Is a farmer entitled to shoot my dogs?

whitser

lightening wrote: »

This is getting silly.

They never did, they never will. Full stop. That's it. Its not going to happen. Get over it!

it is getting silly...but it might happen:D

chickenhawk

Noopti wrote: »

It was that you said all the farmer has to do is "say he lost focus on what he was doing" in order to get away with it. This is false.

You are right. I don't really mean that. Bad argument.

kerrysgold

Just to clarify, whitser, do you think it is impossible to keep a dog 100% securely?

AngelicRaindrop

VW08 wrote: »

AngelicRaindrop: did the farmer tell you to put the dog down or was the farmer telling you that your dog was seen, and would be killed if seen there again?

he told me if i didnt put her down he would shoot her next time, for those who think i didnt have fencing, i did, obviously at the time i thought it hadnt worked at keeping her in, this farmer knew me, knew my dog and came to me because he was sure he had seen her attacking his sheep, i trusted him. and living on a farm i believe no dog should attack and try kill a sheep!

as to say i am not entitled to own dogs, thats nasty and unfair, would you really risk your dog being shot and maybe just badly injured than to give it a humane way out? to me thats not right, im not defending myself anymore, i know i did the right thing in that situation and i will not have people jumping on me and attacking me for caring about my dogs, you dont know me, you have no idea what type of dog owner i am and you have absolutely no right to judge me as you are doing, i kept my dog in, i loved my dog whole heartedly, it destroyed me to put her down but I DID NOT WANT HER BLEEDING TO DEATH IN SOME FIELD because some farmer hasnt got good aim

peasant

AngelicRaindrop wrote: »

he told me if i didnt put her down he would shoot her next time, for those who think i didnt have fencing, i did, obviously at the time i thought it hadnt worked at keeping her in, this farmer knew me, knew my dog and came to me because he was sure he had seen her attacking his sheep, i trusted him. and living on a farm i believe no dog should attack and try kill a sheep!

as to say i am not entitled to own dogs, thats nasty and unfair, would you really risk your dog being shot and maybe just badly injured than to give it a humane way out? to me thats not right, im not defending myself anymore, i know i did the right thing in that situation and i will not have people jumping on me and attacking me for caring about my dogs, you dont know me, you have no idea what type of dog owner i am and you have absolutely no right to judge me as you are doing, i kept my dog in, i loved my dog whole heartedly, it destroyed me to put her down but I DID NOT WANT HER BLEEDING TO DEATH IN SOME FIELD because some farmer hasnt got good aim

Oh my heart bleeds for you ...

Locking the dog in at night obviously didn't cross your mind ...neither did checking/repairing/upgrading the fence (possibly even housing the dog somehwere else temporarily until the fence was escape proof) ..all options you chose not to explore.

Spare me your sob stories ...you had a perfectly healthy dog needlessly put down ...that's the long and short of it.

AngelicRaindrop

wow now, see yet again you make assumptions, who says i left the dog out all night? try talking to me when you grow up and can voice opinions like an adult without being completely insulting to someone.

at least i can make my point without doing that, even though i dont not agree with your views and think that they are extremely narrow and niave i would in no way try to put you down by refering to your personal experiences as sob stories or being sarcastic.

i was quoting a message to VW08 who asked me a question, and i was answering it. excuse me if you think having manners to answer a question someone asks is a sob story or a bad thing.

you as a moderator should really set more of an example to people and stop acting in such a childish manner

kerrysgold

agree with peasant, our old dobie never escaped once and she only had a standard 6' fence.

there is no excuse for killing a healthy dog, it is not impossible to keep a dog from wandering! if they can jump 6', put them in a run with a roof. If they dig, put mesh a few feet down under the fence etc!

shinners007

wow now, see yet again you make assumptions, who says i left the dog out all night?

- I dont know whether you left your dog out all day/night but what is clear is that you as the dog owner did not supervise your dog at all times as you believed your dog may have attacked the farmers sheep.

You see if a farmer came to me and said "your dog attacked my sheep" - I d say that is impossible im with them at all times when there out of their runs and their is no possible way they can get out of their runs as they are checked for any damage or wear and tear so to speak daily when their being cleaned, feed and watered etc.. That is what a responsible owner does.

Secondly a responsible owner who gets a warning from a farmer about their dog (eg in rare circumstances if maybe the dog had been left out of the owners sight and was accused of chasing sheep or livestock etc) would build a safe secure run and kennel to contain the dog thus ensuring the dog cannot break out under any circumstances - it isnt rocket science it is what reponsilble owners do everyday, all over the country for their pets.

Thirdly I agree with peasant and Kerrysgold - putting the dog to sleep was just a cheaper quick fix to the problem and it was wrong to do that to the dog and it was your fault not the farmers fault he only warned you and his word shouldnt have taken precedint over the life of a healthy dog or the option of securing the dog in a safe secure well built run & kennel - simple as that.

If you had kept an eye on your dog at all times then you would have known 100% that it wasnt your dog chasing sheep - not putting a dog to sleep and then being informed it wasnt your dog at all - a responsible owner would have known immediately that it wasnt there dog- end of.

ValerieR

This thread has now evolved to have nothing to do with the original subject.

I think we all agree ...
- if dogs are found to worry stock, a farmer is entitled to shoot them, report the shooting to the gardai, and that
- a responsible dog owner should know where his/her dog is at all times.

I personally would go with the "Innocent until proven guilty" statement. This "event" happened 15 years ago! A lot of 'growing up' can be done in that time and I am sure AngelicRaindrop would or has put a lot of thoughts about owning a dog since.

Please, relax all of you! :-)

Thanks
ValerieR

peasant

AngelicRaindrop wrote: »

wow now, see yet again you make assumptions, who says i left the dog out all night? try talking to me when you grow up and can voice opinions like an adult without being completely insulting to someone.

Which assumptions am I making then?
Let me remind you of your first post in this thread (important bits in bold)

AngelicRaindrop wrote: »

I hate seeing threads like this, i lost a dog a few years ago to a similar situation, a local farmer came to tell me he had seen my dobermann attacking a sheep the night before. she had been out but had he not said he had seen her i would have been sure she was around the house. i brought her to the vets and put her down rather than running the risk of her getting shot.

ValerieR wrote:

This "event" happened 15 years ago! A lot of 'growing up' can be done in that time and I am sure AngelicRaindrop would or has put a lot of thoughts about owning a dog since.

Well see ...that's the bit that really gets my heckles up ...she obviously hasn't. She's still shifting the responsibility 15 years later.

When someone gets a dog they take on the responsibility for that dogs life and wellbeing. Having the dog killed needlessly (be it by a farmer with a shotgun or the vet with a syringe) is not an option. Neither is it justyfiable. That owner has failed their dog miserably.

~Thalia~

Oh for crying out loud guys. This has turned into a total witch hunt which seems to be the case with a lot of threads in this forum of late.

I don't agree that the lady put a healthy dog to sleep either but for Christ's sake what are you getting out of berating her for it? It's done.

For what it's worth I have a German Shep and live right smack bang in the middle of farmland. We have cattle and believe it or not a field on llamas (sp?) beside us and a stud farm to the other side. I am a dog lover. I work with animal welfare but I do agree that any farmer is within his rights to shoot a dog that gets out and worries livestock (if he catches them in the act and so has proof).

This "my dogs will never get out" attitude is frankly presumptous in the extreme. We all do our best to keep our dogs in. My dog has a secure yard and hasn't escaped in 2 years and I hope she never ever will but I'm not high and mighty enough to say that it will NEVER happen. None of us can say that and to those of you that do please dismount.

whitser

kerrysgold wrote: »

Just to clarify, whitser, do you think it is impossible to keep a dog 100% securely?

i do accept that you can keep a dog secure,99%
but just to clarify, i wouldnt keep a dog that has worried sheep. especially living next door to a sheep farm

whitser

kerrysgold wrote: »

agree with peasant, our old dobie never escaped once and she only had a standard 6' fence.

there is no excuse for killing a healthy dog, it is not impossible to keep a dog from wandering! if they can jump 6', put them in a run with a roof. If they dig, put mesh a few feet down under the fence etc!

there is an excuse for putting down a healthy dog..its a sheep worrier.

peasant

~Thalia~ wrote: »

I don't agree that the lady put a healthy dog to sleep either but for Christ's sake what are you getting out of berating her for it? It's done.

I agree with you there, what's done is done ...but ...it's the underlying attitude that I have an issue with. Not just that of AngelicRaindrops, but that of other posters as well.

We all know that any dog is capable of chasing sheep, we all know that a farmer is legally entitled to shoot such a dog on sight ...yet some here seem to have difficulty with realising that it is OUR (the owners) responsibility to keep that from happening. Some like to shift that responsibility on the farmers or whoever ...others like to blame the dogs.

All dogs are born sheep chasers and lamb killers, it's only our neglicence that allows them to live out that potential ...but some here make it out as if there were two types of dogs ...the ones that chase and the ones that don't ...regardless of fences and containment.

In both cases people are not living up to their responsibilities towards their dogs ...that's bad enough as it is ...but they're twisting and turning things around so as to shift the blame somewhere else ...and then they try to preach that as the gospel of responsible dog ownership.

Hey look ...I'm responsible, my dog didn't die bleeding in a field, it died cleanly on the vets table instead.

or the other version:

Hey look ...I let my dogs wander off, but I sorted the chasers from the others ...the chasers are dead now ...amen't I a responsible owner?


These attitudes make me sick to the bone ...so please excuse me if I get worked up a bit.

~Thalia~

peasant wrote: »

I agree with you there, what's done is done ...but ...it's the underlying attitude that I have an issue with. Not just that of AngelicRaindrops, but that of other posters as well.

We all know that any dog is capable of chasing sheep, we all know that a farmer is legally entitled to shoot such a dog on sight ...yet some here seem to have difficulty with realising that it is OUR (the owners) responsibility to keep that from happening. Some like to shift that responsibility on the farmers or whoever ...others like to blame the dogs.

All dogs are born sheep chasers and lamb killers, it's only our neglicence that allows them to live out that potential ...but some here make it out as if there were two types of dogs ...the ones that chase and the ones that don't ...regardless of fences and containment.

In both cases people are not living up to their responsibilities towards their dogs ...that's bad enough as it is ...but they're twisting and turning things around so as to shift the blame somewhere else ...and then they try to preach that as the gospel of responsible dog ownership.

Hey look ...I'm responsible, my dog didn't die bleeding in a field, it died cleanly on the vets table instead.

or the other version:

Hey look ...I let my dogs wander off, but I sorted the chasers from the others ...the chasers are dead now ...amen't I a responsible owner?


These attitudes make me sick to the bone ...so please excuse me if I get worked up a bit.

Totally agree with you on attitude.

I know if my dog got out she would chase livestock and 'worry' them, not sure that she would take it any further but I wouldn't like to chance that. I totally agree that every effort has to be made to secure a dog/s in their pens/yard/house whatever the case may be to avoid them getting out onto farmland. I suppose I just disagree with the point of view that says "no they will NEVER get out" because I don't think that it's possible to ever say never if I'm making sense!

The only ONE time my dog got out, it was my fault. Thankfully I was with her at the time and because she was a small puppy I (stupidly) assumed she could not get over the cattle grid but lo and behold she did and she took off up the road after himself's truck. I nearly DIED with fright. Thankfully she was well behaved and came back when called because if anything happened to her there would be NO talking to me.

whitser

peasant wrote: »

I agree with you there, what's done is done ...but ...it's the underlying attitude that I have an issue with. Not just that of AngelicRaindrops, but that of other posters as well.

We all know that any dog is capable of chasing sheep, we all know that a farmer is legally entitled to shoot such a dog on sight ...yet some here seem to have difficulty with realising that it is OUR (the owners) responsibility to keep that from happening. Some like to shift that responsibility on the farmers or whoever ...others like to blame the dogs.

All dogs are born sheep chasers and lamb killers, it's only our neglicence that allows them to live out that potential ...but some here make it out as if there were two types of dogs ...the ones that chase and the ones that don't ...regardless of fences and containment.

In both cases people are not living up to their responsibilities towards their dogs ...that's bad enough as it is ...but they're twisting and turning things around so as to shift the blame somewhere else ...and then they try to preach that as the gospel of responsible dog ownership.

Hey look ...I'm responsible, my dog didn't die bleeding in a field, it died cleanly on the vets table instead.

or the other version:

Hey look ...I let my dogs wander off, but I sorted the chasers from the others ...the chasers are dead now ...amen't I a responsible owner?


These attitudes make me sick to the bone ...so please excuse me if I get worked up a bit.

dont think any one said..i let my dogs wander off but sorted the chasers.....
you know nothing about my dogs or how they are kept, or how i look after them. my point was that angelic believed that her dog had attcked sheep, and i think she did right to put it down.
get down off your high horse. the girl was probably stunned by a angry farmer banging on her door and she felt i was her only option.
heinsight is a wonderfull thing.

Our man in Havana

This has gone on long enough. Thread closed. Any discussion of shooting goes in the hunting/shooting forum and not here.

This is my last word on the matter.