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Is a farmer entitled to shoot my dogs?

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24

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    #32
    chickenhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭chickenhawk


    Kess73 wrote: »
    I'm sorry but that is rubbish. If a farmer were do to that and claim it was a mistake, he would still be liable for any damage or costs to the house he sprayed.

    It would be a very stupid or arrogant farmer that would try something like that, and expect to get away scott free with it. The simple fact would be he did damage or caused damage to someone else's property, and would be treated as such under Irish law.

    And I fail to believe that if Gardai were called and the person whose house was sprayed wanted to press charges that it would not be taken further.

    Also nobody from the council would go on offical record with a statement like that one.

    I didn't say the guards were called because they weren't.

    If the farmer did that just because he was pissed that the person was telling him how to farm (the issue was the use of plastic troughs on the farm) imagine what he would have done if she had taken it further. All the locals were just laughing at her and people were sick of people from the city's moving out and complaining about stuff that has gone on for years.

    You can fail to believe whatever you like but the person from the council did not make an official statement it was more of a friendly word with the person concerned.

    You can believe in the law all you like but all the farmer had to do was say he lost focus on what he was doing or that he didn't realise he was so close to the fence etc. Can't prove otherwise.


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    #33
    Dilly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Dilly


    Whatever about the legalities and the right/wrong of it all, I'm sorry that you lost your dogs...


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    #34
    chickenhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭chickenhawk


    Kess73 wrote: »
    Personally I would be gutted if it were my dogs that were shot, and I don't know if I would be able to see it as clearly as the farmer simply protecting his stock and source of income which is his right under law, or if I would from that moment onwards watch and report anything that could be illegal done by the farmer.

    Why would you report the farmer? Could you not just be responsible for your dog and keep it within the confines of your own land. And if you do not have enough space to keep it out of harms way don't buy a dog then.


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    #35
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    I don't know how this law could be improved but it should be. We had a dog smaller than a cat that went into the nighbours field for the first time in ten years of living next door. It just stood there and looked at the sheep and they just continued doing nothing, he got shot. That's bollocks imo. Neighbours moved away over it.


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    #36
    chickenhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭chickenhawk


    Tara Le d'Arion wrote: »
    I don't know how this law could be improved but it should be. We had a dog smaller than a cat that went into the nighbours field for the first time in ten years of living next door. It just stood there and looked at the sheep and they just continued doing nothing, he got shot. That's bollocks imo. Neighbours moved away over it.

    That is crazy.

    But I don't think the law should be changed.


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    #37
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    If that draconian law is not incentive enough for dog owners to keep their dogs from wandering off ...what else would work?


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    #38
    kerrysgold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 969 ✭✭✭kerrysgold


    AngelicRaindrop wrote: »
    no i had a healthy dog put down because i had been told she had been seen attacking a sheep by the owners, and yes i do think if a farmer is going to accuse a dog of attacking their sheep, and tell the owner he will kill the dog when he sees it again he should make sure he has the right dog, i would not have put down my dog if the farmer had sid he wasnt sure but he thought it was mine, he told me he was 100% sure that it was indeed my dog that he saw hanging out of one of his sheep with his won eyes, excuse me for caring enough for my dog to have her put to sleep instead of having a farmer shoot her and maybe not kill her straight away and have her in pain. no way sorry. i am heart broken and will never trust a farmer to be able to tell the difference between 2 different breeds of dogs again unless i see it with my own eyes that it is my dog.

    as far as my vet was concerned he agreed with me,

    unbelievable :eek:
    didn't you ever hear of the saying innocent until proven guilty?! Some farmer's word definitely doesn't count as "evidence" that the dog was a killer. I can't believe you killed a healthy and innocent dog rather than bother to keep her fenced in properly.


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    #39
    AngelicRaindrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭AngelicRaindrop


    lightening wrote: »
    I can't believe you did this instead of forking out on some fencing. Cruel stuff, I'm surprised the vet went along with your cheap and nasty "get out" of responsible dog ownership.

    thats your opinion, at the time i do think i did the right thing, as did my vet, its been 15 years since and if the same situation arose id do it again, no dog should attack and kill sheep. having lived on a farm i do agree with that, what i am saying is farmers should not go out and shoot without it being a completely last resort.


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    #40
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    AngelicRaindrop wrote: »
    if the same situation arose id do it again
    Only because I'm a moderator on this site (not this forum) and supposed to lead by example am I not going to tell you in plain English what I think of your attitude.

    It's because of people like you (and the OP) that this law has to exist in the first place.

    Keep your dogs secure !


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    #41
    marlin vs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭marlin vs


    It's the dog owner's responsibility to know where his or her dog is at ALL times and to be under their control. I came on two sheepdogs harassing about twelve cattle onetime and went to the farmer and told him. I offered to shoot them if I saw them doing it again he thanked me but told me not to as they were owned by his neighbour and had seen the dog's at it before, I know if they were my cattle I wouldn't hessitate to shoot them,it's always the case, my dog wouldn't do that.


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    #42
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    marlin vs wrote: »
    It's the dog owner's responsibility to know where his or her dog is at ALL times and to be under their control. I came on two sheepdogs harassing about twelve cattle onetime and went to the farmer and told him. I offered to shoot them if I saw them doing it again he thanked me but told me not to as they were owned by his neighbour and had seen the dog's at it before, I know if they were my cattle I wouldn't hessitate to shoot them,it's always the case, my dog wouldn't do that.

    yea our neighbours dog often chases or harasses our cattle.We don't own a gun though.Your example shows that there are plenty of farmers who won't shoot dogs even when perhaps they should,i hope that will show some people that farmers are not uncaring moneygrabbers.


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    #43
    pirelli
    Registered Users Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭pirelli


    AngelicRaindrop wrote: »
    no i had a healthy dog put down because i had been told she had been seen attacking a sheep by the owners, and yes i do think if a farmer is going to accuse a dog of attacking their sheep, and tell the owner he will kill the dog when he sees it again he should make sure he has the right dog, i would not have put down my dog if the farmer had sid he wasnt sure but he thought it was mine, he told me he was 100% sure that it was indeed my dog that he saw hanging out of one of his sheep with his won eyes, excuse me for caring enough for my dog to have her put to sleep instead of having a farmer shoot her and maybe not kill her straight away and have her in pain. no way sorry. i am heart broken and will never trust a farmer to be able to tell the difference between 2 different breeds of dogs again unless i see it with my own eyes that it is my dog.

    as far as my vet was concerned he agreed with me,

    You sound like my parents.


    OP:
    I am sorry to hear about your dogs. Farmer's; despite them being really sound and having a good friendship with you, think nothing of shooting your dog. It happen's everywhere. Perhaps you could find out from people that live near the area they were shot, if they heard gunshots and when.


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    #44
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    yes he's very much entilted to do it, and he's aslo entilted to get compensated for any damage your dogs did.


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    #45
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    AngelicRaindrop wrote: »
    i have to say although the farmer gave warning before shooting them I do think he may have been a bit quick about doing it.
    So the farmer sees a dog atacking his sheep a few sheep dead and he say's to himself I better run to the owner of the dog warn him that I will shoot his dog, then I must run back to the farm get the gun and shoot the dog. Most of the time the farmer doesn't know who owns the dog. You shoot the dog when he is atacking your sheep.


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    #46
    kerrysgold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 969 ✭✭✭kerrysgold


    AngelicRaindrop wrote: »
    thats your opinion, at the time i do think i did the right thing, as did my vet, its been 15 years since and if the same situation arose id do it again, no dog should attack and kill sheep. having lived on a farm i do agree with that, what i am saying is farmers should not go out and shoot without it being a completely last resort.

    I think you're missing the point entirely.

    Why didn't you fence you're dog in? If she couldn't get loose, she wouldn't attack the sheep, simple! No need to kill the poor thing. (Although according to you it was a acase of mistaken identity and it wasn't even her that was attacking the sheep so she was killed for absolutly no reason whatsoever!)


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    #47
    doctor evil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,114 ✭✭✭doctor evil


    In fairness to AngelicRaindrop a misplaced bullet/one gone off course would hurt a lot more than being over dosed with anastethic.


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    #48
    kerrysgold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 969 ✭✭✭kerrysgold


    again, missing the point which is PUT UP A FENCE.


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    #49
    lightening
    Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭lightening


    AngelicRaindrop wrote: »
    its been 15 years since and if the same situation arose id do it again

    I don't think your suited to dog ownership, your are cruel and irresponsible. You choose to kill a dog instead of keeping it fenced in properly.
    AngelicRaindrop wrote: »
    no dog should attack and kill sheep. having lived on a farm i do agree with that, what i am saying is farmers should not go out and shoot without it being a completely last resort.

    Again, killing your dog instead of spending a few bob on fencing is a cheap, nasty way out.


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    #50
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    in fairness to angelic she was living in the countryside with a dog she believed was attacking stock. building a fence is no garauntee the dog wont get out and do it again. i dont think its cruel to have a dog put down humanely. if a farmer shoots and kills the dog it might not die instantly and she could also have found herself in court to pay damages. a dog that cant be trusted around stock is a disaster waiting to happen


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    #51
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    whitser wrote: »
    building a fence is no garauntee the dog wont get out and do it again.

    So you'd rather save the money and effort on the fence and get one dog after the other on a "trial run" to either stay on your property or get put down ...or what?

    Of course a fence keeps dogs in ...if it's built properly.

    But that takes considerably more expense and effort than just putting down perfectly healthy and normal dogs.


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    #52
    lightening
    Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭lightening


    whitser wrote: »
    building a fence is no garauntee the dog wont get out and do it again.

    A content, well exercised dog with a properly built fence does the job for hundreds of people.


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    #53
    Munya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭Munya


    That's awful.:(


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    #54
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    what if she put in a fence and the dog got out and did it again? who'll pay for the damage? i can see your points, she jumped the gun a bit true but angelic believed she was doing what was best and i dont think she deserves to be lambasted as much as she is.
    its all well and good saying build a fence etc..but theres always the risk the dog will get out. and personally as i said a dog in the country that attacks sheep is a disaster in waiting.
    i see nothing cruel in a dog being put down humanely.


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    #55
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    also as she belived the dog had already attacked so in my eyes it should be put down. a fence at that stage would be closing the stable after the horse had bolted.


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    #56
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    whitser wrote: »
    its all well and good saying build a fence etc..but theres always the risk the dog will get out.

    It's a bit more than "well and good" to build a proper (!) fence.

    It reduces the chance of the dog escaping from 100% to under 1%


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    #57
    lightening
    Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭lightening


    whitser wrote: »
    i see nothing cruel in a dog being put down humanely.

    Neither do I. I do however feel its cruel to kill a dog instead of building a proper enclosure for the dog. I really think it say's a lot about the owner and where her priorities lie. A proper enclosure will keep the dog from livestock.


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    #58
    VW08
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭VW08


    AngelicRaindrop wrote: »
    i brought her to the vets and put her down rather than running the risk of her getting shot.

    How is this the farmers fault exactly?? Its was compleatly your own decision. If I was in that situation, I would have kept the dog in doors for a few nights, and see what happened. As a dog owner, you should know where your dog is at all times. If you chose to leave your dog out at night, you have to live with the consequences.

    Even is a dog doesn't actually attack a sheep, but just chases the sheep around, that can still kill them. They can have a heart attack and die.

    If cattle, break in a persons garden, then it is up to the owner of the cattel to pay for the damages.

    I live on a farm with my parents, they've never had to shoot a dog, or anything for that matter, but it at a lease resort if that did happen. My dad has on occasion, sat in the car, at night waiting for the dogs to come into the field to chase the sheep, and he's scared them off by driving after them and flashing the lights.

    Id hate to see a dog killed, but if they get a taste of blood, then they'll just come back for more, and the farmer has no choice. Its a game to the dogs.

    And of course a good fence will work.


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    #59
    Honey-ec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭Honey-ec


    whitser wrote: »
    what if she put in a fence and the dog got out and did it again? who'll pay for the damage? i can see your points, she jumped the gun a bit true but angelic believed she was doing what was best and i dont think she deserves to be lambasted as much as she is.
    its all well and good saying build a fence etc..but theres always the risk the dog will get out. and personally as i said a dog in the country that attacks sheep is a disaster in waiting.
    i see nothing cruel in a dog being put down humanely.

    But the dog never did anything in the first place, Whitser - it was a different dog altogether.


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    #60
    VW08
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭VW08


    AngelicRaindrop: did the farmer tell you to put the dog down or was the farmer telling you that your dog was seen, and would be killed if seen there again?


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    #61
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    fence or no fence a dog living in the countryside,beside a sheep farm that worrys sheep should be destroyed, no ifs ands or buts,imo.
    and angelic believed,rightly or wrongly, that her dog attacked the sheep.
    good kennels wil make sure 99% that the dog wont get out but theres is a cahnce and i dont think its worth taking. especially when your right next door to a sheep farm.


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