Abortion

eveie

thaedyal your insinuating that i suggested that you've something to hide, i said that it didnt matter what you worked at, i was merely stating a point.....why should it matter what i work at? its because some people do not like my opinions that ask this.
however i will state that i do not work for plc

Nevyn

You may call it that but women in their droves still choose it and we make it even harder on them with the current system of forcing them to travel causing more stress which makes thier situation worse.

eveie

to be honest thaedyal i dont see any logic in making something legal just because it causes these women stress, how come everything is about the women, pro-choice/pro-abortion people do not even consider the child, they act as if it doesnt exist, what about the stress that child faces while it is being pulled apart?
i dont know if youve seen it and the name has escaped my mind, but there a famous picture of a 22 or 24 week old (after conception) baby who has spina bifida and a surgeon is preforming surgory on the child to try and correct its spine, the child raises her hand and grasps the surgeons finger. how can any person with any type of human intelligence tell me or anyone else of that matter that that is not a human being????

eveie

also just because thousands of women opt for abortion does not make it right, with that kind of logic you could argue that because thousands of rapes occur every yr we should legalise it, x amount of murders were committed.....lets solve the problem and legalise it

Nevyn

eveie wrote: »

i dont know if youve seen it and the name has escaped my mind, but there a famous picture of a 22 or 24 week old (after conception) baby who has spina bifida and a surgeon is preforming surgory on the child to try and correct its spine, the child raises her hand and grasps the surgeons finger. how can any person with any type of human intelligence tell me or anyone else of that matter that that is not a human being????

Yes I have seen it.

This thread was started as a sharing discussion, a non argumentative, non judgmental, non cont frontal space for people to share.

The type of hyperbole which have taken over the last few pages are what stops women ( and men ) from talking, sharing and understanding each other across the divide this issue creates.

Dragan

eveie wrote: »

yes dragan but another person of mature age would deny it was a human where it is obvious that it is.
any bona-fide campaign will not use photoshoped picyures although i do know they excist.
again this is where people are denying that the picture they are seeing is a baby a child, injected with salt solution ir suc into several pieces.
i dont think its societal guilt i think we feel guilt if we know we've done something worng. i know a few women who have had abortions and not one of them is 100% happy with their decision.
yes i suppose i do believe that all human life is sacred.
what annoys me is that abortion for instance in england was brought in solely for cases where the child would be suffering from a disability (i do not agree with this either) and they are thousands of perfectly formed children being aborted every yr. i have a cousin for instance who has many disibilities, some people who agrue that she has no quality of life, she is loved and cared for, she does not have a long life expectancy, and although her condition is very difficult on her family they love and accept her regardless, who has the roigh to say that she doesnt have the right to life. abortion is being abused everyday, it is being commercialised and anyone can avail of it, which is wrong, abortion is not a right, whereas every human has the right to life.

We will never see eye to eye as we will simply never agree on what is a human life. For me, an foetus in womb in the early stages of development is simply not a human.

I will leave you to your arguments and step away from this one.

Nevyn

eveie wrote: »

also just because thousands of women opt for abortion does not make it right, with that kind of logic you could argue that because thousands of rapes occur every yr we should legalise it, x amount of murders were committed.....lets solve the problem and legalise it

Charming, post reported.

eveie

i was going to say the same myself
i just want it to be made clear that i am not representing any organisation and i would like an apology from the moderator who suggested that i was.
any chance of a poll on this by any chance, although this thread is mostly pro-choice it would be interesting to see a precentage

eveie

i have absolutly no idea why my post was reported tell me how or what was wrong with it?????
i was again merely stating apoint a very valid point, wehn i said murders i meant murders as in murders committed by born people to born people. amazing how pople will jump to conclusions. i have not once referred to abortion as murder

Nevyn

Dragan wrote: »

We will never see eye to eye as we will simply never agree on what is a human life. For me, an foetus in womb in the early stages of development is simply not a human.

I will leave you to your arguments and step away from this one.

Point encase, well done evie on polarising this thread and driving people away from it.

eveie

how have a polarised it? i have stated my opinions as have you, how come its me thats polarised it? the pro-choice people were happy to argue their point with me, but yet again it is the pro-life who gets shut down

Nevyn

It is the type of rethoric you have used.
Its not what you say it's the way that you say it.

Which is unfortunate and means that the many solutions like better sex education, access to contraception,
better suport for those who wish to keep the child or give it up for adoption, which more people agree on then disagree on get lost as some people start condemning and others tune out.

eveie

i really cannot see who thats true, some of the thing you've said i found rethpric but so what il get over it, your entitled to voice your opinion in anyway you feel.
anyway im stopping this now as ive had enough of this crap for one day
can i ask who is the mod for the ladys lounge?

Nevyn

Go to the index of threads for this forum and you will see thier names listed at the bottom you can also use the report post function to flag posts for them.

eveie

thank you

Nevyn

You are welcome, also the wiki for the site explains how the mod hierarchy works,
http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Mods.

Rosita

Thaedydal wrote: »

Charming, post reported.

What an utterly over the top reaction to a post which simply followed the logic of your sure-they're-doing-it-anyway-let's-make-it-handier-for-them view.

This is simply an attempt to bully someone with an opposing opinion.

Nevyn

If you have an issue with any post report it.

minidazzler

Thaedydal wrote: »

You assume wrongly.

Crisis Pregnancy is when a woman on finding out she is pregnant is upset, unhappy and in a quandry as to what do next. What choices she will make will depend on many differing circumstances. Ideally it would be great if we did have the support systems in place so that she could consider continuing the pregnancy and give the child up for adoption if she didn't want to keep it, unfortunately that is currently not an option for a lot of women due to the slut shaming that goes on.

I kind of see where you are coming from here, but, I still would not consider an unplanned or accidental pregnancy to be a "Crisis Pregnancy". Alot of women are unsure of "what to do next" when they get pregnant. Some are unhappy and upset but that does not make it a crisis.

Personnally, and I am sorry if this is offensive it not meant that way but will sound like it, I don't care about the woman when it comes to a pregnancy where the collection of cells has actually turned into a shape resembling a real baby. At that stage I am all about the baby. It should be given a chance.

Most women these days in Ireland have had some sort of Sex Ed. While I know that it is highly inadequet(sp?), It is enough to say, "Penis + Vagina = possibliity of Pregnancy". Most women know the possible outcomes of unprotected and even protected sex.

If they literally could not handle the responsibility of getting pregnant then IMO they should not have sex.

I am not a prude and I am not even against the use of the MAP, however, I believe that abortion is murder and should be reserved specifically for saving the life of a woman with complications that may kill her. And I am not talking about suicidal women though because that would again be their choice.

Being Pregnant is not a tenent agreement, people cannot just kick out the occupents when they want. I am not even Pro-life, I am Anti-Abortion. They should at least be given a chance.

The way I see it, the Foster care system in Ireland is very good. (I have personal experience with foster familys, although not fostered myself.), The Adoption system while lacking in alot of parents to take children in works well. (Although with people travelling now to adopt I see major problems.)

Final thoughts: Abortion should never be a womans choice, or anyones choice.

Rosita

Thaedydal wrote: »

If you have an issue with any post report it.

I prefer to rely on my own intellectual steam in these situations actually.

Malari

minidazzler wrote: »

I kind of see where you are coming from here, but, I still would not consider an unplanned or accidental pregnancy to be a "Crisis Pregnancy". Alot of women are unsure of "what to do next" when they get pregnant. Some are unhappy and upset but that does not make it a crisis.

But some are more than just unhappy and upset. Soeme have actually thought about it before they ever became pregnant and have made educated decisions.

minidazzler wrote: »

Personnally, and I am sorry if this is offensive it not meant that way but will sound like it, I don't care about the woman when it comes to a pregnancy where the collection of cells has actually turned into a shape resembling a real baby. At that stage I am all about the baby. It should be given a chance.

I disagree with this. I don't think once a woman becomes pregnant that she is viewed as nothing more than an incubator.

minidazzler wrote: »

Most women these days in Ireland have had some sort of Sex Ed. While I know that it is highly inadequet(sp?), It is enough to say, "Penis + Vagina = possibliity of Pregnancy". Most women know the possible outcomes of unprotected and even protected sex.

If they literally could not handle the responsibility of getting pregnant then IMO they should not have sex.

The problem is that your view is presumably that "handling the reponsibility of getting pregnant" does not include abortion, and in many people's views it does.

minidazzler wrote: »

I am not a prude and I am not even against the use of the MAP, however, I believe that abortion is murder and should be reserved specifically for saving the life of a woman with complications that may kill her. And I am not talking about suicidal women though because that would again be their choice.

Again, many people will not separate the idea of terminating a zygote with the MAP and with abortion within the first few weeks.

minidazzler wrote: »

Being Pregnant is not a tenent agreement, people cannot just kick out the occupents when they want. I am not even Pro-life, I am Anti-Abortion. They should at least be given a chance.

The way I see it, the Foster care system in Ireland is very good. (I have personal experience with foster familys, although not fostered myself.), The Adoption system while lacking in alot of parents to take children in works well. (Although with people travelling now to adopt I see major problems.)

There is a massive step between finding out you are a few weeks pregnant and adoption or fostering, or whatever. It's not always about not wanting to have a baby, it can be about not wanting to be pregnant at all. I fully agree with presenting ALL the choices and options to women who are pregnant - and women who aren't! - including abortion (hence pro-choice) but once an educated choice is made, the choice to not continue the pregnancy should be respected because it is not illegal.

eveie

"the choice to not continue the pregnancy should be respected because it is not illegal." quote malari

em its illegal in ireland donno why you said its not illegal
Today 15:58

Malari

It's not illegal in the UK and many other countries in the EU. Services readily available to Irish women.

eveie

yes Ireland is the only european country that has not legalised abortion

WindSock

Neither have Poland or Malta.

tatt chic

I'm new, so hi everone.

i'd jsut like to say that last year i found out i was pregnant, it was unwanted, i was planning an abortion, but had a miscarriage and had to have a d&c in the hospital.

i am very pro choice, but couldn't help but feel guilty, like it was payback or something, which is ridiculous. there's not enough councelling available to people or its not widely talked about so its kept hush hush.

i couldn't have given that baby a good life, so for me it was the right decision.

Dragan

Rosita wrote: »

I prefer to rely on my own intellectual steam in these situations actually.

Hey Rosita,

it is normally best to report posts like this that you may have an objection to. This way they are brought to the attention of the Forum Moderators, threads are more likely to remain civil and stay open for longer debate.

You can always make a post an offer your advice as well, but if you see something you consider to be truly objectionable in a post then site wide Mods would appreciate users reporting them.:)

rainbow kirby

Malari wrote: »

It's not illegal in the UK and many other countries in the EU. Services readily available to Irish women.

I wouldn't call having to go abroad "readily available".

LolaLuv

tatt chic wrote: »

I'm new, so hi everone.

i'd jsut like to say that last year i found out i was pregnant, it was unwanted, i was planning an abortion, but had a miscarriage and had to have a d&c in the hospital.

i am very pro choice, but couldn't help but feel guilty, like it was payback or something, which is ridiculous. there's not enough councelling available to people or its not widely talked about so its kept hush hush.

i couldn't have given that baby a good life, so for me it was the right decision.

Sorry to hear about that. I think the biggest problem with pro-lifers is that they generally ignore the emotional aspect of abortion. Many of them think women run around using abortion of birth control. While that may be true in a minority of cases, most women I know who've had them have had to deal with emotional upheaval that lasted years. It's not a decision any woman takes lightly, imo.

Malari

PillyPen wrote: »

Sorry to hear about that. I think the biggest problem with pro-lifers is that they generally ignore the emotional aspect of abortion. Many of them think women run around using abortion of birth control. While that may be true in a minority of cases, most women I know who've had them have had to deal with emotional upheaval that lasted years. It's not a decision any woman takes lightly, imo.

Agreed, or at least the women who are debating it here are not taking anything lightly. It irks me when pro-lifers say that if you had all the options, or if you were educated you would change your mind.

rainbow kirby wrote: »

I wouldn't call having to go abroad "readily available".

Point taken, I just mean that it is available and there are no real restrictions, other than travel.