Do you consider people from Northern Ireland Irish??

menoscemo

ven0m wrote: »

A hero stands by their convictions regardless. I remember seeing that one time he had a tricolor above him. Every other time, it was the union jack.

If you actually read my post I expalin this. Irvine insisted on a tricolour and the authorities wouldn't allow it as the saw him as british. he even suggested a compromise of a Shamrock on a white background but they would have none of it.

ven0m

menoscemo wrote: »

If you actually read my post I expalin this. Irvine insisted on a tricolour and the authorities wouldn't allow it as the saw him as british. he even suggested a compromise of a Shamrock on a white background but they would have none of it.

Eddie was registered as a British driver with the BRDC who issued his license, therefore he was obliged to race under that nationality, & I do remember the news pieces about his arguments with them & I do believe the short of it was "So, are you saying you wish to make a political statement on the podium, or did you falsify your superlicense application" LOL ...... heck of a choice to answer ...... easier to go with "erm ..... nevermind"

cracking racer, loved his "spongey brake pedal" routine ..... priceless .... what a man, what a legend .....

dlofnep

Amazing how suddenly a group of people who have been seen as Irish for 100's of years, suddenly become not Irish after the creation of an imaginary line.

ven0m

dlofnep wrote: »

Amazing how suddenly a group of people who have been seen as Irish for 100's of years, suddenly become not Irish after the creation of an imaginary line.

North Korea/South Korea

East Germany/West Germany

Czech Republic/Slovakia

China/Tibet

Hong Kong/China

Israel/Palestine

USSR/former constituent break-aways

I can keep going if you like?

Fratton Fred

Kosovo

gurramok

Kosovo involves a separate ethnic group who lived there as Albanian for centuries, not Serbian. Same logic applies to Czechoslovakia, China/Tibet and Israel/Palaestine. They involved separate groups living on a territory.

NI involves the same group of people who have been Irish for centuries, just like the Korean, German, HK/China examples

ven0m

gurramok wrote: »

Kosovo involves a separate ethnic group who lived there as Albanian for centuries, not Serbian. Same logic applies to Czechoslovakia, China/Tibet and Israel/Palaestine. They involved separate groups living on a territory.

NI involves the same group of people who have been Irish for centuries, just like the Korean, German, HK/China examples

Northern Ireland pretty much had it's foundations laid the second it became a stable for English & Scottish settlers.

When the island was divided into 26/6 in the early part of the 1900's, the 'unionists' were a vast majority in the six counties.

History aside, even the constraints of the province are argued. Ulster is defined as including Donegal, Cavan & Monaghan. According to those in the Ian Paisley/Reg Empy camp, Ulster is a six county province, not nine.

Northern Ireland does not contain the same group of people for centuries. The influx of scots & english in the early 1600's, which eventually lead to the formation of the United Kingdom of Ireland & Great Britain steadily, but surely increased the population in the 6 counties now comprising Northern Ireland slowly & steadily more towards being populated by non-irish descendants, which peaked at the 26/6 separation.

Czechoslovakia was formed in 1918 after separating from the Austro-Hungarian empire, until a split based on ethnicity came about in the early 1990's.

Korea/Germany/HK-China is & isn't the same scenario as N.I., as much shorter time frames are involved in those separations, as opposed to the 400+ year separation of this Island.

Fratton Fred

gurramok wrote: »

NI involves the same group of people who have been Irish for centuries, just like the Korean, German, HK/China examples

The Ulster Scots have lived there since the 16th/17th century, probably longer than Albanians have been living in Kosovo. So NI should become part of Scotland right?

it is a difficult one when countries try and split along ethnic lines, how long do you have to be in a place before it becomes yours? Do the Americans have a right to be in the US, what about almost the entire population of South America?

Should Ireland be split up into four provinces again, as it was originally?

worms...can....open:D

ven0m

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The Ulster Scots have lived there since the 16th/17th century, probably longer than Albanians have been living in Kosovo. So NI should become part of Scotland right?

it is a difficult one when countries try and split along ethnic lines, how long do you have to be in a place before it becomes yours? Do the Americans have a right to be in the US, what about almost the entire population of South America?

+1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Should Ireland be split up into four provinces again, as it was originally?

worms...can....open:D

:eek::eek::eek:

won't someone please think of the children!!!!

Hagar

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Should Ireland be split up into four provinces again, as it was originally?

worms...can....open:D

Bigger can required Fred, historically there were five provinces hence the Irish word for province is cúige literally one fifth part. And no, I'm not going to name them for you. Find them out for yourself.

gurramok

I was talking about the last 4 centuries lads

So both of ye are saying 'English & Scottish settlers' who are primarily Unionist these days are not ethnic Irish? (worms...can....open )

Still, the 'original' Irish inhabitants before the settlers came were always Irish till this day if we want to go all the way back to Paddy's era

ewj1978

juvenal wrote: »

Some of the posts here are laughable.

Let's dispel a few myths. . .

- The north of Ireland has no greater incidents of racism or violence or thuggery or antisocial behaviour than what FIFA calls the Republic of Ireland or any other western European country for that matter.

- Saying that people from the north of Ireland are racist, violent, scumbags, or have 'a chip on their shoulder' are ridiculous generalisations, and akin to saying that Dubliners are junkies, Scottish people are tight, Poles are alcoholics or culchies are sheepshaggers etc. They are misleading stereotypes perpetuated by immature philistines who haven't a clue.

- Nationality is a freedom of choice that is guaranteed by Bunreacht na hÉireann (Constitution of Ireland), and also under the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As such, an individual is free to choose their nationality in the unique situation of Northern Ireland.

- It is not my right, nor the right of anyone else to decide someone’s nationality

- A person’s ability to speak a language does not dictate their nationality. Because most of us speak English does that make us English? Give me a break. It’s also ironic that a lot of people in Northern Ireland speak Irish with a greater command than many of their southern brethren. It’s called not taking your culture for granted.

- Irishness is a sense of personal identity. It has nothing to do with your geographical location. Someone from the Aran Islands is no more Irish than someone from Belfast, in the same way that someone from Armagh is no more Irish than someone from Waterford.

- Judging a place on a single visit, or even worse, having never been there, is one of the worst mindsets. The most laughable (if they weren’t so sad and narrowminded) posts are probably from people who have never set foot in Northern Ireland. I remember once a colleague from Cork mentioning in a conversation that she had never been “to the north” and would never go. When I enquired why, she said it was “too dangerous” and “she didn’t like it”. Laughed at. Unfortunately this type of attitude is probably something that is passed down from generation to generation. To these people I say, expand your horizons please. Dublin on a Saturday night is more dangerous.

- "They" are not a different race, and have no different "systems" than anyone else around the country. Look at any high street in Irish cities and you'll see the same shops, the same fashions, and the same music and films advertised. The various accents across the Ulster counties are as different as the accents across Munster, Connaght or Leinster.

- To those of you who consider that everyone from the north of Ireland is British, irrespective of their own personal choice, I suggest you write a nice letter, and address it to:

The resident
Áras an Uachtaráin,
Phoenix Park,
Dublin 8

In it, you might ask the resident what nationality she considers herself. I find it hard to believe that a ‘British’ person, in your words, might be Uachtarán na hÉireann, your head of state.

One of the best responses I've ever seen.... i applaud you fine sir (and yes my response is ****e in comparison)

BTW... I'm a Belfast lad living in Cork most of my life and the prejudice always seemed to come from "friendly" cork people... Never once had trouble in the north with my acquired corkboy accent... even scored a few times cos of it..Those northern Gals sure do love the accent..

Puzzle

To the person who thought the GB olympic team doesn't include NI.. of course it does.

And to the person who said a Scotsman would reject being called British... nonsense, there's many a proud Brit up north.

---

Can someone tell me about the four provinces malarky? Thanks.

Hagar

Puzzle wrote:

And to the person who said a Scotsman would reject being called British... nonsense, there's many a proud Brit up north.

And a great many more who would kick the loose change out of your sporran...


The Four Provinces malarky as you call it...

Connact
Leinster
Munster
Ulster

Puzzle

Thanks. That shows where they are and their names.. I recognise the names, but I'm interested in their significance.

Hagar

Puzzle wrote: »

Thanks. That shows where they are and their names.. I recognise the names, but I'm interested in their significance.

Explain these to me and I might just reciprocate.;) Bedfordshire, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Cambridgeshire, Cheshire, Derbyshire, Gloucestershire, Hampshire, Herefordshire, Hertfordshire, Huntingdonshire, Lancashire, Lincolnshire, Leicestershire, Northamptonshire, Nottinghamshire, Oxfordshire, Shropshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Wiltshire, Worcestershire, Yorkshire.

BTW I do know what the shire bit means.

Terrontress

Puzzle wrote: »

To the person who thought the GB olympic team doesn't include NI.. of course it does.

I said no such thing. I said that there is no UK Olympic team but a Great Britain team and an Ireland team.

I can only assume that the Ireland team is a 32 county team, similar to the rugby team which includes part of the UK and all of the Republic of Ireland.

As for Eddie Irvine, he raced on an Irish racing license as it was cheaper than the British one when he was starting out. As a result he got the tricolour and the death threats associated with it. He made it clear that he did not want the Tricolour nor the Union Flag flown for him but the FIA stated that the official flag of NI is the Union Flag so that was what he got. In no sense did he favour or opt for any of the two flags and anthems. Apparently he said he races for himself and no-one else and couldn't care about a country.

I wish there were more like him.

juvenal

I'm surprised this thread made a comeback with such debate!

ven0m wrote: »

I do not consider them Irish, nor do I recognise 'her'.

You don't recognise the democratically elected head of state on the basis of where she was born :eek:

gurramok wrote: »

Yes

Some do represent the UK as they wish. Those that choose to represent Ireland should be cherished and admired by Irish citizens lucky to live here

Terrontress wrote: »

There is no UK team. It's GBR or IRL.

Athletes from Northern Ireland are free to represent either the GB team or the Irish team as they wish. This is under an agreement between the two Olympic Councils.

The whole Olympic discussion isn't really connected to this topic.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

it was funny I have to admit. However, if she replied that despite being a British tv channel, half of Ireland would be watching therefore she meant "Ours" as in the general people who watched the show, it would have been a very valid reason for her cock up.

Fred, you're usually very reasoned, but this is pushing the bounds a little bit! The reporter was obviously just a bit of a gobshíte

menoscemo wrote: »

I am not going to tell anyone what he is, but when someone from the north declares that they are irish I will recognise them as such whether they are protestant, catholic, jew or Muslim I don't care.

Thank you. People from the north of Ireland have the choice, which is what's most important.

Puzzle wrote: »

To the person who thought the GB olympic team doesn't include NI.. of course it does.

Both Olympic teams include people born and living in Northern Ireland - hence the Olympic team is called Great Britain, not GB & NI. Ergo, as above, that situation isn't really relevant to either side of the argument. Athletes from Northern Ireland have represented Ireland in the Olympics and Northern Ireland in the Commonwealth Games.

Puzzle wrote: »

And to the person who said a Scotsman would reject being called British... nonsense, there's many a proud Brit up north.

Absolutely, I would respect the right of Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish to decide for themselves what they are - be it British, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish, or even Irish.

The OP's question was "Do you consider people from Northern Ireland Irish?"

Venom, Fratton Fred and others don't (please correct me if I'm wrong), and some other members do - don't take is so personally, look at the OP's question. This is an thread about people's opinions, so facts like what currency people use or what laws they abide by doesn't come into it.

No one here has the right to dictate what nationality anyone is. We do however, have a right to say what we regard other people's nationalities to be. I personally think that it is up to the individual, in the case of Northern Ireland, to decide what nationality they see themselves as. Denying anyone that right to decide, it wrong, and also unconstitutional. What we think doesn't really matter, as self-determination is more important.

If someone from Northern Ireland told me they were Irish, I would fully accept that. Conversely, if they told me they were British, I would also accept that.

Richard

faceman wrote: »

Personally i believe that the Belfast Agreement was one of the great things that came out of NI. It empowered the people to make their own choice.

And this is, of course, the whole point. Well done, faceman, this is one of the most sensible comments on Boards.ie in a long time.

getz

i consider we are all the same people but have different goverments . in the uk most people do not realise that the republic is not british . some times it make you think when you see the queens honours list that it includes lots of southern irish born people

ejmaztec

getz wrote: »

i consider we are all the same people but have different goverments . in the uk most people do not realise that the republic is not british . some times it make you think when you see the queens honours list that it includes lots of southern irish born people

On what do you base this off the wall assumption?

getz

it is hard to find airishman or english man who hasent got a brit or irish in the family . i know that in manchester on a survey it was found that one in three had irish family that is a population of 2,500,500 dublin in1986 onle had a population of 1,021,000

AtomicHorror

There's no poll option for me. Some of the people in the north are clearly Irish in terms of their cultural/national identity thingumy. And some are clearly British for said reason. If it was as simple as "they're all" anything then we wouldn't be in this gradually resolving mess.

AtomicHorror

dlofnep wrote: »

Amazing how suddenly a group of people who have been seen as Irish for 100's of years, suddenly become not Irish after the creation of an imaginary line.

To be fair, there wasn't much of a unified Irish identity until we decided we wanted to kick the British out. A lot of the work of developing our modern culture (ie the Gaelic revival) predates partition only by about 100 years ish. Before various invasions prompted us to start standing shoulder to shoulder, about the only thing that unified the Irish was our language. Even that still shows it's history of cultural division.

getz

as a englishman in the uk . i find if you say you are proud to be english you are a racist thats why i tell everyone i am irish with a mank accent

pablomakaveli

As far as im concerned i see northern ireland as a foreign state and nornies as foreigners. im completely against reunification. but i love my country (the irish republic) and am not some pro-british guy. in fact im not alone a lot of people iv asked are against reunifiction or at least are impartial to northern ireland. if anything its better that way because if northern ireland people began seeing themselves as northern irish instead of british or irish things might become a bit better for northern ireland.

Anto McC

I consider them horrible ****'s with chips on their shoulders.

themont85

They are neither Irish nor British in my eyes. For one they're not Brits thats Eng, Scot and Wales(politically anyway-UK of Great Britain and Norn Ire). They're not Irish-Republic. Also they basically have developed a completely different mindset up there to almost everything cos of their past. So basically they're Northereners to me, leppers if you will. I can see the argument that they're Irish rather than British more though.

Havermeyer

Yes.

If they accept my consideration of them being Irish.

bobbysands81

Of course they're Irish, they were born in Ireland.