Shelbourne - Celtic XI

Ronan|Raven

Thing about it is, I am of German origins in these windy and wet lands. Grew up here for most of it. I just find it hard to understand the hatred for the national leagues. I get my relations when they come over wondering why they see people walking along in the shirts of uk clubs (myself for a long time as well )

Fortuna Koln, RIP but always a place of love in my families heart. I have many friends who follow teams in the regional german lower divisions, yes it is crap and the standard may not be as amazing as the bigger leagues such as Bundesliga and the Premiership but they support them as it is part of being of your local club. It could be easier for people to head off and support Dortmund, Monchengladbach, or even the swines FC Koln *spit* but people still follow their Local clubs.

The notion of supporting a team in a different foreign league exclusively is considered alien, hell you can do both but support your own as well.

Eirebear

lol, round and round and round and round.

But can i just say one thing?
This argument has NOTHING to do with Rangers, could the Celtic fans on board please quit bringing us into it?

Just because you dont like Celtic doesnt automatically mean that you are a "hun"

DSB

shane86 wrote: »

Personally I cant see how an Irish football fan cant feel a bit of pride seeing tens of thousands of tricolours in a rainsoaked stadium somewhere in Europe on a dark winters night as Fields of Athenry is belted out.

Jaysus. Cringe.

eirebhoy

bohsman wrote: »

I think we have and can all agree that theyre not true Celtic fans but they wear the gear and riot in it and think they are true fans

I beg to differ. Only the other day I was looking at a pictures thread in the after hours forum on here. There was a picture of a regular poster on here in a Celtic tracksuit. To my knowledge he's never posted in the soccer forum. Every single Irish kid that's pro-IRA/Anti British would wear a Celtic top. Most of them wouldn't claim to be proper Celtic fans. I'm absolutely sure of that. It's been years since I tried to even talk to anyone about Celtic just because they have a Celtic top on, as they look at me as if I've 10 heads.

the boards.ie crew just don't believe me when I say the above though. I just wish all you people would actually talk to the people you try to associate with Celtic supporters. I'm sure most of you have even grown up with them.

eirebhoy

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

It would be cringeworthy. Tens of thousands of tricolours with CELTIC" wrote on them *shudder*

I don't know why you'd cringe and shudder. The only people that actually feel the way you do are some Irish and Scottish and a tiny minority of the rest of Britain. The rest of the world just see Ireland flags as it would be for us seeing thousands of Germans or Argentinians filling a stadium.

If I saw a whole stand full of Ireland flags at a European final involving Liverpool I'd feel very proud. I'm just thinking about what the world are thinking about us and an Irish flag floating across the Atlantic would make me feel proud. No matter what some Irish people like to think, the rest of the world don't cringe or shudder at Irish fans supporting foreign teams.

I don't find it cringeworthy that Polish TV have shown every Celtic game live since Boruc and Zurawski joined.
Or that there's a lot more Celtic supporters in Japan since Naka joined.
Or that Romanian newspapers are actually printing pre-season match reports of Celtic games because they're linked with Tamas.

I could go on and on and on and on. The Irish are just like any other nationality and there's no reason to cringe, shudder or feel embarrassed.

Töpher

eirebhoy wrote: »

I don't know why you'd cringe and shudder. The only people that actually feel the way you do are some Irish and Scottish and a tiny minority of the rest of Britain. The rest of the world just see Ireland flags as it would be for us seeing thousands of Germans or Argentinians filling a stadium.

A stadium full of German and Argentinian flags for a game between Lyon and Juventus (or something) would be some sight though... How can you not laugh at that? Thats what its like though. Same sort of thing.

But of course, they'd be proud just to see their flags on TV?

eirebhoy

^^ ah i missed the days of coming back from the pub and think I'm posting completely sober.

Einstürzende wrote: »

A stadium full of German and Argentinian flags for a game between Lyon and Juventus (or something) would be some sight though... How can you not laugh at that? Thats what its like though. Same sort of thing.

But of course, they'd be proud just to see their flags on TV?

Nah, with Celtic I think it's different. Any football fan knows there's links between Celtic and Ireland.

PauloMN

DSB wrote: »

How?

I'll spell it out. DesF said:

Closet? I'd swing Rangers' way on Old Firm Day, because it winds up Celtic "fans" saying I should support the "Irish/Catholic/Whatever" team. The hypocracy is brilliant.

i.e. he claims Celtic fans tell him who to support. Yet he and many other EL fans on here never stop telling people who they should support.

There's the hypocracy.

People can and should support whoever they want. If you think you're a better fan than me because you support the team physically nearest to your gaff, than so be it. I just think it's pretty pathetic that so many threads involving EL team discussions end up with EL fans bollixing on about Oirish, plastic paddies, knackers, rioting etc. whenever the word "Celtic" is mentioned.

Point of fact, from being a long time hanger-arounder in the SPL thread, I reckon the Celtic fans who post on here are probably as far removed from the above stereotype as they could possibly be.

Eirebear - I know this "argument" doesn't involve Rangers, but don't come on talking about Scots bringing non-Scottish flags to matches without expecting anyone to remind you that Rangers fans are worse in this regard. Worse in so far as RFC have no connection with Northern Ireland, aside of course from both sharing a sectarian past.

DSB

PauloMN wrote: »

People can and should support whoever they want. If you think you're a better fan than me because you support the team physically nearest to your gaff, than so be it. I just think it's pretty pathetic that so many threads involving EL team discussions end up with EL fans bollixing on about Oirish, plastic paddies, knackers, rioting etc. whenever the word "Celtic" is mentioned.

Haha fair enough, all that 'people can do what they want' babble aside, obviously people can do whatever they want, but you wouldn't find a GAA fan from Dublin supporting Meath against Dublin, or an Irish soccer fan supporting Scotland against Ireland. But when club football comes along all loyalties are thrown aside, and in my opinion this sort of fan are lesser, as in they only support the big club, but in the end its not gonna change so the slagging will probably continue.

Eirebear

PauloMN wrote: »

Eirebear - I know this "argument" doesn't involve Rangers, but don't come on talking about Scots bringing non-Scottish flags to matches without expecting anyone to remind you that Rangers fans are worse in this regard. Worse in so far as RFC have no connection with Northern Ireland, aside of course from both sharing a sectarian past.

Haha! you just cant resist it can you!

You seem to forget that my point was for the main part aimed at Shels fans who thought it was going to be great to take a Union Flag to their game.

PauloMN

DSB wrote: »

Haha fair enough, all that 'people can do what they want' babble aside, obviously people can do whatever they want, but you wouldn't find a GAA fan from Dublin supporting Meath against Dublin, or an Irish soccer fan supporting Scotland against Ireland. But when club football comes along all loyalties are thrown aside, and in my opinion this sort of fan are lesser, as in they only support the big club, but in the end its not gonna change so the slagging will probably continue.

Slagging will continue no doubt. I don't believe it's simply about the big club though. If I just wanted to support a big club, why wouldn't I just pick Man Utd? I don't think supporting Celtic is somehow an easy option. Anyway, having bravely faced the weeks of slagging in work, online, from mates etc. after the likes of Artmedia and Black Sunday, I think I've earned my right to support them. :D

Anyway, regarding local clubs... how many EL fans really support their "local" club? Are you sure there's not some under-11 team or something even more "local" to you? How many of you are REALLY supporting your local team?

PauloMN

Eirebear wrote: »

Haha! you just cant resist it can you!

No, I agree, I can't resist it.

_blank_

PauloMN wrote: »

Anyway, regarding local clubs... how many EL fans really support their "local" club? Are you sure there's not some under-11 team or something even more "local" to you? How many of you are REALLY supporting your local team?

I was involved with my local club until they did the dirty on my family, so I no longer have anything to do with them.

My brother was involved with setting up an Amateur club, with his mates, and I was their manager for a short time before work meant I could no longer be involved, the club has since folded, but last summer, and again this August, they are reforming for a Memorial Trophy game, which I am facilitating by bringing Boardeaux to play against them.

Oh yeah, I also set up and run Boardeaux which allows about twenty lads to be involved with football.

I love football, at all levels.

PauloMN

Des wrote: »

I was involved with my local club until they did the dirty on my family, so I no longer have anything to do with them.

My brother was involved with setting up an Amateur club, with his mates, and I was their manager for a short time before work meant I could no longer be involved, the club has since folded, but last summer, and again this August, they are reforming for a Memorial Trophy game, which I am facilitating by bringing Boardeaux to play against them.

Oh yeah, I also set up and run Boardeaux which allows about twenty lads to be involved with football.

I love football, at all levels.

So you don't support your local team. Save the excuses FFS.

_blank_

PauloMN wrote: »

So you don't support your local team. Save the excuses FFS.

Er...what?

Why are you getting aggressive?

PauloMN

Des wrote: »

Er...what?

Why are you getting aggressive?

Joking, sorry I should have added the icon.

bobbysands81

Gavin shels wrote: »

You've obviously never looked into, clubs do alot of advertising, but well lack of funds mean lack of advertising. Not to mention the Oirish media.:rolleyes:

Celtic are bigger here because they're latched onto their Oirish tradition, as the song goes the "The famine is over so go home" (or something like that). Plus we've a football national mainly consisting of goons.

BTW to clarifiy your last point, Celtic are British, waving a British flag would probably welcome them, No?

"The famine is over so go home."

Interesting choice of words.

Would you say to black people over here that "slavery is over so go home" or to Jewish people "the Holocaust is over so go home?"

bobbysands81

Des wrote: »

Closet? I'd swing Rangers' way on Old Firm Day, because it winds up Celtic "fans" saying I should support the "Irish/Catholic/Whatever" team. The hypocracy is brilliant.

LOL!!! So you choose a team whose fans would hate you because you are Irish??? Your hypocrisy is brilliant!

Ronan|Raven

Even from the grave bobby sands posts on the forums... **spooky noises**

Ronan|Raven

bobbysands81 wrote: »

"The famine is over so go home."

Interesting choice of words.

Would you say to black people over here that "slavery is over so go home" or to Jewish people "the Holocaust is over so go home?"

Personally, I would.

bobbysands81

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

Personally, I would.

Is racism allowed on this Board???

DSB

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Is racism allowed on this Board???

It wasn't racism.

bobbysands81

DSB wrote: »

It wasn't racism.

Really?

Telling people to go home cos they're black/Irish/Jewish is not racist?

Telling people of African origin to go back to Africa, people of Irish origin to go back to Ireland and Jewish people to go back to Israel is not racist?

The group "Show Racism the Red Card" disagrees mate.

...and I wonder why Robbie Keane was booed at Ibrox today.

DSB

He wasn't literally telling those people to go home, as in get out of the country. If he was, it'd be racism.

bobbysands81

DSB wrote: »

He wasn't literally telling those people to go home, as in get out of the country. If he was, it'd be racism.

Well what was he saying then?

A Dub in Glasgo

DSB wrote:

He wasn't literally telling those people to go home, as in get out of the country. If he was, it'd be racism

That is exactly what 'The Famine is over, go on home' means

DSB

I was under the impression he meant like get over it. Maybe I'm completely wrong though.

estebancambias

The chant is sang by Rangers fans. I don't know why Gav 'shels' used it a an example as if Rangers fans have some authority.

I wouldn't say its disgraceful, but its pretty low.

I like Celtic in fairness, but I just wish people would just go to the League of Ireland games, like in Norway. They seem to be able to support their English clubs and attend their own national league.

I hate the pro rangers sentiment on boards though, except when it cmes to eirebear.

shane86

I love all the moaning about the low attendance at EL.

A thread with Shels fans talking of bringing British flags to games and support teams whos fans boo Irish players because they are Irish, that (IIRC) didnt allow Catholic players until the 80s, a fanbase with a hatred of a Scottish team proud of their Irish roots....if many of the rest of the fans are like that is it any wonder people dont want to go and watch games in their company?

As said Im meaning to give Fingal a go soon enough, and this thread is pushing Shels into the same group as Man U and England in terms of my opinion on the team/fanbase.

Ronan|Raven

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Really?

Telling people to go home cos they're black/Irish/Jewish is not racist?

Telling people of African origin to go back to Africa, people of Irish origin to go back to Ireland and Jewish people to go back to Israel is not racist?

The group "Show Racism the Red Card" disagrees mate.

...and I wonder why Robbie Keane was booed at Ibrox today.

I told a fella from Mayo once to go back to Westport.

Ronan|Raven

It was meant as get over it. The famine happened a long long time before the lot of us on here even before Bobby Sands up there but he would be used to being hungry.

shane86

shane86 wrote: »

this thread is pushing Shels into the same group as Man U and England in terms of my opinion on the team/fanbase.

Actually you can omit the word "team" from that, as Im sure most of the team are grand. As Im sure are the Man U and the England team- it is large proportions of the fans of both I have an issue with.

Im sure also that there are a few Celtic supporters among the actual Shels squad who would have thought it was rather bad form to bring a union jack to the match.

bobbysands81

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

I told a fella from Mayo once to go back to Westport.

Have you ever been told to go back to Germany?

Töpher

Hang on! Did anyone bring a British flag? Is all this ranting because Gavin made a comment in jest? I didn't see any British flags, and doubt anyone ever seriously thought of bringing one. Jesus H. Christ! Talk about overreaction!

DSB

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there were no union jacks. I certainly didn't see one.

bohsman

I used to tell all sorts of nationalities to go home, they were always happy enough about it.

Gavin "shels"

Einstürzende wrote: »

Hang on! Did anyone bring a British flag? Is all this ranting because Gavin made a comment in jest? I didn't see any British flags, and doubt anyone ever seriously thought of bringing one. Jesus H. Christ! Talk about overreaction!

No Union Jacks (although a few goons with green hairspray, etc...).:D



In reply to your question shane86 "....if many of the rest of the fans are like that is it any wonder people dont want to go and watch games in their company?"

This was posted on Shelsweb,

My mate texted me last night saying that they were talking about LOI on the *spit* Adrian Kennedy Phone Show *spit*. One of the clowns on it came out with an absolute gem. In trying to justify supporting Liverpool rather than an LOI club he came out with something along the lines of-

"The reason everyone supports Premiership teams over League of Ireland is because it's been around longer. I mean like, how long has the League of Ireland (and LOI teams) been around?"

Shelbourne FC founded 1895
Bohemian FC founded 1890
Shamrock Rovers FC founded 1901

I mean, talk about Johnny Come Lately's alright..... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Some lad I must say, never heard a better excuse myself.:pac:

Eirebear

Once again, Celtic fans on here have managed to turn this into an anti-Rangers thread.

Its really quite impressive i must say.

Bobbysands, Robbie Keane has claimed on umpteen occasions his affiliation with Celtic, an affiliation i have no doubt comes about simply because he is Irish. He has been up and down to support Celtic at Old Firm games etc on numerous occasions, even claiming once that he would love to play for Celtic.
That all changed when (as is the case with many Irish "Celtic supporters") Liverpool came around, and then he had only ever supported them all his life.
Should we applaud his every tough then?

As for the "famine" song, its not something i agree with in the slightest believe me.
But then again, i do know people born and bred in Scotland, with no Irish parentage and have never even been in Ireland.
Yet they still somehow claim to be Irish, even to the extent of going and standing in the Ireland end at Hampden when they played Scotland a few years ago.
I have been told "Irishness is a state of mind"
I have FAMILY who told me as a ten year old boy, that i would not be allowed to support Rangers when my parents moved with me to Ireland.
That i would spend my life getting my head kicked in and as i got older, that i was a disgrace to the family, an embarrassment because I spent my life in Ireland and proudly wore my Rangers top about the place.
By the way, these family members were born and raised in Glasgow.

So i can understand why people with a certain mentality or political view might get a bit pissed off.

DSB

Eirebear wrote: »

I have been told "Irishness is a state of mind''

Thats hilarious.

Eirebear

DSB wrote: »

Thats hilarious.

If it wasnt true it would be.....

BTW, the pages dont seem to be loading properly for me today. I cant see any buttons or smileys...is it just me?

DSB

Nah its the same for me. Plus, could a Celtic fan who gos to home games please clarify whether Sinn Fein and IRA are added into the Fields Of Athenry song over in Scotland too? Or is it just the Oirish fans who are that pathetic?

Eirebear

DSB wrote: »

Nah its the same for me. Plus, could a Celtic fan who gos to home games please clarify whether Sinn Fein and IRA are added into the Fields Of Athenry song over in Scotland too? Or is it just the Oirish fans who are that pathetic?

The answer to that will be: Not at games, especially at Parkhead.

I probably believe that to be true, although ive heard the away fans singing it often enough.
However if you go into a pub full of Celtic fans or the like, you will hear it.

DSB

Oh right, it is stuff like that which confuses to me as to why Celtic fans are surprised at the contempt the non-political ordinary football fan has for Celtic.

bobbysands81

DSB wrote: »

Thats hilarious.

So is Paul McGrath Irish?

Is David O'Leary?

Is Phil Babb? (who was interviewed in Shoot as a kid stating that he wanted to play for Ireland)

Is Stephen Roche's son Irish? He was born in France but cycles for Ireland.

What about John Barnes being English? (Jamaican)

Terry Butcher? (Swedish)

...or how about Shaun Maloney... should he play for Malaysia?

The Irish diaspora has spread far and wide, these people have every right to see themselves as Irish if they feel they are Irish.

DSB

Ahahaha. Just throw Andy Townsend in there for an extra chuckle.

bobbysands81

Eirebear wrote: »

Once again, Celtic fans on here have managed to turn this into an anti-Rangers thread.

Its really quite impressive i must say.

Bobbysands, Robbie Keane has claimed on umpteen occasions his affiliation with Celtic, an affiliation i have no doubt comes about simply because he is Irish. He has been up and down to support Celtic at Old Firm games etc on numerous occasions, even claiming once that he would love to play for Celtic.
That all changed when (as is the case with many Irish "Celtic supporters") Liverpool came around, and then he had only ever supported them all his life.
Should we applaud his every tough then?

As for the "famine" song, its not something i agree with in the slightest believe me.
But then again, i do know people born and bred in Scotland, with no Irish parentage and have never even been in Ireland.
Yet they still somehow claim to be Irish, even to the extent of going and standing in the Ireland end at Hampden when they played Scotland a few years ago.
I have been told "Irishness is a state of mind"
I have FAMILY who told me as a ten year old boy, that i would not be allowed to support Rangers when my parents moved with me to Ireland.
That i would spend my life getting my head kicked in and as i got older, that i was a disgrace to the family, an embarrassment because I spent my life in Ireland and proudly wore my Rangers top about the place.
By the way, these family members were born and raised in Glasgow.

So i can understand why people with a certain mentality or political view might get a bit pissed off.

Robbie Keane has stated an affinity with Celtic (as far as I remember) but his club has always been Liverpool. Do you really not think that the reason that some of the fans at Ibrox booed him might be because he is Irish? To be truthful, I do.

Thank you for being honest about the famine song, I respect that and I will show you the same courtesy back with honesty at all times.

As for nationality, I firmly believe that a piece of paper cannot determine where you come from. Look at Shaun Maloney... do you really think he's Malaysian???

Whether you like it or not Rangers are seen as an anti-Catholic, anti-Irish club, any cursory look at the history of your club will back this up. Before John Spencer signed, and UEFA were going to start investigating, there was no interest in the club sorting this discrimination out (for the record I have absolutely no interest in any religion of any kind and couldn't care less about any religion). Out of interest who was the last Irish international that played for you lot?

That the Billy Boys with it's lyrics "up to our knees in Fenian Blood, Surrender or you'll die: has only been tackled recently is astonishing! Imagine if the word "n i gger" was there instead of "Fenian", what kind of response would have come from the authorities years ago do you think?

Finally, you say Robbie Keane is booed because he is a Celtic fan playing at Ibrox. Does Zander Diamond and the other legions of Scottish born Celtic fans get booed for the same reason... or is it only reserved for Irish born Celtic fans??? I think we both know the answer to that one.

bobbysands81

DSB wrote: »

Ahahaha. Just throw Andy Townsend in there for an extra chuckle.

Nicely side stepping the question.

Why won't you answer it?

DSB

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Nicely side stepping the question.

Why won't you answer it?

My answer is, thats just hilarious. By that logic I can just decide that I'm Chinese, but because I want it enough, I'm Chinese, as Chinese is a state of mind or whatever.

Eirebear

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Robbie Keane has stated an affinity with Celtic (as far as I remember) but his club has always been Liverpool. Do you really not think that the reason that some of the fans at Ibrox booed him might be because he is Irish? To be truthful, I do.

Thank you for being honest about the famine song, I respect that and I will show you the same courtesy back with honesty at all times.

As for nationality, I firmly believe that a piece of paper cannot determine where you come from. Look at Shaun Maloney... do you really think he's Malaysian???

Whether you like it or not Rangers are seen as an anti-Catholic, anti-Irish club, any cursory look at the history of your club will back this up. Before John Spencer signed, and UEFA were going to start investigating, there was no interest in the club sorting this discrimination out (for the record I have absolutely no interest in any religion of any kind and couldn't care less about any religion). Out of interest who was the last Irish international that played for you lot?

That the Billy Boys with it's lyrics "up to our knees in Fenian Blood, Surrender or you'll die: has only been tackled recently is astonishing! Imagine if the word "n i gger" was there instead of "Fenian", what kind of response would have come from the authorities years ago do you think?

Finally, you say Robbie Keane is booed because he is a Celtic fan playing at Ibrox. Does Zander Diamond and the other legions of Scottish born Celtic fans get booed for the same reason... or is it only reserved for Irish born Celtic fans??? I think we both know the answer to that one.

I know the problems my club has had in the past, but at the end of the day those problems where a symptom of scottish society at the time, and in many ways still are.

I have been living back in Glasgow for a year now, and believe me, the sectarianism on both sides completely blows me away at times.
And usually coming from people entirely uneducated in any sense of the word.

But as ive said previously in the thread, the conversation is about Irish people's problem with Celtic. Not Rangers.

Zander Diamond get religiously booed ('scuse the pun! ) at Ibrox, even more so since his recent bebo mistakes.

While were at it...who was the player that Irish fans mistakenly jeered when they thought he was Peter Lovendkrandz? What about Shota Arveladze? Where they right to do this?

bobbysands81

DSB wrote: »

My answer is, thats just hilarious. By that logic I can just decide that I'm Chinese, but because I want it enough, I'm Chinese, as Chinese is a state of mind or whatever.

No, you're just being idiotic and facetious and intentionally (due to your prejudice) you're missing the point I'm trying to make.

Incidentally Andy Townsend was not born in Ireland, did not want to be Irish, does not consider himself Irish, yet legally he is seen as being Irish... much in the same way you want to be Chinese. Now that kind of makes a mockery of things eh?