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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,260 ✭✭✭✭Borderfox




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭baldbear




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,260 ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭convert


    This is exactly what the sport didn't need.

    I agree with your observation, fits; it is unusual that all 4 horses tested positive for the same substance. Even if you just take the number who've qualified for the final round, 4 is still a pretty high percentage.

    Radioheader: as zaraba has said, it's not as black and white as you make it.
    Regarding athletes knowing what's in every substance and not taking prohibited substances inadvertently: that's not so easy. As an athlete who can be tested at any time for the 2 (very different) sports in which I compete, it's exceptionally difficult to know what's in all the food I eat. When one reads the list of ingredients on food packaging, not every ingredient is listed accurately. It's actually much more stringent for animal feedstuffs; for example, on human food packaging it's sufficient to say that a food 'may contain traces of nuts', whereas on animal feed packaging, this is completely unacceptable. In order to try and avoid consuming prohibited substances inadvertently, I have to try and purchase fresh food and cook my own meals as I don't know what's in the pre-prepared food.

    The same can be said for medication. Even herbal remedies which are meant to be fee from prohibited substances can contain ingredients which, if consumed, will cause the athlete (human or animal) to fail a dope test. Poppy seeds is a really good example. Moreover, I've often used deep heat for muscle aches, which I'm pretty sure may have contained substances which, although prohibited, may not have actually been performance enhancing.

    Finally, even if an athlete is suspected of taking performance enhancing substances which are prohibited, but if it hasn't or can't been proven, then that athlete is innocent, regardless of people's opinions or beliefs. Innocent until proven guilty: please bear that in mind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 603 ✭✭✭Poncherello


    Poppy Seeds, nuts and deep heat will ya get off the stage !

    next thing we will be told the horse had asthma


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Not again :(

    Exactly what I thought. So disappointing, and he had a great chance of being in the medals.
    Also find it strange that 4 horses from different countries tested positive for the same substance at the same time... :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Poppy Seeds, nuts and deep heat will ya get off the stage !

    next thing we will be told the horse had asthma

    Asthma/Respiratory problems are common enough in horses...


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭convert


    Poppy Seeds, nuts and deep heat will ya get off the stage !

    next thing we will be told the horse had asthma

    yep, poppy seeds, if consumed in sufficient quantities, will cause an athlete to fail a dope test. I'm pretty sure deep heat may do the same. Check the ingredients off the banned substances list.

    Horses can have asthma too - that's why a large number of horses can't be bedded on straw and their hay has to be soaked, or an alternative fed instead. These horses need to be kept in as close to a dust free environment as possible.


    (Mods: sorry... i'm pretty sure this falls into the 'off topic' zone, so feel free to move/delete if you feel the need)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,522 ✭✭✭✭fits


    yup enough about asthma tbh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭MDFM


    Does anyone know how long it has being since Latinus last competed? ie before he went to the games? Would he have being tested at his last show before heading to HK? And if so, he must have being clear? So, between then and now, the horse has being given a banned substance? I'm saying innocent until proven guilty, but, in hindsight of the games and during quarantine/transport, surely they would have or should have taken extreme care in whatever medication was to be given to the horse? Seems not:(


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  • Posts: 5,589 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think that all horses were tested and were clean before they travelled.

    Give me a while to find that source though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭MDFM


    I think that all horses were tested and were clean before they travelled.

    Give me a while to find that source though.

    I thought the same. Surely they have to pass some sort of test before travelling? Ah well:mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,522 ✭✭✭✭fits


    All horses must have ended up positive from the same source, or a sample must have been contaminated, so I dont think results pre-travel would be all that relevant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭MDFM


    fits wrote: »
    All horses must have ended up positive from the same source, or a sample must have been contaminated, so I dont think results pre-travel would be all that relevant.

    i was just thinking that if they got the all clear heading out there, now they're tested positive, then what has gone on in the meantime? Or, are all test standard at every event? Sample could well be contaminated though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    I've heard of this before. It's rubbed onto the horses legs to make them lift them higher. I've actually seen people apply it.

    If he is found guilty he should be banned from competing for ireland ever again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,522 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I've heard of such a substance used with chains around the coronet for Tennessee walking horses (disgusting scene), but not in showjumping. How would it make them lift their legs higher?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,329 ✭✭✭jasonb


    I'm guessing the B Sample won't be tested before the final, so what happens if the Final goes ahead, and then the B Samples are tested and found to be negative. Do the four riders / horses just have to curse their bad luck, and they've now missed out on a chance of a medal?

    J.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    Well i don't know how it works biologically tbh. If it's the stuff i'm thinking of it causes the area to which it's applied to become more sensitive. Followed by a well timed "miss" at a practice jump, and the horse hitting a pole, the legs feel more than they would had they endured striking a pole without this application. Next time around the horse will jump higher.

    Seems strange that they would risk it.

    Saying that, it would not seem like a coincidence to me that 4 riders got caught. It would actually reinforce my suspicion that it is used for the purposes outlined above.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭MDFM


    togster wrote: »
    I've heard of this before. It's rubbed onto the horses legs to make them lift them higher. I've actually seen people apply it.

    If he is found guilty he should be banned from competing for ireland ever again.

    This will depend on what he is found guilty of - yea he should be banned if he's found guilty of Deliberately doping the horse, knowingly using a banned substance to enhance the animal's performance.
    However, if he's found guilty but without knowingly and deliberately doping the animal, then all he'll have to do is serve a few months ban like JK and COC did. At the moment, all he's being accused of his having his horse tested positive for banned substances.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,288 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    jasonb wrote: »
    I'm guessing the B Sample won't be tested before the final, so what happens if the Final goes ahead, and then the B Samples are tested and found to be negative. Do the four riders / horses just have to curse their bad luck, and they've now missed out on a chance of a medal?

    J.

    yes. The final is well underway


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,329 ✭✭✭jasonb


    Well, that's pretty poor! I know it's a big IF, but if the B Samples are ok, what recourse do they have? 'We made a mistake, sorry you've wasted the last few years preparing for the Olympics?'

    J.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    Well, that's just the system they have in place. Otherwise people would leave doping there horses to the last second.

    Most of these riders compete professionally. The olympics is another big (albeit biggest) show of the year.

    I have no issue with the procedure tbh


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,329 ✭✭✭jasonb


    I completely understand the need for testing up to the final.

    However, the system they have in place basically says 'we'll test you, and if you fail the test we'll assume you're innocent and then test you again'. That is a good system. But, because it takes so long to do the second test, the person who's assumed innocent is still punished, by missing the final.

    Ignoring this particular case, in general would it make more sense to not stop an athlete from competing until after the B Test?

    J.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,329 ✭✭✭jasonb


    P.S. I'm well aware that this is off topic, I'll shut up about it now! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭John The Bad


    Here we go again. This is why I am BORED by the Olympics (says the guy who bursted himself to come onto an equestrian board for the first time ever).

    When will the B sample result come in?

    Is this Athens 2002 all over again? Such cr*p. It'll be one of the boxers next.

    --

    Someone on Radio 1 is claiming that this is an inadvertent use of something like a cream under the saddle. I would feel very sorry for all disqualified riders failing on an inadvertent use of some pain killer but man, they should've known better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭Seifer


    It'll be one of the boxers next.
    Leave the boxers out of it. They're actually super-fit athletes doing the country proud.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    Exactly how hard is it to check all the ingredients in something and then cross check it against pro-hibited substances.

    We have to do it at work for use of chemicals. It's the fcukin olympics for christ sake.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    Seifer wrote: »
    Leave the boxers out of it. They're actually super-fit athletes doing the country proud.

    So are the horses and riders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,265 ✭✭✭Seifer


    togster wrote:
    So are the horses and riders.
    Yeah the nation is swelling with pride as another jockey brings shame onto the country by cheating.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    allegedly cheating


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