wimmins

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest I think alot of it has to do with delivery.

Women who are opinionated seem to force their opinions on others more than men who would share equally strongly held opinions. I am fully aware that this sounds sexist but it is certainly my opinion.

This may have to do with women wishing to distinguish themselves from their social equals and men looking to appeal to the common norm amongst their peer group. Labov conducted a study into language shifts in New York in the 1970's that came to this conclusion and I think women do this in other ways also. "Girly girls" tend to do this through a perpetual fashion contest, opinionated women through a need to constantly inform others of said opinions.

I am not saying all opinionated women are bitches by any means. Just that the perception that they are bitches might come by the manner in which they choose to deliver those opinions to the people around them.

I'd agree with this.

In my experience a lot of women who self describe as opinionated or strong etc are either completely dismissive of others opinions or wrapped in insecurity, so over compensate by being opinionated. It comes across for the most part as being defensive. I also wouldnt think of them as bitches tbh. I would tend to feel I'm tolerating them more than engaging with them though. If anyone man or woman kicks off in the early stages of meeting by stating they're opinionated(or intelligent), I pretty much say to myself "oh oh, here we go..".

Dudess wrote:

Yeah... or maybe people simply have a problem with people who have their own mind and aren't sheep-like.

That can be true. I would say that it's easier to catch flies with honey than with vinegar and having an opinion on any matter shouldn't preclude being easy going about it. I've found the more valid an opinion is, the less it needs to be defended. Same with character.

I also agree that being sheep like isn't what everyone goes for. I'm also of the opinion that we're a social animal and everyone is sheep like to some degree or other. To deny that is equally unhelpful.

Having strong opinions is good. Being strong is also good so long as it doesn't affect you or those around you to an unhealthy degree. Then it's not strength. It can be hard to judge, but I have a simple rule; if one person tells you that you smell, you can ignore it, if ten people do, buy soap.

Dragan

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah... or maybe people simply have a problem with people who have their own mind and aren't sheep-like.

Lately i have very much started to reconsider this point. I used to say that same thing but now i just think the people make the decision to follow popular thought and it's not really my place to judge them for it.

At the end of the day the majority of my interests lie outside of the realms of the mainstream from the films i watch to the music i listen to the books i read.

I imagine the "I'm not a sheep" thing originally set in during my teenage years, the whole "striving to be an individual" and being convinced that you were different despite the fact that your mates all looked, acted and sounded a little bit like you.

Maybe it' just because i am getting older now but i made my choices based off my influences and it's silly of me to think that other people didn't do the same and rather took some easy, sheep like option.

I think when people really, REALLY have a problem with someone else is when they upset the "established order" that has already been discussed. With dudes it's easy, you compare a few aspects and everything settles down. I've been through this many times as i would be active in a few social circles and you always get the guys who "dominate" their social scene but still lack security asking you questions, sizing you up against them and eventually ****ing off when they realise you don't give a crap.

"Girls" ( note use of the quotation marks to indicate a very specific type of girl ) seem to decide that they need to do a PR campaign against new people at times, establishing very firmly that THEY do not like someone so if you are their FRIEND then you'd better get on that bandwagon.

It's odd but you simply cannot dominate what doesn't care...so MAJD's words of wisdom once again strike true imo.

Dudess

Dragan wrote: »

Lately i have very much started to reconsider this point. I used to say that same thing but now i just think the people make the decision to follow popular thought and it's not really my place to judge them for it.

At the end of the day the majority of my interests lie outside of the realms of the mainstream from the films i watch to the music i listen to the books i read.

I imagine the "I'm not a sheep" thing originally set in during my teenage years, the whole "striving to be an individual" and being convinced that you were different despite the fact that your mates all looked, acted and sounded a little bit like you.

Maybe it' just because i am getting older now but i made my choices based off my influences and it's silly of me to think that other people didn't do the same and rather took some easy, sheep like option.

Oh I agree - people who think they're individual because of their tastes etc are actually conforming in another sense, but what I object to is people having a problem with someone who has strong opinions and is harming nobody by having them. Why have a problem with that?

Wibbs

Dudess wrote: »

but what I object to is people having a problem with someone who has strong opinions and is harming nobody by having them. Why have a problem with that?

Because often it smacks of oneupmanship or defensiveness. Neither good.

Dragan

Dudess wrote: »

Oh I agree - people who think they're individual because of their tastes etc are actually conforming in another sense, but what I object to is people having a problem with someone who has strong opinions and is harming nobody by having them. Why have a problem with that?

Because they are allowed to i guess. In the same way that we have opinions about everyone and everything they can also have opinions about us and they won't always be flattering either.

Often times i associate a "strong opinion" with having a great passion for something and often times if someone else does not share our passion, or vice versa, it can alienate and annoy people.

Dudess

Dragan wrote: »

Because they are allowed to i guess. In the same way that we have opinions about everyone and everything they can also have opinions about us and they won't always be flattering either.

Oh of course. But again, going back to what MAJD said, that doesn't need to lead to bitchiness, snipes etc.

Dragan

Dudess wrote: »

Oh of course. But again, going back to what MAJD said, that doesn't need to lead to bitchiness, snipes etc.

Sure, it doesn't NEED to.

But it will.

Nearly everytime. Me? I have just accepted the way the system works and go with my own. If i hear someone has been speaking ill of me i will simply ask them why, a valid point will be taken on board, an invalid one will result in the shame of the speaker and all is right with the world.

Just like everything else in life it only happens because someone, somewhere, allows it to. Most people would never call someone in such a manner and i can understand why as most people are not fans of conflict.

Me? I wont cause conflict but i will enjoy it.

Inariably the people who are most likely to bitch and moan about someones are the ones who have yet to meet that person who will call them on it in my experience. Go back far enough and you will find similar behaviour during the younger years as well. The mouthy/bully types who have realised in the grown up world you can't pull that **** so they resort to bitching an moaning and i include both men and women in the catagory.

Nevyn

cuckoo wrote: »

But....while women can be nasty to each other, and men brutish to each other too, i'm more of an observer. I had an epiphany a few years ago, when i realised that nobody else could ever be as tough on me as i am on myself, so while i'll note and remember things other people say, i'm not too overly bothered.

What a well written and astute post Cuckoo.

Personally I avoid the horrors of such social gatherings as much as possible,
thankfully my get together with friends are a lot more informal and a lot more fun. Not that I can't swim in such waters it's just usually far to much effort for not as much fun. Still it can make the family nervous when I have had to attend formal functions they tend to worry I will get bored but I can play 'the game' it but I don't like what it brings out in me and such things are addictive and I would not want to end up like Marquise de Merteuil.

And I would also agree that no one being as tough on me as me and if I am happy with my life then sod them.

Dudess wrote: »

I hate the way if you're an opinionated female, that means you're a bitch.

I disagree, I think the difference is in how you expresses your opinions and the context.

Ok yes there is the pain in the arse double standards of how a 'lady' is ment to behave and types of behaviors in men which are considered acceptable and in women are not, but again I would said it depends on context.

We have come along way from Jane Austen's time when wit and the ability to take part in a robust discussion were seen as failings in a woman but we still have to be careful of being labeled the ball busting bitch.

Again it's how you put across you opinions and tbh if you even bother at all and to take a look at why you are doing so.

As for bitchy people, I agree with Dragan's take on address if possible the matter directly, people don't expect it and it takes the wind out of their sails.

Crumble Froo

Thaedydal wrote: »

Still it can make the family nervous when I have had to attend formal functions they tend to worry

hahahaha, awesome, that sounds exactly like my fella. he likes to say controversial/extreme kinda things, just to get a rise outta people. with family, he'll tone it down a bit, though have to lol at him talking to his really 'straight' brother in law with the massive HD projector and stuff... waits till all his mates are over, and starts talking about how awesome hardcore pr0n would be on that thing, and keeps going into more and more detail till the lads were all shirking in their seats, and me and his sis were pissin ourselves laughing.

oh man, though, rugby at his sister's! i work in preschools, so i could talk about kids. once the conversation went from there though... man, such an awkward silence. drove me to rugby