Ambulances Speeding with no Emergency Lights On

trotter_inc

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

whether it had lights and sirens on or not would have made no difference. If it was truly a blind bend, then anything coming in the opposite direction would have had no chance to avoid it, lights and sirens or not...

Are you serious? Of course it would have made a difference, the cars it was overtaking could have had the time to pull in a little before they got to the bend!

voxpop

Hanley wrote: »

If I hear the faint noise of an ambulance I check my mirrors to see if I can see it. As it gets louder I check again. This lets me prepare to move out of the way when it's near, if necessary.

+1


Only every saw a problem myself when 2 lines of traffic were stopped at a junctions and the ambulance came tearing up behind. People still managed to get out of the way - only just.

Turner

Maybe maybe maybe....

Nobody knows. Maybe his lights and sirens were broken.

Maybe he has completed an advanced driving course which does include overtaking on blind bends with a continous white line.

Maybe his chips were getting cold :rolleyes::rolleyes:


With regard to overtaking on a blind bend, if you cross over onto the wrong side of the road on a blind bend you would be amazed how far into the bend you can see compared to drivers on the correct side of the road.

Its not part of standard driving courses offered to emergency services but is definitely part of advanced driving courses. Some traffic corps/eru/escort drivers in the gards have it completed. I dont know so cannot say about ambulance drivers.

Marcus.Aurelius

I agree with Chief, advanced driving does teach you how to peek around corners using road positioning, without compromising your safety, stability and manoeuvrability. If the driver is trained, well and good.

cyclopath2001

If I saw an ambulance in my mirror, lights or not, trying to overtake, I'd pull over onto the hard shoulder and let him past, if this was the best thing to do.

I don't think there's any legal rule about having to use the warning lights, just as I believe there may not be a full/automatic dispensation from from all road safety laws.

My understanding is that each time an emergency service vehicle breaks a normal rule, the driver knows he's responsible for the consequences and is relying on the sympathy of a judge if things get litigious.

Paulzx

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

My understanding is that each time an emergency service vehicle breaks a normal rule, the driver knows he's responsible for the consequences and is relying on the sympathy of a judge if things get litigious.

I've posted this before about the legal situation for drivers of emergency vehicles but i'll try and clarify it here as it has cropped up again.

Firstly, emergency service drivers are driving on their own license and can have it endorsed etc. whilst driving under blues.

Emergency drivers under blues are exempt from certain traffic bye laws such as red lights, one way streets etc. However the relevant legislation which i am only quoting from memory say that this is allowable only when it is " safe to do so". Obviously if you break a red light and are invlved in a collision it could be said that it was not " safe to do so" in the first place. The driver cannot be charged with the initial offence i.e breaking the red light but can be charged with dangerous driving etc.

Obviously there is no exemption from serious traffic offences such as drink driving or driving without a license

Supercell

From my days volunteering the "blues and twos" were only allowed when someone was actively being given cardio or other serious stuff in the back of the van, don't think they were allowed en route to an accident though (its been a good few years so may be wrong), which may be why you see ambulances speeding without the lights and sirens going.

I remember thinking at the time it would make more sense to have them on in all situations where it was possible progress may be impeded by traffic and as a result people would be less likely to "freeze" when they hear them.
People should definitely be tested during their driving test like they used to do for emergency breaking..ie tester says now you hear/see an ambulance/fire truck etc..and scores how the driver reacts.

The main reason though for not having them on though is legislature though, if i was in agony at the back of an ambulance I'd like if the blues and twos were on and I was sped to the A&E or whatever ASAP it has to be said.

Turner

There are no rules on putting on lights and sirens. Its at the drivers discretion.

They do not give you any right over any part of the roadway they simply alert people that you are coming.

Silvera

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

Well I think that the question should be more, should any vehicle be overtaking on a blind bend or not tbh?

Emergency or otherwise this is a dangerous (and illegal) thing to do and imo whether it had lights and sirens on or not would have made no difference. If it was truly a blind bend, then anything coming in the opposite direction would have had no chance to avoid it, lights and sirens or not...

Agree 100% !

parsi

voxpop wrote: »

A taxi driver once told me that he wont get out of the way of private ambulances

Do private ambulances answer 999/112 calls or are they just medically equipped taxis moving non-emergency patients ?

Eru

voxpop wrote: »

A taxi driver once told me that he wont get out of the way of private ambulances when the two guys are in the front, whether lights are flashing or not. His logic was that if someone was in the back then the second guy would also be in the back, so two guys in the front means noone in the back and the ambulance is taking the piss.

btw what is an ambulance jeep ?

What an asshole, typical really. People like to assume they know excatly whats going on and can make such calls when really if the vehicle wants to drive faster than you its not a big deal to simple allow them to.

I believe ambulance jeeps are for paramedics to attend certain scenes faster than being in an ambulance.

As for lights and sirens, the rule is not too use them for every emergency but only when its needed to move traffic or id yourself thats why ambulances rarely go from A to B with them constantly on but toggle between on and off as the situation dictates. People are saying they check when they hear a siren but the problem is a lot of people simple slow down or stop when they hear one. Imagine a crossroads where everyone was waiting for the ambulance to come along, it would in fact make it more difficult to get through the junction because no one is moving!

guil

when i was 9 i was in an rta and thrown 18ft and landed onn a metal shore head first, i dunno bout on the way over to the accident but on the way to the hospital the ambulance didnt turn on the sirens till they met heavy congestion at the liffey bridge in newbridge so i guess its up to the driver bout the sirens

BeardyGit

parsi wrote: »

Do private ambulances answer 999/112 calls or are they just medically equipped taxis moving non-emergency patients ?

There's every possibility a simple PTS job (Patient Transport Service) could turn into a blues and twos emergency. What's to say the patient didn't have an MI in the back of the bus?

Don't assume anything when you're looking at emergency services vehicles, either private, voluntary or state.... They might get their bread and butter work from different places, but it's the same public the lads behind the wheel want to serve....

Gil

TheDriver

Not to sound derogatory lads, but believe me you have absolutely no idea what its like to drive with blues on, there are some amount of panicers and total idiots and it is a fairly stressful driving situation. You can drive totally by the book with sirens on at the right time and some idiot of a driver just hammers on the brakes and actually blocks you, also fools tailgating, people listening to radios too loud, jwalkers with ipods on, the list is endless. People feel like they are authorities on the ambulance service but if its your Dad etc in the back, then you forget about them breaking laws and want them to get there quicker. Professionally, a fine balance is achieved.

Tails142

Not to sound derogatory lads, but believe me you have absolutely no idea what its like to drive with blues on, there are some amount of panicers and total idiots and it is a fairly stressful driving situation. You can drive totally by the book with sirens on at the right time and some idiot of a driver just hammers on the brakes and actually blocks you, also fools tailgating, people listening to radios too loud, jwalkers with ipods on, the list is endless. People feel like they are authorities on the ambulance service but if its your Dad etc in the back, then you forget about them breaking laws and want them to get there quicker. Professionally, a fine balance is achieved.

Yeah I saw a boy racer type car following on the bumper of an ambulance through traffic on a standard two lane road, couldnt believe what I was seeing.

I also had a very close call with a 'doctor' who was driving with his green lights flashing on the top of the car. No siren and we were approaching a roundabout on an N-road, he overtakes me on a solid line just before the roundabout, realises theres a traffic island, cuts in as there was another car coming off the roundabout towards him. He then totally loses control of his car, some type of estate and goes into a 360 spin and shoots off the roundabout onto a grass verge. By this stage I've stopped at the yield sign on the roundabout in total disbelief. The doctor gathers hismelf together and speeds off up the road. I was totally shocked to be honest as it was completly reckless of him. Fair play he was in a rush but it was comign up to a roundabout and there was fairly heavy traffic, two or three cars on my left so I couldnt pull over immediately, complete idiot.

dredre

parsi wrote: »

Do private ambulances answer 999/112 calls or are they just medically equipped taxis moving non-emergency patients ?

usually non-emergency work. but privates have been tasked to emergency calls by the HSE in certain areas where there is lack of cover and would also be used as a back up if there was a major emergency.

Balfa

http://www.naemd.org/articles/warningsystems1.htm wrote:

several studies clearly demonstrate that the siren is a severely limited warning device, effective only at very short ranges and very low speeds.

Although they seemed to mainly be examining their use as an aid in speeding through a junction.

Having said that, ambulances here always seem to use their sirens, and I'm always thankful they do. I almost always hear a siren long before any lights can be seen, even at night. I'd much rather have the advanced warning so I can make sure to get my wits about and carefully plan my evasion maneuvers.

One thing I really like over here is that emergency vehichles have an infrared signal or something that traffic lights receive so they can switch their lights green everywhere they go. I hadn't heard of that in Ireland, but maybe I just wasn't paying attention. Do they have that there?

MrPudding

trotter_inc wrote: »

Answer me this: If a ambulance jeep is overtaking a row of cars on a blind bend should it have their lights and sirens on?

My whole point of this thread is that the jeep this morning did not and it was extremely dangerous.

He shouldn’t be driving like this full stop. Whether or not he has the lights on is not really an issue. In the UK, not Ireland I know but probably similar, even the police are not actually allowed to cross solid white lines, even in a pursuit.

As a number of posters have pointed out blues and twos can cause more problems then they solve, and therefore most drivers will only use them where they have to. I am involved with a charity that does emergency out of hours blood delivery. We received a dispensation from the Thames Valley Police giving us the same privileges as ambulance drivers. They are, use blues and twos, treat red lights as a give way and cross traffic islands on the wrong side. No speeding. Ever. As an organisation we took the decision not to use any of these privileges, at least at the moment. The reason being it can be very dangerous. People can react is very strange ways and if there is an accident, as a result of a persons behaviour, the person with the lights on can be held responsible for what happens.

Within our organisation we are hoping to get a training course together in order to teach our riders what they need to know in order to ride with blues and twos. Until then we think it is too dangerous for amateurs. For professionals I would leave it to their discretion to decide whether or not they feel they are required at any point in time during an emergency run. I tend to find they have the lights on all the time on a run, but not the siren?

MrP

Fyr.Fytr

1) Its the drivers and olny the drivers decision as to wether emergency warning equipment is used, full stop.

2) private ambulances are often used tro transport very ill patients from one hospital to the other for life saving treatment, thus medical team travel dr's and nurses mainly so there will be no room for ambualnce attendee in the back so he sits in the front, or they could just be going to pick up a pt from hospital, so as said before the taxi driver is a pillock and lives up to the reputation they have.

3) The wail siren (long one) is used to give people very advanced warning your coming up, it can be heard for miles and miles, then as you approch other vehicles or junctions you switch to one of the shorter tones as A) its different and makes people take notice and b) it sounds more urgent and allows a safer passage past the obsticle. advisable not to leave the siren on the whole time as people become used to it and stop listening.

And yes it should be part of standard driver training what to do if approched by an emergency vehicle with its warning equipment switched on, as said the amount of people who panic and jam on is unreal, keep going until you find a safe place to move out of the way, we dont mind slowing down for a bit its the jamming on becuase someone is panicing in front that does the damage (trust me bruises to prove it from being bounced around )