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Renewing Licence

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  • 27-07-2008 11:57pm
    #1
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Something just occurred to me recently.
    By law, a driver must have their licence with them when driving.
    However, when renewing your licence, you must send off the old one to the Motor Tax Office. Are you meant to not drive during this period? I heard that Kildare Co. Co. (my Co. Co.) are about a month behind in renewing licences meaning that I have to take time off work and go down and queue.


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    #2
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,911 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Not 100% sure on the driving without it bit... both times I've been without (test pass and replacement) I had a receipt for the license on me which would probably pacify the Guard but, obviously, isn't a driving license!

    As goes the Naas MTO, theres 3 weeks or so backlog on postal applications. Counter applications are posted out that evening - 2 day turnaround for my washed license a few weeks back. There's an express lane for license applications so no two hour wait, often no queue or only 1/2 people.


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    #3
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    What I meant was that if you post the application to them thn you are without a licence for quite some time with no receipt to show a garda and the delay is much longer than the 10 days that the garda may give you!


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    #4
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Interesting question - I'll do a bit of digging.


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    #5
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Found it, the legislation is:
    Road Traffic Act, 1994 - SEC 25, Requirement to carry driving licence while driving vehicle.
    and amended by Road Traffic Act 2006 SEC 13
    A member of the Garda Síochána may demand, of a person driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle or accompanying pursuant to regulations under this Act the holder of a provisional licence while such holder is driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle, the production to him of a driving licence then having effect and licensing the said person to drive the vehicle, and if the person refuses or fails so to produce the licence there and then, he shall be guilty of an offence.
    etc....
    It seems that a Guard may allow 10 days to produce after which you are guilty of an offence.
    It doesn't seem to make any allowance for delays in issuing a new one so technically, you are not permitted to drive while waiting.


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    #6
    Kavinsky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭Kavinsky


    SteveC wrote: »
    Found it, the legislation is:
    Road Traffic Act, 1994 - SEC 25, Requirement to carry driving licence while driving vehicle.
    and amended by Road Traffic Act 2006 SEC 13
    A member of the Garda Síochána may demand, of a person driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle or accompanying pursuant to regulations under this Act the holder of a provisional licence while such holder is driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle, the production to him of a driving licence then having effect and licensing the said person to drive the vehicle, and if the person refuses or fails so to produce the licence there and then, he shall be guilty of an offence.
    etc....


    It seems that a Guard may allow 10 days to produce after which you are guilty of an offence.
    It doesn't seem to make any allowance for delays in issuing a new one so technically, you are not permitted to drive while waiting.

    Think that piece of legislation refers to provisional drivers only, anyway every driver has a unique driver identification number which is recorded in a database along with your license type (1st prov/2nd prov/full/A/B/C1/etc) so technically you are still licensed to drive the vehicle you just aren't in possession of the license. No gardai in his right mind would charge you with this, it would get thrown out of court in a flash.


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    #7
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Kavinsky wrote: »
    Think that piece of legislation refers to provisional drivers only, anyway every driver has a unique driver identification number which is recorded in a database along with your license type (1st prov/2nd prov/full/A/B/C1/etc) so technically you are still licensed to drive the vehicle you just aren't in possession of the license. No gardai in his right mind would charge you with this, it would get thrown out of court in a flash.
    Read it again - it's a bit confusing.

    It says they may ask to see the licence of a driver or a person accompanying a learner.
    A member of the Garda Síochána may demand, of a person driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle or accompanying (pursuant to regulations under this Act) the holder of a provisional licence while such holder is driving .........

    The guard may indeed not be bothered charging you with it but IMO if he did it would hold up in court and would be convicted. I would guess that a Judge would show leniency on the sentence / fine but it would nevertheless be a recorded conviction. The Judge cannot ignore what is written in law.


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    #8
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,991 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    kbannon wrote: »
    Something just occurred to me recently.
    By law, a driver must have their licence with them when driving.
    However, when renewing your licence, you must send off the old one to the Motor Tax Office. Are you meant to not drive during this period? I heard that Kildare Co. Co. (my Co. Co.) are about a month behind in renewing licences meaning that I have to take time off work and go down and queue.

    Yep, you aren't legally allowed to drive if you post it. Must want to keep the offices busy so they don't have to lay people off:p

    If you sent it registered would that cover, or does registered show the address posted to?


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    #9
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    I replaced my license earlier on in the year, when filling out the form I asked the cops about this and got them to stamp a form to state that I was in the process of applying for a new one. I carried my passport for photo ID in the few days I was without the license as the last thing I wanted was any hassle if I was pulled.


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    #10
    snickerpuss
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭snickerpuss


    Well when you apply for a the full license for the first time (and I'm sure they do subsequently) they give you a receipt with your name and address and what you applied for with a date and time of when you applied.

    Normally that would be okay, it's issued by the motor tax office people. I can't see any garda expecting you to stop driving while you wait for it.


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    #11
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Just photocopy both sides of the licence before renewing.


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    #12
    dade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭dade


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I replaced my license earlier on in the year, when filling out the form I asked the cops about this and got them to stamp a form to state that I was in the process of applying for a new one. I carried my passport for photo ID in the few days I was without the license as the last thing I wanted was any hassle if I was pulled.

    not a bad idea, teh missus has to replace heres this week. she was considering just photocopying teh expired one and her application form and carrying that


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    #13
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,991 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    snickerpuss wrote: »
    Well when you apply for a the full license for the first time (and I'm sure they do subsequently) they give you a receipt with your name and address and what you applied for with a date and time of when you applied.

    Normally that would be okay, it's issued by the motor tax office people. I can't see any garda expecting you to stop driving while you wait for it.

    The OP is referring to posting in your renewal not going into the office.


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    #14
    WH BONNEY
    Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭WH BONNEY


    Its a 6 week wait for postal applications in Naas now


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    #15
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Which is scandalous.

    With those sort of delays it would be very foolish for a person to post their licence to be renewed. I remember a few years back, Wicklow was taking 8 weeks to issue a licence or a tax disc by post. The Gardaí were having none of any of the excuses that drivers were offering. Many drivers were prosecuted for no tax/licences. The local judge lost the rag with the council and he summonsed the head of the MTO into court to explain wtf was going on.

    Needless to say the cases were struck out.


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    #16
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,311 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    As a native Corkonian, I got my first provisional at the motor tax office behind the county hall. Simple procedure, queued up, handed in documents, photo's and money, waited, after a couple of seconds checking over the documents, the person behind the desk got a blank license, filled in the relevant info, placed the photo, applied the laminate and handed it to me.
    I did very little driving until after finishing college, so by the time I had a car and was called for my test, my license expired a few days before the test, a test I had been called for at short notice. I was working in Galway at the time so I given my previous experience of going to the motor tax office in person, I went straight in to the one on Prospect Hill. Imagine my shock when the person behind the desk spent just as much time leafing through the documents, only to pick up a stapler, staple the whole lot together and put it in a pile of other applications and take nearly as long to issue a receipt as took in Cork to issue a license. I questioned what was going on and when I was told it would be sent out by post within two weeks. I explained that I had a test the following week and the reaction was 'oh, we'll put a note with your application'. I got a call two days later from someone who said they'd seen the note but there was no evidence of the test so they couldn't prioritise it unless I brought the letter about the test in. I did that and the person behind the desk was about to staple it to the rest of the documents when I interrupted to say that I wanted the letter back and to take a photocopy if they wanted to retain a record of it. My level of trust for these people was very low. Eventually the day before the test the license came in the post.
    I passed the test and in my excitement I thought about going straight in to get the full license, as I'm sure others have, but then I thought better and waited until I was back in Cork a few weeks later where low and behold, they processed the application there and then, issuing the license as quickly as the Galway staff had issued a receipt.
    I've since got a replacement license for a change of address in Dublin (Clondalkin Motor Tax Office), and while they did the stapling of the paperwork and issuing of receipt too, at least the license was delivered two days later.
    Why, oh why can't all Motor Tax Offices just issue the god damn license there and then, if anything it is a more efficient process, but maybe that's the problem, where would the overtime come from?


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    #17
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,911 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I think handwritten licences are a Cork peculiarity these days. Two days turnaround for counter as Ninth Lock and Naas seem to do is fine for most people, and you get a printed licence that doesn't instantly look faked to every foreign police officer.


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    #18
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    The thing with posting them out is to do with verifying the address given. I think Cork is the only MTO that issues on the spot.
    I think handwritten licences are a Cork peculiarity these days. Two days turnaround for counter as Ninth Lock and Naas seem to do is fine for most people, and you get a printed licence that doesn't instantly look faked to every foreign police officer.
    Even the printed ones look faked to most cops in the USA. I have had a few cops think it was a fake. Even the passports don't look that great either. I mean the old ones that have a laminated photo.


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    #19
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,311 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    MYOB wrote: »
    I think handwritten licences are a Cork peculiarity these days. Two days turnaround for counter as Ninth Lock and Naas seem to do is fine for most people, and you get a printed licence that doesn't instantly look faked to every foreign police officer.

    They use a printer at each of the counters to print tax discs on the spot, why couldn't they do the same for driving licenses? It's not rocket science.
    Bond-007 wrote: »
    The thing with posting them out is to do with verifying the address given.

    Addresses are routinely verified using recent utility bills.


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    #20
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Addresses are routinely verified using recent utility bills.
    Where now? Never heard of that with a motor tax office.


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    #21
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Bond-007 wrote: »
    I think Cork is the only MTO that issues on the spot
    It would appear that Limerick are now also doing them over the counter.
    alias no.9 wrote: »
    They use a printer at each of the counters to print tax discs on the spot, why couldn't they do the same for driving licenses? It's not rocket science
    It may be simpler for those with one category but it can be quite complex for those with multiple categories. In my experience, those on the counter are generally accustomed to those seeking a 'B' licence and haven't a clue about other categories. A person may wish to renew a licence with 14 categories. They may have a various restrictions on different categories which requires code numbers to be inserted beside the relevant categories. There are also those categories that one is entitled to 'by default' but try telling that to some counter staff! I presume that is why most prefer to leave it to those with the expertise.
    alias no.9 wrote:
    Addresses are routinely verified using recent utility bills.
    I've never been asked to provide proof of address at an MTO office and how many 16/17 year olds would have a utility bill in their name?


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    #22
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    I've never been asked to provide proof of address at an MTO office and how many 16/17 year olds would have a utility bill in their name?

    The majority will have a bank statement these days. That's proof of address, or a P60/P21/Notification of Tax Credits.

    +1 on photocopying the licence. I know someone who keeps the original in the visor and a copy in her husband's car because if she carried it in handbags it would get lost.


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    #23
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Still I have never heard of a motor tax office looking for proof of address before. It must be only in certain areas.


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    #24
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,311 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Bond-007 wrote: »
    Where now? Never heard of that with a motor tax office.

    I never said in motor tax offices. You made a claim that the reason for posting licenses was to verify addresses. If this is considered a problem, then it's a problem that has already been solved by the production of a recent utility bill, in many cases this satisfys a statutory requirement to verify addresses. Why the need to reinvent the wheel?


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    #25
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,911 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    When I got my provisional mobile bills were generally banned from use for ID purposes (and I probably had a prepay at the time!), my bank account sent me a statement every year, and I didn't have the other bills I now have. Would a letter from my mammy have done?


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    #26
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    MYOB wrote: »
    When I got my provisional mobile bills were generally banned from use for ID purposes (and I probably had a prepay at the time!), my bank account sent me a statement every year, and I didn't have the other bills I now have. Would a letter from my mammy have done?
    And for that reason, MTOs don't ask for proof of address to renew a licence.


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