Do you consider people from Northern Ireland Irish??

Agonist

PrivateEye wrote: »

Plus, it's 2008. Beyond a handfull of 'God Saves...' and 'Chuckys', the North is more or less the same as the South, bar the colour of the postboxes.

I think the hard shoulders are the defining characteristic features of Northern Ireland. That and IKEA.

dumbyearbook

PrivateEye wrote: »

nce 'unionists' (dont use the word Prodestant, sure wasn't Wolfe Tone a prodestant...)

Its 'protestant' so indeed you are correct......

The constitution considers people of the Island as Irish - the rest is to themselves its of no real relevance as to what nationality people in the south consider those in the North if they want a passport they get it if they want to live here they can. ( like the President did! )

m@cc@

Love2love wrote: »

I was going to Newry on Sunday with a few friends from France and they asked about changing over money and needing passports to go over the border. I laughed and said no need and they really couldn't understand why.

I always thought of Northern Ireland to be Ireland, simple as that but they argued that different currency ect.

What do you think? In your view are they Irish, British or Northern Irish??

Well they do need to change their money and 10 years ago they would have needed their passports.

PrivateEye

Its 'protestant' so indeed you are correct......

whoopsadaisy.

--

I'm only 18, and even I remember the craic of going across the border a few years ago. My dad was coming back in 1978, at the height of it- and had a copy of the H-Blocks vinyl with him (The famous protest vinyl, I know Christy Moore was on it along with several other folk acts) Anyway to get back on topic- some English coppers (As in actually English, flown over or whatever) pulled the bus over. they proceeded to go through peoples baggage, which wasn't unusual. So after searching the bus and finding such nasty republican things as posters of Che Guevara to GAA jerseys on various 'taigs' they eventually get to dad. The copper takes the vinyl, calls another copper up to have a look at the 'fenian ****e' and walks off. He then comes back down the bus in his most threatening "I'm a police officer and I can kick the bollocks out of you and get away with it" pose, and goes "Do you want this thing back yeah?" Of course Dad asks for it back. The copper bends the vinyl, obviously trying to break it, and chucks it full force at the ground, before walking off. "Dont waste your 'punts' on such ****e!"

The vinyl still plays today.

Those were crazy times, when it wasn't uncommon for such harrasment to take place, with people merely just travelling to the North to see relatives. The last time we travelled up the same road (now a little less bumpy apparently) we were going to Sainsburys.

Run_to_da_hills

Anyone who speaks of Derry with a northern accent is Irish, anyone who calls it Londonderry is British.

Not too long ago at a bike rally in Co Galway a club had posters up advertising their forthcoming event in "Londonderry" the club was quickly told to remove these posters as they were told that no such place existed in Ireland.

dumbyearbook

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Anyone who speaks of Derry with a northern accent is Irish, anyone who calls it Londonderry is British.

There are lots of people who call it Londonderry that consider themselves 'Northern Irish' not British.

Mweelrea

I would consider the nationalists Irish and the unionists brittish

horrible place, horrible people with chips on their shoulders, bigots, racists, horrible accents, all this springs to mind when I think of the North. If they have an Irish passport and Irish Catholic roots I'd consider them Irish. The rest of them are not "British" as such but "From the UK", as Britain refers to the island of Britain itself.

Says more about you than them, TBH. I lived in the north for over 10 years and my family is from there. You have the bigots and idiots but there are plenty of decent people there like anyone else. I came to Dublin because I was fed up of the north but Dublin just has different problems - the shocking class divide (seems like the majority are either 'posh' or 'scumbags' with very little in between), the blatant snobbery of people who think they're special and important because of daddy's job, the huge drug problem and junkies wandering about the place, it's not like Dublin is exactly utopia either. And as the the 'racist' thing, I find people here even more ignorant and intolerant than up north, tbh. Everywhere has its problems and horrible people. I never thought I'd be defending the north but I get really irritated by attitudes like yours. Some of my best friends are from the north and they're really interesting, down to earth and open minded. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

And to those of you saying Northern Irish people aren't British, you're being pedantic and you're also plain wrong. The passport is a British passport (I have one because I was born in England), and that's what it's called by the guards and everyone else, you write 'British' in the nationality box of official forms, regardless of whether you're Northern Irish or not. Northern Ireland is not considered a country, and Northern Irish is not considered a nationality. If you hold a British passport, you're British. There's no point arguing about why this shouldn't be the case, because that's how it works :rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

dumbyearbook wrote: »

There are lots of people who call it Londonderry that consider themselves 'Northern Irish' not British.

These people are what you would call "Unionists"

Bartronilic

Totally different place. They grew up in Troubles, have english currency, different accents, different road signs, different road numbers, different slang words, different situations (catholic vs protestants), different laws, different circles of friends, different famous radio DJs, different school systems different channels its totally different place. Not english, not Irish, just NORTHERN IRISH.

I'm telling you right now its a totally different place and people who grew up there had a totally different experience of ireland to you or me.

Do you know many Irish people whos lives have been affected by the troubles? No Irish people are more concerned with the recession of the 80s, the change from mass emigration to immigration, the poor infrastructure. In NI people's topics of conversation would be ceasefires, gerrymandering. The truth is most Irish people never gave much of a **** about NI which is sad but true. Two different worlds on one Island. Like Papua New Guinea/Indonesia or Haiti/Dominican Republic.

If anyone calls me ignorant well than that just means Irish people ignorant of NI as many people feel this way. Whenever I go up North i like the change, because it just feels totally different (seeing the road signs, the english shops, the different accents etc).

RiotO

Why do why feel the need to tell people what nationality they are. If they feel Irish, they're Irish. If they feel British they're British.

Steyr

They are British, as far as im concerned i dont want anything to do with them.

Terrontress

Bartronilic wrote: »

Totally different place. They grew up in Troubles, have english currency, different accents, different road signs, different road numbers, different slang words, different situations (catholic vs protestants), different laws, different circles of friends, different famous radio DJs, different school systems different channels its totally different place. Not english, not Irish, just NORTHERN IRISH.

I'm telling you right now its a totally different place and people who grew up there had a totally different experience of ireland to you or me.

Do you know many Irish people whos lives have been affected by the troubles? No Irish people are more concerned with the recession of the 80s, the change from mass emigration to immigration, the poor infrastructure. In NI people's topics of conversation would be ceasefires, gerrymandering. The truth is most Irish people never gave much of a **** about NI which is sad but true. Two different worlds on one Island. Like Papua New Guinea/Indonesia or Haiti/Dominican Republic.

If anyone calls me ignorant well than that just means Irish people ignorant of NI as many people feel this way. Whenever I go up North i like the change, because it just feels totally different (seeing the road signs, the english shops, the different accents etc).

The differences are only there if you go seeking them out and trying to make differences. You see people all over the world striving to find differences in other groups of people. Blacks are different to whites. Muslims are different to Christians. Northsiders are different to Southsiders. It's called bigotry.

The only "English shops" that I believe exist in NI but not in ROI are Sainsburys. Other major English based retailers such as Next, M&S, Top Shop, Tesco, Dixons, Debenhams, Argos can be found all over Ireland.

Radio DJs. Have you never listened to national radio? They all have 0845 numbers for Northern Ireland and vice versa on Radio Ulster. In fact, it is not uncommon for people from Wales to phone Gerry Ryan.

Irish peoples' lives affected by the troubles? When you say affected do you mean the hassle of getting the car searched going over the border or the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

English currency? The Irish currency was the same as the English with different pictures on it. People now in Ireland are growing up with different currency to you. It doesn't make their nationality any different.

The fact is that Northern Ireland has had the same ultimate rulers for a lot longer than the Republic or Ireland. And I'm pretty sure that Dublin was described as Irish and Ireland 100 years ago, when ruled from London.

So if Northern Ireland is still ruled from London and Dublin made the change, perhaps the part of the island governed from Dublin should not be described as Irish.

Terry

Terrontress wrote: »

The differences are only there if you go seeking them out and trying to make differences. You see people all over the world striving to find differences in other groups of people. Blacks are different to whites. Muslims are different to Christians. Northsiders are different to Southsiders. It's called bigotry.

That's not bigotry. It's just plain fact.

Terrontress

Terry wrote: »

That's not bigotry. It's just plain fact.

There is more in the way of similarities than differences.

Terry

Terrontress wrote: »

There is more in the way of similarities than differences.

Of course there is, but it's human nature to look for difference in others.

Terrontress

Terry wrote: »

Of course there is, but it's human nature to look for difference in others.

It's dangerous to highlight it. Especially when it is as tenuous as the post I was quoting.

Wertz

Love2love wrote: »

But there is nobody at the border to check this anyway. Actually where exactly is the border? One minute you are on the M1 and the next you are in Newry, I actually didnt see a border.

Gardaí do have vehicles that sit about on the slip roads in and around the border and regualrly stop coaches/buses and stop taxis and the likes (favoured way to get in if you're a non-EU immigrant)
The border on the M1 is right at the spot where the "No U turns" sign is and where the 70mph sign is (watch out for the police doing speed gun checks here trying to catch people out going from 120kmph to 70mph). On the old roads you can tell where you cross over...there's a noticable difference in the road surface, sound it makes, road conditions etc...used to be that the roads up B the North were better, but lately it's the other way round...

As for the original question? Lived no more than 10 miles from the border all my life, I consider everyone from north of it to be Irish, unless they themselves wish to be thought of as British...I have a good few mates who's families would be from the north originally...to even jokingly suggest that they are or were British would get you dirty looks or worse and rightly so...it's a very tentative issue and it's hard for southerners to understand.
As for the whole passport thing? Not really anything to it....even someone born in the south prior to the 1950's is technically entitled to a British passport should they so wish...but who the f*ck would want to travel willingly on a UK passport after what they've done in the middle east and elsewhere? Irish passport all the way if I had a choice...

Please note: I've not read the most of this thread yet, so apologies if I'm rehashing what someone else posted.

[edit] Bartonrillic's post about sums it up in reality though...it is a different place to both the rest of the UK and the south of this island, like it or like it not...the place and the people have been shaped by the whole political/religious divide...being all PC about it and suggesting that we're all the same is a bit short sighted and possibly naive. Of course we have a lot in common, but it is a different place, take it or leave it...

dumbyearbook

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

These people are what you would call "Unionists"

eh no I would'nt is basically is the answer to that, they'd consider themselves Northern Irish which ok is'nt a nationality but is a normal way of life for people who don't live their lives around the political situation.

I'm not sure if you're aware....but there are lots of people in the north who dont give a monkies about the partition and are protestant who call it Derry who dont consider themselves Unionist!

but who the f*ck would want to travel willingly on a UK passport after what they've done in the middle east and elsewhere?

Yes, all of us British people were a part of that. :rolleyes: FFS, you can be proud of being British without agreeing with the Iraq war or whatever else, it's not like any of us had a say in it! Why on earth should I be ashamed of my passport because of the decisions of a few politicians? Are you ashamed to travel on an Irish passport because of the IRA? Wouldn't you be offended if you were asked if you were a terrorist just because you happened to be Irish? I actually have dual nationality but honest to God, some of the pure hypocritical sh1te spewed by so many Irish people would make me ashamed to be Irish.

Wertz

Fratton Fred wrote: »

that's pretty much how it works, yeah.

Usually its followed up by building an Anglican Church, but I guess they haven't got round to that yet.:D

Aye...too busy looking for oil and gas


[quote=[Deleted User];56675377]Yes, all of us British people were a part of that. :rolleyes: FFS, you can be proud of being British without agreeing with the Iraq war or whatever else, it's not like any of us had a say in it! Why on earth should I be ashamed of my passport because of the decisions of a few politicians? Are you ashamed to travel on an Irish passport because of the IRA? Wouldn't you be offended if you were asked if you were a terrorist just because you happened to be Irish? I actually have dual nationality but honest to God, some of the pure hypocritical sh1te spewed by so many Irish people would make me ashamed to be Irish.[/QUOTE]


Whoah easy there...I'm just saying that in the rare occurence of falling into trouble with locals in some part of the world, I'd prefer to be considered Irish than British.
What has an Irish passport to do with the IRA?
...and BTW I have been with family on holidays in the Uk in the 80's who received a grilling from customs and security services at airports over our Irish passport and addresses...that was life in the 80's though...was I or they offended? Of course we were! I don't see any of what I said to be hypocritical...I'm stating a fact that in far off lands, Irish are considered above British...but in some places we're all western infidels and no-one bothers to look at your passport.
[edit2] ...and I'm not only talking about Iraq, Afghanistan, etc...Britian made a whole world full of enemies over the centuries...seemed to have a knack for it almost.

Whoah easy there...I'm just saying that in the rare occurence of falling into trouble with locals in some part of the world, I'd prefer to be considered Irish than British.
What has an Irish passport to do with the IRA?
...and BTW I have been with family on holidays in the Uk in the 80's who received a grilling from customs and security services at airports over our Irish passport and addresses...that was life in the 80's though...was I or they offended? Of course we were! I don't see any of what I said to be hypocritical...I'm stating a fact that in far off lands, Irish are considered above British...but in some places we're all western infidels and no-one bothers to look at your passport.
[edit2] ...and I'm not only talking about Iraq, Afghanistan, etc...Britian made a whole world full of enemies over the centuries...seemed to have a knack for it almost.
__________________

It was the way it was phrased, as if it were something to be ashamed of.

What has an Irish passport to do with the IRA?

About as much as a British passport has to do with the situation in the Middle East.

There are ignorant people who associate 'Irish' with 'terrorist'. Indeed, when we used to travel as a family in the 90's, my dad, who had an Irish passport, used to get stopped and searched while the rest of us were waved through. Still happens from time to time.

Wertz

[quote=[Deleted User];56675607]It was the way it was phrased, as if it were something to be ashamed of.[/quote]

Okay my fault then...it wasn't meant in that respect at all. No-one should ever have to be ashamed of their nationality.



[quote=[Deleted User];56675607]About as much as a British passport has to do with the situation in the Middle East.

There are ignorant people who associate 'Irish' with 'terrorist'. Indeed, when we used to travel as a family in the 90's, my dad, who had an Irish passport, used to get stopped and searched while the rest of us were waved through. Still happens from time to time.[/QUOTE]

Yup, the nice people at Heathrow kept myself, my mother and her two sisters in one of those interview rooms for about 2 hours (we were on a connecting flight from France) resulting in us missing our flight home...I was about 7, had all my presents and sh*t that I'd wrapped, undone and gone through...as a child I didn't get what was going on, had it expalined to me and then got it, but it certainly had an impact. If I look back now I can say that the security were just doing their job, or I can say that they were doing it cos they didn't like the irish because of all the crap the provos did in the UK....doesn't really matter at the bottom of it all.

Sherifu

I usually forget about them, like the brother we keep in the attic that nobody talks about.

Musha

I'm Irish

In the North, I'm Irish
In Spain, I'm Irish
In France, I'm Irish
In Germany, I'm Irish
In England, Scotland, Wales, I'm Irish
In America, I'm Irish
In any country in the world I have been, I'm Irish.

Why can't some people let me be Irish in Ireland ????
BTW My Hubby's Irish (Southern Born)
My Kids are Irish (Southern Born)


P.S the most northerly point in Ireland is in the South! Go Figure

Pythia

Northern Irish. They aren't the same as people from the South as they have many different systems.

bug

No.

They are a unique alien race.

I have many examples.

Carawaystick

A friend of mine from Inishowen pointed out to me and others one time that he was from northern ireland, after all if he looked out the window of his house at the north atlantic you'ld hit the Shetlands and then keep going til the south pole.
scotland to the east too and canada to the west. and south to North Eastern Ireland.

Frelance

I consider myself irish, was born in enniskillen.

I have both passports, it comes in handy as i look pretty young and i mainly use 1 for ID.
Im pretty surprised by the responses on here. Not all of us have "chips on our shoulders." Id say we have the same proportion of arseholes as the south does. If the euro keeps going from strength to strength then id imagine alot more of you folks will be entering the North to take advantage of the cheaper prices. (2 months ago the store i work in made about 750,000 sterling a week, this week so far were on 1.2 million) If this keeps up then maybe the republics attitude towards us will change.

mise_me_fein

Sherifu wrote: »

I usually forget about them, like the brother we keep in the attic that nobody talks about.

Basically if you know people from the North that think of themselves as Irish you think of all of them as Irish(which I do)

It's sort of ignorance to call "them" northern irish.

Probably coming from people that don't live near the border