Do you consider people from Northern Ireland Irish??

Reku

dumbyearbook wrote: »

Up until 1969 (not 100% on the year) Irish people could get a Uk passport if they wanted, that did'nt make us British.

Just proving the point that people from NI getting Irish passports has nothing to do with meaning they are Irish. Heck you could buy passports for Sealand at one point, doesn't make you Sealandish.

walrusgumble

ven0m wrote: »

1. I am answerable to the laws of this STATE as a CITIZEN of this state, & a declared citizen of the state, same as the majority of people here.
2. Migrant workers are still that ... migrant workers, some do pay their taxes up there in N.I. as EU citizens as sometimes it works out cheaper to do so, & which they are actually entitled to do as an EU citizen working within EU borders, plus we have a long standing tax/credits agreement with GB dating back to the 1970's, which can & does facilitate this.
3. There are huge sections & established agencies built out of the GFA that exist with the sole purpose of bettering economic investment & co-operation north & south, & the GFA paved the way for this. McGuinness & Paisley spent most of their time on TRADE-MISSIONS abroad....... key word, 'Trade'.
4. People born of Irish parents outside the state are entitled to an Irish passport, so whats you're point. The default passport up there & default citizenship is that of 'Great Britain & Northern Ireland'.


Ireland was a British colony. We became a REPUBLIC in the early part of the 1900's. Northern Ireland remained & still does remain under British rule. They have a devolved government - ergo Devolved British country, the same as Scotland & Wales.

in relation to part 3, sunningdale and the anglo irish agreement 1985 had similar provisions, not to mention all ireland council. what good is having a government when they have no power and seek assistance to effectively deal with the welfare and economic interests of their people. we are a small island, we should trade with each other, maybe it will help get rid of the biggotry and distrust amongst the people, did wonders for france and germany

ven0m

WOW - I zerged a forum topic like crazy!!!!!!! :eek::eek::eek:


I'll respond to said posts once I come back from Metallica (and hopefully not too drunk!!)

guinnessdrinker

farohar wrote: »

Just as if a Frenchman did so or if an Irishman broke the law in America, heck we had that twit being prosecuted for flashing his arse in another country only last year, so this does not prove anything. What is the point here is that people acting on behalf of one country's government cannot freely enter the sovereign territory of another to enact that government's will, the gardai cannot freely enter NI => it's people are not connected to the Irish government, they are under the rule of the British government.

Ok, crossed wires, obviously the Gardai can't freely go to Northern Ireland to carry out their duties as it is outside their jurisdiction but as you know they can still prosecute someone from Northern Ireland if they break the law in the Republic and vice versa. The original point I was trying to make was that as a citizen you are not answerable to the government, the government is answerable to you.

farohar wrote: »

Just proving the point that people from NI getting Irish passports has nothing to do with meaning they are Irish. Heck you could buy passports for Sealand at one point, doesn't make you Sealandish.

People from NI are entitled to hold Irish passports but are also entitled to Irish citizenship as written in the Irish constitution.

dumbyearbook

farohar wrote: »

Just proving the point that people from NI getting Irish passports has nothing to do with meaning they are Irish. Heck you could buy passports for Sealand at one point, doesn't make you Sealandish.

It was only because we were still in the commonwealth at the time.

I mention it because it proves you don't need to live somewhere to be a nationality of that country.

Star20

They are Irish if they were born here...whoever supports British rule is this country should be ashamed of themselves!!

menoscemo

ven0m wrote: »

Nope, they're not Irish. it's clearly a different country,with a different government, currency, tax system etc.

The only Irish people in the world are those born within the 26 counties that constitutes the Republic Of Ireland. Tired of people claiming they're Irish; yanks, brits, aussies etc .... I don't care who they're descended from, but unless they were born in the 26 counties, they ain't Irish.

Little Paddy Barnes just won an Olympic medal for Ireland yesterday, he is from Belfast. So according to you he is not irish? get a grip mate.

I could go on and name many more NI people representing Ireland on a world stage, but I will name Just Three more: Wayne McCullough, Darren Clarke and Eddie Irvine. Do you know what they have in common? They are all from a Unionist/British Background. Like all other Protestants I know who have gone abroad, they realise after leaving our bitter little province that they are in fact as irish as any man from Dublin or cork and are proud to be so. I am very proud of them too and don't consider them any less Irish than me.

People with attitudes like you need to get a grip.

One parting thought: according to your logic the President of this country is not Irsih but British- Get real.

funk-you

Dear God. We live on an island. The whole island is widely accepted to be 'Ireland'. On the island there is a republic consisting of 26 counties and a partitioned 6 counties which is part of the united kingdom of GB & NI.

Inhabitants (who were born on etc...) of the island are referred to as 'Irish'. When political views and citizenship are taken into account it becomes a whole different story of what nationality they are.

One island - one name. Many political views - Many names but this doesn't change the fact that if you're born on the island you are Irish.

-Funk

A Dub in Glasgo

farohar wrote: »

And if you bothered to read the link I supplied as opposed to being too busy scratching your own you'd see that the terms UK and Britain are interchangible within common usage, once more I remind people that Britain is not the same as The Island of Britain, one is a political reference, the other a strictly geographical one. E.g. Many Scots no longer consider themselves part of Britain.

Only interchangeable by those ignorant of the facts or who do not care what terminology they use. Britain and England are interchangeable by some especially in Ireland, does it make it correct?. Sterling and English money is interchangeable by some especially in Ireland, does it make it correct?

I am well aware of the link you posted. NI is not in Britain, it is in the UK.

eoin2nc

I consider nationalists Irish and Unionists British. I collectively consider anyone who lives in the orth to be Northern Irish

Redpunto

Yep as far as I knew, Britain is the small bit, Great Britain is the whole of the island and United Kingdom includes Northern Ireland.

Hagar

farohar wrote: »

And if you bothered to read the link I supplied as opposed to being too busy scratching your own you'd see that the terms UK and Britain are interchangible within common usage

If Northern Ireland is a part of Britain as opposed to a part of the UK why then is it necessary to make the differentiation on the passport itself ie "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"? Surely that means the UK is composed of two distinct parts, firstly Great Britain and secondly Northern Ireland. Or do they just print their passports like that for a laugh?

dumbyearbook

funk-you wrote: »

Dear God. We live on an island. The whole island is widely accepted to be 'Ireland'. On the island there is a republic consisting of 26 counties and a partitioned 6 counties which is part of the united kingdom of GB & NI.

Inhabitants (who were born on etc...) of the island are referred to as 'Irish'. When political views and citizenship are taken into account it becomes a whole different story of what nationality they are.

One island - one name. Many political views - Many names but this doesn't change the fact that if you're born on the island you are Irish.

-Funk

Its up to a person born in the North to decide if they want to be considered Irish or not. They are not Irish by default at all, the whole thing is based on ones political views so to dis-regard them and say everyone born on the island is Irish is inaccurate.

To say if you're born on the Island makes you Irish is'nt correct at all the person must choose which nationality they are. The government since the amend of Article 2 and 3 in 1999 have changed their attitude towards the whole Island of Ireland thing its about the people now rather than a landmass. IMO the general public might stop banging on about the island of Ireland now aswell as its acknowledged in our constitution that the UK hold part of it legally and until the people say otherwise thats how it will stay.

ven0m

menoscemo wrote: »

Little Paddy Barnes just won an Olympic medal for Ireland yesterday, he is from Belfast. So according to you he is not irish? get a grip mate.

I could go on and name many more NI people representing Ireland on a world stage, but I will name Just Three more: Wayne McCullough, Darren Clarke and Eddie Irvine. Do you know what they have in common? They are all from a Unionist/British Background. Like all other Protestants I know who have gone abroad, they realise after leaving our bitter little province that they are in fact as irish as any man from Dublin or cork and are proud to be so. I am very proud of them too and don't consider them any less Irish than me.

People with attitudes like you need to get a grip.

One parting thought: according to your logic the President of this country is not Irsih but British- Get real.

I do not consider them Irish, nor do I recognise 'her'.

Northern Ireland is NOT part of the Republic of Ireland, governed by the elected officials in Dail Eireann, operate within our Finance structures, or otherwise. These are FACTS. deal with it.

As for 'if you're born on this island' - you tell a scot they are British, see how far it gets you, or tell Ian Paisley Jr he is Irish. Some of you have such a very simplistic view that totally disregards facts, cultural implications & socio-economic ones, all of which determine a great deal more than you could ever consider.

I deal in facts, not half assed passionate knee-jerks.

p.s. Eddie Irvine was referred to as British when he won, when he lost - Irish.

Fratton Fred

Redpunto wrote: »

Yep as far as I knew, Britain is the small bit, Great Britain is the whole of the island and United Kingdom includes Northern Ireland.

where's the small bit? none of it is particularly big.:D

Hagar wrote: »

If Northern Ireland is a part of Britain as opposed to a part of the UK why then is it necessary to make the differentiation on the passport itself ie "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"? Surely that means the UK is composed of two distinct parts, firstly Great Britain and secondly Northern Ireland. Or do they just print their passports like that for a laugh?

Did you not know the UK Passport Agency are known for their sense of humour. You should see the photo in mine, I look a right ugly bastard:rolleyes:

ven0m wrote: »

p.s. Eddie Irvine was referred to as British when he won, when he lost - Irish.

People keep saying this, but I'd love to see where and when this has actually happened.

Although Andy Murray is British when he wins and a sweaty when he loses, but he doesn't really deserve the respect of the English people.

gurramok

ven0m wrote: »

I do not consider them Irish, nor do I recognise 'her'.

Northern Ireland is NOT part of the Republic of Ireland, governed by the elected officials in Dail Eireann, operate within our Finance structures, or otherwise. These are FACTS. deal with it.

As for 'if you're born on this island' - you tell a scot they are British, see how far it gets you, or tell Ian Paisley Jr he is Irish. Some of you have such a very simplistic view that totally disregards facts, cultural implications & socio-economic ones, all of which determine a great deal more than you could ever consider.

I deal in facts, not half assed passionate knee-jerks.

p.s. Eddie Irvine was referred to as British when he won, when he lost - Irish.

An artificial boundary created in 1921 does not mean Irish people who live up there are no longer Irish.
If they claim to be Irish and they are indeed, they are as Irish as any Irish person in my book and are welcome to represent this country and its interests.

Fratton Fred

gurramok wrote: »

If they claim to be Irish and they are indeed, they are as Irish as any Irish person in my book and are welcome to represent this country and its interests.

Especially if they have a chance of a medal at the Olympics

gurramok

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Especially if they have a chance of a medal at the Olympics

Yes

Some do represent the UK as they wish. Those that choose to represent Ireland should be cherished and admired by Irish citizens lucky to live here

Terrontress

gurramok wrote: »

Yes

Some do represent the UK as they wish. Those that choose to represent Ireland should be cherished and admired by Irish citizens lucky to live here

There is no UK team. It's GBR or IRL.

faceman

Its funny some of the reasons being put forward here for Northern Ireland's people being Irish and nothing else, are the same reasons the Chinese government uses for classifying people from Tibet as Chinese!

in 1998, the Irish and UK goverment agreed the Belfast agreement:

wrote:

it is the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly [the two governments] confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

(Despite this i will still call them all Nordies!) People choosing to call themselves Irish or British in the north doesnt change the fact they are still all people.

Personally i believe that the Belfast Agreement was one of the great things that came out of NI. It empowered the people to make their own choice.

Fulton Crown

Are they irish ?

Do they like drink ? check
Is there a high degree of Ginger - check
Do they wear grey tracksuits - check
Do they speak in unintelligible accents - check
Do they display complete indifference to road traffic rules - check
Are they into smuggling / tax dodgin an other scams - check
Do they litter everywhere at every opportunity - Check
Do they wear GAA Jersies abroad - check
Are they completely uninterested in personal hygiene - check
Have they never /never ironed a trousers - check

Uh Uh ...yeah - I guess they must be Irish....

adsgirl

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Are they irish ?

Do they like drink ? check
Is there a high degree of Ginger - check
Do they wear grey tracksuits - check
Do they speak in unintelligible accents - check
Do they display complete indifference to road traffic rules - check
Are they into smuggling / tax dodgin an other scams - check
Do they litter everywhere at every opportunity - Check
Do they wear GAA Jersies abroad - check
Are they completely uninterested in personal hygiene - check
Have they never /never ironed a trousers - check

Uh Uh ...yeah - I guess they must be Irish....

No one gave me that check list when I GOT MY IRISH PASSPORT!...
Anyway going by that, list my whole town are Irish..
Well except for the littering, we are a tidy town, Europe said so....

citytillidie

ven0m wrote: »

I do not consider them Irish, nor do I recognise 'her'.

Northern Ireland is NOT part of the Republic of Ireland, governed by the elected officials in Dail Eireann, operate within our Finance structures, or otherwise. These are FACTS. deal with it.

As for 'if you're born on this island' - you tell a scot they are British, see how far it gets you, or tell Ian Paisley Jr he is Irish. Some of you have such a very simplistic view that totally disregards facts, cultural implications & socio-economic ones, all of which determine a great deal more than you could ever consider.

I deal in facts, not half assed passionate knee-jerks.

p.s. Eddie Irvine was referred to as British when he won, when he lost - Irish.

The same with that Canadian boxer oh what do you call him again. Lennox Lewis

citytillidie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Especially if they have a chance of a medal at the Olympics

Reminds of 96 games when Sharon Davis said Michelle Smith was own of our own IE British when she was winning all them Gold Medals and Team GB were doing crap.


Best i heard Samual L Jackson been interview on British TV about a film and been asked by the interviewer what does he think of our actor Colin Farrell and he replied he's Irish is he not. She did not know what to say

Fratton Fred

citytillidie wrote: »

Reminds of 96 games when Sharon Davis said Michelle Smith was own of our own IE British when she was winning all them Gold Medals and Team GB were doing crap.

linkythingy?

citytillidie wrote: »

Best i heard Samual L Jackson been interview on British TV about a film and been asked by the interviewer what does he think of our actor Colin Farrell and he replied he's Irish is he not. She did not know what to say

it was funny I have to admit. However, if she replied that despite being a British tv channel, half of Ireland would be watching therefore she meant "Ours" as in the general people who watched the show, it would have been a very valid reason for her cock up.

gurramok

Terrontress wrote:

There is no UK team. It's GBR or IRL.

Very well then. Some do represent the GBR as they wish.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Are they irish ?

Do they like drink ? check
Is there a high degree of Ginger - check
Do they wear grey tracksuits - check
Do they speak in unintelligible accents - check
Do they display complete indifference to road traffic rules - check
Are they into smuggling / tax dodgin an other scams - check
Do they litter everywhere at every opportunity - Check
Do they wear GAA Jersies abroad - check
Are they completely uninterested in personal hygiene - check
Have they never /never ironed a trousers - check

Uh Uh ...yeah - I guess they must be Irish....

Bordering on racism there

Same applies to other nationalities when you leave out the GAA part

dumbyearbook

There are huge differences between the way it is legally and politically(ie NI people can decide themselves) and how people in the ROI see those from NI,

The two ideas don't work together for some people. The answer to the question posed by the thread is'nt black and white imo its not our place to assert a nationality or otherwise on those in NI.

menoscemo

ven0m wrote: »

I do not consider them Irish, nor do I recognise 'her'.

Northern Ireland is NOT part of the Republic of Ireland, governed by the elected officials in Dail Eireann, operate within our Finance structures, or otherwise. These are FACTS. deal with it.

As for 'if you're born on this island' - you tell a scot they are British, see how far it gets you, or tell Ian Paisley Jr he is Irish. Some of you have such a very simplistic view that totally disregards facts, cultural implications & socio-economic ones, all of which determine a great deal more than you could ever consider.

I deal in facts, not half assed passionate knee-jerks.

p.s. Eddie Irvine was referred to as British when he won, when he lost - Irish.

I am not going to tell anyone what he is, but when someone from the north declares that they are irish I will recognise them as such whether they are protestant, catholic, jew or Muslim I don't care.

As for eddie Irvine being referred as Britsh, yes he drove mostly under a British flag, not through his own choosing but because he had a british motor racing license and the authorities would not him drive under an irish flag because of this (much like your thinking). He made a stand and demanded he be classified as Irish and as far as i remember he actually stood on the podium under a tricolour on at least one occasion. His family were given death threats by the UVF because of this action (because of his unionist background) but he persisted on calling himself irish when interviewed despite this.
So a man like Irvine goes thorugh all this and you have the gall to say you don't recognise him as irish? That is very sad. I for one think he is a hero.

ven0m

menoscemo wrote: »

I am not going to tell anyone what he is, but when someone from the north declares that they are irish I will recognise them as such whether they are protestant, catholic, jew or Muslim I don't care.

As for eddie Irvine being referred as Britsh, yes he drove mostly under a British flag, not through his own choosing but because he had a british motor racing license and the authorities would not him drive under an irish flag because of this (much like your thinking). He made a stand and demanded he be classified as Irish and as far as i remember he actually stood on the podium under a tricolour on at least one occasion. His family were given death threats by the UVF because of this action (because of his unionist background) but he persisted on calling himself irish when interviewed despite this.
So a man like Irvine goes thorugh all this and you have the gall to say you don't recognise him as irish? That is very sad. I for one think he is a hero.

A hero stands by their convictions regardless. I remember seeing that one time he had a tricolor above him. Every other time, it was the union jack.

This thread has little to do with Irvine, but a passing reference (despite him being one of my favorite racing drivers!).

p.s. barrichello drives under a british registered racing license, he's brazilian - same with a good deal many non-european origin drivers, as they started in Britain.


back onto thread now ...


The GFA allowed for self determination for people, that's a good thing for them as it helps with their sense of identity, but I see 'up there' as a part of Britain, & while they pay taxes towards her maj, answer to 10 downing street & operate within the British exchequer, they're British.

If or when the 6 counties become integrated to the Republic AGAIN, I will more than happily call them Irish in the true sense of the word, & be more than up front about it.

Then again, this is just an interweb, with opinions, blustering, trolling etc - it matters little in any case. The only important thing really is the ability of the peoples within the six counties to live their lives in a peaceful environment free from political & religious bigotry & to determine their own path based on what's actually best for them & to hell with everyone else including opinions like mine. They are long overdue a peaceful existence, & whatever you pray to, thank it because they now actually have a chance unlike so many other people in the world.

walrusgumble

menoscemo wrote: »

I am not going to tell anyone what he is, but when someone from the north declares that they are irish I will recognise them as such whether they are protestant, catholic, jew or Muslim I don't care.

As for eddie Irvine being referred as Britsh, yes he drove mostly under a British flag, not through his own choosing but because he had a british motor racing license and the authorities would not him drive under an irish flag because of this (much like your thinking). He made a stand and demanded he be classified as Irish and as far as i remember he actually stood on the podium under a tricolour on at least one occasion. His family were given death threats by the UVF because of this action (because of his unionist background) but he persisted on calling himself irish when interviewed despite this.
So a man like Irvine goes thorugh all this and you have the gall to say you don't recognise him as irish? That is very sad. I for one think he is a hero.

neil lennon and jimmy quinn (guy who scored against the rep in windsor park in 1993 match) are two others who have being seriously threatened because of their insistance to be seen as irish.