Victim of road rage - advice needed

bauderline

Climate Expert wrote: »

Throat slit? How do you come to that conclusion you little werido?



I'm one of these nutters so I'm not too scared what other road users are going to do.

I am neither little nor weird... please refrain from personal abuse.

Calina

Please take it easy on each other. Just because feelings run high doesn't allow carte blanche for insults and personal abuse. Insults and personal abuse give me carte blanche for infractions, warnings and bannings which cut into my value time.

This has 30 minutes before I decide whether it's better placed in Motors or locked. I'm betting on locked.

______________________

grenache

God i leave the thread for 24 hours and its a case of 'forum rage' when i return

To reply to some of your comments/questions:

Clare_Guy wrote: »

"driving up her ass" is subjective, the person behind may have a different opinion about how close they were. She has admitted she "brake-tested" him on a wet surface.

I am a 'he' thank you

MYOB wrote: »

This is lethally dangerous and can get you done for dangerous driving if you're seen / reported doing it.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i was always taught to keep the car behind you at a safe distance always. I gently braked, i did not 'slam on the brakes' and do a 180 on the road!! If i had to brake to avoid a car in front of me, would this be an offence too?? People have to brake for all sort of reasons in wet weather, as far as i'm concerned i was keeping him a safe distance from me. He was the antagoniser in this situation, not me.

Deleted User wrote: »

A question for the OP did the rager follow you through the checkpoint?

After i pulled off, they were questioned by the guard, i pulled in home barely half a mile back the road and did not see him behind me.

stovelid wrote: »

I asked if they were because they mentioned 'pulling in' to let him pass.

The offending driver was clearly wrong to tailgate and especially to switch on his full beams, but it rarely happens to me. That's because I don't expect a medal for observing the speed limit while hogging the overtaking lane. While, again, I don't in any way condone what he did, you are going to get more than your share of clowns like this tailgating you if you hog lanes.

Apologies OP, if you were not in the overtaking lane!

By 'pulling in', i meant pulling in to the hard shoulder. I never made any mention of a dual carriageway, i was driving on a single lane stretch of road, in a line of about 8 cars, with this neantherdal stuck up my backside.

Calina wrote: »

This has 30 minutes before I decide whether it's better placed in Motors or locked. I'm betting on locked.

Don't lock it please, i want to hear what people have to say.

L1011

grenache wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i was always taught to keep the car behind you at a safe distance always. I gently braked, i did not 'slam on the brakes' and do a 180 on the road!! If i had to brake to avoid a car in front of me, would this be an offence too?? People have to brake for all sort of reasons in wet weather, as far as i'm concerned i was keeping him a safe distance from me. He was the antagoniser in this situation, not me..

You can't make a car behind you keep distance. Tapping the brakes is extremely dangerous - it could cause the car behind to slam on and cars to go in to him, or if you do it repeatedly then brake for real, cause the car to ram you at full speed as they've "learnt" that your spoofing. This is why it is classed as dangerous driving, both by driving professionals and the Gardai.

In wet weather it is even worse as braking distances are increased, so Mr Tailgater has even more chance of ramming you if he ignores for a second, or of whoever is a "safe distance" in their eyes for dry weather behind him to ram him if he slams on.

I'd suggest you read Roadcraft or any similar advanced driving manual before attempting to police other drivers driving again. Thats the job of the police, and the correct response - which admittedly you also did - was to report the driver in question. The Gardai are surprisingly good at following up on reported incidents, and theres even a number to do it 'on the go' so to speak, 1890 205 805.

bauderline

grenache wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i was always taught to keep the car behind you at a safe distance always. I gently braked, i did not 'slam on the brakes' and do a 180 on the road!! If i had to brake to avoid a car in front of me, would this be an offence too?? People have to brake for all sort of reasons in wet weather, as far as i'm concerned i was keeping him a safe distance from me. He was the antagoniser in this situation, not me.

I think this is the fundamental issue here. I have no doubt that this guy was driving to close behind you and was making you feel uncomfortable and unsafe. No doubt about it his driving was dangerous. However it is not legitimate to break in order to control the driving or the distance of the car behind you. You will not find this practice in the highway code or any relevant driving manual. The reason for this is simple, its DANGEROUS, you cannot control behind you just like you cannot control the car in front of you, what you can do with the car in front is allow a safe distance between you and him that in the event he gets into trouble you have sufficient time to avoid and take appropriate action.

If someone is driving up your rear pull over at a safe location and let them past, that is the only safe thing to do.

If you break gently to try to get him to put more distance between the cars you run the risk of firstly him driving into the back of you beacause he is more concerned with trying to get past you, secondly your actions may only serve to aggravate the hell out them, which whilst may give you a modicum of satisfaction may cause the offending drive to start driving in an even more erratic fashion possibly leading to crash and serious injury to yourself or other road users.

"Gentle Breaking" is not a legitimate or safe tactic. Don't do it. The roads are dangerous enough already.

That's my opinion.. for what's it worth.


I do feel your pain though.

B.

stovelid

Grenache,

I didn't say you were on the dual carriageway. I asked.

'Gently braking' and slamming on the brakes looks exactly the same to the car behind.

Being tailgated is a pain in the arse (and the guy sounds like a clown) but your (from your posts anyway) continuing anger, defensiveness, and desire to teach him a lesson seems to suggest that you're playing down how much you braked and/or how much you were determined to 'get your own back'.

When you say you want to hear what people say, I get the feeling that you really want us to say what you want to hear?

Just what comes across anyway.

grenache

stovelid wrote: »

Grenache,

I didn't say you were on the dual carriageway. I asked.

My apologies, my reply was ment for Clare Guy who took the assumption that i was blocking the overtaking lane of a dual carriageway.

stovelid wrote: »

to teach him a lesson seems to suggest that you're playing down how much you braked and/or how much you were determined to 'get your own back'.

When you say you want to hear what people say, I get the feeling that you really want us to say what you want to hear?

Just what comes across anyway.

No i'm very open minded, and if I in some way exasparated the situation then i will take my part of the blame for it.
I understand that perhaps i was wrong to brake, but it wasn't out of any anger or wanting to 'get my own back' that i did this. Of that i can assure you. I am not an aggressive driver. I simply wanted him to keep his distance from me. Imagine if for some reason, i did have to brake hard, because of an obstacle up ahead. Where would he be then? Half way up my axle no doubt!

I am taking on board what people are saying, and in future, i think pulling into the hard shoulder would be a better course of action. I am still in two minds whether to give a statement to the cops or not, its the full headlights that really made me furious. That was far more dangerous and callous an act than my braking.

Vel

I just want to make a point in relation to the perception that some people may have that now that this case has been reported it will go to court. I was assaulted by a driver while cycling my bike a few months ago and reported the incident to the Guards. The driver of the car denied my allegations and as such it was my word against his as there were no witnesses. Because I wasn't injured (although I was physically assaulted), when questioned the guy could not be cautioned and was not required to answer any questions or make a formal statement. I made a formal statement and as such he was required to present himself at the station but he continued to deny any encounter and couldn't be cautioned to make a statement. The file was sent to the Superintendant who decides if there is enough evidence to refer the file to the DPP and in my case he felt there wasn't so nothing is going to happen. The only consolation for me is that this guy had a Guard call to his door and had to present himself at the station, so at the very least he was inconvenienced and it may make him think before he decides to act like an aggressive idiot again. Also, if he is ever reported for any driving offences, the details pertaining to my complaint against him will be on the system.

I think in cases like this, even if nothing happens you have done the right thing in reporting him. Its this culture of giving out but not bothering to do anything about it which plays a part in why people like him act like they do.

Fighting Irish

I keep water balloons full of paint in a bucket in my car for situations like this, its works much better than brake checking

Fighting Irish

Doesn't matter how much of a pri(k someone is being, if theres room for you to pull in slightly, always pull in and let him by

meanmachine3

anotherlostie wrote: »

I would hardly call sticking to the speed limit justifiable grounds for being antagonised by someone!

OP, Good luck with things.

i didn't say it was justifible. what i'm trying to say here is that most tailgating happens when people who know how to drive actually stick to the speed limits. the speed limits set out are the max for a particular type of road, not the minimum as alot of tailgaters think.
and TB.H. what the O.P. did would not be seen as antaganoising in my opinion.
some of the posters are saying pull over to the hard shoulder and let the tailgater through. thats all fine if you have hardshoulders to do that, but most of the roads leading into dublin city centre dont have hard shoulders.
plus i stand to be corrected on this one but i believe it's illegal to use a hard shoulder unless it's a break down of some sort.
there are lots of roads where you cant do anything but put up with tailgating ,also i know it's been law for quite a while now but i've never heard of anyone getting done for tailgating and yet it's one of the most common things you'll ever see while driving.

Calina

Okay, I'm under somewhat less pressure now so will respond to this. It's on its way over to Motors as well but if the mods there have any strong feelings about it, they can bat it back and I'll close it on C&T.

OP, on occasion, I have to make the following declaration of interest: braking, however softly, was not a sensible thing to do. What would you have done if he had hit you? Getting rear-ended is nothing other than wholly inconvenient and not without risks. Braking was one of the worst things you could do. It's not a question of "perhaps" you were wrong. You were wrong on several grounds, the key one is that it poses a massive risk to yourself, much more than headlights in your rearview mirror. Did you really want to be rear-ended at that speed? You brake when you have to brake, and reasons do not include "teaching the driver behind you a lesson that they are too close".

With respect to the question of being a victim of road-rage, I'm sorry, I don't buy it. There are plenty of stupid drivers around. For the most part, road-rage is what happens when you respond to that stupidity with some aggression. From my point of view, by braking to try and alter another driver's behaviour, it was you who were doing the roadraging. Yes, the other driver should not have been driving up your rear end, but most of what you appear to be complaining about would never have happened if you hadn't braked. Yes, the guy was aggressive and nasty but frankly, I would not have behaved the way you did in the situation you were in.

Sponge Bob

Braking with your left foot while accelerating with your right is how I get rid of tailgaters:)

A blue strobe light in the rear window works even better

fletch

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Braking with your left foot while accelerating with your right is how I get rid of tailgaters:)

I used to do that but my new car throws a wobbly when I do it and kills power :eek:
Now I tend to spray the windscreen washers to annoy them....if that doesn't work, go into too high a gear and floor it (which billows out smoke from my diesel ), failing that I just continue along my way.

peasant

Pull in where it's safe to do so, let the idiot pass an then ...most imortantly ...keep well back and don't retaliate ...that's how you do it

Brian?

MYOB wrote: »

This is lethally dangerous and can get you done for dangerous driving if you're seen / reported doing it.

Braking at any time, even jamming on fully is not dangerous unless the car behind you is not keeping a safe distance.

I'm not saying I agreee with tipping the brakes to get someone to back off is right, but if the OP did have to brake for an unknown reason it would amount to the same hazard to the car behind. The hazard is from not driving at a safe distance not braking. Never braking.

Calina

But for me, there is some importance attached to intent. Effectively, the OP braked not because of an emergency ahead - which is justifiable - but to cause the driver behind to change their behaviour. In so doing, they could have directly caused an accident.

Surely accident avoidance is better? "They were too close and what if there was an accident, so I braked and did cause an accident" is no justification.

I'll give you that driving too close is a hazard. But braking for this reason strikes me as wrong and contributory to any potential accident. Leave the braking for when the road ahead demands it.

peasant

briankeating wrote: »

Braking at any time, even jamming on fully is not dangerous unless the car behind you is not keeping a safe distance.

The hazard is from not driving at a safe distance not braking. Never braking.

Wrong!

Braking when you have to is one thing ...needlessly braking (or just slowing down) because someone is hitching a lift on your tow bar quite another.

Also ...consider this ...if you brake hard to avoid running over a small animal and this causes the car behind you to crash into you ...it will be your fault. You should have just run over the bunny-wabbit and not endangered the people in the other car behind you.

And lastly ...the tailgaiter behind you is already raging ...enraging them further by braking for no other reason than to "teach them a lesson" could bring the rage over the critical level ...they can see that you just braked because of them.

corktina

peasant wrote: »

Pull in where it's safe to do so, let the idiot pass an then ...most imortantly ...keep well back and don't retaliate ...that's how you do it

absolutely correct....

ninty9er

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Doesn't matter how much of a pri(k someone is being, if theres room for you to pull in slightly, always pull in and let him by

+1

I do this and expect others to do it for me.

L1011

briankeating wrote: »

Braking at any time, even jamming on fully is not dangerous unless the car behind you is not keeping a safe distance.

Even if a vehicle is keeping a safe distance, you could be a contributory cause to an accident if you've been brake-testing due to the complacency to your brake lights that builds up.

Brake-testing *IS* dangerous and its an extremely bad driving practice. No two ways about it, no way to defend it. And if you're seen doing it by the GTC you'll have a nice date with the local district court judge.

cormac_byrne

When someone is traveling too close to you the only safe thing to do is to let them by as soon as possible.

If it's impossible to let them by, you should reduce speed gradually (without braking)

At a slower speed

1. they will do less damage if they hit you because you have to brake for an emergency

2. it will be easier for you to pull into a hard shoulder when one appears (even a short bumpy bit) and let them by. Be sure to indicate left before doing any braking as you pull in.

3. the slower you go the easier it will be for them to overtake

grenache

Calina wrote: »

Okay, I'm under somewhat less pressure now so will respond to this. It's on its way over to Motors as well but if the mods there have any strong feelings about it, they can bat it back and I'll close it on C&T.

OP, on occasion, I have to make the following declaration of interest: braking, however softly, was not a sensible thing to do. What would you have done if he had hit you? Getting rear-ended is nothing other than wholly inconvenient and not without risks. Braking was one of the worst things you could do. It's not a question of "perhaps" you were wrong. You were wrong on several grounds, the key one is that it poses a massive risk to yourself, much more than headlights in your rearview mirror. Did you really want to be rear-ended at that speed? You brake when you have to brake, and reasons do not include "teaching the driver behind you a lesson that they are too close".

With respect to the question of being a victim of road-rage, I'm sorry, I don't buy it. There are plenty of stupid drivers around. For the most part, road-rage is what happens when you respond to that stupidity with some aggression. From my point of view, by braking to try and alter another driver's behaviour, it was you who were doing the roadraging. Yes, the other driver should not have been driving up your rear end, but most of what you appear to be complaining about would never have happened if you hadn't braked. Yes, the guy was aggressive and nasty but frankly, I would not have behaved the way you did in the situation you were in.

I disagree with you that i was doing the road raging. He was the one tailgating me, and flashing his lights remember. Was i wrong to brake?, maybe, yes, but then again hindsight is a great thing.

grenache

peasant wrote: »

Wrong!
Also ...consider this ...if you brake hard to avoid running over a small animal and this causes the car behind you to crash into you ...it will be your fault.

Wrong! If you brake for a legitimate reason, then the person who hits you from behind is in the wrong. Why do you think they have ads on RTE every day telling people not to tailgate? Because it is an illegal driving practice. You keep a moderate distance between you and the car ahead of you, enough space to give yourself a chance to avoid them if they happen to come to a stop ahead of you.

wil

I find the tone of much of the replies to this thread almost condoning the aggressive driving behaviour of a tailgater and very quick to accuse the OP.

Tailgating is wrong, tailgating is dangerous.
Isnt it time it was considered as unacceptable as drink driving.

But no, it is such a regular occurence on our roads along with breaking red lights and happens so often they get ignored by the law and generally tolerated by the public.

So we only report a car breaking a red light if it actually hits us, the other 99 times it misses and we dont give it a second thought.

Am I the only one to think there is way too much tolerance of bad driving behaviour on our roads. You would never get away with a 10th of what I see here on UK roads. It is not only police watching, Joe Public plays an important part.

I absolutely disagree the statement that you cant control the behavior of other drivers.
I can and do almost every day, either by road positioning, indicators, speed, acceleration, lights, horn and courtesy. Subtle and gentle it may be but often it is the only way to survive with the plethora of aggresive, inexperienced, erratic, inattentive and ignorant drivers you meet on our roads.

We even come to accept it and condone it from the very people who are meant to prevent it.
Any garda who is aggressively tailgating for no good reason should be reported. It amounts to endangerment and can in no way be excused. Are our police above the law?

I am not suggesting, encouraging or condoning aggressive or dangerous reactions, but passive, condoning/accepting behaviour is equally wrong and encouraging the aggressor, because for them, well it works, and because, god forbid, you had to slow down for an emergency, and they hit you, well they can simply claim it was your fault and knowing this country, sue you and win.

It should be 2 points for every person they tailgated, with coroboration required from one other witness, then get them of the road.
And when they regain their licence, fit their car with a limiter set to 90kph.

woop

person behind you should be keeping at a safe braking distance

say if you did have to brake in an emergency.................theyd be in the wrong then

corktina

wil wrote: »

I absolutely disagree the statement that you cant control the behavior of other drivers.
I can and do almost every day, either by road positioning, indicators, speed, acceleration, lights, horn and courtesy. Subtle and gentle it may be but often it is the only way to survive with the plethora of aggresive, inexperienced, erratic, inattentive and ignorant drivers you meet on our roads. quote

i dont have a problem here and I dont have a need to control vehicles behind me.....your subtle control is the other mans deliberately getting in his way.... it could be your driving that is the problem here... just get out of other peoples way when you can...you are far safer with the idiots gone past you and (be philosophic...) there could be a speed trap ahead that is going to get him instead of you....

Brian?

peasant wrote: »

Wrong!

Braking when you have to is one thing ...needlessly braking (or just slowing down) because someone is hitching a lift on your tow bar quite another.

Also ...consider this ...if you brake hard to avoid running over a small animal and this causes the car behind you to crash into you ...it will be your fault. You should have just run over the bunny-wabbit and not endangered the people in the other car behind you.

And lastly ...the tailgaiter behind you is already raging ...enraging them further by braking for no other reason than to "teach them a lesson" could bring the rage over the critical level ...they can see that you just braked because of them.

No, I'm not wrong.

If I brake hard to avoid running over a child and get hit from behind is this my fault? No its not. It amounts to exactly the same thing, the person following should always allow enough room for the car in front to make an emergency stop.

I never said I agreed with braking to teach a tailgater a lesson. I'd never do it.

Brian?

MYOB wrote: »

Even if a vehicle is keeping a safe distance, you could be a contributory cause to an accident if you've been brake-testing due to the complacency to your brake lights that builds up.

Nonsense, if a car in front of me brakes a lot it is my responsibility to back off to safe distance. If the car behind me is tail gating me, its my responsibility to leave an even bigger gap to the car in front of me so I don't have to brake hard. Its called defensive driving.

If everyone drove like this no one would ever get rear ended.

[/QUOTE]Brake-testing *IS* dangerous and its an extremely bad driving practice. No two ways about it, no way to defend it. And if you're seen doing it by the GTC you'll have a nice date with the local district court judge.[/QUOTE]


I never said it wasn't bad driving. But it is not dangerous driving unless the person doing it is being tail gated.

What could you possibly be charged with that would make any sense in court? Being cautious?