M7/M8 Portlaoise-Castletown-Cullahill Motorway (incl. Abbeyleix Bypass)

darkman2

How long is the M8 now? Is it the longest continuous stretch in the country? It's a bit confusing as someone who does not know that part of the country well. Is there gaps in it still?

Does anyone have an exact map of what is built and what is under construction?

Thanks!

Also the M7/8 section - is the Mway split going to involve an underbridge or an overbridge?

BluntGuy

darkman2 wrote: »

How long is the M8 now? Is it the longest continuous stretch in the country? It's a bit confusing as someone who does not know that part of the country well. Is there gaps in it still?

Does anyone have an exact map of what is built and what is under construction?

Thanks!

Also the M7/8 section - is the Mway split going to involve an underbridge or an overbridge?

To answer your questions:

- The M8 is the longest SINGLE NUMBER stretch of motorway in the country (102 km)

- It exists in two parts: the M8 Fermoy Bypass - 17.5km and the M8 Cullahill-Mitchelstown - 83 km

- The M4/M6 is the longest continuous stretch of motorway in the country - 112 km

- The M8 WILL be the longest stretch of continous motorway in the country when both the Fermoy - Mitchelstown scheme opens and the Dunkettle-Watergrasshill stretch of N8 is redesignated.

- EDIT: Actually, I don't know whether it's an underbridge or an overbridge. Looking at the diagram, I'd say overbridge.

- Map: www.openstreetmap.org

Amtmann

darkman2 wrote: »

How long is the M8 now? Is it the longest continuous stretch in the country? It's a bit confusing as someone who does not know that part of the country well. Is there gaps in it still?

Does anyone have an exact map of what is built and what is under construction?

Thanks!

Darkman, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M8_motorway_(Ireland)

Also the M7/8 section - is the Mway split going to involve an underbridge or an overbridge?

I'd like to know that too.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

I'd like to know that too.

BluntGuy

Actually, is it an overbridge?

I'm beginning to think it is now...

Amtmann

Very hard to tell.

Rovi??

G_R

im not a map reader or anything but that looks like an overbridge to me

Chris_533976

Looks to me like M8 north will be over the M7.

I'm looking also at where the carriageways split and where the most likely incline would be, to get one carriageway up over the other.

mysterious

The M8 NB slip flys over the M7, if you had read the CPO/EIS on this scheme you would know.:P

BluntGuy

mysterious wrote: »

The M8 NB slip flys over the M7, if you had read the CPO/EIS on this scheme you would know.:P

Could you link us to the page where it says that.

mysterious

murphaph wrote: »

How does it stand up? It might be better if you spoke about abuttments, spans and columns.

The Columns, I meant. On the non widening sections of Interurbans there are two columns directly beside each HS, meaning that the span width of the bridge is exactly to fit only D2 width road with HS. So no widening can be possible.

The one pier columns, is where the The middle column supports the over head span bridge. The Column is located in the Median, and the clearance is wide at the verges. The cost of building either bridge is no difference, I just don't see the logic in building these restrictive Two columns bridges where motorways might need an extra lane in 20 years or so.

Does this explain it more properly.

The relatively sensible aproach has been made here. There's a finite budget and the sections of motorway which could relatively easily be widened are all near their terminals, ie, near cities and larger towns (the commuter belts). The bits in the middle are running through mostly rural land past smaller towns. Most individual journies will be around the terminals and fewer journies will be intercity, despite that being the actual intention of an Inter urban road.

DUH....

I know, but not at this section of Motorway, that was my point. Some less busier sections of Motorway have room for D3 if ever needed why would they do this crack, and prevent a vital section of motorway the M7/M8 motorway D2M full capacity only. This scheme is probably the most likely motorway that is under contruction at present that should of been D3. I never stated that all motorways should have D3 capactiy for the newly built D2M motorways that we are building. The M7/M8 is a mulipurpose motorway that connects the entire southwest with the existing M7 towards Dublin. It would of been a tad smart if they had gave it D3 capacity if it was ever needed in the future. As it's likely it will be needed. But the daft thing here is, the waste of money to restrict this upgrade, and then only to waste more money on reconstructing the motorway when the D3 capacity is calling:rolleyes: There is no senisble approach here, again I have pointed out your short sighteness on another issue. Reminds me of Monastery road and Turnpike issues back in the day.

We also should remember that Ireland is NOT building a UK-like system whereby all traffic is sent to a handful of trunk roads. we are building a mini-Autobahn network where traffic will have alternative paths and so traffic will be more dispersed across the network. Most of the German Autobahn you will note is D2M, just like Ireland because in Germany (like Ireland probably) they believe in building new roads, not just repeatedly widening exixting ones (standard UK practice for the last 20+years).

Again a wasted paragraph, please re read my point's and the one's above. I never said we should be building D3 motorway everywhere. I never even said we should be future proofing every motorway with a D3 upgrade in mind either.

I specifically said busier sections of motorways that have already highly traffic sections on the year of opening. The M7 at Portloaoise is already about 25,000 a day. In 3 years when the M7/M8 opens, it will attract traffic close to 30,000. Give it 15 years minumum and your already got a full capacity motorway. It was utter stupidity to not of at least gave room for a third lane so we won't have to go spending millions upgrading and widening bridges etc.

The other (often overlooked benefit) is that a major incident on the M8 won't stop Cork-Dublin traffic from taking a motorway/motorway like road all the way to Dublin/Belfast. In the UK a major incident on the M1/M6 shuts down half the country!

Then again, Britian has a better public transport system. There are widening the vast majority of their motorway trunk routes. Such as the A1(m) M1, M6, M25 to 4/5 lanes each way in some areas. In Britain they have severe opposition to widening motorway's. I'm not to sure why, because their existing motorways are serverly congested. Britain has a very small motorway network in comparison to most European countries and thus giving Britain one of the most conjested inefficient systems in the Eurozone also.

We really shouldn't be comparing our motorway system to that of theirs anyhow.

Rovi

I went for a ramble down around the interchange this afternoon, in this area (from EIS Sheet 1-10 & EIS Sheet 1-11):


Furet's picture here shows what's actually present at the M7 intersection with the R434:

Furet wrote: »

Just a little further west along the R434 you encounter the M7 leg of the scheme. This overbridge is almost ready to realign the R434:

The new overbridge is MUCH closer to the R434 than was proposed in the EIS above, and there appears to be no provision whatsoever for the two small roundabouts or any local access to the M7 at this point.
I talked to a man who used to live in one of the houses that disappeared to make room for this bridge, and he knows of no provision for local access to the motorway.


The interconnect between the two motorways appears to be pretty much exactly as proposed in the EIS, with no West<-->South provision at all.
The Northbound M8 runs under the M7.
Essentially, it's a carbon copy of the M7-M9 interconnect between Naas and Newbridge.

I got some photos which I'll post as soon as I get a chance to edit them a bit.

Irish and Proud

BluntGuy wrote: »

Verdict!!!

The M8 NB on-ramp will pass under the M7 mainline. The ramp will be on a relatively small embankment, while the mainline will be constructed on a very large embankment. See the following link:

http://www.m7m8scheme.ie/eis/pdfs/EIS_M7M8_Volume6_Fig1-10.pdf

Regards!

mysterious

Either way I love the fact that the mother road, M7 is mainline.

MU HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!:D

MU HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHAH HA AH AHAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Ahem I got a bit carried away.

mysterious

Would it cost much to do this?

Wouldn't make more sense from a toll perspective even to build NW slips onto the M7 this would give the M7 better access. This motorway is a bit naked.

Chris_533976

Slightly offset trumpet would be the best thing and stop all this stupid nonsense about restricted interchanges.

mysterious

Chris its a trend that we don't seem to build or want to have proper interchanges. It's either a crap design, limited access and if it's not that plonk a roundabout in it:rolleyes:

We like to build an ass out of anything we design. I don't want to list examples, I'm in good humour today. So I won't be doing that:D

Zoney

Well, I hope they don't use this arrangement for M20/N21, unlike the M7/M8 or M7/M9 situations, there would be a significant amount of the N20 south traffic comes from N21 east (i.e. West Limerick to Cork).

Chris_533976

AFAIK (unconfirmed) the M20/21 will be the same

Not the end of the world in that case tho - although it'll be stupid all traffic will have to do is come off at the current Cork exit, travel down the half of the Croom bypass that wont be re-used and join the motorway.

A decent junction would be better though, but I'd rather a restricted junction than some crap with a roundabout thrown in. Do we really want a three level stack on the Cork - Limerick road? Cos thats what these folk will do if they're told "build an interchange with all the movements"

Amtmann

Rovi wrote: »

I went for a ramble down around the interchange this afternoon, in this area (from EIS Sheet 1-10 & EIS Sheet 1-11):


Furet's picture here shows what's actually present at the M7 intersection with the R434:

The new overbridge is MUCH closer to the R434 than was proposed in the EIS above, and there appears to be no provision whatsoever for the two small roundabouts or any local access to the M7 at this point.
I talked to a man who used to live in one of the houses that disappeared to make room for this bridge, and he knows of no provision for local access to the motorway.


The interconnect between the two motorways appears to be pretty much exactly as proposed in the EIS, with no West<-->South provision at all.
The Northbound M8 runs under the M7.
Essentially, it's a carbon copy of the M7-M9 interconnect between Naas and Newbridge.

I got some photos which I'll post as soon as I get a chance to edit them a bit.

Interesting. Is this where M7 junction 20 is supposed to be so?

Also, in relation to junction 3 of the M8, how do people feel about the R433 being used as the main junction point here? It is not a good road.

Rovi

Right, here we go:

(from EIS Sheet 1-10 & EIS Sheet 1-11)

With reference to Furet's photo:

Furet wrote:

...here's a view looking towards the same bridge:


...and from the same point, a view towards Dublin on the M7, in the direction of the M7-M8 interchange:



From the vantage point of a huge spoil heap;
...the M8 leg:


...the M7 leg:


...and looking 'Northbound' towards the interchange:



From the median between the M8 Northbound and Southbound lanes, looking towards the M7 overbridge:


From the centre of the M8 Northbound lanes, looking at the M7 overbridge:


From the left side of the M8 Northbound lanes as they emerge from under the M7 overbridge, looking towards the next local road (L1660) overbridge:



Closer to the local overbridge mentioned above, from the centre of the mainline, looking towards Dublin:



From the local road (L1660), looking towards the interchange:


From the same point, looking under the local overbridge towards Dublin:

Amtmann

Fantastic annotations Rovi. I'm not computer literate enough to do anything like that. Thanks very much for your efforts; you've shed a lot of light on how the interchange will work.

That interchange is a carbon copy of the M4/M6 junction at Kinnegad.

D.L.R.

Deleted User wrote: »

That interchange is a carbon copy of the M4/M6 junction at Kinnegad.

Not exactly, Due west the M4 is the mainline but due east the M6 is mainline. Bit of a quirky one. This one here is the same as the M7/M9.

Great pics thanks. Curiosity well satisfied

AugustusMaximus

Seriously though, how much extra would it cost to make this junction open to all movements. Madness.

Rovi

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Seriously though, how much extra would it cost to make this junction open to all movements. Madness.

But that would mean that motorists could use part of the scheme without going through the toll plaza, and that wouldn't do, would it? :mad:

BluntGuy

Rovi wrote: »

But that would mean that motorists could use part of the scheme without going through the toll plaza, and that wouldn't do, would it? :mad:

Well, they could've easily enough provided a M8N > M7W movement and stick a mini-toll plaza on that. Or they would've been able to, if J20 wasn't in the way.

Irish and Proud

Rovi wrote: »

Right, here we go:

Good work Rovi!

The interchange looks pretty advanced - the structures are up, the cut/fill work more or less done, now for the roads themselves - really looking foward to seeing this junction finished!

Regards!

larryone

Chris_533976 wrote: »

AFAIK (unconfirmed) the M20/21 will be the same

Not the end of the world in that case tho - although it'll be stupid all traffic will have to do is come off at the current Cork exit, travel down the half of the Croom bypass that wont be re-used and join the motorway.

A decent junction would be better though, but I'd rather a restricted junction than some crap with a roundabout thrown in. Do we really want a three level stack on the Cork - Limerick road? Cos thats what these folk will do if they're told "build an interchange with all the movements"

As the gummy bear from the Natural Confectionery Company might say:
"Bring on the Trumpets!"

Carawaystick

Am I right in thinking that a junction with the Regional route is being removed from the built road? how is that allowed?

G_R

just a quick update, nothing really important but sure here goes:

over the last week there has been a lot of activity on the cullahill terminus of the scheme.

up til last week there was loads of mounds of muck and earth piled up on the bit where the mainlin carriage way will be, these have all been flattened in the last week.

I keep meaning to bring my camera and get a pic but i kep forgetting and the one day i did remember it was lashing so sorry, ill try again this week.

There has been flashing yellow lights on the bridge beside the current N8 and on the one that is about 1k away to the west (i think) for the last 2/3 weeks aswell. These were nearly always empty up untill then.

moose112

New to this thread i do a lot of work along the route of the new M7 between Portlaoise and Borris.
Took some pictures today but am ashamed to say that i don't know how to post pictures up if someone can explain it to me i will gladly stick them up

Amtmann

Hi Moose, you can upload them to www.flickr.com or www.photobucket.com after you create a (free) account there. Then when the images are on the internet you grab the URL's address, and paste it to your boards.ie post between the following code: .

Or, you can email them to me and I'll post them for you. Send me a PM if you want to do that.

mysterious

moose112 wrote: »

New to this thread i do a lot of work along the route of the new M7 between Portlaoise and Borris.
Took some pictures today but am ashamed to say that i don't know how to post pictures up if someone can explain it to me i will gladly stick them up

Moose that would be terrific:). photobucket.com will allow you to post pics directly onto here. It's free too. Just set up an account, and zap the files from your computer onto your photobucket. Then the site will give you options how to post onto blogs, vlogs, boards sites such as this etc etc. Just copy the link for the appropriate webpage format. I.e Boards/messenger forums. Then literally paste that link onto this page..

How is the work coming on at the M7 at Borris is seems to be moving fairly fast now, and is even catching up with the M7/M8 scheme just past you. The bridges are up in many places. Has the old roads opened between Clashneven and Moneygall meaning the bridge beams are complete??

Can you please tell me why on earth are they making a mess of the Nenagh bypass interchange on this side? Three ****ing roundabouts. Could they not just build a bridge straight over the M7 and link the R445 to its original direct alligement. I'll post a pic up to try explain exactly what I mean, that ARCH BRIDGE HAS GOT TO GO....

moose112

Cheers Guys

I don't work on the motorway by the just travel the back roads around there a lot.

Here goes with my attempt anyway


http://photobucket.com/M7motorway

Amtmann

Great photos Moose, thanks a million.



I'm not liking the above image. Shades of the M6 metal barrier there. I'm going to contact the NRA about this.

moose112

Cheers

That photo was takin outside mountrath near Aghaboe looking towards Limerick.
Was talking to one of the locals he was telling me that apparently the early bonus money is now gone and the lads working on it were telling him completion date looks like September 2010

D'Peoples Voice

This toll booth is some cash cow:D

Irish and Proud

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

This toll booth is some cash cow:D

Ha, Ha, Ha... :D:D

Good one mate!

Irish and Proud

Furet wrote: »

Great photos Moose, thanks a million.
I'm not liking the above image. Shades of the M6 metal barrier there. I'm going to contact the NRA about this.

...yeah, I don't really like those metal barriers either - the concrete ones seem a much better and tidier job! Also, on the Ashbourne Bypass, the metal barriers undulate up and down a little (looks cheap), even though the surface is pretty good. I can't see such barriers being all that robust either!

Regards!

L1011

Furet wrote: »

I'm not liking the above image. Shades of the M6 metal barrier there. I'm going to contact the NRA about this.

Not sure what you mean by this? All I can see is the tensioning cable for the inside of a concrete step barrier there...

Berty

MYOB wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by this? All I can see is the tensioning cable for the inside of a concrete step barrier there...

Im unsure also what is meant by FURET. I can see the gap between carraigeways is left for the concrete safety barrier which runs the entire length of the finished sections of the M7 and M8

Amtmann

Sorry for the ambiguity guys.
The photo I posted looks exactly like a lot of Kaizer's and KevR's earlier picures of the M6. At the time, we wondered why there was a gap between the two CBM streams. We thought that this might be for a wide median central reservation, but actually, on M6 Athlone-Ballonasloe for instance, the gap was left because a metal barrier would later be installed rather than the now familiar concrete barrier.
On all of the M8 and M9 schemes that we have photos of, no gap was left between the CBM during construction, and a concrete barrier was ultimately installed.
Basically, I'm worried because it looks like the M7/M8 will be getting a metal barrier rather than a concrete one. I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this, however.

L1011

There is what seriously looks like tensioning wires for a step barrier towards the bottom of that picture (I spent enough time driving alongside them laying it on the Lucan Bypass upgrade scheme...) so I think your fears are unfounded.

anyway is that not the first layer of asphalt with the gap rather than the CBM? The CBM appears to be laid solidly across beneath it...

Amtmann

Those wires and poles don't have anything to do with the barrier at this stage - they seem to show the centre of the mainline more than anything else. This is the M-F scheme with one CBM stream plus asphalt down:



Now, here is the same position receiving the other CBM carriageway:


As you can see, no gap was left between the two CBM streams, both were fused, and the metal poles were removed, and reinstalled again with tensioning wire at a later date when the barrier was being installed.

I'm certain that that is just CBM on the M7 photo posted upthread. The tell-tale sign is the faint horizontal lines in the surface. These are also visible in the CBM photo above if you look very closely.

The CBM is given a black asphalt-like appearance when it is sprayed with a water-proofing substance:

I don't understand why a gap has been left between the two CBM stretches in Moose's photo - like I sad though, we've seen it before, in Kev's and Kaiser's photos. And there the gap was left to facilitate the later installation of a metal barrier.

Now, I actually want to be wrong on this point. I've posted the above photos and video merely to explain why I have this suspicion. I will email the NRA tomorrow and ask them directly.

Berty

Considering existing sections of the M7 have a concerete barrier it would stand to reason the entire stretch will also have this.

http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h97/quirke/?action=view&current=Nenagh-Limerick-1.flv

Dalys Cross area



http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h97/quirke/?action=view&current=Nenagh-Limerick2-1.flv

Amtmann

One would think and hope so, but the M6, which also has a concrete barrier from Kilbeggan to Athlone, will have a metal barrier from Athlone to Ballinasloe.

KevR

I emailed the NRA last week asking what their reasons were for deciding to go with a metal barrier on the Athlone-Ballinasloe scheme and if they are planning on using metal for Galway-Ballinasloe like I suspect. Still waiting to hear back but will post in the M6 thread as soon as I do.

I don't understand why they would use metal at all. It's not as safe, it has a life span of only 20 years (as opposed to 50 years for concrete), and requires a good deal more maintainence. It might cost less initially but over a 50 year period will cost a lot more.

Gone a bit off-topic there, sorry.

Chris_533976

If its cheaper initially (regardless of longterm cost) it'll be done due to Cutback Mania.

BluntGuy

KevR wrote: »

Still waiting to hear back but will post in the M6 thread as soon as I do.

I e-mailed them in December and didn't get a response.
I e-mailed them in March and didn't get a response.

It's a lucky dip job I'm afraid... don't expect a reply if your question is too testing.