Buying from a friend

suttongun

Hey everybody,

Just wondering whats the situation on buying a shotgun from a friend,

I have a safe and gun already so could I just go to my FO with the serial number and details and apply for a licence for it.

Does he have to drop it into a gun dealer to hang onto it until the licence comes in or can I just collect it from him when i get the licence?

Any info would be great,

Cheers

earthmover

well suttongun.what you have to do is get you mate to give you a letter saying you are buying this gun off him and make sure he puts on it the make ,model and the serial number,and then give it to your FO and wait,your FO will do the rest of the paper work,usually it takes about 4 to 5 weeks before its passed.

jwshooter

suttongun wrote: »

Hey everybody,

Just wondering whats the situation on buying a shotgun from a friend,

I have a safe and gun already so could I just go to my FO with the serial number and details and apply for a licence for it.

Does he have to drop it into a gun dealer to hang onto it until the licence comes in or can I just collect it from him when i get the licence?

Any info would be great,

Cheers

suttongun ,your friend will have to hand the firearm into a RFD they will give him a surrender note and the RFD will then in turn give you a note for your local garda station to apply for a licence for sed firearm

clivej

jwshooter wrote: »

suttongun ,your friend will have to hand the firearm into a RFD they will give him a surrender note and the RFD will then in turn give you a note for your local garda station to apply for a licence for sed firearm

Not so.

Do as earthmover says. As long as your friend is the current licensed owner he can still keep his gun at his house. Get a letter of change of ownership and all the gun details and produce this to your local FO who will do the rest. Also bring any gun club membership details or permissions to shoot along as well.

dresden8

clivej wrote: »

Not so.

Do as earthmover says. As long as your friend is the current licensed owner he can still keep his gun at his house. Get a letter of change of ownership and all the gun details and produce this to your local FO who will do the rest. Also bring any gun club membership details or permissions to shoot along as well.

I had to leave my firearm into a gunshop before the Guards would hand out a cert to the new owner. As everthing in this life, it depends on the Garda.

jwshooter

clivej wrote: »

Not so.

Do as earthmover says. As long as your friend is the current licensed owner he can still keep his gun at his house. Get a letter of change of ownership and all the gun details and produce this to your local FO who will do the rest. Also bring any gun club membership details or permissions to shoot along as well.

where did you get you information from .if your selling a firearm you have to surrender it in to a RFD so your licence can be amended also buyer will have to get relevant paper work from a RFD ,and what is a letter of change

.243

jwshooter wrote: »

where did you get you information from .if your selling a firearm you have to surrender it in to a RFD so your licence can be amended also buyer will have to get relevant paper work from a RFD ,and what is a letter of change

yes jw but thats only if he is surrendering his current firearm for his friends one,if he is buying it outright and applying for a 2nd shotgun licence it doesent have to be surrendered to a rfd because it is already in the hands of a licence holder.

maybe the op could clear the air on this

jwshooter

.243 wrote: »

yes jw but thats only if he is surrendering his current firearm for his friends one,if he is buying it outright and applying for a 2nd shotgun licence it doesent have to be surrendered to a rfd because it is already in the hands of a licence holder.

maybe the op could clear the air on this

if your selling a firearm you have to leave it into a RFD regaurdless of who is buying it ,if your getting a new firearm only a RFD can wright a note for it ,thing you should read the first post again

.243

jwshooter wrote: »

if your selling a firearm you have to leave it into a RFD regaurdless of who is buying it ,if your getting a new firearm only a RFD can wright a note for it ,thing you should read the first post again

i did,and im giving my advice from previous experience on the matter,just because what you say doesnt always apply

clivej

jwshooter wrote: »

if your selling a firearm you have to leave it into a RFD regaurdless of who is buying it ,if your getting a new firearm only a RFD can wright a note for it ,thing you should read the first post again

Again NOT SO.

I was sold my shotgun to me by a farmer who was the current owner of the shotgun.
I went to my FO here in Kilkenny and she told me to just get a letter from the current owner to say that he was selling me his gun. Did just that and got permission to shoot the farmers land at the same time. And this was when the Super here in KK was not good to give out gun licenses
After waiting 12 weeks my license came through and I just showed it to the farmer gave him the €250 for the Mossberg 88 pump action and he gave me the gun.

ALL TRUE
CliveJ.........

dresden8

clivej wrote: »

Again NOT SO.

I was sold my shotgun to me by a farmer who was the current owner of the shotgun.
I went to my FO here in Kilkenny and she told me to just get a letter from the current owner to say that he was selling me his gun. Did just that and got permission to shoot the farmers land at the same time. And this was when the Super here in KK was not good to give out gun licenses
After waiting 12 weeks my license came through and I just showed it to the farmer gave him the €250 for the Mossberg 88 pump action and he gave me the gun.

ALL TRUE
CliveJ.........

Again, I HAD TO

ALL TRUE

clivej

dresden8 wrote: »

Again, I HAD TO

ALL TRUE

Horse's for courses so they say

rrpc

The situation is as clivej says. You do not have to hand it in to an RFD if you're selling it. A lot of people do because it's handier and also if they are replacing the firearm and don't want to have another licence or the FO says they can't have another licence.

I have seen many transactions where the firearm went directly from one licence holder to another without ever seeing an RFD.

You could also have a situation where both holders have a licence on the same firearm and that's also done by means of a letter from the original licence holder.

There is nothing in the firearams act stipulating that you must buy a firearm from an RFD.

suttongun

Thanks lads,

I'll get a letter off of him saying he is selling and the details of the gun.

It would be much handier not having to go to a RFD,

Cheers

cavan shooter

This debate has been going on for years.

The fact is there is a bit of Limbo in relation to the time the firearm cert is issued to the buyer and the time it is collected from the seller.

During this time the guy who is selling the firearm is not licensed to have this firearm in his possession, i.e he has an unlicensed firearm in his possession. Everything is Hunky Dory, until something happens.

To avoid any issues and to stay completly within the Law, some people leave the Firearm in with the RFD. (it makes sence)

rrpc

cavan shooter wrote: »

This debate has been going on for years.

The fact is there is a bit of Limbo in relation to the time the firearm cert is issued to the buyer and the time it is collected from the seller.

During this time the guy who is selling the firearm is not licensed to have this firearm in his possession, i.e he has an unlicensed firearm in his possession. Everything is Hunky Dory, until something happens.

That's not correct. The only time the seller is not licensed is when his licence is expired and he's not renewing it, or as I pointed out earlier he's replacing the sold firearm with another one and on substitution he no longer has a cert for the one he's selling.

Two people can have certs for the same firearm at the same time. Nothing I have recommended entails breaking the law and I would never advocate such a course of action to anyone.

Please choose your words more carefully

cavan shooter

rrpc wrote: »

That's not correct. The only time the seller is not licensed is when his licence is expired and he's not renewing it, or as I pointed out earlier he's replacing the sold firearm with another one and on substitution he no longer has a cert for the one he's selling.

Two people can have certs for the same firearm at the same time. Nothing I have recommended entails breaking the law and I would never advocate such a course of action to anyone.

Please choose your words more carefully

rrrpc
where have I said you were advocating breaking the law in my reply, all I said was that There is Limbo in the sale process?

From the time the seller is scratched from being the official licensee to the time the new license holder picks up the firearm, it could be days or it could be weeks, it's not like a change of firearm where the FO puts a line through the old one and initials -done immediately! There is in this case a full application to be applied for.

As for dual license I had one for years with my Fathers shotgun, all I had to do was to obtain a letter stating that he consented to me using the shot gun, if someone wanted to go down that road I'm sure there would be no hassel.

rrpc

cavan shooter wrote: »

rrrpc
where have I said you were advocating breaking the law in my reply, all I said was that There is Limbo in the sale process?

Here, because I said that it was fine to transfer a firearm from one person to another without an RFD involved

During this time the guy who is selling the firearm is not licensed to have this firearm in his possession, i.e he has an unlicensed firearm in his possession. Everything is Hunky Dory, until something happens.

To avoid any issues and to stay completly within the Law, some people leave the Firearm in with the RFD

There are no issues, this is done all the time and it's done completely within the law.

From the time the seller is scratched from being the official licensee to the time the new license holder picks up the firearm, it could be days or it could be weeks,

The seller is not scratched from being an official licensee until he requests it or the 31st July intervenes. There is no such scratching at any stage by any means except the former and saying it is implying that I've recommended a course of action contrary with the law, which I have most emphatically not done.

it's not like a change of firearm where the FO puts a line through the old one and initials -done immediately!

No it's not, so why bring it up?

I'll explain how it works and you tell me where the limbo is.

31st January 200X: I sell my rifle to Sparks. Sparks applies for a licence for it with a letter from me stating make, model and serial no. I continue to hold a licence for said rifle expiring on 31st July 200X.

28th February 200X: Sparks gets his licence, turns up on my doorstep with a wad of readies his licence (with a copy for me) and departs a happy man. I continue to hold a licence for said rifle expiring on 31st July 200X.

scenario (a): I march (wallet bulging) down to my local and show Sparks' copy licence to the FO and ask for mine to be struck off, he duly does so.

scenario (b): as above, but instead I show bill of sale for new rifle and ask for old one to be changed.

No limbo, no problem.

cavan shooter

I'll agree to disagree,

But rrpc going down that route of explanation you are now licensed for a period of time for a firearm you do not have control over.

It's pity offence was taken when none was intended?.

It wasn't me!

cavan shooter wrote: »

But rrpc going down that route of explanation you are now licensed for a period of time for a firearm you do not have control over.

But so is the person who does have control over it, so I don't see the problem? Surely the same applied when you had a licence for your dad's shotgun and went out shooting without him? Seems analogous to me.

IRLConor

cavan shooter wrote: »

But rrpc going down that route of explanation you are now licensed for a period of time for a firearm you do not have control over.

Being licensed for a firearm you don't control is OK (waste of money, that's all).

Having control over a firearm you're not licensed for is the only thing you have to worry about.

cavan shooter

He wouldn't let me out with it till I had the licence.

It wasn't me!

cavan shooter wrote: »

He wouldn't let me out with it till I had the licence.

But when you had it, presumably he still had his own licence as well? What's the difference?

cavan shooter

IRLConor wrote: »

Being licensed for a firearm you don't control is OK (waste of money, that's all).

Having control over a firearm you're not licensed for is the only thing you have to worry about.

Good point, depends on who is buying it, relative, friend or stranger you've not met before.

I think I'd prefer once I parted Company with the firearm, not to be responsible for it. Probabally a control freak:)

It wasn't me!

You're not responsible for it though; the other guy still has a licence for it.

cavan shooter

I see where your coming from, maybe I'm over cautious, and like a clean break when a relationship breaks down:D

rrpc

cavan shooter wrote: »

I'll agree to disagree,

But rrpc going down that route of explanation you are now licensed for a period of time for a firearm you do not have control over.

It's not like insuring a car someone else is driving, you can't be held responsible for something another licence holder does with their legally held firearm just because you have a licence for it too.

A licence does not imply ownership, the same as having a car registered in your name does not mean you own it.

I also pointed out a scenario where your licence can be ended when the purchaser takes the firearm into their possession.

It's pity offence was taken when none was intended?.

You implied that I was encouraging people to break the law. This is a public forum and what you say is written down and archived for the future. I felt obliged to immediately and categorically refute that implication and put the record straight.

I accept that it was not your intention, but that's not how it read which is why I responded so emphatically. I hope that the matter can rest there.

cavan shooter

No problem