaZmO*

CHD wrote: »

I cant wait to see Fergie's big read head about to burst and him frantically chewing gum when they are failing this year.

Well winning the Champion's League and Premier League in the same year while also retaining the League can afford him a year of not winning anything.


It'll be interesting to see how Scholari fairs in the mind games stakes. Funny that Fergie never got involved in mind games with Mourinho though.

Mr Alan

BaZmO* wrote: »

Well winning the Champion's League and Premier League in the same year while also retaining the League can afford him a year of not winning anything.

do you think for a second that Ferguson thinks that?:eek:

Dont be at yourself

He makes valid points. Say what you want about Fergie, but he's usually spot-on when it comes to talking football.

Are Ballack, Lampard, Drogba, Terry and Carvalho likely to improve this season, considering their age? They came up short last year against a Man Utd team that is getting better by the season. Chelsea could use fresh, young blood in there to revitalise things.

Mitch Connor

Wow.

Did any of you manage to read the article or just get to the headlines we have seen and left it at that?

Chelsea have a "lots of experience and big-game temperament". He has said that he doesn't see massive improvement coming from the players they have, which is fair to say. Are Ballack, Terry, Lampard, Drogba, Essien going to improve? I don't think so. They are great players, but they are playing at the top of their game NOW. Chelsea don't have a young squad of improving players, they have a squad of players at their peak. That is not an insult, it is a great thing to have, but it CAN also mean that their level of performance won't differ much from last season.... which again is not a bad thing as they only lost the CL on penalties (Oh, and if people want to say United didn't deserve to win it, then screw it - Chelsea didn't deserve to win the game) and only lost the league by 2 points. Chelsea are, to some extent, a known entity.

Or is it that he mentioned Arsenal and Liverpool as title rivals? OH NOES - ONLY CHELSEA HAVE A CHANCE AT WINNING THE LEAGUE!! Is that it?

Aquos76

jackdaw wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7520773.stm


you'd think he'd be happy with the double last season .. (even though EC was undeserved) ...

Dont be so bitter. How was the European Cup undeserved?

CHD

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

He makes valid points. Say what you want about Fergie, but he's usually spot-on when it comes to talking football.

Are Ballack, Lampard, Drogba, Terry and Carvalho likely to improve this season, considering their age? They came up short last year against a Man Utd team that is getting better by the season. Chelsea could use fresh, young blood in there to revitalise things.

Chelsea could easily have done the double instead on UTD. Chelsea had injuries to key players, Sacked a manager and had Avram Grant fill the biggest boots in football management at the time while being in 7th place.

Show me any other team in the world that could go the distance in 4 competitions and go through what Chelsea did.

I dont think UTD will improve at all tbh and will stuggle a little this year, like drop needless points etc etc. Just because they did the double and have a young team doesnt mean they are gona win everything.

Pressure on UTD this year, imo they wont win the league.

Mr. Presentable

Plainly he sees Chelsea as the most serious contenders and has no respect for Liverpools chances. Reading between the lines (with a lot of imagination) he sees

Chelsea
Man Utd
Arsenal
Someone else possibly Liverpool

So the only pot he has to shi7 in is Chelsea's :pac:

Mr Alan

oh this thread is gonna be fun :rolleyes:

Mitch Connor

Aquos76 wrote: »

Dont be so bitter. How was the European Cup undeserved?

Well, apparently, being the poorer side for 40 minutes of the first 45, and being fairly even for 45 of the remaining 75 (the first 30mins of the second half, Chelsea were better) means they deserved it, clearly. I mean, Lampard hit the bar and Drogba hit the post. It doesn't matter that Carrick and Giggs both had chances they fluffed (at least theirs were on target....)

Mitch Connor

CHD wrote: »

Chelsea could easily have done the double instead on UTD. Chelsea had injuries to key players, Sacked a manager and had Avram Grant fill the biggest boots in football management at the time while being in 7th place.

Show me any other team in the world that could go the distance in 4 competitions and go through what Chelsea did.

I dont think UTD will improve at all tbh and will stuggle a little this year, like drop needless points etc etc. Just because they did the double and have a young team doesnt mean they are gona stroll everything.

4 competitions? Went out of the FA Cup same day as United....

Ronaldo missed the first month of the season through suspension and injury. Hargreaves could only play the odd match. Neville was missing for the entire season. van der Saar missed a number of games. Both Rio and Vidic missed games towards the end of the season. Saha missed pretty much the entire season. Silvestre missed pretty much the entire season. Park missed the first half of the season. Anderson was out for a while with injury.

Yeah.... United had nothing to contend with.:rolleyes:

Mr Alan

nipplenuts wrote: »

Plainly he sees Chelsea as the most serious contenders and has no respect for Liverpools chances. Reading between the lines (with a lot of imagination) he sees

Ferguson wrote:

"I wouldn't write off Liverpool or Arsenal. It has been understated what Arsenal achieved last season."

A lot of imagination is ****ing right. The only point Liverpool is mentioned by him is in the same breath as Arsenal and he says they can challenge-some fans bitterness knows no ends.

Ferguson knows how close things are at the top of the table and that any of the top 4 have the ability to win it this year.

Mitch Connor

No Alan, haven't you read the headlines - Fergie clearly feels Chelsea are over the hill, Scolari is a terrible manager and United will go the season unbeaten. Jeez Al, lets get some context here...

CHD

Im not gona reply to anything else in this thread cos united are obviously amazing and chelsea are gona get relegated or something cause they are over the hill.

Mitch Connor

Who the hell is saying that? You are just trying to get a reaction. Your own interpretation of what Fergie has said, is that, and i'm guessing that is headline driven too. Grow up.

raven136

boswinga,deco and possibly robinhoand kaka,id say old chelsea might just have a chance this year:D

Mitch Connor

raven136 wrote: »

boswinga,deco and possibly robinhoand kaka,id say old chelsea might just have a chance this year:D

To honest, Bosingwa was a big disappointment at Euro2008 - didn't appear to be half the plyer he was hyped up to be.

Robinho isn't going anywhere cause Ronaldo isn't. If Kaka goes, it could well be to Madrid instead of Ronaldo.

As for Deco - it will be interesting to see if he can refind the hunger and desire he used to have. Could turn out to be fantastic, could turn out to be an second Veron. Will be interesting regardless.

Chelsea are definite contenders, and everyone knows it. Media just trying to stir some crap up imo.

BaZmO*

Mr Alan wrote: »

do you think for a second that Ferguson thinks that?:eek:

Of course he doesn't. It was a sarky reply to a sarky comment.

Mr Alan

nipplenuts wrote: »

Plainly he sees Chelsea as the most serious contenders and has no respect for Liverpools chances

nipplenuts wrote: »

Perhaps you'd explain what is meant by this?

My post was in response to you making **** up about his feelings towards Liverpools title chances, despite you saying the total opposite of wat ferguson said.

It was quite clear you point was actually your own feelings-no fergusons as you tried to make out.

hence your bitterness.

nipplenuts wrote: »

Mr Alan, please, just enjoy the debate - no need to get het up over something a newspaper reports.

its not the newspaper report that caught my attention, it was you reporting Ferguson said the exact opposite of wat he actually did say.

And PvtJoker, i hope to god you are joking about the OP deserving a ban.

iregk

On topic. Fergie only sounds out teams that he knows are a threat. Obviously Chelsea are and he has started the show already. The fact that he has started it this early tells me he is more terrified now than he has ever been as he usually keeps this sort of thing until april.

On another point someone made about him and Jose. Plainly good as Fergie is at mind games he was no match at all for Mourinho and he knew it only too well. He hid from Jose and said nothing. It was only post Jose when Grant was in charge that he had a go at Chelsea. I don't think big Phil will take any of this either, I'm very interested in how this lays itself out.

Killme00

Liverpool will put up a serious challenge this year, especially if they get they signings they want (ie Keane and Barry).

All four of the big teams need to hit the ground running this year and keep it going all the way. There is no way we (Utd) or Liverpool, Chelsea or Arseanl can afford to be dropping points to Middlesborough and West Ham. Its gonna be a great season and we should see carnage on the forum. :pac:

Interestingly if things go the other way for Chelsea and Liverpool, there could be early sackings especially considering the meddling clowns that own each club.

Mr. Presentable

Mr Alan wrote: »

My post was in response to you making **** up about his feelings towards Liverpools title chances, despite you saying the total opposite of wat ferguson said.

It was quite clear you point was actually your own feelings-no fergusons as you tried to make out.

hence your bitterness.



its not the newspaper report that caught my attention, it was you reporting Ferguson said the exact opposite of wat he actually did say.

And PvtJoker, i hope to god you are joking about the OP deserving a ban.

Dear Mr Alan
As you may recall, my post was an interpretation of what the article reported. I am as entitled as you are to read and understand - our opinions are of equal weight here - you have no justification for your agrievement. If, as is generally agreed, Mr Ferguson is using psychology on his opponents, then we must be allowed to try to see where he anticipates the competition. And that's what I did. I have no axe to grind with Liverpool FC, if that's what you think.

Regards
nipplenuts

Skud

“You’ll never win anything with kids” - Alan Hansen 19th August 1995

Boggles

Whatever the interpretation of what Ferguson is saying, Uniteds main rivals for the league next year are Chelsea. He is just stirring the pot again like he usually does.

Because of injuries, the olympics and players sold, all four squads in my opinion are weaker than there were last season. The next 3 weeks in the transfer market will give a clear indication of what Arsenal and Liverpool can achieve next season as I think they are both 4 or 5 quality players off a realistic title push.

roryc

jackdaw wrote: »

(even though EC was undeserved) ...

[x] thread fails


lol gotta laugh at the United haters, same on every forum. Some good points made if you avoid the usual ABU bullsh*t. Id say Arsenal, and dare I say SPURS will surprise everyone this year. Ive a bit of money on Spurs making the CL

BRAG: Have 2 season tickets to United for the year

Boggles

roryc wrote: »

SPURS will surprise everyone this year. Ive a bit of money on Spurs making the CL

I was going to have a cheeky bet on them too, the odds are not fantastic thou. Pompey at 20-1 are the value bet.

Pepe LeFrits

Mitch Connor

roryc wrote: »

BRAG: Have 2 season tickets to United for the year

Can I be your friend?:D

MementoMori

Just to get things back on topic - the BBC article.

I wonder if Ferguson is just having a pop accross Scolari's bows to see how he reacts - In all honestly he didnt exactly say anything massively controversial in the article - The important thing in an article like this is to actually look at the quotes as opposed to the spin put on them by the journalist.

"Chelsea are an experienced side and I don't see outstanding progress coming from a team in their 30s. I'm not concerned about Chelsea, I just don't know how far that team has got to go.They have lots of experience and big-game temperament and in a sense Scolari is fortunate, joining a big club with a team of internationals. But it's hard to see where there is going to be an improvement. Maybe they have reached a plateau - although perhaps that's not the right word."

Basically I think he's saying at the moment that he doesn't see much potential for progress within the squad. The thing is there isn't exactly much progress needed with the current squad - they were very successful last year and with a couple of different results could easily have been celebrating a double (Utd fans may not like this - but in terms of what Chelsea achieved and what Utd achieved last season their was only a very slight gap)

Therefore you could argue they don't really need to progress much - in fact there is very little progress for them to make - success in penalty shoot-outs aside:) The other thing is that he has had a look at the Chelsea squad for potential weaknesses and come up with the fact that they are aging. This is true but it's not as if they all developed arthritis over-night.

Where Utd would be said to have the advantage it that in their squad their is a number of younger players who have been progressing in their developement nicely as opposed to Chelsea where it seems as they let other teams develop the players and then buy them as needed - which is fine when you have cash but could provide problematic if Abramhovich ever decides to stop funding things.

When he said I'm not concerned I don't think he actually meant "I don't think Chelsea will win anything this season, their team is over the hill and I can see them being involved in a relegation battle" I think he was saying I'm not worried about Chelsea - "we had the edge over them last year and I think we will have the edge over them this year too"

Which comes to my main bit of analysis - why did he say this? As I said earlier, as an early shot accross the bows of Scolari to see how he reacts to a bit of media warfare. Given Scolari's career I suspect that he has had very little experience in this type of media skirmishing which is one of Fergusion's weapons. Ferguson wants to see how he will react to this, especially given Scolari's temper and the fact his English, while apparently decent, isnt his first language (still requiring the translator). Ferguson knows Wenger and Benitez aren't likely to be ruffled by such a statement but wants to have a little probe to see how Big Phillip reacts. Also if as reported in one paper today, they are considering offering Lampard a five year deal (Maddness in my opinion) maybe it's a way of possibly disrupting this. It also might possibly have an impact on other potential Chelsea recruits considering signing for Chelsea (slight but you never know) However I think the main thing is to see how Scolari reacts.

"I wouldn't write off Liverpool or Arsenal. It has been understated what Arsenal achieved last season. They suffered injuries at a bad time, Arsenal - in February they lost most of their midfield. Who is to say that it would not have been closer if Arsene Wenger had kept his players fit?"

Nothing very controversial here. I'm sure Wenger or Benitez isn't going to be too fussed by what Ferguson says here.

On Rooney : -

"We need to define his role a bit better and I have to take some responsibility for that. I think he has sacrificed himself for the team, which says a lot about the lad because he never complained. We have played him wide and in other positions - he would play at centre-half if we asked him to. He may have benefited from having someone with more experience alongside him, that always happens with young strikers as he was never going to be the finished article at 22. We signed him for his potential, which is why we paid £26m for him. In a few years we'll be saying that is really brilliant business."

This is arguably the most interesting thing in the interview in my opinion - I've thought for a while now that Rooney definately hasn't achieved what he could have in terms of his personal developement because of United's current system. I thought (and feared) there was the possibility that he would become the best striker in the world when he signed for Utd. However this hasn't happened (well at least not yet) because of the system employed by Ferguson and Rooney's willingness to do the unglamorous stuff for the team - the tracking back, the playing out of position etc. I think if Rooney were more selfish or at a team where the whole focus had been about developing him as a striker and the system built around him, he would be a more dangerous player. A bit controversial I know but compare Rooney and Ronaldo's developement over the last four years? Might he have been better off staying at Everton - even for a year or two? In an alternate universe it would be interesting to speculate as to what would have happened if he had joined Liverpool under Benitez or Arsenal under Wenger. Potentially he could be the biggest beneficary if/when C Ronaldo does move.I think Ferguson know he hasnt got the best out of Rooney yet. As against that Rooney is still only 22 so there is definite potential there (to be the best player in the world).

As a final note, just looking at this analysis you could see how the same quotes could easily be spun into an article as "Rooney has failed to deliver on his potential" with "Big Four to remain the same this season - Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal the only real opposition. Teams outside the Top Four not worth a mention " So this morninng's lesson - read the quotes and ignore the spin.:)

On a sort of related bit - until the transfer season finally closes (I cannot wait) it will be tough to guage where the teams are - United could lose Ronaldo, gain Berbatov - Chelsea could lose Lampard and Drogba, sign Robinho, Villa - Arsenal - sell Adebayor, sign Arsahvin -Liverpool sign Keane and Barry sell Alonso. Just mentioned some of the more prominent rumours but clearly there is quite a bit of potential for change there. I also think that potentially there could be quite a few big names on the move close enough to deadline day.

Also think Portsmouth have to be the favourites for fifth over Spurs at the moment considering how prepared Porstmouth look for the season compared to what looks like the traditional anarchy at WHL. However this could well change depending on what else Spurs do in the transfer market.

CHD

roryc wrote: »

[x] thread fails


lol gotta laugh at the United haters, same on every forum. Some good points made if you avoid the usual ABU bullsh*t. Id say Arsenal, and dare I say SPURS will surprise everyone this year. Ive a bit of money on Spurs making the CL

BRAG: Have 2 season tickets to United for the year

I think United deserved the EC, as much as Chelsea but theres no complaints.

I do hate United, but because there good.Im not being a bitter idiot.

Agree with you on Spurs but they need to keep Keane and Berbatov imo.

Loomis

jackdaw wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7520773.stm


you'd think he'd be happy with the double last season .. (even though EC was undeserved) ...

That's very debatable...
Don't agree with the tone of the main issue either

jackdaw

jackdaw wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7520773.stm


you'd think he'd be happy with the double last season .. (even though EC was undeserved) ...

Generally when a team goes unbeaten in winning a competition they deserve it.......:rolleyes:


Still bitter because your jammy equaliser wasnt enough?


Lads I think what SAF was saying was that Scolari coming in isnt going to make them much better THAN THEY ALREADY ARE. People need to learn to read the actual quotes rather than the spin headline that journo's put on these things.

Eire-Dearg

Fergie knows this is gonna be the closest year yet. Liverpool are strenghtening, and Chelsea are spending money as usual. He knows they're not past it, how could you say that after battling them to the last in the league and meeting them in a CL final? If anything Fergie is worried if he loses Ronaldo for whatever amount of money it's gonna be hard to replace the one man show. Liverpool are gaining fast, 5 years Rafa has been at the helm now and it's time to stand and deliver the next title. His "5 year plan" must come into play this year and that will make him more determined than anything to win. Scolari has money to burn, for all we know he bathes in it with Abramovic and 3 over-payed Russian escorts.

Get off it Fergie, this will be his toughest year yet when it comes to competition.

PHB

Ok, all this ****, literally stops this second or you'll all be banned and I won't miss any of you.

pvt.joker - Yellow card for saying he reported the post, which is essentially trolling.
Nobody else gets anything, but lads lets try to keep it on topic.
See Pepe Le Frits post.

PHB

On topic. Fergie only sounds out teams that he knows are a threat. Obviously Chelsea are and he has started the show already. The fact that he has started it this early tells me he is more terrified now than he has ever been as he usually keeps this sort of thing until april.

On another point someone made about him and Jose. Plainly good as Fergie is at mind games he was no match at all for Mourinho and he knew it only too well. He hid from Jose and said nothing. It was only post Jose when Grant was in charge that he had a go at Chelsea. I don't think big Phil will take any of this either, I'm very interested in how this lays itself out.

Actually, I think you'll find that Fergie knew mind games wouldn't work on Mourinho, so he didn't really try.
Scolari to an extent is an unknown entity, so he figures he'll take some little pot shots to see how he responds.
I don't think it tells you anything about how much he is or isn't scared of Chelsea except for the fact he considers them a threat (who doesn't?)

Be interesting to see how Scolari responds to it.

---

Nothing very controversial here. I'm sure Wenger or Benitez isn't going to be too fussed by what Ferguson says here.

There is a sly little dig at Wenger there. He asks why Wenger can't keep his players fit? Not the magical gods who happen to punish Arsenal whenever they lose a match.

----

The idea that Rooney should have stayed at Everton is pretty hilarious.
Last season, in the league, he got 12 goals and 13 assists despite only playing 2100 minutes.
Torres played for 2500 minutes and got 24 goald and 3 assists.
I'm not starting a Rooney vs. Torres debate, but the point is that he was directly involved in 25 goals compared to Torres 27, but in less time.

Everybody talks about how amazing Torres was last season, but people say Rooney was poor. The fact of the matter is, Rooney was poor. His finishing wasn't up to scratch.

But as Fergie says, it didn't help that he played in about 4 different positions throughout the year, and sacrificed himself for the team. That was because we didn't have another striker. He had to lead the line, something he isn't naturally good at.

You can link it with Ronaldo's form if you want, many do. But the real link is about who he plays with up front. Rooney is at his best, when he's played either behind Van Nist or Saha. Since for the majority of the last 2 years he's been playing up there with nobody else, he hasn't been at his 'best'.
He's not a natural finisher, he never will be. But he offers so so so much more than that. If Rooney didn't play, Utd will either draw or lose. He was Utd's most important player last year.

MementoMori

Follow-up blog article by Phil McNulty on BBC on Ferguson's comments.

In general not a fan of McNulty, I think his articles can be rather lazy and he tends to play up any controversy as much as possible, but this is better than his usual efforts.

He also tends to assume quite a lot - the headline "Scolari will ignore Ferguson's old tricks" You don't know this Phil and it's a poor headline for this piece in general. However there are enough assertions and half-assumptions in the article to provoke responses, which I think tends to be McNulty's aim with these blog articles.

Scolari will ignore Ferguson's old tricks
Phil McNulty

Sir Alex Ferguson at least had the decency to let Luiz Felipe Scolari unpack his bags and get his feet under the table at Chelsea's luxurious Cobham training base before trying to get under his skin.

Scolari has probably seen and heard the rather obvious psychological warfare Ferguson tries to inflict upon his fiercest rivals - and to be fair it was not a bad first effort from the old master.

Chelsea, apparently, are creaking a bit. Ferguson does not know how many more miles are left in those ageing Chelsea legs. He does not see where there will be a big improvement this season.

And - for good measure - he is not even sure about Scolari's command of the English language.

You can just see Ferguson sitting behind his desk holding up "Irritate Chelsea" check-list saying: "Yep - that just about covers everything."

They are the first shots of a very phoney war and a salvo Scolari will brush aside, and might even be flattered by.

It is the oldest trick in Ferguson's well-thumbed book and one he only reserves for clubs that might actually cause him some serious bother when the season gets under way.

This is the same sad old deteriorating Chelsea that lost the title to United on the final day of last season, and were just a John Terry penalty kick away from beating them in the Champions League final in Moscow in May.

While it is foolish to pick too many holes in Sir Alex's footballing arguments, one very swift check on the possible first-choice line-ups next season suggests they both average out aged 28.

And while we are at it, as someone who sat 10 feet away from Scolari in his first Chelsea media conference, Sir Alex should know I found his English not just passable, but excellent.

It is all good knockabout stuff - a sure sign that serious Premier League combat is about to start.

It allowed Ferguson to resume some sort of normal service after what should have been a glorious close season, basking in the fantastic achievement of winning the Premier League and Champions League, was over-shadowed by the posturing of Cristiano Ronaldo and Real Madrid.

If United add Dimitar Berbatov, which it is assumed they will, and keep Ronaldo they will have a peerless array of attacking talent.

And Chelsea, as yet, have not pulled off the big headline signing many expected - although it appears Real Madrid's Robinho is lined up to fill that role.

Deco is not a guarantee. He struggled latterly at Barcelona, although he showed glimpses of his class at Euro 2008, while Jose Bosingwa is untested in England.

This is where the Scot's words do carry some substance.

But Ferguson will know, when the mind games are removed from the equation, that he has been presented with a dangerous new adversary in Scolari and that Chelsea will be his most formidable opponents this coming season.

They cannot, and will not, be dismissed or taken lightly.

And this is exactly why Ferguson chose to try and land a few early blows - albeit blows Chelsea will have seen coming from a very long way.

Scolari does not look like the sort of man to back down in the face of Ferguson's challenge, rather like Jose Mourinho before him.

Ferguson will be satisfied to have got his revenge in first by suggesting Chelsea might just be past their peak - but the fact that he chose to try and drive in the stake so early should be a source of satisfaction inside Stamford Bridge.

And I'm sure Scolari's English is up to formulating a suitable reply.

Let battle commence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2008/07/scolari_will_ignore_fergusons.html

Bubs101

MementoMori wrote: »

Basically I think he's saying at the moment that he doesn't see much potential for progress within the squad. The thing is there isn't exactly much progress needed with the current squad - they were very successful last year and with a couple of different results could easily have been celebrating a double (Utd fans may not like this - but in terms of what Chelsea achieved and what Utd achieved last season their was only a very slight gap)

I believe the word you are looking for is treble, we got to the Carling Cup Final as well.

I don't really think what Ferguson said is starting a war at all. It's fairly true. We have Mikel as are only real starlet and Kalou is the only other first teamer who's youngish. They have Anderson, Nani, Rooney, Ronaldo etc. If anything, he just said our players were at are peak. Not that offensive.

Interestingly, I was watching Sky sports news this morning and apparently the average ages of the first teams are really close (helped to no end by VDS)

MementoMori

PHB wrote: »

There is a sly little dig at Wenger there. He asks why Wenger can't keep his players fit? Not the magical gods who happen to punish Arsenal whenever they lose a match.

----

The idea that Rooney should have stayed at Everton is pretty hilarious.
Last season, in the league, he got 12 goals and 13 assists despite only playing 2100 minutes.Torres played for 2500 minutes and got 24 goald and 3 assists. I'm not starting a Rooney vs. Torres debate, but the point is that he was directly involved in 25 goals compared to Torres 27, but in less time.

Everybody talks about how amazing Torres was last season, but people say Rooney was poor. The fact of the matter is, Rooney was poor. His finishing wasn't up to scratch.

But as Fergie says, it didn't help that he played in about 4 different positions throughout the year, and sacrificed himself for the team. That was because we didn't have another striker. He had to lead the line, something he isn't naturally good at.

You can link it with Ronaldo's form if you want, many do. But the real link is about who he plays with up front. Rooney is at his best, when he's played either behind Van Nist or Saha. Since for the majority of the last 2 years he's been playing up there with nobody else, he hasn't been at his 'best'.
He's not a natural finisher, he never will be. But he offers so so so much more than that. If Rooney didn't play, Utd will either draw or lose. He was Utd's most important player last year.

Yeah you probably have a point about the little dig at Wenger but it's really not very controversial.

On the Rooney thing I wasnt saying he should have stayed at Everton long-term - more just wondering would he have developed differently if he had stayed for an extra year or two.

I'm also not saying he had a poor season last year - should probably have been clearer on that - thought he was immense - however my arguement that with his potential he should have developed into one of the top strikers in the world, which it where I thought he was headed for when he joined Utd intiailly. He quite clearly hasnt. His finishing has been poor last season and I wonder why? He's still an excellent player but it just seems a waste of his potential in a sense.

When people say he's not a natural finisher I disagree. Remember the chip against Everton and the debut CL hat-trick? I think he has gone backwards from then in terms of his clinicality (is that a word? ) in terms of his finishing. When you consider his finishing ability then it seems pretty natural. The question is why has this gone from his game? Is is due to being shifted out of position/being moved around or is is something else? Is it something to do with his coaching? Is it just that his (finishing) form was poor last season i.e a case of a stiker having a bad run of you will ? Might well be the fact that there isnt an out-and-out striker for him to play off (maybe that's why Ferguson want Berbatov) as PHB suggested. Anyone think Utd might revert to a more traditional 4-4-2 forsome games next season?
I don't know but I just have the sense that Rooney hasn't managed to achieve his full potential so far at Utd.

In a sense I saw him being in the position of having the kind of season Ronaldo had - bag fulls of goal, player of the season awards, competing for world player of the year, Real making silly money offers for him. I just can't figure out the reason why this hasn't happened. In a sense I'm glad (as a Liverpool fan) but it's just one of those things I don't fully understand.

MementoMori

Bubs101 wrote: »

I believe the word you are looking for is treble, we got to the Carling Cup Final as well.

Yeah sorry;) - was just saying that in the sense Utd's double could quite easily have been Chelsea's double, given the rub of the green. The Carling Cup would have obv made it the treble.

PHB

I think Rooney will push on next year. But to me, there isn't a more important player for United currently (Maybe Rio).

He's not a natural finisher. Rooney worked so incredibly hard at his finishing, to the extent that when he came back from injury, it always took him a little time to find his form.
Rooney is the same. It's something he works on and works on.
At the start of last pre-season, he finished every single chance he got. Went into the season, got suspensions and bookings that really messed up his season.
For him to start scoring 30 goals a season he needs a full season without injuries.

Also United won't change formation at all next year.
Same old 4-2-3-1.

---

Chelsea came close, the CL was down to a peno shootout, but to be honest, we're they ever really in with a decent shot of winning the league? While the last couple of weeks were a bit nervous, Utd always looked like they were going to win.

Dont be at yourself

Ronaldo leaving could be the best thing for Rooney and Man Utd.

People expected the worst when Van Nistelrooy left, but in the end it allowed Man Utd to change their system to suit the whole team.

The current Utd team may not be built around Ronaldo, but there is a definite correlation between Rooney's stunted development and Ronaldo's success in a United shirt. If Rooney was the focal point of the team, I'd expect him to perform much much better than his current level.

5starpool

the bit at the bottom of the guardian article on this is funny i thought.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jul/23/chelsea.manchesterunited

I know you can use stats to suit any argument, and there is no doubt this is somewhat cherry picking, but still funny I think.

Mr.Nice Guy

I don't see anything wrong with Ferguson's comments. Scolari at Chelsea is an unusual turn of events and it remains to be seen whether he will prove successful there. I have my doubts.

People ask him his opinion and when he gives it all hell breaks loose. What do you want, a politicians's answer?

"Why I think ALL TEAMS are a threat." :rolleyes:

PHB

Oh and there's something in the interview people missed:

“I have heard some unbelievable stories,” he said. “Owners asking why their team take bad corners and demanding that they practise them 40 times a day. You are going to get interference more and more, from a manager’s point of view. There’s even an owner who faxes through his club’s line-up to the manager on a Saturday morning. Incredible.”

Faxing a line-up! Who is that gona be

Smegball

PHB wrote: »

Oh and there's something in the interview people missed:



Faxing a line-up! Who is that gona be

I think thats the Hearts chairman he's referring to, could be mistaken though :pac:

OPENROAD

Ferguson and mind games always worth digging this one out, never tire of watching this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW8p8xppxwA&feature=related

gixerfixer

Have to say even as a liverpool fan Ferguson is one of the greatest managers ever and deserves all the credit he gets but what a horrible horrible little pathetic man he is with all his mind games.Sad really as it will tarnish his record in years to come:)

leninbenjamin

gixerfixer wrote: »

Sad really as it will tarnish his record in years to come:)

that post is just nuts. it's his mind games that have made him so effective as a manager? do you think they would have come back that season against Newcastle if he had stayed mum? it's exactly what the good managers do best.

LuckyLloyd

I can understand why Utd fans would pay attention to stuff that Sir Alex Ferguson says and does. But seriously, why do fans of other clubs bother? I couldn't care less what he thinks about Liverpool or any other club for that matter - it's irrelevant.