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Toll Plaza to come down in one day?

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2

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    #32
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Its cool - lets move on!


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    #33
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,910 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Tipsy Mac wrote: »
    Anyone know if the additional gantrys are going at just the intersection of the M1 and M50 or will they also be put at a midway point of Finglas exit?

    Wha? The M50 is, and will continue to be, free from the N3 to the M1/M50. The couldn't not put gantries further clockwise than this as they'd not know who joined after the fact!

    ONLY the existing toll is being replaced, no further tolls.


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    #34
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,811 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    MYOB wrote: »
    Wha? The M50 is, and will continue to be, free from the N3 to the M1/M50. The couldn't not put gantries further clockwise than this as they'd not know who joined after the fact!

    ONLY the existing toll is being replaced, no further tolls.
    In other words, its still only the bridge that is being tolled!


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    #35
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    MYOB wrote: »
    Theres more than one camera gantry, worst comes to the worst (for them!) you get free ride I guess?

    However, it'd take something to slow traffic down - at top speed, HGVs with safe seperation wouldn't be close enough to make the plates unreadable. Note I said safe though...

    I was thinking of the rush-hour 2kmh queues which despite their best efforts are not going to totally disappear.
    MYOB wrote: »
    Wha? The M50 is, and will continue to be, free from the N3 to the M1/M50. The couldn't not put gantries further clockwise than this as they'd not know who joined after the fact!

    ONLY the existing toll is being replaced, no further tolls.

    Funny you should mention that - I read somewhere, and can't for the life of me remember where, that ultimately the tolls would run from sandyford to the M1 with ANPR cameras on all exits. I'm beginning to think I was dreaming it as I can't find anything to back it up.
    Did I imagine this or was it on the cards and got scrapped?


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    #36
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,587 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    SteveC wrote: »
    Funny you should mention that - I read somewhere, and can't for the life of me remember where, that ultimately the tolls would run from sandyford to the M1 with ANPR cameras on all exits. I'm beginning to think I was dreaming it as I can't find anything to back it up.
    Did I imagine this or was it on the cards and got scrapped?

    it was rumoured and reported a few times, but denied.


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    #37
    milltown
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭milltown


    daRobot wrote: »
    Anyone know if the cameras will read the front or back plate?

    If they plan to continue charging motorcyclists they will have to be able to read back plates.


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    #38
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,319 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Bikes will be free, afair.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #39
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    esel wrote: »
    Bikes will be free, afair.
    About time, I had great pleasure pulling up at a toll booth on a motorbike at rush hour, getting off the bike, taking my gloves off, rooting in all 8 pockets for change, paying your one by hand, putting gloves back on, all in the space of 5 minutes :D
    milltown wrote: »
    If they plan to continue charging motorcyclists they will have to be able to read back plates.

    They would need a magnifying glass to read some of the bike plates around the city, I dont know how some of them still away with it. I was cautioned a few years ago to change my plate to a standard one.


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    #40
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,379 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    That was in Holland 5 years ago, more than likely ANPR technology has come along way since then.


    I would presume the plasa area will be dotted with cameras to catch out any potential offender from the front or rear.

    Some idea of what the M50 plasa will look like except they will have three e-pass lanes.

    SR_417_University_Toll_Plazaa.jpg

    The thing about vision systems is that the problems are very complex. The average person thinks vision problems are simple, cause the human brain is excellent at solving vision tasks, and has built up a massive knowledge about the "real world" and how objects move / relate within it.

    In the above example of a car tail-gating a HGV, It would be very difficult / complex for a computer to extract the shape of the back of the car from the shape of the truck. If you ask a human to do the same task, they will quickly be able to do it, and more than likely will tell you the make/model of car and even have a guess at what size engine it has!

    Quite often the way to solve complex vision problems is to constrain the inputs to the system, eg ensure a min distance between cars, a maximum speed, control lighting conditions etc...


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    #41
    milltown
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭milltown


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    About time, I had great pleasure pulling up at a toll booth on a motorbike at rush hour, getting off the bike, taking my gloves off, rooting in all 8 pockets for change, paying your one by hand, putting gloves back on, all in the space of 5 minutes :D

    I was far too nice! If I was setting out on a trip that involved the M50 I used to put the correct change into my glove before I left.


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    #42
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,748 ✭✭✭degsie


    Just thinking about this. If a tow truck is towing/carrying a car how would the camera system handle this? If two different plates are showing in such close proximity which one gets charged?


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    #43
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,910 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    SteveC wrote: »
    I was thinking of the rush-hour 2kmh queues which despite their best efforts are not going to totally disappear.

    The queues will be moving faster than 2kmh though - at least once the N3 junction is done. Could easily be some problems to begin with!


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    #44
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    milltown wrote: »
    I was far too nice! If I was setting out on a trip that involved the M50 I used to put the correct change into my glove before I left.
    You would still have to stop the bike, remove your gloves root for this cash and take about the same time to do all this as it would have left about 5 cars through.


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    #45
    Riche670
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭Riche670


    MYOB wrote: »
    The entire plaza - you'd never safely be able to go through the remains of gates at 100kph.

    We could have a lot of fun trying!:rolleyes:


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    #46
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    On a related note I currently have an eazypass. At the moment the toll plaza can barely read it when i'm stopped at the plaza so how do they expect to read it when i'm passing the gantry at 100KmH?


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    #47
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,910 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Beano wrote: »
    On a related note I currently have an eazypass. At the moment the toll plaza can barely read it when i'm stopped at the plaza so how do they expect to read it when i'm passing the gantry at 100KmH?

    Position it correctly! The only people I ever see with tag problems have them on backwards (the antenna is on one side). Or those that assume you need to wave the tag at the reader. NTR should be able to send you a new mounting sticker if you can't re-sticky the old one.


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    #48
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    About time, I had great pleasure pulling up at a toll booth on a motorbike at rush hour, getting off the bike, taking my gloves off, rooting in all 8 pockets for change, paying your one by hand, putting gloves back on, all in the space of 5 minutes :D

    Great pleasure why? The only people that stupidness annoys is other drrivers. The person taking the tolls isnt losing out and is going nowhere regardless of whether you take 10 secs or 10 mins.

    I bet your the first one to get annoyed at the gob****es in cars that wait till they get to the barrier before starting to root for change.


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    #49
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Great pleasure why? The only people that stupidness annoys is other drrivers. The person taking the tolls isnt losing out and is going nowhere regardless of whether you take 10 secs or 10 mins.

    I bet your the first one to get annoyed at the gob****es in cars that wait till they get to the barrier before starting to root for change.

    Sounds like you're the one that gets annoyed by them.


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    #50
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    Sounds like you're the one that gets annoyed by them.

    I'd imagine everyone does ,my point was that in a similar situation run_to_da_hills would be pissed off if someone in a car did more or less the same as he does on his bike. Taking some enjoyment out of holding up "the man" by slowing paying when on the M50 is stupid and pointless as the only ones you annoy are other road users. It makes no difference to the people working on the bridge or the owners.


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    #51
    chris85
    Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    My hate is going down the eazypass to avoid the queue to get there and some idiot not having an eazypass and holding up the traffic.


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    #52
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Stekelly wrote: »
    I'd imagine everyone does ,my point was that in a similar situation run_to_da_hills would be pissed off if someone in a car did more or less the same as he does on his bike. Taking some enjoyment out of holding up "the man" by slowing paying when on the M50 is stupid and pointless as the only ones you annoy are other road users. It makes no difference to the people working on the bridge or the owners.
    Bikers have been a pain in the ass for the M50 toll bridge since it opened and MAG Ireland have been protesting to them about the safety of the barriers and dropping the charges.

    They probably lost more money from bikers than they gained from them in civil lawsuits because of the barriers coming down and hitting them. My ex won a settlement out of them when a boom almost knocked her off her bike, that same week two cops were hit by booms on escort duties and I believe hiundreds more cases.

    The booms operate automatically with a camera and motorcycles often give a false reading. The worst case is when several bikes pass through at a time it confuses the system.


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    #53
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    On a related note I currently have an eazypass. At the moment the toll plaza can barely read it

    The existing toll bridge tag readers are not sensitive as they are very concerned about which lane you are in order to lift the correct barrier. The new system will just read any tag passing under the barrier in any lane. Mine hardly seems to work on the toll bridge, but gives no problems on the M1 express lane.

    Do you suppose they will have a test week or two in August? It would be handy if it could generate a zero cost transaction in your easypass account, so that you knew it worked.


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    #54
    pburns
    Registered Users Posts: 2,423 ✭✭✭pburns


    chris85 wrote: »
    When on the phone with the guy from eflow earlier he said its operational from the 30th August (i think, definitly at the end of August sometime from what he said)

    All tags should be sent out about the 18th August or so he said.

    I'm using the M50 on Fri - 1st Aug to bring someone to airport.

    So it's definetely not operational until the end of August? (I'm a country bumpkin:D!)


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    #55
    dingding
    Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭dingding


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    About time, I had great pleasure pulling up at a toll booth on a motorbike at rush hour, getting off the bike, taking my gloves off, rooting in all 8 pockets for change, paying your one by hand, putting gloves back on, all in the space of 5 minutes :D

    Such disrespect for other road users. You still had to pay so the toll company were not loosers, just the traffic in the Q behind you. :mad:

    Why should bikers not have to pay the toll, they are road users. :mad:

    Are bikers above the toll system :eek:


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    #56
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Stekelly wrote: »
    I'd imagine everyone does ,my point was that in a similar situation run_to_da_hills would be pissed off if someone in a car did more or less the same as he does on his bike. Taking some enjoyment out of holding up "the man" by slowing paying when on the M50 is stupid and pointless as the only ones you annoy are other road users. It makes no difference to the people working on the bridge or the owners.

    It takes the same amount of time weather he takes enjoyment or not. So what difference does it make? So don't worry about it:cool:


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    #57
    dingding
    Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭dingding


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Bikers have been a pain in the ass for the M50 toll bridge since it opened and MAG Ireland have been protesting to them about the safety of the barriers and dropping the charges.

    They probably lost more money from bikers than they gained from them in civil lawsuits because of the barriers coming down and hitting them. My ex won a settlement out of them when a boom almost knocked her off her bike, that same week two cops were hit by booms on escort duties and I believe hiundreds more cases.

    The booms operate automatically with a camera and motorcycles often give a false reading. The worst case is when several bikes pass through at a time it confuses the system.

    Surely whether you pay or not will not lesten the risk of been hit by the barrier. Perhaps they were hit with the barrier while getting off the bike, taking my gloves off, rooting in all 8 pockets for change, paying your one by hand, putting gloves back on, all in the space of 5 minutes


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    #58
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    dingding wrote: »
    Such disrespect for other road users. You still had to pay so the toll company were not loosers, just the traffic in the Q behind you. :mad:

    Why should bikers not have to pay the toll, they are road users. :mad:

    Are bikers above the toll system :eek:
    As I said before and Mag pointed out these automatic barriers used by the Westlink were a H&S risk to bikers and nothing was ever done about it. Being awkward was the biking community's way of protesting about them.

    I will say again, bikers made more legal claims against the toll bridge than any other form of transport and these were from the barriers. They were also up to five times slower passing the toll than four wheel transport because of the hassle of having to stop and remove gloves and get change.

    The only reason they are letting them free now is that they have not developed a suitable weather resistant tracking device for motorcycles.


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    #59
    Mezcita
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Mezcita


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    As I said before and Mag pointed out these automatic barriers used by the Westlink were a H&S risk to bikers and nothing was ever done about it. Being awkward was the biking community's way of protesting about them. And I will say again, bikers made more legal claims against the toll bridge than any other form of transport and these were from the barriers. Even if a biker paid the toll as quick as he could five cars would have passed within the same space of time.

    Perhaps then, bikers could have protested by not using the M50.

    Nah, best p.iss off other road users instead.


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    #60
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    I think bikers (under the barrier system) should have been allowed pass free. As said, they take time to pay - through no fault of their own - and they also relieve congestion by taking up less precious road space.


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    #61
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Mezcita wrote: »
    Perhaps then, bikers could have protested by not using the M50.

    Nah, best p.iss off other road users instead.
    Bikers have every right to use the M50 as they pay road tax. Infact the NRA have absolutly no regarg for motorcycle safety in this country, apart from the barriers being a H&S risk they also installed hundreds of miles of lethal cable barriers across the country, (Probably got these cheap through some Fina Fail back hander as they were banned in Holland already before Ireland ever installed them).

    Back on topic as a biker I am glad to see the end of toll barriers but also as a van driver I don't like the idea of having to give away my personal details away every time I pass this particular point along the M50.


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