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Tuition fees/Grant for Masters
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27-07-2008 10:59am#1Hi.
I want to to do a (taught) Masters in TCD this year with the intention of doing a PhD after that.
Can someone advise me about what kind of maintenance grant and tuition fees i'm eligible for.
I'm over 23.
Basically I completed an undergraduate a few years ago now and since then I have lived independently.
I worked for a couple of years but recently (for at least a year now) i've been claiming unemployment benefit (then assistance).
I have lived independently during this time.
I rang up the County Council and they tell me that in order to show i was living independently, i need to specifically produce utility bills from this time.
Now i've no problem producing evidence from my landlord that i was living with him, but i have no utility bills in my name at all.
Everything was paid in the landlord's name.
The County Council say this won't do.
This seems very unfair.
Is there anything i can do about this?
Will this mean i'll have to be assessed on my parents income?
So basically:
1. If i'm assessed as living independently and claiming UA, are my tuition fees fully covered and what kind of maintenance grant can i get.
2. If assessed as dependent on my parents, are my tuition fees covered in any way and what kinda maintenance can i get?
Also if i move out of my current accomodation and into student accomodation to do the Masters will i still be deemed to be "living independently".
Or do i have to keep my current accomodation to retain my "independent" status if i want a grant when applying for the PhD next year
Sorry for all of the questions but it'd be great if someone could give me some advice on this.
Thanks.0
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Hi.
Hello!I want to to do a (taught) Masters in TCD this year with the intention of doing a PhD after that.
Can someone advise me about what kind of maintenance grant and tuition fees i'm eligible for.
I'm over 23.
As long as it is full-time, you can avail of a grant for it if you are below the income limits. The rule to be a mature student (and thus assessed on your own) is to be over 23 on the 1st of January in the year you're looking to apply, so being over 23 by itself isn't everything as you can see.
For tuition fees if you get a grant then the fees are paid each year (up to a limit of 4 years, and around €6,110 per year). You would get a grant on top of that but that will vary as per your circumstances.Basically I completed an undergraduate a few years ago now and since then I have lived independently.
I worked for a couple of years but recently (for at least a year now) i've been claiming unemployment benefit (then assistance).
I have lived independently during this time.
Cool, it would be worth having a look at the Back to Education Allowance since you were unemployed. You can get this on top of the grant.I rang up the County Council and they tell me that in order to show i was living independently, i need to specifically produce utility bills from this time.
Now i've no problem producing evidence from my landlord that i was living with him, but i have no utility bills in my name at all.
Everything was paid in the landlord's name.
The County Council say this won't do.
This seems very unfair.
Is there anything i can do about this?
Will this mean i'll have to be assessed on my parents income?
Is there nothing (even if it was a credit card/bank/phone bill or something) that was addressed in your name? The more you can produce the better of course, even post that was addressed to you from anyone (that's dated - the more official the better).So basically:
1. If i'm assessed as living independently and claiming UA, are my tuition fees fully covered and what kind of maintenance grant can i get.
The levels of grant are covered here. If you're applying as a mature student the minimum you'd get would be the amounts covered in 'non-adjacent'.2. If assessed as dependent on my parents, are my tuition fees covered in any way and what kinda maintenance can i get?
Same deal with fees being covered - if you're entitled to a grant independently or with your parents income your fees are covered.Also if i move out of my current accomodation and into student accomodation to do the Masters will i still be deemed to be "living independently".
Well the Council usually looks for where you were living last October the 1st.Or do i have to keep my current accomodation to retain my "independent" status if i want a grant when applying for the PhD next year
Sorry for all of the questions but it'd be great if someone could give me some advice on this.
Thanks.
Officially yes, if you're 'independent' you would have to remain 'independent'.
If there's anything else fire away
Dónal0 -
First off, thanks for getting back to me.As long as it is full-time, you can avail of a grant for it if you are below the income limits. The rule to be a mature student (and thus assessed on your own) is to be over 23 on the 1st of January in the year you're looking to apply, so being over 23 by itself isn't everything as you can see.
OK, i'm actually well over 23.
The course is full time.For tuition fees if you get a grant then the fees are paid each year (up to a limit of 4 years, and around €6,110 per year). You would get a grant on top of that but that will vary as per your circumstances.
OK this is what i was wondering about.
Are you saying that if you qualify for any old grant (ie whether you're deemed dependent or independent of your parents) that you're tuition fees will be covered in full for a Masters/PhD.
e.g If independent, how much of the 6110/yr of tuition fees be paid.
Or if you're deemed dependent, how much of the tuition fees would actually be paid?
For a Masters/PhD though?Cool, it would be worth having a look at the Back to Education Allowance since you were unemployed. You can get this on top of the grant.
I'll take a look.Is there nothing (even if it was a credit card/bank/phone bill or something) that was addressed in your name? The more you can produce the better of course, even post that was addressed to you from anyone (that's dated - the more official the better).
I do have a couple of bank statements but the Co Co tell me that's no good either.
They insist on a utility bill only. :rolleyes:
What date would have to be on them anyway (is it before or after Oct 2007?)The levels of grant are covered here. If you're applying as a mature student the minimum you'd get would be the amounts covered in 'non-adjacent'.
OK thanks.Same deal with fees being covered - if you're entitled to a grant independently or with your parents income your fees are covered.
But fees for Masters/PhD would be means tested like the grant wouldn't they.
Or are you saying tuition fees would be fully covered if you qualified for any type of maintenance grant (independent or dependent).Well the Council usually looks for where you were living last October the 1st.
Officially yes, if you're 'independent' you would have to remain 'independent'.
That almost defeats the purpose doesn't it.
That would mean you'd have to pay two rents (to keep your student and ordinary accomodation) during the college year to qualify for the independent grant and fees the following year.
So student accomodation isn't independent?
If there's anything else fire away
Thanks.
I appreciate it.0 -
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OK this is what i was wondering about.
Are you saying that if you qualify for any old grant (ie whether you're deemed dependent or independent of your parents) that you're tuition fees will be covered in full for a Masters/PhD.
e.g If independent, how much of the 6110/yr of tuition fees be paid.
Or if you're deemed dependent, how much of the tuition fees would actually be paid?
As spaceylou said, if you get a grant you get your fees paid for the following:Full Maintenance and Full Fees
Part Maintenance (75%) and Full Fees
Part Maintenance (50%) and Full Fees
Part Maintenance (25%) and Full Fees
...with half fees paid for this:Part Tuition Fees (50%) only*For a Masters/PhD though?
I'll take a look.
I'm wrong on this - I knew there was something written down about postgraduates and the BTEA but it's only for...The Postgraduate option of the BTEA Scheme is only for people who wish to take:
* a postgraduate course of study that leads to a Higher Diploma (H. Dip.) qualification
or
* a Graduate Diploma in Education (Primary teaching).
Other postgraduate qualifications are not recognised for BTEA purposes.
http://www.welfare.ie/publications/sw70.html
Sorry about this, I honestly thought it covered beyond H Dips.I do have a couple of bank statements but the Co Co tell me that's no good either.
They insist on a utility bill only. :rolleyes:
What date would have to be on them anyway (is it before or after Oct 2007?)
I think they're looking for proof for around 1st of October 2007.But fees for Masters/PhD would be means tested like the grant wouldn't they.
Or are you saying tuition fees would be fully covered if you qualified for any type of maintenance grant (independent or dependent).
Yes, although there are categories within categories you see! See above for 'full fees - part fees' information.That almost defeats the purpose doesn't it.
That would mean you'd have to pay two rents (to keep your student and ordinary accomodation) during the college year to qualify for the independent grant and fees the following year.
So student accomodation isn't independent?
Again, spaceylou has covered this - it is independent.0 -
As spaceylou said, if you get a grant you get your fees paid for the following:
...with half fees paid for this:
OK thanks for clearing that up for me.I'm wrong on this - I knew there was something written down about postgraduates and the BTEA but it's only for...
http://www.welfare.ie/publications/sw70.html
Yeah i just saw that there as well, thanks.
I've one more question
Basically there's 2 neuroscience courses in TCD-
1. the MSc and
2. the combined MSc/PhD.
I want to first do the MSc in Neuroscience first.
But upon completion i may be looking at then joining the PhD part of the other MSc/PhD course in Neuroscience.
However i was informed by someone in the TCD fees office that because the MSc and the Msc/PhD are actually two separate courses it would mean i'd then essentially be doing two Postgrad courses.
And the Grant obviously only covers one Postgrad course.
So they say i may only get a grant for the Masters and not the PhD (which seemingly is deemed a second Postgrad course).
My Local Authority however seemed to have no issue with covering both a Masters and a PhD.
I thought it was the case that if you could demonstrate progression that you'd be covered for both Masters and then PhD (even if they are technically separate courses).0 -
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Hi,
by student accommodation I take it you mean on-campus accommodation?? You can live there and still be independent - I mean you are still paying the rent!
As for cost of fees and how much they cover, generally they will cover up to 6100 so if your fees are anything from €0 (yeah right!!) - €6110 they will pay them in full for you and then anything above €6110 you pay the balance. SO for example, my masters is about to cost 7150 - Dub Co Co pay 6100, I pay 1050.....Hope this helps.
And as for the council insisting on a utility bill, gather everything you have and plead with them cause in fairness, people don't always have utility bills in their name!!
OK great thanks.
You couldn't take a shot at the other problem i mentioned in the post before this.
The issue of first completing a Masters and then going on to do a PhD (when both are in neuroscience TCD- but the second is technically a different course).
Would this constitute doing two postgrad courses?
And obviously you're only allowed funding for one postgrad.
Any ideas?0 -
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The issue Trinity have with this is that to the best of my memory all students who pursue a PhD are, in the first instance, pursuing a masters. They are then accepted to the PhD register after a time, sometimes six months to a year. So from their point of view you'd be doing a masters, then doing a masters, then transferring to a PhD. Once you transfer to a PhD there shouldn't be a problem (again, going on memory).
So basically, the problem is Trinity! By the way, I'd just like to say well done on getting this sorted and finding the answers out now rather then just going for one first and then assuming the other, you're really saving yourself a lot of potential problems this way.
Myth thanks for getting back to me.
Sorry i'm a bit confused.
Are you saying you don't envisage a problem funding-wise if i first complete (and get awarded) the MSc Neuroscience and then apply to do the PhD part of the other (technically separate) MSc/PhD Neuroscience course.
Or would the act of awarding an MSc demarcate two Postgraduate degrees and therefore outrule funding for the second (the PhD).
Generally speaking though if you first do a Masters and decide then (or even later) to do a PhD, do you get a grant for both.
Is this specifically a Trinity problem?
It seems strange that only students who go straight into the MSc/PhD would get proper funding.
The explanation i got from the fees office was that if i completed the MSc course first, then i would be awarded the MSc before embarking on a PhD, which would mean i'd have completed one postgrad (the MSc) and would be ineligible for a second (the PhD).
Whereas those students who go straight into doing the MSc/PhD, they wouldn't be awarded their MSc until the end of the whole MSc/PhD degree.
Again thanks.0 -
Myth thanks for getting back to me.
Sorry i'm a bit confused.
Are you saying you don't envisage a problem funding-wise if i first complete (and get awarded) the MSc Neuroscience and then apply to do the PhD part of the other (technically separate) MSc/PhD Neuroscience course.
Or would the act of awarding an MSc demarcate two Postgraduate degrees and therefore outrule funding for the second (the PhD).
Generally speaking though if you first do a Masters and decide then (or even later) to do a PhD, do you get a grant for both.Is this specifically a Trinity problem?
It seems strange that only students who go straight into the MSc/PhD would get proper funding.
The explanation i got from the fees office was that if i completed the MSc course first, then i would be awarded the MSc before embarking on a PhD, which would mean i'd have completed one postgrad (the MSc) and would be ineligible for a second (the PhD).
Whereas those students who go straight into doing the MSc/PhD, they wouldn't be awarded their MSc until the end of the whole MSc/PhD degree.
Again thanks.
From my point of view I'd be looking at your qualifications.7.5Candidates who have previously pursued a postgraduate course approved for the purposes of the Higher Education Grants Scheme or the Vocational Education Committees’ Scholarship Scheme shall not receive a grant under this Scheme until they have completed an equivalent period of study at postgraduate level irrespective of whether or not a grant was paid previously. A Local Authority shall have discretion to waive this provision in exceptional circumstances, such as certified serious illness. Grants shall not be paid to candidates who already hold a postgraduate qualification and are pursuing a second postgraduate qualification. However, notwithstanding this condition candidates who:
(i)on completion of a one year post-graduate course which has not led to the conferral of a qualification, gain admittance to the second year of a post-graduate course;
OR
(ii) already hold a postgraduate qualification and are progressing to a further postgraduate course which represents progression may be deemed eligible for grant aid.
For the purposes of this clause postgraduate qualifications at Level 8 are deemed to be progression.
http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/support_higher08.doc?language=EN
My interpretation of (ii) above would be that if you already have an MSc (Level 9) and are progressing to a PhD (Level 10) you would be eligible, although the PhD is really an MSc / PhD so until you are accepted on to the PhD register, you're really pursuing an MSc, thus would only be eligible once you are on the PhD register. I remember encountering this before during my days in the Students' Union in Trinity, but my accuracy/interpretation my be, well, inaccurate!
Always check whatever the fees office anywhere says with the Council/VEC, since the Council/VEC will be the one who actually administers the scheme. And similarly, always check whatever I say with them too
Hope this all works out ok 0 -
From my point of view I'd be looking at your qualifications.
Are you saying that my MSc result would determine my eligibility for a local authority grant for a PhD more than anything else.
I thought eligibility for Local Authority grants would be independent of results achieved.http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/support_higher08.doc?language=EN
My interpretation of (ii) above would be that if you already have an MSc (Level 9) and are progressing to a PhD (Level 10) you would be eligible, although the PhD is really an MSc / PhD so until you are accepted on to the PhD register, you're really pursuing an MSc, thus would only be eligible once you are on the PhD register. I remember encountering this before during my days in the Students' Union in Trinity, but my accuracy/interpretation my be, well, inaccurate!
Always check whatever the fees office anywhere says with the Council/VEC, since the Council/VEC will be the one who actually administers the scheme. And similarly, always check whatever I say with them too
Hope this all works out ok
Fair enough.
If you do recall that SU issue let me know.
I'll talk again to my Co Co.
I suppose i'll explain to them the distinction between the courses- hopefully they'll see it as progression (which it is).
This does seem straightforward enough-
(ii) already hold a postgraduate qualification and are progressing to a further postgraduate course which represents progression may be deemed eligible for grant aid.
Even though it does say "may"- whatever that means.
Anyway thanks.0 -
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Are you saying that my MSc result would determine my eligibility for a local authority grant for a PhD more than anything else.
I thought eligibility for Local Authority grants would be independent of results achieved.
No no, by qualifications I meant level of qualification achieved - level 6, level 7, or for an MSc level 9. Your results won't matter in your case.
NFQ explained: http://www.ics-skills.ie/eucip/images/NFQ.jpg
I think I've somehow managed to fudge my words enough times on this thread 0 -
No no, by qualifications I meant level of qualification achieved - level 6, level 7, or for an MSc level 9. Your results won't matter in your case.
NFQ explained: http://www.ics-skills.ie/eucip/images/NFQ.jpg
I think I've somehow managed to fudge my words enough times on this thread
OK cheers.
You've been a lot of help.
BTW after
completing a Masters, if you then go to apply for a Co Co grant for a PhD course, do you have to fill out a completely new grant form again for the PhD, or is it a simple renewal of the original one for the Masters.0 -
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Hi, I've just been flicking through this thread. Apologies Tech77 if what I say has already been said by Myth, it's late, I haven't time to go through the thread with a fine-toothed comb!
Tech77, you said:And obviously you're only allowed funding for one postgrad.
This is NOT true. I received a grant for an MSc and a PhD (the PhD was in Trinity). You *are* eligible for a grant for both (despite what the person in the Trinity fees office said) because as Myth pointed out, the PhD represents a higher degree than the MSc, which means that you're not going for a second degree of the same type.
You can get money for the PhD even if technically you are on the MSc register. I was on the MSc register for a while during my PhD, I still received the grant during this period.
You do not have to reapply for the grant when moving to the PhD after finishing the MSc (I didn't). You just apply to have the grant renewed, but inform the local authority that you're commencing a PhD. You don't have to go through the whole means-testing shenanigans all over again.
Higher education grants are only available for a maximum of four years post-grad education however. So if the MSc is two years, you'll only get the grant for two years of the PhD.
Hope this is of some help, it is accurate as of 2006.
<edit> oh, and as for the utility bill thing, I had the same problem. I managed to solve this by producing a sworn affidavit:
(taken from http://www.kerrycoco.ie/educatgrants/postgrad.asp)SA1 Form - To be completed by students pursuing courses in E.U. Member States - must be stamped by the institution concerned.
- Proof of independent residence in Kerry since 1st October 2006 - applicable to Independent Mature Candidates only. We require a Rent book or Utility Bill e.g. Eircom bill, ESB Bill OR Gas Bill in your name relating to the 1st October 2006.
If you cannot provide any of the above, we require an Affidavit sworn before a ‘Commissioner of Oaths’, confirming Independent residency in Kerry since 1st October 2006.)
I got my grant from Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, so this isn't just some weird arrangement they only have in Kerry. 0 -
newestUser wrote: »Hi, I've just been flicking through this thread. Apologies Tech77 if what I say has already been said by Myth, it's late, I haven't time to go through the thread with a fine-toothed comb!
Tech77, you said:
This is NOT true. I received a grant for an MSc and a PhD (the PhD was in Trinity). You *are* eligible for a grant for both (despite what the person in the Trinity fees office said) because as Myth pointed out, the PhD represents a higher degree than the MSc, which means that you're not going for a second degree of the same type.
You can get money for the PhD even if technically you are on the MSc register. I was on the MSc register for a while during my PhD, I still received the grant during this period.
You do not have to reapply for the grant when moving to the PhD after finishing the MSc (I didn't). You just apply to have the grant renewed, but inform the local authority that you're commencing a PhD. You don't have to go through the whole means-testing shenanigans all over again.
Higher education grants are only available for a maximum of four years post-grad education however. So if the MSc is two years, you'll only get the grant for two years of the PhD.
Hope this is of some help, it is accurate as of 2006.
<edit> oh, and as for the utility bill thing, I had the same problem. I managed to solve this by producing a sworn affidavit:
(taken from http://www.kerrycoco.ie/educatgrants/postgrad.asp)
I got my grant from Dun Laoghaire Rathdown, so this isn't just some weird arrangement they only have in Kerry.
OK thanks. 0
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