Phoenix Park, Dublin. Any tips from cyclists?

mikemac

I’m not used to cycling in the Phoenix Park, my usual haunt is Dollymount, Sutton and Howth Hill.
And while you do have the usual pedestrians in the cycle lane and cyclists along the promenade, in general most people are predictable and don’t mess around…….most of the time.

I’ve started commuting to work over the last few weeks and am getting fitter at it. It’s not too dissimilar to commuting by moped and I even have random races with other cyclists now and again (I usually lose ). It’s not far, around 15km return.

Hope to go on a boards spin some day but not realy that fit. I spun out by the Phoenix Park yesterday to see if there was a big turnout. There was and the boards jerseys look well. Well done all!:)

What a disaster of a place. Within 500 metres of the gate I was lying on the ground with my knee cut open after a jogger lost in their own world with their ipod walked in front of me. I dodged them but lost control and went skidding along the ground. A shouting match ensued.
Maybe 1km up the cycle lane (Chesterfield Avenue?) I was shouted at for giving two walkers a fright as I overtook them from behind on the cycle lane. Well, I had to go on the grass to get past.

Saw you all by the Papel Cross and then spent the rest of my time dodging joggers on the green cycle lane. Europe largest urban park and people want to play chicken with each other?

I’m often the Phoenix Park but as a jogger and I can stick to the correct areas. I’ve never cycled in the park before and I’ll think I’ll stick to Sutton and Howth unless I learn something new.
Sorry for the rant, any tips from the regulars?

Gavin

Cycle on the road appears to be the way to do it.

toombah

I stay off the cycle paths (especially on Chesterfield av) and just use the road. The way I see it, those cycle paths are intended for children or people cycling at complete leisure. Usually crowded with walkers/joggers/roller-bladers.

Also, I find a better area of the park to use for training is by the magazine fort, furze loop for short interval work. For a longer cycle I'd avoid the park completely. Especially on a Tuesday evening - seems to get really busy around 7 o'clock.

Chips Lovell

Yep, cycle on the road. Those bike paths are lethal.

Morgan

It's a nice loop if you cycle around the perimeter of the park. I wouldn't bother with the cycle lanes unless you want to go slowly.

ROK ON

Hi. I commute thru the park almost every day. In the early morning the cycle paths are fine. However in the evening/weekend, I believe that it is safer to use the roads. Too many joggers, rollerbladers on the cycle path. Means that if you use them it is always stop start, so to speak. I find it infuriating that people walk/jog on them, but then I am easily annoyed.

I try to avoid them at all costs.

If you are coming from town, it is easier to head in the NCR entrance and follow the road up by the back of the zoo/Aras (ie adjacent to Blackhorse Ave.) Surface not great, but a wide raod so plenty of clearance by cars.

72hundred

Well one way of reminding those who shouldn't be there is to get one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Delta-Airzound-Bike-Horn/dp/B000ACAMJC

I think I'll be getting one myself soon for the craic!


72oo

blorg

Cycle on the road if you want to go at any speed. Myself and Harpz have had a few good sprints down the main one in the middle

The cycle paths are fine for leisure cycling if you are going to take it very slowly and be careful with the peds- e.g. day out with kids sort of thing. No use for a workout.

niceonetom

after many many shouting matches i stick to the roads almost exclusively now. this might be illegal due to out mandatory usage law re cycle-paths but i doubt it, given that the cycle-paths in the park have no proper signage and probably don't legally exist. by-laws with the park may override this though.

you think the lanes are dangerous now? just wait for winter when it's pitch dark at 5.30 and the joggers are all dressed as ninjas.

unionman

blorg wrote: »

Cycle on the road if you want to go at any speed. Myself and Harpz have had a few good sprints down the main one in the middle

Ye were fairly bombing it alright, very impressive:D

Yes OP, stick to the road, & everything everyone else said^. The aggro just isn't worth it. Plenty of threads on this site to illustrate that point. Sorry to hear about your injury, hope it heals quickly.

Only once have I had someone in a car lean out the window and tell me to use the cyclepath. He was the passenger, I couldn't help myself, broke my heart laughing at him. 'Twas a couple of years ago. I don't engage with road rage or hecklers any more if I can help it, it wrecks your head.

steve-o

The Castleknock end is usually ok, but from the middle towards town is completely unusable. Why do people walk with their backs to the oncoming cyclists? I've thought of writing to the OPW to make suggestions for improvement, but that would probably be a waste of time... considering that their last park use consultation was advertised in the national press, yet I didn't see a single sign in the park inviting submissions from actual park users, so I'm skeptical of the value of that exercise.

Chips Lovell

niceonetom wrote: »

after many many shouting matches i stick to the roads almost exclusively now. this might be illegal due to out mandatory usage law re cycle-paths but i doubt it, given that the cycle-paths in the park have no proper signage and probably don't legally exist. by-laws with the park may override this though.

I looked into this a while back and it's utterly confusing. The park's legal status is governed by the Phoenix Park Act of 1925, which puts the OPW in charge of it. They're allowed make by-laws. The only by-laws issued date from 1926. All they mention about cycling is:

(6) No vehicle other than a bicycle or tricycle shall be driven on or across the turf or grass in the Park except during such times and at such places as the Commissioners shall authorise and shall specify in notices exhibited at such places.


(7) No bicycle, tricycle, or other vehicle shall be ridden or driven at any time on or across any footpath in the Park.

However, they also say:

(3) Drivers of vehicles in the Park shall comply with the provisions of these bye-laws and shall conform to such orders for the regulation of traffic in the Park as may be given by any member of the Gárda Síochána or any park constable or contained in any notice by the Commissioners exhibited in the Park.

That could certainly be open to interpretation.

Oh, and maximum fine for breach of the by-laws is £5.

FrankGrimes

niceonetom wrote: »

this might be illegal due to out mandatory usage law re cycle-paths

Is this actually true that not using a cycle path is illegal? Do you know where can I get a definitive answer on it?

I'm just getting back into cycling for my commute (Crumlin - Sandyford) and I was noticing just how disgracefully laid out the majority of cycle paths are. The off-road cycle paths are particularly lethal and why the hell should a cyclist doing manual work have to slow to yield at every housing estate entrance or left turnoff and then get back up to speed instead of having the person in the car, who is having to yield anyway just do it?

I'm wondering if it's possible to take a legal challenge to both the state and suitability for purpose of certain cycle paths? For example, I'd say there's a pretty strong argument that making it illegal for a cyclist not to use the one in Templeogue village would be endangering the saftey of that cyclist.

MadHatter

unionman wrote: »

Only once have I had someone in a car lean out the window and tell me to use the cyclepath. He was the passenger, I couldn't help myself, broke my heart laughing at him. 'Twas a couple of years ago. I don't engage with road rage or hecklers any more if I can help it, it wrecks your head.

Earlier this week, I had the driver of a Spanish reg tour bus beep and gesticulate at me for not using the cycle lane! It was a left hand drive bus so he was sitting right beside as he did it. I just waved him away, no point in getting worked up. This was the section from parkgate street up to the roundabout near the zoo. I never use that cycle path as it's almost always full of peds and the exit point at the roundabout is extremely dangerous. Generally I use the cyclepaths elsewhere.

I've had a few words with peds on the cycle paths in the past as well but I rarely bother now (unless they've forced me to come to a stop) as it's a waste of breath. Went through a stage of bombing past the peds at close quarters in the hope they'd get the message - zipped through the middle of a couple of joggers one night and they nearly lost their lives - but I realized this is a) dangerous and b) anti-social so I've reigned myself in.

Generally, if commuting I use the cycle lanes and put up with the peds, out for a spin on the road bike I stick to the roads.

Chips Lovell

FrankGrimes wrote: »

Is this actually true that not using a cycle path is illegal? Do you know where can I get a definitive answer on it?

Yes, according to the Road Traffic Regulations, you have to cycle in one if it is provided.

14. (1) Where traffic sign numbers RUS 009 or RUS 009A and either RRM 022 or RRM 023 [cycle track] are provided, the part of road to which they relate shall be a cycle track.


(2) The periods of operation of a cycle track may be indicated on an information plate which may be provided in association with traffic sign number RUS 009 or RUS 009A.


(3) All pedal cycles must be driven on a cycle track where one is provided.

However, if the cycle track isn't properly marked, then technically it isn't a cycle lane.

Caroline_ie

el tonto wrote: »

However, if the cycle track isn't properly marked, then technically it isn't a cycle lane.

Reminds me of that american woman who shouted at me saying 'get off that's not a bike lane' ... this still tortures my mind *ArGh*.

I am in the park most evenings and I usually don't cycle much past on the main rd past the President's house. I also got scared a few times by drivers getting off their car without looking. I am not interrested in knowing what a car door can do to a sprinting cyclist.

niceonetom

el tonto wrote: »

However, if the cycle track isn't properly marked, then technically it isn't a cycle lane.

'properly marked' may be a more debatable term within the park given:

(3) Drivers of vehicles in the Park shall comply with the provisions of these bye-laws and shall conform to such orders for the regulation of traffic in the Park as may be given by any member of the Gárda Síochána or any park constable or contained in any notice by the Commissioners exhibited in the Park.

so that cycle-path may be legally extant without the signs stipulated in the RTR? £5 fines aside it could be relevant in decisions about culpability should one of these cyclist/ped incidents go to court. which one will, if it hasn't already.

this was the reason i persisted in using the lanes for as long as i did - i felt that it was unfair that i should be forced to use the road illegally to be safer, and that it bothered me that the provision of cycle facilities should prove to be nearly pointless because of these pedestrians.

omri

I remember one pedestrian telling me to slow down, when I was cycling in phoenix. He was using bicycle lane along with his family...very annoying

Chips Lovell

niceonetom wrote: »

'properly marked' may be a more debatable term within the park...so that cycle-path may be legally extant without the signs stipulated in the RTR?

Yes, that's the thing. Outside the park you know exactly where you stand.

However, while the cycle lanes are marked in the park in a different way, I can recall seeing no notice or sign from the OPW saying you must cycle in the cycle lane where one is provided.

The way I'd read the legislation is that I'm free to cycle on the road unless instructed not to by a Guard, Park Ranger, or sign from the OPW.

niceonetom

yes, that interpretation makes sense to me. it does mean that pedestrians are under no obligation to avoid the cycle-path though. sigh...

Chips Lovell

niceonetom wrote: »

yes, that interpretation makes sense to me. it does mean that pedestrians are under no obligation to avoid the cycle-path though. sigh...

Yep, you're probably right.

Caroline_ie

... is that how it feel to be misunderstood ... Let us cyclists be for god's sake!

blorg

Caroline_ie wrote: »

I am in the park most evenings and I usually don't cycle much past on the main rd past the President's house. I also got scared a few times by drivers getting off their car without looking. I am not interrested in knowing what a car door can do to a sprinting cyclist.

You just have to keep far out enough so you are nowhere near car doors if they are parked on the side of the road there. It's a park, I don't feel bad about it at all (I'll still move in if there is room and a queue behind me.)

Chips Lovell

blorg wrote: »

You just have to keep far out enough so you are nowhere near car doors if they are parked on the side of the road there. It's a park, I don't feel bad about it at all (I'll still move in if there is room and a queue behind me.)

Anyone know what the speed limit is in the park? I can't imagine its that high

MadHatter

50 km/h throughout the park afaik