M7/M8 Portlaoise-Castletown-Cullahill Motorway (incl. Abbeyleix Bypass)

Danno

I heard that the NRA are unable to commit funds for this project and that the scale back in employment is reflecting this. Secondly, the contract parts pertaining to bonuses for early completion have been revoked and and late penaltys will not be imposed. Quite simply the money is down to a trickle.

Amtmann

Hm. There are many rumours. These are often indicitive of real problems. You'd think our national media would show even a modicum of interest in these road projects, but no.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

Hm. There are many rumours. These are often indicitive of real problems. You'd think our national media would show even a modicum of interest in these road projects, but no.

Nope. The media are just there to shove the same crappy soundbites in our face the minister does anytime a road scheme opens.

If you manage to pick up a paper like The Independent or The Irish Times (both trash, but that's a debate for another forum) on the day a road scheme opens, read the two corresponding articles and try to identify any differences.

And God forbid you find anything more than "road opens" in a tabloid...

Rovi

I managed to get out for a ramble on St. Stephen's day.

The photos below are all from the section of the project between the existing N7 and the secondary road it next intersects, including the toll plaza.

I've stitched in small screengrabs from the EIS documents covering this particular section, with yellow arrows showing the location and direction of the camera in each instance. The photos were taken from the point at the tip of the arrow; apologies for the middling quality of the photos, they were taken with a camera phone.

EIS Sheet 1-18
1. The new overbridge for the existing N7, showing most of the embankments leading up to it:


2. The same bridge, from approximately the middle of the mainline. The car is passing on the existing N7:


3. Sections of the superstructure of the toll plaza:


4. A view of the newly realigned watercourse as it emerges from its culvert under the mainline (see post #43 for more details). The water in the picture is static, as the original watercourse hasn't been diverted into it yet:


5. The same watercourse, looking back towards the culvert:



EIS Sheet 1-17
6. A general view across the toll plaza area. One of the arch structures has been assembled:


7. Panning from left to right, three views of the toll plaza from the Southern (Cork/Limerick) approach:




8. A view from the Southern side of the toll plaza, looking towards the Southern (Cork/Limerick) approach:


9. At the secondary road, looking in the direction of the toll plaza/Dublin:


10. Looking across the secondary road, in the direction of Cork/Limerick. The uprights for the bridge are under construction, with no sign of the span as yet:



That's it for the moment, I'll see if I can get some of other parts of the project before work resumes; it's looking like there's nothing going to happen on it until after the New Year.

AugustusMaximus

Absolutely fantastic stuff Rovi.

BluntGuy

Great snaps and great annotations Rovi! Thank you very much...

At least from this we can that some progress is being made - although it kinda figures they'd begin work on the toll plaza as soon as possible...

Amtmann

Great pics Rovi. Many thanks!

Chris_533976

Thanks a mil

murphaph

The annotations are great-I normally whizz through pictures of building sites unless I have a point of reference.

Joey Joe-Joe Jr

Great work Rovi!

*** takes off hat ***

Amtmann

So, any news with this scheme? I might be heading up that way next weekend. If I am I will take the R434 at Durrow and head as if for Roscrea. Looking at my atlas that route should allow several opportunities to inspect the M8 and M7 routes.

I also have a question on the interchange itself. Will this be similar to the M9/M7 interchange? In other words, will the M8 pass under the M7 before it merges with it, or will it be carried on stilts over the M7? How impressive/notable will this be when finished?

Rovi, did work resume promptly in January?

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

I also have a question on the interchange itself. Will this be similar to the M9/M7 interchange? In other words, will the M8 pass under the M7 before it merges with it, or will it be carried on stilts over the M7? How impressive/notable will this be when finished?

http://www.m7m8scheme.ie/eis/pdfs/EIS_M7M8_Volume6_Fig5-14.pdf

I also found out some other interesting things from the EIS:

> 13 km of P-C/C scheme is M8.
> Originally the P-C/C project was meant to be constructed before the Cashel-Cullahill scheme.
> Originally, the half-completed Portlaoise junction was meant to have a half-cloverleaf set-up when this scheme was finished. That was changed to a diamond-style interchange.
> There's no mention of tolling for Junction 3. But... I'm not gonna rule that out yet.

Amtmann

It looks like the northbound M8 carriagway crosses over the M7 above ground before joining it. Is that right?

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

It looks like the northbound M8 carriagway crosses over the M7 above ground before joining it. Is that right?

Judging from the northbound on-ramp profile I think it's an M7/M9 job. You can even see the cuttings on each side of the on-ramp.

mysterious

I love the way the more important road, "M7" stays mainline while the M8 goes TOTOS.:D

M8 you just gonna have to merge onto the mother road "M7". No M8 after this point.:P

mysterious

The most retarded thing about this scheme is there is no future proofing for an extra lane nor are the bridges wide enough.


Geeee, and both the M7 and M8 traffic will use this road.

Oh geeee.

NRA= dinosaurs.

Colm R

mysterious wrote: »

I love the way the more important road, "M7" stays mainline while the M8 goes TOTOS.:D

M8 you just gonna have to merge onto the mother road "M7". No M8 after this point.:P

So what. At the end of the day, its a motorway. There is no difference in the importance of the two roads. The standard in Ireland is to have roads branch off to the left. The N5 and N6 branch off the M4 to the left. The M8 and M9 goes to the left of the M7. The system gives a logical flow of numbers in an Anticlockwise direction with Dublin being the centre point.
The only exception is the N10 which goes to the right of the N9. Anyone know why this occurred back in the day. I would have thought the N9 would go to Kilkenny and the N10 to Waterford

mysterious

Colm R wrote: »

So what. At the end of the day, its a motorway. There is no difference in the importance of the two roads. The standard in Ireland is to have roads branch off to the left. The N5 and N6 branch off the M4 to the left. The M8 and M9 goes to the left of the M7. The system gives a logical flow of numbers in an Anticlockwise direction with Dublin being the centre point.
The only exception is the N10 which goes to the right of the N9. Anyone know why this occurred back in the day. I would have thought the N9 would go to Kilkenny and the N10 to Waterford

I know, but I'm just saying



The old Waterford road used to go via Kilkenny anyway.

N76. then the N10 was used from Kilkenny to Waterford.

Geogregor

BluntGuy wrote: »

http://www.m7m8scheme.ie/eis/pdfs/EIS_M7M8_Volume6_Fig5-14.pdf

So it looks like there is no possibility of going from M8 northbound to M7 westbound.
I know it's not the most important link but to avoid such connection seems strange to me. Some people from villages in central Ireland could use it to get quickly to Limerick.
Is situation the same at M9/M7 junction? Or you can go from M9 northbound to M7 westbound?


We have similar junction in Poland, A18 is branching from A4, both goes west towards Germany and there will be minimal traffic from let say A4 eastbound to A18 westbound but link is there in place just in case.

Sponge Bob

Geogregor wrote: »

there will be minimal traffic from let say A4 eastbound to A18 westbound but link is there in place just in case.

Was it built in 1938 like the rest of the a18 was ??

Geogregor

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Was it built in 1938 like the rest of the a18 was ??

A18 was built in half profile before WWII, second half was built few years ago but without rehabilitation of the old half (which is kind of joke, but they are going to do it soon)
The junction between A4 and A18 is going to be open in few months and is part of the extending A4 all the way to German border near Goerllitz.
They made junction with possibilities of going in all the direction even if A4 eastbound to A18 westbound and A18 eastbound to A4 westbound are not going to be very popular to put it mildly.


I expected something similar on M7/M8 and M7/M9 junctions.

BluntGuy

Geogregor wrote: »

I expected something similar on M7/M8 and M7/M9 junctions.

Nope. Like all Irish junctions, maximum care is taken to ensure that a long, difficult and disruptive upgrade is required in the future.

mysterious

I've seen many interchanges in other countries, all simple, some complicated, minor, some massive some free flowing etc.

All seem to have different layouts for the purpse of that interchange, I.e the movements required and built to high spec. Most seem to have free flow links. The majority have good life spans too if ever needed to be widened or whatever.

NRA is just gone beyond pathetic. Every single interchange built on the inter urbans are either Diamond or a bridge with piled on roundabouts on either side. Some engineering feats :rolleyes:

Ever hear of free flow?

mysterious

Geogregor wrote: »

A18 was built in half profile before WWII, second half was built few years ago but without rehabilitation of the old half (which is kind of joke, but they are going to do it soon)
The junction between A4 and A18 is going to be open in few months and is part of the extending A4 all the way to German border near Goerllitz.
They made junction with possibilities of going in all the direction even if A4 eastbound to A18 westbound and A18 eastbound to A4 westbound are not going to be very popular to put it mildly.


I expected something similar on M7/M8 and M7/M9 junctions.

I noticed in Poland nearly every single interchange, minor or major has a mostly free flow safer manerouving pattern

Two bridges in most cases. One to carry traffic straight over the road, and another to carry all the right on and rights offs efficiently without inflicting the local traffic if that makes sense.

Very seldom would you see the crappy diamond interchanges that you see being built here.

Cool Mo D

mysterious wrote: »

I've seen many interchanges in other countries, all simple, some complicated, minor, some massive some free flowing etc.

All seem to have different layouts for the purpse of that interchange, I.e the movements required and built to high spec. Most seem to have free flow links. The majority have good life spans too if ever needed to be widened or whatever.

NRA is just gone beyond pathetic. Every single interchange built on the inter urbans are either Diamond or a bridge with piled on roundabouts on either side. Some engineering feats :rolleyes:

Ever hear of free flow?

Only a tiny minority of motorway exits require free flow - really only when two dual carriageways meet. Dumbell interchanges work perfectly well for the vast majority of cases.

Oh, and we're not exactly the only ones to use a roundabout to join two motorways:
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=50.91333~4.343741&style=h&lvl=16&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=21009043&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

mysterious

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Only a tiny minority of motorway exits require free flow - really only when two dual carriageways meet. Dumbell interchanges work perfectly well for the vast majority of cases.

Oh, and we're not exactly the only ones to use a roundabout to join two motorways:
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=50.91333~4.343741&style=h&lvl=16&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=21009043&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

You can still build interchanges free flow cheaply.
All I'm saying, that for the majority of interchanges we build on our motorways they are just simple diamonds. Some could be built effeciently for the same cost, as left off left ons, or trumpets(which only require one bridge) longer merges, cloverleafs, free flowing lefts off rounabouts or merges to avoid the junctions on either side of the interchange. All really simple and effective with little added cost to the ****e they are currently building in this country.

What we build here is just not only unimaginatve it's boring. Like if you were to drive down the M7 every interchange is the same, diamond interchanges with roundabout's the whole way till you meet another stupid rotary the mother of the diamond types. all so cheapish and pathetic road designing..


I never said anything about our motorways end in roundabouts, you missed quoted me, I said roundabout interchanges.

Chris_533976

A trumpet would be perfect here, as it would be for the M7/M9. And Cork NRR/M8. And M20/N21.

But no, all those junctions are crappy.

Geogregor

mysterious wrote: »

I noticed in Poland nearly every single interchange, minor or major has a mostly free flow safer manerouving pattern

Two bridges in most cases. One to carry traffic straight over the road, and another to carry all the right on and rights offs efficiently without inflicting the local traffic if that makes sense.

Very seldom would you see the crappy diamond interchanges that you see being built here.

It is costly design because every junction requires two bridges.
It is done that way 'cose Polish motorway network is planed as tolled in closed system (like in France or Italy) it means you have to build toll gates on each junction. When you have two bridges you have just one toll plaza (which has cheaper operational costs I suppose)
So it has nothing to do with comfort of drivers, It's all about money
I think this kind of junction is called trumpet. But I'm not sure.
I would prefer Irish system with roundabouts. It's cheaper, easier and faster to build and it is more difficult to introduce tolls in the future

medoc

M8 North bound to M7 west bound should be at least included in the junction. It would not be a big job to put this in even if there will not be a lot of traffic making this movement. Fair enough if M7 east to M8 south is left out as this would be more expensive. I hope there is propper lighting provided though. M7/M9 junction is a disgrace in regards to lighting.

Irish and Proud

Geogregor wrote: »

It is costly design because every junction requires two bridges.
It is done that way 'cose Polish motorway network is planed as tolled in closed system (like in France or Italy) it means you have to build toll gates on each junction. When you have two bridges you have just one toll plaza (which has cheaper operational costs I suppose)
So it has nothing to do with comfort of drivers, It's all about money
I think this kind of junction is called trumpet. But I'm not sure.
I would prefer Irish system with roundabouts. It's cheaper, easier and faster to build and it is more difficult to introduce tolls in the future

...you mean Meath style interchanges like the N2 Ashbourne South and M3 Kilcarn junctions?

What amazes me is that Meath has fancy interchanges (like those mentioned above) while most other counties have to make do with diamonds and rotaries - is this anything to the with the Minister for Meath? :rolleyes:

Of course the M50 freeflows in Dublin are well justified, if not still underpowered. I would have considered high level connectors for the N3, N4 and N7 junctions - a bit like the proposed M50/M1 interchange.

Regards!