Short Changed in a busy pub

brightkane

Hey all,

Was in a busy phibsboro bar last nite. Was totally sober, we only went out at 1am short notice to meet some of herselves mates. Went to the bar and got 2 vodkas and a bottle of miller, gave in a 50 (just been to ATM and took out 100, 2 50's).

Bar man comes back asking me what I gave him, I said 50, he said ou didnt, you only gave me 20, I said I know I gave you 50 as its what I had in my wallet. I said theres a camera over the till , check it if you want. He asked me to come back at the end of the night when they float up and check with the bar manager, well he didnt ask me, he told me and rather make a scene i agreed. I did ask for a receit and he said no!

After been put from pillar to post the end end of the night and explaining to every bouncer there that I was waiting for the manager he came up to me. He said they checked the float and it wasnt there, but thats not to say when they check the main float it might turn up, he asked me to ring today at 4pm. I advised him I was sober to which in fairness he agreed and I wasnt givena receit to which I am legally entitled to (i presume so??).

So ringing back at 4pm today to see what result I will get.

Now I was talking to one of herselves mates and told him the crack and he was able to tell me right away what bar man it was, that hes renowned for it and when people are drunk he gets away with it cause they get their drinks, and shove the change in their pockets.

Anyhow will keep you posted, but did anyone else ever come accross this?

Santa Claus

Seeing as the thread in AH was closed here's my post from there :

Being involved in the running of a few pubs, staff short-changing customers is taken just as seriously as staff giving out free pints to mates or just taking money from till (most staff are no longer stupid enough to take money from till as cameras everywhere but a lot still think that giving stock out free to their mates is acceptable).

Camera will most likely show him ringing up and taking change of 50 from till and in between getting to you 30 of it fell into his pocket hence his unwillingness to issue a receipt !

I'd contact the manager and if no joy with him say you'll be raising it with the owner....Owners tend to care a lot about what kind of repuatation their pub has !

sunny2004

Santa Claus wrote: »

Seeing as the thread in AH was closed here's my post from there :

Being involved in the running of a few pubs, staff short-changing customers is taken just as seriously as staff giving out free pints to mates or just taking money from till (most staff are no longer stupid enough to take money from till as cameras everywhere but a lot still think that giving stock out free to their mates is acceptable).

Camera will most likely show him ringing up and taking change of 50 from till and in between getting to you 30 of it fell into his pocket hence his unwillingness to issue a receipt !

I'd contact the manager and if no joy with him say you'll be raising it with the owner....Owners tend to care a lot about what kind of repuatation their pub has !

Sounds like good advice..

Gillo

Happened me years ago in a certain night club in Temple Bar, beware it could happen to you too .

The problem is it's your word against his and chances are you aren't gonna get the money back, stick with it though at least if the manager keeps getting complaints about the same guy something will have to happen.

LolaDub

I had somethng slightly similiar in a pub off grafton st, was charged for cashback on laser but barman never gave it to me. Pub was busy and barman was watching a match between serving so after waiting for ages i went up to the manager who gave it back straight away with an apology. Good Luck with your situation!

msg11

It's totally illegal for him not too issue a receipt.

I fact, they are legally bound too give you one whether or not you want one.

Alarm bells would be ringing here, too be honest with you. Sober or not, you do not have much of a comeback. With no receipt or proof of buy anything.

So its your word against his. You should have caused a scene it would have sorted it out there and then.

This might be a help too you, http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/consumer-protection/consumer-complaints/consumer_complaints

I would tell him you are filling a complaint for not issuing you with a receipt on request. It should put the ****s up him, also this sounds like a badly run scam that would only work on people with a few drinks.

Santa Claus

msg11 wrote: »

It's totally illegal for him not too issue a receipt.

Most pubs and even shops insist staff give out receipts as
A. they're legally obliged too and
B. it discourages staff from not ringing something up on the register and then pocketing the money.

The fact you spoke to the manager means you're not totally without a leg to stand on. If you want to drop me a PM with the name of the pub I can probably tell you who the owner is, and then you can threaten the manager with contacting the owner about it (most manager try not to upset the staff as it gives them an easier life whereas the owners don't want the customers upset).

tbh

how did this work out?

Newaglish

I had a very similar situation before, arrived very late to a nightclub (11 or 12pm) after work and got shortchanged. I had given a €20 and received change of about 50c for two pints - I told him I had given €20 not €10 and my receipt actually said "Cash - €20", to which he claimed he had hit the incorrect button.

He told me to come back at the end of the night and if there was a difference, I would get my money back.

Now, I've worked in both pubs and shops before and never in my life have I seen a till balance. It just doesn't happen - therefore I'd be surprised if it were exactly €10 out. I refused to leave and basically made a scene until he gave me my money. Only now did I cop that he was probably stealing the money and not just stupid as I had originially presumed!

While it's not very polite, I would just make a scene, threaten to speak to the owner and then threaten to call the police (which my sister did on one occasion and also got her money back).

Run_to_da_hills

Back in the old days there was a barman in a dalkey pub notorious for short changing, this was pre camera and receipt days. I learned from then to never hand over large cash unless I mark it i.e. or memorise the last few digits from the serial number. I have caught our a few places quite recent from getting short changed from a score. Watch out at any of these city centre Spar and Centra chains on a busy weekend night.

brightkane

Well finally got the manager today. He said they did the main float and it didnt turn up. I asked him did he check the cameras and he said it was hard to make out but asked me what I bought and where exactly I was standing so he could recheck again.
I said to him I am not accusing anyone of anything but its very clear to me what happened here. He said this had never happened to him in this pub, it did happen in other bars he worked in and they had a protocal to deal with it, but he had none in this bar.

I also said I was legally entitled to a receit and didnt get one and he agreed this should not have happened and he has spoken to the bar man in question about the issuing of receits. I told him its not the money at this stage but the principle of someone thinking that they can do this and get away with it.

So he asked me to leave it with him for a few days and he will call me back once he checks out the till for what I bought and double checked the cameras again. I will give him til friday and i will then ring again.

msg11

brightkane wrote: »

Well finally got the manager today. He said they did the main float and it didnt turn up. I asked him did he check the cameras and he said it was hard to make out but asked me what I bought and where exactly I was standing so he could recheck again.
I said to him I am not accusing anyone of anything but its very clear to me what happened here. He said this had never happened to him in this pub, it did happen in other bars he worked in and they had a protocal to deal with it, but he had none in this bar.

I also said I was legally entitled to a receit and didnt get one and he agreed this should not have happened and he has spoken to the bar man in question about the issuing of receits. I told him its not the money at this stage but the principle of someone thinking that they can do this and get away with it.

So he asked me to leave it with him for a few days and he will call me back once he checks out the till for what I bought and double checked the cameras again. I will give him til friday and i will then ring again.

Mate you been taking for a fool. If I was you I would have been onto consumer affairs about this, it is totally not on. There is protocol in place and its know as giving out a receipt. Simple as.

Big_Mac

msg11 wrote: »

Mate you been taking for a fool. If I was you I would have been onto consumer affairs about this, it is totally not on. There is protocol in place and its know as giving out a receipt. Simple as.

I agree. Find out what action he is taking on Friday and get the money back. If he fobbs you off, go consumer affairs.

brightkane

possibley mate, want to give him the oppertunity to resolve, if he doesnt by friday will see about making a complaint maybe to the consumer agency?

Gillo

brightkane wrote: »

possibley mate, want to give him the oppertunity to resolve, if he doesnt by friday will see about making a complaint maybe to the consumer agency?

Fair point, he has a job to do and is doing it.

rameire

how about ringing the gardai, as its theft

msg11

Gillo wrote: »

Fair point, he has a job to do and is doing it.

I have a job too do also, I do not rip people off in the process.

I would not care as much if he gave a receipt, the fact that he is trying to take advantage of drunking punters. Is bang out of order.

brightkane

msg11, i dont disagree at all with what your saying, i just want to give him the oppertunity to make the situation right, lets hope he does!

Gillo

MSG11, he ie. the manager, is doing his job by investigating the complaint. If he took every complaint about getting short changed at face value as soon as people found out, we'd suddenly all have paid for a glass of water with a 50 euro note and gotten 10 cent change.

msg11

Gillo wrote: »

MSG11, he ie. the manager, is doing his job by investigating the complaint. If he took every complaint about getting short changed at face value as soon as people found out, we'd suddenly all have paid for a glass of water with a 50 euro note and gotten 10 cent change.

Not the case at all. If the management FORCE the staff too give out receipt's to all customers, he would not be in this problem now or in the future.

Look, you can rant on at me all day long the simple fact is the bar/management/barman broke the law, by refusing to give out a receipt. When they HAVE to give you one. I cannot see how you can justify the case of the bar? It's madness. If the barman, has to turn to petty crime like this cause he needs more money, then he/she should be looking for a higher paid job. Not shifting the customers.

I would be able to see where the management are coming from if the customer had actully been giving a receipt.

BTW, water is free (from the tap).

brightkane wrote: »

msg11, i dont disagree at all with what your saying, i just want to give him the oppertunity to make the situation right, lets hope he does!

Brightkane, Fairplay to you for been so tolerant. Although, I don't disagree with the way in which your handling the situation. It's just I feel your been too leant too them, and at the end of the day, if what you say is true; then it's theft.

Please keep me/us updated on this, want too know the out come. Even if you do get your cash back, ask the manager, what's the policy going to be on customers buying thing's are they going to get receipts?

brightkane

Cheers Msg11, i suppose "if" i get my money back i can still lodge a complaint about the non issue of a receit if i wanted. I know theres a few ways the situation could have been handled, but i will just give him the benifit of the doubt for now until he finally tells me no

hussey

This happened to me with An Post before, I kept at them and eventually they gave me my money back out of goodwill.

Pretty much exact same situation except for pub was a post office.

I.e. no receipt. I asked for one, and was told it was lost. Only when I mentioned legal activities (I was going to put a complaint about lack of receipt) they said they would give me a good will gesture.

antoinolachtnai

Where does this right to a receipt come from? There is no general right to a receipt that I know of.

A post office is a different matter. It's An Post's policy (i believe) to issue receipts when they are requested.

antoin.

Repolho

I worked in a busy pub in Dublin while in college. I once had a customer say they gave me 50 and I only gave change of 20. To be honest, I couldn't be sure if they did or didn't so I called the manager. He gave them the 30 on the spot out of goodwill.

I think if its not happening every night of the week, then the pub should probably just give out the money for fear of getting a bad reputation!

For the record, this pub did give out receipts but had no cameras.

As an aside, sometimes its not just a shifty barman to look out for. My friend was in a club in Galway. She was in a round with 2 others. The round was the same all night (3 x vodkas & dash of 7up). She went to the bar (late on in the night) and felt she was short changed. When she checked the receipt it read as follows (roughly, cant remeber exact figures) vodkas 3 * 4.50 = 13.50; Dash; 3 * 0.50 = 1.50. Total = 27.50. The line items on the receipt were right, and the barman gave her the change that was on the receipt but the total was adding up incorrectly:eek:

msg11

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Where does this right to a receipt come from? There is no general right to a receipt that I know of.

There is. You are meant to get one, when you buy anything, why do you think the printer prints them out with every transaction made?

Big companys give them out, small shops give them out if asked.

I learnt this in my training for the company I work for that it is a legal requirement to provide the customer with a receipt. So they know the price, change, who served them, when, what till, alot of information on that piece of paper.

cgarvey

msg11 wrote: »

why do you think the printer prints them out with every transaction made?

That's nothing to do with a legal requirement, or lack thereof. That is down to local policy, and can be turned on or off on any PoS I've seen or written.

ChickCool

thought legally receipts had to be given?

foggy_lad

ChickCool wrote: »

thought legally receipts had to be given?

if you make a purchase or hand over money for a service you are legally entitled to get a receipt for it which should have the date amount paid and description of the goods or service supplied

Run_to_da_hills

I just happened to be in there Nutgrove Motor Tax office to day when this guy was arguying for about 15 minutes over being short changed out of a score. The office was quite cool about it and said he will have to wait until this evenings count before they could drcide about handing him back e20, He would not accept this and wanted his cash back immediately. It almost got physical and was a good show while I waited.

msg11

I have sent an e-mail to clarify the legal status of handing out receipt. cgarvey your local "policy", needs to be clarified a little, the company allows switching off of your printer connected to the till? Why would you need to do this ?

msg11

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding retailers issuing receipts.

There is no specific legislation as to what is required on a receipt, andit is down to the shops own discretion as to how they refer to the productbeing purchased.

There is no legal requirement on a retailer or service provider to providea receipt at the time of transaction. However, a consumer is entitled toask for a receipt and if one is refused they can decide not to go aheadwith the transaction.

Further information on your consumer rights may be accessed on our websiteat www.consumerconnect.ie. We hope you find this information helpful. Kind sincerely,

Maeve Lonergan

National Consumer Agency

So there you have it..