Do you consider people from Northern Ireland Irish??

ibh

lugha wrote: »

Well some of us down here don’t really want to know all that much about NI anymore than we want to know about what goes on in Scotland or anywhere else. And what thrilled little bunnies some of us would be if some of your politicians up there who have no electoral mandate in the Republic didn’t come down here poking their snouts into our business.

Oh, and I don’t think you added all that much to the sum of the knowledge most of us do have. We kinda had a inkling that some folk up there identified with being British and some with Irish and given that their soccer team draws support (or used to) largely from those with British allegiances then I might have hazarded a guess that some would identify themselves as being Northern Irish.

(A reply to ibh)

i only work here. i dont live here. I deal with about an equal amount of people from North and South every day.

I don't think people need to know all that much about the North. Just don't need to make ignorant statements. If someone knows fcuk all they should keep it to themselves. In general most people up North seem to be trying to mingle together. Especially in the workplace. It's the one activity where you can't really choose to just be with 'your own'.

Most Northern Ireland football fans would be more likely to see themselves as British, hence the number of unioun jacks at Windsor.
Its the more middle of the road types who see some common ground between British and Irishness. David Trimble said he feels both Irish and British, hence Northern Irish. Rugby followers have no problem following 'Ireland', just down the the extremists on both sides.

Doesn't help that in the North, protestants are generally not welcome to play Gaelic football.

For the record i can only name about 4 or 5 politicians up 'here'. And they should keep their noses out of ROI politics. Mostly Shinners i imagine.

m@cc@

The problem with NI is that it's been torn apart by extremists. The majority of people have better things to do than worry about whether NI is British or Irish. It's not something that affects my daily life though I accept that may not have been the case in the past. We're the victims of mis-management on the part of both the Irish and British governments and NI will remain as a scar on history of both countries.
Dublin seems as foreign to me as London and even when I visit down there, my accent is treated with suspicion as though I'm doing some work for the IRA. However, Republicans disgust me as much as loyalists, they are now a cancer holding back the province from progressing. Thankfully, they are very much now yesterdays people. If you look at Belfast, it is slowly but surely recovering and I have to say it is now a city I can be proud of.

lugha

m@cc@ wrote: »

However, Republicans disgust me as much as loyalists, they are now a cancer holding back the province from progressing. Thankfully, they are very much now yesterdays people.

I sincerely hope you are right. Alas, I fear that they never will fully go away you know.

m@cc@

lugha wrote: »

I sincerely hope you are right. Alas, I fear that they never will fully go away you know.

Criminality will always exist under different identities in any society.

darkman2

Funny thing is neither the Irish nor the British want it. Who would? Cut them loose and let the state fall appart. They are spongers on the British taxpayers afterall.


Rarely will you see a story about the economic downturn in Britain in the North because they are not effected because the British subsidise them so much.

mumhaabu

RSF Cill Dara wrote: »

yeah well i think its a disgrace ! the ignorance of mumhaabu post is a joke hes clearly under educated and how anyone one could agree with what he said is beyond me

Hello RSF Cill Dara, first of all may I welcome you to boards.ie and it is good to see more people participating in this forum and your opinions are greatly welcomed and you are perfectly entitled to them.

I am quite a well educated individual and I generally do not show signs of ignorance. However I am willing to engage in open dialogue and lets you discuss why you think my opinion on Northern Ireland in not valid.

Lets have free and open debate and see who is right or wrong about Northern Ireland.

over to you now.

m@cc@

darkman2 wrote: »

Funny thing is neither the Irish nor the British want it. Who would? Cut them loose and let the state fall appart. They are spongers on the British taxpayers afterall.


Rarely will you see a story about the economic downturn in Britain in the North because they are not effected because the British subsidise them so much.

Of course they're spongers. NI is too small to exist as a state on it's own. Plus the violence of the last 40 years makes any kind of investment an unattractive propostion. But things are improving and thankfully the British government is making moves to stimulate the private sector. We're a long way off being self-sufficient but we're improving all the time.
Thankfully even the Unionists have seen the benefits of having all-Ireland partnerships when it comes to trade.
I can't see the British letting NI go any time soon given that why would they when it leaves them with influence on the island.

darkman2

m@cc@ wrote: »

Of course they're spongers. NI is too small to exist as a state on it's own. Plus the violence of the last 40 years makes any kind of investment an unattractive propostion. But things are improving and thankfully the British government is making moves to stimulate the private sector. We're a long way off being self-sufficient but we're improving all the time.
Thankfully even the Unionists have seen the benefits of having all-Ireland partnerships when it comes to trade.
I can't see the British letting NI go any time soon given that why would they when it leaves them with influence on the island.

Well, if its true Britain is facing its worst recession since WW2 - then one wonders how far they are prepared to go today to maintain living standards in Northern Ireland at the expense of other more important UK regions. Remember tiny NI is costing the UK over 7.5 billion pounds annually just to keep it afloat! They may well require some of that money in the not too distant future.

m@cc@

darkman2 wrote: »

Well, if its true Britain is facing its worst recession since WW2 - then one wonders how far they are prepared to go today to maintain living standards in Northern Ireland at the expense of other more important UK regions. Remember tiny NI is costing the UK over 7.5 billion pounds annually just to keep it afloat! They may well require some of that money in the not too distant future.

Yes, but if you've been paying attention to British policy in NI, you'll know that the budget for the public sector is being reduced. Just try getting into the civil service now, it's near impossible as opposed to the gravy train it used to be. There's going to be tough times ahead but we'll be up to the challenge now that we have peace. The will of the people is there.

darkman2

m@cc@ wrote: »

Yes, but if you've been paying attention to British policy in NI, you'll know that the budget for the public sector is being reduced. Just try getting into the civil service now, it's near impossible as opposed to the gravy train it used to be. There's going to be tough times ahead but we'll be up to the challenge now that we have peace. The will of the people is there.

The irony of course is that if the British cull the public service that ultimately makes the North more attrctive to the Republic. ATM it is far from attractive to anyone from an economic point of view. Stalin would be proud of the regime up there thus far. It is changing but very slowly.

m@cc@

darkman2 wrote: »

The irony of course is that if the British cull the public service that ultimately makes the North more attrctive to the Republic. ATM it is far from attractive to anyone from an economic point of view. Stalin would be proud of the regime up there thus far. It is changing but very slowly.

A lot of people have had it cosy and obviously don't want to give that up. Human nature. I wouldn't say it's far from attractive, Belfast has wages that are on average 20% lower than in Dublin (granted it's probably 30% cheaper to live there as well) which makes it a more attractive from a labour point of view now that there's a bit of stability. If you take a walk round Belfast, there's investment everywhere, for God's sake we've IKEA now!

RSF Cill Dara

the_syco wrote: »

Depends. Most of the protestants think they're British, most Catholics think they're Irish. And some Catholics who think they're Irish hate the Irish from the Republic more than the protestants from the North.

I call them all Northern Irish. Like it or lump it, that's where they're based.

the irish up north in no way hate the irish from the south iv alwas got a great and warm welcome whenever im up there. i think i know where your coming from, the Irish republicans(north and south) might dislike west brits (north and south) but they dont hate the irish

RSF Cill Dara

brianthebard wrote: »

Why do you always insist on feeding the trolls?

how am i a troll?

lugha

RSF Cill Dara wrote: »

the Irish republicans(north and south) might dislike west brits (north and south) but they dont hate the irish

How do you define a West Brit?

RSF Cill Dara

mumhaabu wrote: »

Hello RSF Cill Dara, first of all may I welcome you to boards.ie and it is good to see more people participating in this forum and your opinions are greatly welcomed and you are perfectly entitled to them.

I am quite a well educated individual and I generally do not show signs of ignorance. However I am willing to engage in open dialogue and lets you discuss why you think my opinion on Northern Ireland in not valid.

Lets have free and open debate and see who is right or wrong about Northern Ireland.

over to you now.

thanks very much mo chara . i very much disagree with your opinions on Ireland , you are one of the people in Ireland that come under the term west brit but let me explain why, not because you dont support the republican movement but rather the fact you want us all to pick up our shovels and dig 6 counties of Ireland out of the ground and let in float off into the sea and sweep all the injustices inflected on the Irish people in the north under the mat

RSF Cill Dara

lugha wrote: »

How do you define a West Brit?

look at my post above

thelordofcheese

lugha wrote: »

How do you define a West Brit?

"Anyone who doesn't agree with me" i'd imagine.

lugha

RSF Cill Dara wrote: »

look at my post above

So as a citizen of the Irish republic (do you recognise ROI?) who does not consider a united Ireland in the best interests of my country, that would not be sufficient to classify me as a WB?

dlofnep

To me - 'Northern Irish' does not exist. It is a creation in an attempt to normalize the partition of the Island. I personally do not agree with it's partition. Like I said before, it's amazing what an invisible line and a few decades will do with people's views. Unfortunately, many down South have become passive about the North - And why wouldn't they? The Free State has become an economic powerhouse (despite the current 'recession'). Money and comfort will always occupy the mind before facing the reality of our past, present and future. Britain has tried to normalize the state of 'Northern Ireland', but it will never be normalized. It is not feasible and never was going to be, to begin with in the first place.

What I find amusing is that how someone who supports our own freedom and our original war for independence but disregards the Northern part of our country's freedom. Freedom from bigotry, political squabble and downright spite. Right now, it's riddled with bigots from the DUP, who call the shots and veto everything and anything to spite the opposition. Take Acht na Gaeilge for example which is not going to be passed according to the latest commentary - And not because it's not feasible to do so, but because having it passed would halt Britain's attempt to normalize it as a British state. And it's not only that. The DUP have ridiculed the gay community, time and time again. And while I'm not a gay rights activist or anything close, I don't think that they deserve to be ridiculed like that, and under a free Ireland would have much more freedom and certainly wouldn't be accused as being "confused" or anything close to it.. I have no doubt that a free Ireland would not fall victim to the current squabbles up there at the moment, and that all people would have REAL political, social and economic freedom.

lugha

Eight times in your post you used the word freedom. If Ireland were united tomorrow can you tell me who would be free to do what that they are not free to do today?

anonymous_joe

lugha wrote: »

Eight times in your post you used the word freedom. If Ireland were united tomorrow can you tell me who would be free to do what that they are not free to do today?

Pay taxes to us rather than Britain. :P

RSF Cill Dara

thelordofcheese wrote: »

"Anyone who doesn't agree with me" i'd imagine.

not at all a chara

RSF Cill Dara

dlofnep wrote: »

To me - 'Northern Irish' does not exist. It is a creation in an attempt to normalize the partition of the Island. I personally do not agree with it's partition. Like I said before, it's amazing what an invisible line and a few decades will do with people's views. Unfortunately, many down South have become passive about the North - And why wouldn't they? The Free State has become an economic powerhouse (despite the current 'recession'). Money and comfort will always occupy the mind before facing the reality of our past, present and future. Britain has tried to normalize the state of 'Northern Ireland', but it will never be normalized. It is not feasible and never was going to be, to begin with in the first place.

What I find amusing is that how someone who supports our own freedom and our original war for independence but disregards the Northern part of our country's freedom. Freedom from bigotry, political squabble and downright spite. Right now, it's riddled with bigots from the DUP, who call the shots and veto everything and anything to spite the opposition. Take Acht na Gaeilge for example which is not going to be passed according to the latest commentary - And not because it's not feasible to do so, but because having it passed would halt Britain's attempt to normalize it as a British state. And it's not only that. The DUP have ridiculed the gay community, time and time again. And while I'm not a gay rights activist or anything close, I don't think that they deserve to be ridiculed like that, and under a free Ireland would have much more freedom and certainly wouldn't be accused as being "confused" or anything close to it.. I have no doubt that a free Ireland would not fall victim to the current squabbles up there at the moment, and that all people would have REAL political, social and economic freedom.

well said mo chara

iTroll

Toll Trolls sums them lot up quite well IMO.

Sorry if it has been posted already but I could not be arsed reading the whole thread.

thelordofcheese

dlofnep wrote: »

To me - 'Northern Irish' does not exist. It is a creation in an attempt to normalize the partition of the Island. I personally do not agree with it's partition. Like I said before, it's amazing what an invisible line and a few decades will do with people's views. Unfortunately, many down South have become passive about the North - And why wouldn't they? The Free State has become an economic powerhouse (despite the current 'recession'). Money and comfort will always occupy the mind before facing the reality of our past, present and future. Britain has tried to normalize the state of 'Northern Ireland', but it will never be normalized. It is not feasible and never was going to be, to begin with in the first place.

What I find amusing is that how someone who supports our own freedom and our original war for independence but disregards the Northern part of our country's freedom. Freedom from bigotry, political squabble and downright spite. Right now, it's riddled with bigots from the DUP, who call the shots and veto everything and anything to spite the opposition. Take Acht na Gaeilge for example which is not going to be passed according to the latest commentary - And not because it's not feasible to do so, but because having it passed would halt Britain's attempt to normalize it as a British state. And it's not only that. The DUP have ridiculed the gay community, time and time again. And while I'm not a gay rights activist or anything close, I don't think that they deserve to be ridiculed like that, and under a free Ireland would have much more freedom and certainly wouldn't be accused as being "confused" or anything close to it.. I have no doubt that a free Ireland would not fall victim to the current squabbles up there at the moment, and that all people would have REAL political, social and economic freedom.

So if ireland were united tomorrow the DUP would cease to exist and bigotry would vanish from all corners of the island?

Keep on shining you crazy diamond, god loves a dreamer.....

RSF Cill Dara

lugha wrote: »

So as a citizen of the Irish republic (do you recognise ROI?) who does not consider a united Ireland in the best interests of my country, that would not be sufficient to classify me as a WB?

I do not recognise the legitimacy of the Six or 26-County States in Ireland, both of which were created by acts of the British parliament in Westminster as a denial of the wishes of the Irish people. Therefore,I do not give voluntary recognition to either jurisdiction

Hagar

We have to work with what we've got. Ask Gerry.

lugha

RSF Cill Dara wrote: »

I do not recognise the legitimacy of the Six or 26-County States in Ireland, both of which were created by acts of the British parliament in Westminster as a denial of the wishes of the Irish people. Therefore,I do not give voluntary recognition to either jurisdiction

Well presumably you respect democracy? The vast majority of people in the south implicitly give their allegiance to the Irish republic. Does that count for nothing?
Also the vast majority of people on the island of Ireland as well as majorities North and South backed the Good Friday agreement in referenda which recognizes Northern Ireland as British. Surely it is for the Irish to decide the future of Ireland? If not, how do we proceed?

pablomakaveli

RSF Cill Dara wrote: »

I do not recognise the legitimacy of the Six or 26-County States in Ireland, both of which were created by acts of the British parliament in Westminster as a denial of the wishes of the Irish people. Therefore,I do not give voluntary recognition to either jurisdiction

the treaty that led to the creation of the free state later the irish republic and the six counties of northern ireland was accepted by a majority vote in the dail whose members are elected by the people of ireland so what you are saying is incorrect.

mumhaabu

RSF Cill Dara wrote: »

thanks very much mo chara . i very much disagree with your opinions on Ireland , you are one of the people in Ireland that come under the term west brit but let me explain why, not because you dont support the republican movement but rather the fact you want us all to pick up our shovels and dig 6 counties of Ireland out of the ground and let in float off into the sea and sweep all the injustices inflected on the Irish people in the north under the mat

I take offence to being labelled a west Brit, My ancestors fought are were members of the old IRA, to hear the word IRA used today is a mockery to their achievements. The IRA are criminals involved in drugs, fuel laundering and tax evasion. The term "West Brit" usually implies a British Person trying to assimilate into the Irish way of life while still secretly watching reruns of Michael Parkinson on Sky.

I believe strongly in Democracy and the respect and freedom it guarantees. Our Personal liberty is guaranteed with Democracy and we have the right to vote and many other rights this goes back thousands of years to Ancient Greece and the Roman Republic.

The wishes of the people of Northern Ireland must be respected and at the moment the Protestant Unionist demographic are in the majority, even so alot of Catholic Nationalist & Republicans vote Unionist and would not vote in favour of a United Ireland. I would like to see Ireland united and would love to see big Ian Paisley giving Brian Cowen a run for his money in our Parliament.

RSF Cill Dara wrote:

I do not recognise the legitimacy of the Six or 26-County States in Ireland, both of which were created by acts of the British parliament in Westminster as a denial of the wishes of the Irish people. Therefore,I do not give voluntary recognition to either jurisdiction

That it is not true and you know it, The treaty was ratified by the democratically elected Dail Eireann and similary by Westminster and Ireland's House of Commons. It is your personal decision wheter or not to recognise any state.

I also agree with dlofnep (even it sounds contradictory to myself) Northern Ireland is a fabrication yes, however it was created for the Protestant majority that exist in north east Ulster, I believe that the people of Northern Ireland must be given the choice but I believe they will not grasp it despite all we hear. Countys with Nationalist majorities such and Tyrone and Fermanagh should be allowed to enter the Republic of Ireland should they wish and democratically decide to do so.

Violence is not the solution to trouble but peaceful negotiations are and here in the Republic we have enough issues to deal with besides the prospect of all out Civil Conflict in the North should it ever join the ROI. Charles Haughey came close to actually invading NI in the seventies and Ireland would have been blown to atoms if that happened.

Don't label this guy a Troll he is not posting deliberatly to wind people up but is airing his views and is being respectful (I'll shun the West Brit comment as I am thick skinned).

I would like to hear the views of RSF Cill Dara on my opinions of this History and he proposes for Northern Ireland and the ROI likewise.