Used car: What consumer rights have been breached here?

Hitman Actual

I've just bought a used car a few weeks ago from a dealer (non-simi, I also just found out), and have since discovered the following issues:

1. Engine warning light disabled.
2. Gear box warning light disabled.
3. Diagnostics check revealed gearbox actuator error, and a couple of more minor errors (the actuator problem could be quite expensive, maybe €1500+).

The car is still under warranty, but my question is what consumer rights have been breached?

hellboy99

None really, car is sold as seen. Did you sign anything when you purchased the car, did you get a receipt stating a warranty ? if so that may just be for certain parts.

Did it come with NCT, if so how much is left on it or was it NCT'd by the dealer ?

msg11

May-be an issue with selling a car in a non roadworthy condition. Take it the car has no NCT then?

But as said, you were happy with what you seen and made an agreement.

I think the warranty only covers mechanical parts, not electrics.

Hitman Actual

Some clarifications: The NCT was just up on the car when I bought it, but it was guaranteed for NCT by the dealer (they would sort out any problems if it did not pass). I accepted this.

The warranty covers parts and labor.

Also, in point 3 above in the OP, when I'm talking about a 'diagnostic' test, I mean I brought the car to an official dealer and they ran the diagnostic test. In their opinion, the main fault (gear actuator) is a serious and potentially costly one. So from a consumer standpoint, is the car of 'merchantable' quality?

Finally, if the engine/gear box warning lights have been disabled, is this not viewed as a clear attempt to hide underlying problems with the car?

jor el

Doesn't matter what the warranty says, if the dealer sold you a broken car, he's liable for it.
http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Learning_Zone/Guides_To_Consumer_Law/Buying_a_Car/

In general, if you are buying from a dealer, you are fully protected by consumer laws, which also give you the right to take legal action if your rights are not upheld.

Go back to the garage, tell them to fix the problems or you'll see them in court.

hellboy99

lenny_leonard wrote: »

Some clarifications: The NCT was just up on the car when I bought it, but it was guaranteed for NCT by the dealer (they would sort out any problems if it did not pass). I accepted this.

The warranty covers parts and labor.

Also, in point 3 above in the OP, when I'm talking about a 'diagnostic' test, I mean I brought the car to an official dealer and they ran the diagnostic test. In their opinion, the main fault (gear actuator) is a serious and potentially costly one. So from a consumer standpoint, is the car of 'merchantable' quality?

Finally, if the engine/gear box warning lights have been disabled, is this not viewed as a clear attempt to hide underlying problems with the car?

You knownly bought the car without an NCT, if the dealer said it would pass no problem then you should of asked them to put it through the test before you bought it. If you are going to buy a car without an NCT more than likely there are going to be issues with it.

As for the warning lights disable you can neither prove or disprove they disabled them.

If you have the above mentioned, "warranty covers parts and labor" on paper/receipt from them then take it back to them, be warned though as they may only cover certain parts & work in their mentioned warranty. Also if you do have a receipt does it have "sold as seen" wrote on it ?
If you don't have this in writing then to be honest I can't see you getting anywhere, at the end of the day you bought a car without an NCT.

Hitman Actual

hellboy99 wrote: »

As for the warning lights disable you can neither prove or disprove they disabled them.

Apart from the fact that they've since told me that they disabled the warning lights, giving the reason that the the warning sensors/indicators interfere with the running of the car. I would have thought that what's causing the sensors to trigger interferes with the running of the car, no?

I also think you're getting too caught up in the NCT issue. I posted on this forum because I want to understand how one would approach this from a consumers rights issue. Your logic seems to be that once a car has no NCT, your consumer rights go out the window. That's surely not the case, is it?

jimmycrackcorm

You are within your rights to seek redress for the problems. the Dealer is a business and has hidden the problems by disabling the lights.

See: http://www.consumerassociation.ie/faq.html#AutoAdvert (specific to a similar situation regarding a private sale but the opposite holds true for a dealer)

hellboy99

lenny_leonard wrote: »

Apart from the fact that they've since told me that they disabled the warning lights, giving the reason that the the warning sensors/indicators interfere with the running of the car. I would have thought that what's causing the sensors to trigger interferes with the running of the car, no?

I also think you're getting too caught up in the NCT issue. I posted on this forum because I want to understand how one would approach this from a consumers rights issue. Your logic seems to be that once a car has no NCT, your consumer rights go out the window. That's surely not the case, is it?

So they have told you they disabled them, obvious they knew there was a problem with the car so why not fix it and nct it before selling it, sounds like they couldn't of been bothered or didn't want to spend the money to fix it. Quick sale and hope they don't see it again.

As for your point made to me about the nct, thats not my thinking. Personally I would not buy a car without an nct, especially from a dealer.

You still haven't answered my question, do you have a written receipt from the dealer, does it state the car comes with a warranty and has it got "sold as seen" on it ?

Hitman Actual

hellboy99 wrote: »

So they have told you they disabled them, obvious they knew there was a problem with the car so why not fix it and nct it before selling it, sounds like they couldn't of been bothered or didn't want to spend the money to fix it. Quick sale and hope they don't see it again.

As for your point made to me about the nct, thats not my thinking. Personally I would not buy a car without an nct, especially from a dealer.

Apologies if I came across a bit 'blunt', I'm just annoyed over the situation I find myself in.

According to the official mechanic who ran the diagnostic test for me, the gearbox actuator fault is costly, €1500+. So maybe that was a reason for trying to get it out the door as quickly as possible and hope the problem wasn't noticed.

hellboy99 wrote: »

You still haven't answered my question, do you have a written receipt from the dealer, does it state the car comes with a warranty and has it got "sold as seen" on it ?

The warranty says it covers parts and labor. I think the 'as seen' issue you talk about is covered under this line:

wrote:

I understand that it is a term of contract that I should examine the vehicle before signing this order form to satisfy myself as to its quality. I have carried out such an examination, and in particular my attention has been drawn to the following items: (1) Tyres, (2) Bodywork and paintwork, (3) Glass, (4) Trim and upholstery (5) The general condition of the vehicle in relation to its age.

However, there is also a declaration in the warranty that [paraphrasing] "Nothing in the warranty shall affect or prejudice a purchasers statutory rights under section 12, 13, 14 and 15 of the Sale of Goods Act 1893 and 1980".

In particular, I think section 14(2) is important:

(2) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business there is an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are of merchantable quality, except that there is no such condition—

( a ) as regards defects specifically drawn to the buyer's attention before the contract is made, or

( b ) if the buyer examines the goods before the contract is made, as regards defects which that examination ought to have revealed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I take this to mean that (point a) I have no comeback on any defects I'm told about, and (point b) I have no comeback on any defects which my examination should have revealed.

So surely I'm covered? On point (a), I wasn't told of any defects, and on point (b), my examination couldn't have uncovered the fault I've since had diagnosed.

Hitman Actual

@jor el and jimmycrackcorm, thanks for those links, I found a lot of useful info there.

hellboy99

I can imagine that you are rightly annoyed and don't blame you, take it back to the dealer and see what they say to you when you ask them to fix, hopefully they will fix it.

Keep us posted on how you get on, best of luck