Architect - Help

escape

Hello I am hoping someone out there can give me some practical advise on this situation.My basic situation is that i have been dealing with an architect to draw up plans - he came looked at the site, he has sketched up one design and put this design on computer so they are ready to proceed to planning permission application stage. Taken him approx 4 months to do this much. when we eventually got designs back - far far far out of our budget, he seems to have got carried away and designed away bigger house then we originally had planned. in fact when i looked at the original brief and sketeches i showed him - the current plans are far removed from this. Since beginning has been issues with him, basic questions i would ask - like about heating etc, he would dismiss them completely, - seems to be no practical thinking in his design at all. Showed plans to builder friend who gave us biggest wake-up call of our lives!! So went back told him not happy to percede with current plans and i gave him up sketches of much simpler design which is definatley in our budget and he called me up - very pissed off attitide that i wasn;t goin with original plans - tried to pressure me into submitting plans to planning anyway and could always scale back design after - told me to build house and then could add on rooms later - crazy stuff. Also he was very annoyed that we talked to builder - said our minds are totally changed since talking to builder - eh Hello we had a reality check!Basicaly i feel i have been taking for a complete mug and i want to get away from him now. Do i walk away at this stage - i am persuming i will have incurred some costs - but people say you should be completely 100% comfortable with architect and i 'm not happy at all. I realise we were naive in the beginning of the process - and obviously he realised that too!Can i ring hm up say thanks for everything but i have changed my mind - whats the damage so far and walk away?

smashey

escape wrote: »

Can i ring hm up say thanks for everything but i have changed my mind - whats the damage so far and walk away?

Yes.

sunnysoutheast

Did you agree a scale of fees in the beginning and the breakdown between planning/working drawings/inspection and management? If so that will indicate the amounts he/she will ask for. If not then you'll have to try and agree a fee based on the time claimed to have been spent so far.

I'd say that if you haven't been able to form a reasonable working relationship at the start you're not going to be able to when the pressure's on during the build.

SSE

sydthebeat

i would agree with the above two posts, walk away now. Agree a figure thats acceptable to both. Cover him for his time, to visit the site, and design the proposal.. perhaps 1 1/2 days max.

escape

Thanks This is helpful - basically i talked to a few people who said once you engage with an architect and they are drawing up plans etc that you were stuck with them - which seems wrong if you are not happy with service.i wanted to put the question out there to see what others thought.Basically the fact that we want to scale things back and go for simpler design (where he doesn't get to flex his creative muscle as much ) seems to have greatly p***ed him off?I suppose my fear is that i will still have huge fees to pay even if i walk away as figure up to 4k to planning stage was mentioned.....why didn't i run at that stage.......

sydthebeat

escape wrote: »

Thanks This is helpful - basically i talked to a few people who said once you engage with an architect and they are drawing up plans etc that you were stuck with them - which seems wrong if you are not happy with service.i wanted to put the question out there to see what others thought.Basically the fact that we want to scale things back and go for simpler design (where he doesn't get to flex his creative muscle as much ) seems to have greatly p***ed him off?I suppose my fear is that i will still have huge fees to pay even if i walk away as figure up to 4k to planning stage was mentioned.....why didn't i run at that stage.......

eh, just to clarify, all he has done so far was furninsh you with 1 draft proposal? yes?

are you now saying that he has prepared a planning application thats either ready to go or already gone in?

sinnerboy

Agree with all the above . replace this chap

take time next time to find some one you can really get along with .

ask for references - speak to former clients

look for sketch designs and be clear - not to be computerised untill you say so
if at first meeting you feel "silly" things like heating ( sarcasm ) are dismissed then don't proceed with the guy/girl

look for a cost breakdown at a min

- to planning
- to selection of builder
- to completion of works

muffler

If he hasn't worked in accordance with your brief and you are uncomfortable with continuing the engagement with him then pull the pin at this stage.

Walk away and get another architect/engineer/technician who will listen to you. You will be liable to pay this guys fee but if he asks you for anything more than a grand then ask him to give you a full itemised bill which you will take to your solicitor.

escape

sydthebeat wrote: »

eh, just to clarify, all he has done so far was furninsh you with 1 draft proposal? yes?

are you now saying that he has prepared a planning application thats either ready to go or already gone in?

we got sketch design then he put this design on computer so it would be ready to apply for planning - if didn't have any changes to make - which we did have - ie the entire thing? As its way too big etc - outside of our budget.If we had said we were happy - he would have sent them for planning permission - but obviously we weren't and so are now waiting for new design based on revised skteches i scribbled up myself. get the impression i'll be left waiting. i'm f***ed i know.

Builderfromhell

I'm a tad confused.
Architects are consultants. Consultation, if used properly, is a very powerful and effective tool to achieve results. He/she should have sat down with you for as long as it took to determine your design needs. He/she should then have furnished you with a few options. Once you had consulted again and agreed sketch proposal the design should have been put on Cad. You then could have fine tuned the proposal prior to preparing PP pack.
If he/she has not done something similar to this then you have not got an Architectural design service'.
After much time you now have a house design which is completly inappropriate. I don't see how you owe anything for what is essentially waste paper.

There are plenty of competent Architects out there who will make every effort to please and accomodate their clients. Why should someone like this be appeased.

sunnysoutheast

escape

I can't help but feel there's a bit more to this than meets the eye. "we got sketch design then he put this design on computer so it would be ready to apply for planning " isn't how it works. I find it difficult to believe that in four months you've never realised that the design was going awry, or had any sort of interim view of it. I find it difficult to believe that you didn't have any discussion around costs etc. before an engagement, or what form that engagement would take - planning only, working drawings or full turnkey service, or put any sort of written contract in place.

I presume your builder friend has shook his head, sucked in air through his teeth and gone "that'll cost ya" and that has given you cold feet, so you've gone back to the architect with a revised smaller brief. How do you know the revised house is within your budget?

It sounds like he's only put together a very draft design before submitting a full planning application so you'll be liable for this at the most. I suggest you follow the other advice here and terminate the engagement without delay and request a settlement figure. If it's higher than a thousand or so then ask for a breakdown in writing of time spent.

Then get a proper engagement in place. Bear in mind you'll probably run into "copyright" issues if you even try to reuse the design.

SSE

Echelle

Although you mention you are dealing with an architect are you sure he/she is one? Or are you dealing with an engineer, technician or other?

RKQ

Hi Escape, I find this interesting and would like more detail. I agree with most of the above, based on the information supplied. I do agree with some of the points raised by Sunnysoutheast.

I feel that all clients must enquire about fees or at least a ball park figure, before retaining an Architect / Engineer / Technician. There is one of two things happening IMO

1. your Architect provided one sketch design, transferred it to CAD believing that you would accept this design and go with it ( without any changes!)
2. Or your Architect was involved in a design process with your, reaching a sketch design after numerous discussions. This was drawn up as most was agreed as part of this evolving design process.

If (1) is true then you met someone who has passed off a design that resembled your original ideas but you had little or no imput into. A fee of 1k would be generous.

If (2) is true then you were involved in a full design service, were scared off by a builder friend and are now trying to get out of it. Full design & Planning fees are due.

I do hope (1) is correct, as this will be alot cheaper on you. If so, change your "architect" and retain the services of a true professional. It is an expensive lessen but far better to learn it now that later on in the build. Always try and have a contract with agreed rates with all professionals, contractors and sub-contractors.

Best of luck!:)

dannyob

Hi,

I would like to advise you as someone who is very experienced in this area. You can just walk away from this person, they have cost you enough in delays and stress. The fact is that due to the delays you will find it harder to get a mortgage now with the current state of the economy. I am curious to what part of the country you are in as I'm from dublin and can advise you briefly around the surrounding counties. But ensure you trust your choice of architect as they will be around for the duration of the planning process and may have to deal with a further information request and possibly certification for your mortgage.

Regards,

Danny