Change and Eternity...

kelly1

Hello all,

I'm hoping some has the answer to my question and I would expect it has already been answered by some of the great philosophers.

Can something which is subject to change exist eternally?

The "something" which I have in mind is our universe.

Thanks,
Noel.

Joe1919

There is a classical argument goes something like this.
If something changes, then something (e.g. a property or attribute of that thing) must come into being or ceases to be. Something that was not previously there must come into being. There is a change of its essence. He ceases to be what He was before the change. (These arguments often refer to God)

This is why it was generally considered by some that since God is eternal , he is unchanging and therefore cannot change his mind, and therefore praying to God in the hope of changing Gods mind is wrong.

However your question refers to the universe and its worth noteing that eternal has a different meaning to infinity or infinate time. Eternal means 'outside of time'.

Its interesting that this is a very old question you have asked. Heraclitus said 'all is change and you can never step into the same river twice' wheras Parimedes says there is no change.

The Natural philosophers like Epicures believed the atoms were materially unchanging but there shape changed.

Plato believed in a two world theory, one eternal and unchanging (world of forms), the other temperory.(our material world)

It worth noteing that the Greeks generally felt that the world always existed wheras the christians believed in Creation. Saint Augustine famously tried to reconsile these two positions in his 'confessions' Book 11 (XI) where he says there never was a time when the world did not exist because time itself did not exist before the world or universe. (His arguments are famous, even among non-christians & science and his position on time is known as presentism)

kelly1

Thanks Joe. While I am Christian, I'm looking at this from a purely philosophical POV. What I'm trying to get at is whether change implies finite existence in time. So given that the universe is subject to change, is it possible that it could have existed eternally?

My faith tells me this is not the case but I'm wondering if it's theoretically possible.

Joe1919

Although change appears to be inevitable, nevertheless many people feel that the must exist something thats enduring, that has always been (eternal) and continues to exist through change.

Some would argue ,for example, that both space and motion are the only enduring entities http://www.spaceandmotion.com/ ,energy been just a form of motion & matter created from energy (E=MC) .