Prison Officer

cordub

Where do all the NEW PRISON OFFICERS actually get their information from , are they fed this load of rubbish in training on purpose to cause division before the new lads are actually sent to work in the prisons???? All you new PO please check out what your told not all is TRUE or is what you are led to believe is TRUE FACTS !!!!!!!!!

Shield

I'm inclined to agree with cordub and number guy, you don't know the circumstances surrounding the introduction of this, so it would probably be better for everyone if you put a bit more thought into the wording your posts. That's just an observation and not a moderator instruction.

Yourwellcum wrote: »

I think its a little bit hypocritical of older officers complaining out recruits wages when it was the deal they did and got a nice little touch for which resulted in the creation of the RPO position and the reduced salary.

Just something to think about

Yourwellcum

480905 wrote: »

Now horse, if you weren't around for that period I wouldn't be too quick to comment on it. I still have to find one officer who voted FOR that deal. Why on gods green earth would anyone vote to worsen conditions for fellow members??? Yet the deal got passed. It was rejected the first time OUT OF HAND. And then there was a re-ballot, Why would the vote change the second time?? In who's interest was it for that vote to be passed? I'll leave you to ponder.

Did serving officers at the time get a pay out to accept the deal, Yes or No

If they didnt I apologise and retract my previous statement

Yourwellcum

cordub wrote: »

Yourwellcum yet again mis information us older P.O never ever looked for the creation of RPO in actual fact the POA fought againist it for years and years. Union members would never LOOK for anyone working with them to be paid a reduced wage as that in itself causes relationship problems between staff who have to do the same job!!

I never said you older POs looked for it. I said the deal that was done allowed the position to be created.

Yourwellcum

psni wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with cordub and number guy, you don't know the circumstances surrounding the introduction of this, so it would probably be better for everyone if you put a bit more thought into the wording your posts. That's just an observation and not a moderator instruction.

With all due respect, to say I dont know simply because I wasnt in the service at the time is a bit presumptious.

Shield

I said you didn't know the circumstances. There's a big difference. Unless you're on the inside, and you're in those shoes, I would suggest that it's presumptious to comment on matters where you don't have all the facts that were pertinent at the time.

These are just general observations and it's nothing personal, and no offence intended in any way.

Yourwellcum wrote: »

With all due respect, to say I dont know simply because I wasnt in the service at the time is a bit presumptious.

cordub

Yourwellcum wrote: »

Did serving officers at the time get a pay out to accept the deal, Yes or No

If they didnt I apologise and retract my previous statement

I was around for the PAYout as you call it. It was not a PAYout based on shafting new officers that were coming into the job by the way it was to compesated for new working practices ie the AH system ( that replaces overtime) that we are working now , the system that means that you must try and work out 16 weeks in advance what days you have to work extra, The compensation was fully TAXED which in my opinion and everyone elses opinions should never have happened as COMPENSATION when given in every other job is normally TAXFREE but once again being a public servant means the rules change!! If the deal wasnt accepted that time it was being brought in anyway so you tell me would you have said no to COMPENSATION. :eek:

bitter_lemon

cordub wrote: »

Where do all the NEW PRISON OFFICERS actually get their information from , are they fed this load of rubbish in training on purpose to cause division before the new lads are actually sent to work in the prisons???? All you new PO please check out what your told not all is TRUE or is what you are led to believe is TRUE FACTS !!!!!!!!!

of course they do. its all about politics. i have a huge problem with how the bull**** is spewed out to new recruits. i think its very unfair and biased and does not give a true and accurate version of events. its little more than propaganda. i understand why they do it. it keeps them in a cushy job.

*Newsflash*
i am not in the service that long. i never said i was. certainly not as long as your good self cordub but i agree with everything you say.
i was promised everything. i got my mortgage a good few years ago based on my earnings. they were giving them out like smarties then as they were looking at potential earnings at the time. now i can't afford it. if i had known how the deck would fall i would never have bought into this. i have a stone around my neck now :mad:

i am caught between a rock and a hard place.
i feel so hard done by that i had not the opportunity to reap the benefits that i signed up for.

morale is very low. no serving officer accepted the pay deal. but magically it was passed!

mod if you see fit you can delete this part of my post - if i get another passive agressive pm from some stook in beladd who thinks they know who i am and am trying to silence me - forget about it :cool:


these issues are important. its about time they were aired.

cordub

bitter_lemon wrote: »

of course they do. its all about politics. i have a huge problem with how the bull**** is spewed out to new recruits. i think its very unfair and biased and does not give a true and accurate version of events. its little more than propaganda. i understand why they do it. it keeps them in a cushy job.

*Newsflash*
i am not in the service that long. i never said i was. certainly not as long as your good self cordub but i agree with everything you say.
i was promised everything. i got my mortgage a good few years ago based on my earnings. they were giving them out like smarties then as they were looking at potential earnings at the time. now i can't afford it. if i had known how the deck would fall i would never have bought into this. i have a stone around my neck now :mad:

i am caught between a rock and a hard place.
i feel so hard done by that i had not the opportunity to reap the benefits that i signed up for.

morale is very low. no serving officer accepted the pay deal. but magically it was passed!

mod if you see fit you can delete this part of my post - if i get another passive agressive pm from some stook in beladd who thinks they know who i am and am trying to silence me - forget about it :cool:



to right bitter lemon I feel so sorry for you YOUNGISH fellas in the job what a nightmare it must be for you , what people on the ground fail to realise too is that working where we do forces us to live in so called nicer areas purely for our own and our families safety which in boom time pushed the prices in these areas to hugely inflated prices , so what happens now I wonder , you put up with abuse , threats living in fear of your life in some cases and on top of it all due to huge reductions in pay unable to pay your mortgage , a nightmare!!

Shield

bitter_lemon wrote: »

if i get another passive agressive pm from some stook in beladd who thinks they know who i am and am trying to silence me - forget about it :cool:

If you're getting PMs that you feel are menacing in nature, you can always hit the "Report Private Message" icon which can be found in the top right corner of the PM, and a copy of it will go straight to the site administrators for review. PMs are outside of moderator remit I'm afraid.

bitter_lemon

cordub wrote: »

to right bitter lemon I feel so sorry for you YOUNGISH fellas in the job what a nightmare it must be for you , what people on the ground fail to realise too is that working where we do forces us to live in so called nicer areas purely for our own and our families safety which in boom time pushed the prices in these areas to hugely inflated prices , so what happens now I wonder , you put up with abuse , threats living in fear of your life in some cases and on top of it all due to huge reductions in pay unable to pay your mortgage , a nightmare!!

another great point you bring up! i do like you

bitter_lemon

psni wrote: »

If you're getting PMs that you feel are menacing in nature, you can always hit the "Report Private Message" icon which can be found in the top right corner of the PM, and a copy of it will go straight to the site administrators for review. PMs are outside of moderator remit I'm afraid.

ok thanks for that. i'm sure he'll read this at some stage and think twice. i'm not going to be intimidated. i am all for giving people a second chance to reassess their behaviour.
hes dealing with the wrong kiddo
after all he has more to lose than me on being on a public forum. he has a lot to say here.

salut

cordub wrote: »

Where do all the NEW PRISON OFFICERS actually get their information from , are they fed this load of rubbish in training on purpose to cause division before the new lads are actually sent to work in the prisons???? All you new PO please check out what your told not all is TRUE or is what you are led to believe is TRUE FACTS !!!!!!!!!

I am only new to this, but by god I feel the cold chill in the jail. Beladd seems so out of touch with real life. All them peacocks with stripes and bars, lording it.

cordub

salut wrote: »

I am only new to this, but by god I feel the cold chill in the jail. Beladd seems so out of touch with real life. All them peacocks with stripes and bars, lording it.

Totally agree with you Salut on that one. I think they do need to get back on the floor for a few months and actually talk to staff that are dealing with the new problems involving staff, seeing how fed up and disillusioned we are working with bosses who continually see only 1 side of a story . They are def promoting the RIGHT type of people , at least a few years back you were guaranteed the back up of your Chief now seems to be the opposite .I suppose its the new way of not rocking the prisoners boat!! SKY TV and FREE PHONE calls whats next one wonders!!!!:mad::mad: 1 million a year at least spent on free calls for prisoners wheres the recession there ???

bitter_lemon

when i first started management were 99% on your side. now they are 99% in favor of prisoners. its political correctness gone mad.

look at this! look how much money was spent on footballs last year. lol its not for recreational purposes. its for kicking the drugs off the net. ah sure give them another football. keep them happy :rolleyes:

€56,000 was spent on recreational balls for prisoners this year according to information released to Fine Gael.

Fine Gael Front Bench Spokesman, Denis Naughten said expenditure required an “urgent review” following the figures' release.

This showed an increase of €17,000 on last year’s expenditure. Combined, this is almost €100,000 in two years spent on prison footballs.

Dublin prisons' expenditure on balls rose from €18,878 in 2008 to €31,271 last year.

The total spent on sports, gym and recreation equipment was €218,044.

Naughten complained: “Why on earth is Fianna Fáil prioritising prisoners’ balls over blind pensioners, carers and unemployed people?

“It would seem impossible for Minister Dermot Ahern to justify such an increase in spending when sports organisations are left without funding for community sports and recreational facilities with the mothballing of the sports capital grant,” he continued.

“Surely it makes more sense to invest money in providing facilities that keeps people out of prison in the first place,” he concluded.

Minister Ahern hit back however saying: “In the prison setting, physical education affords prisoners the opportunity to take control of one aspect of their daily life, namely their physical well-being.

“This has the potential knock-on effect of increasing their motivation and confidence to tackle other identified issues such as substance abuse and to take up educational or workshop opportunities,” he added.

what a load of bull!! ahern just stepped foot into a prison for the first time in his capacity of minister of justice a mere few months ago. and it was all of course mollycuddled. wtf does he comprehend or know what is going on on a daily basis? a football = a means of getting drugs. end of.

not a clue - like those in beladd house. anyway why do they hold their position for so long? they should only hold a term at the most of 3 years and send them back to jails. and not office jobs. send them back to what they are preaching on a pedestal from! send them back to running the landings!
glad some posters have the balls to stand up to them and tell them what for

cordub

So true bitterlemon , at the end of the day keeping the Prisoner happy seems to be the most important thing of all, to hell with the staff . Only for the great staff working in the prisons there would be bedlam. Thank God I'm not starting out now though I wonder will all the new highly educated PO of today have any sucess in rehabilitating the prisoner hmmmmmmm doubtful .

tommy57

cordub wrote: »

Totally agree with you Salut on that one. I think they do need to get back on the floor for a few months and actually talk to staff that are dealing with the new problems involving staff, seeing how fed up and disillusioned we are working with bosses who continually see only 1 side of a story . They are def promoting the RIGHT type of people , at least a few years back you were guaranteed the back up of your Chief now seems to be the opposite .I suppose its the new way of not rocking the prisoners boat!! SKY TV and FREE PHONE calls whats next one wonders!!!!:mad::mad: 1 million a year at least spent on free calls for prisoners wheres the recession there ???

Free health care, and apart from the fact they think their entitled to everything. then we get whacked out of it with wages.

Yourwellcum

cordub wrote: »

I was around for the PAYout as you call it. It was not a PAYout based on shafting new officers that were coming into the job by the way it was to compesated for new working practices ie the AH system ( that replaces overtime) that we are working now , the system that means that you must try and work out 16 weeks in advance what days you have to work extra, The compensation was fully TAXED which in my opinion and everyone elses opinions should never have happened as COMPENSATION when given in every other job is normally TAXFREE but once again being a public servant means the rules change!! If the deal wasnt accepted that time it was being brought in anyway so you tell me would you have said no to COMPENSATION. :eek:

Those new work practices still included the creation of the RPO position.
Before people get on there high horse, I have no issue with that deal or any other in which people were compensated. I certainly dont feel hard done by as I am still earning now more than I was previously and now have some security.

I dont see the sense on people turning on each other here or anywhere else. We all do the same job and know how tough it is at times, but also how good it can be working with some great people. I certainly didnt mean to offend anyone here with what I said. I was merely pointing out something. I can see how it might of been seen as inflammatory but that was not my intention. I have the utmost respect for senior officers who have seen and done it all before me and you wont find a person more willing to learn from them.

poolboy

bitter_lemon wrote: »

not a clue - like those in beladd house. anyway why do they hold their position for so long? they should only hold a term at the most of 3 years and send them back to jails. and not office jobs. send them back to what they are preaching on a pedestal from! send them back to running the landings!
glad some posters have the balls to stand up to them and tell them what for

Send them back to running the landings:D That implies they worked on the landings. Instuctors ye know who ye are and i know where ye came from for some it wasnt landings thats for sure

480905

Now lads thats where I have to differ with you. I know most of the instructors down there well, and I for one can vouch that most DID work on the landings. My first day in Mountjoy (17 years ago) and one of them was the Class Officer on A1. Hold fast blaming the instructors, they have a criteria to uphold that's dictated by the powers that be and that is what is taught. There is a curriculum and it has to be followed. Poor oul Fran Dowling wouldn't have coped in my day though with all the bull**** they're supposed to teach now......

Shield

For the viewers watching at home, anyone care to give us a detailed explanation of the term 'working on the landings' please?

cordub

480905 wrote: »

Now lads thats where I have to differ with you. I know most of the instructors down there well, and I for one can vouch that most DID work on the landings. My first day in Mountjoy (17 years ago) and one of them was the Class Officer on A1. Hold fast blaming the instructors, they have a criteria to uphold that's dictated by the powers that be and that is what is taught. There is a curriculum and it has to be followed. Poor oul Fran Dowling wouldn't have coped in my day though with all the bull**** they're supposed to teach now......

have to say you are right there, I know a couple too and they are following instructions as they say the **** comes right from the top down!!! Fran would crack at it alright lol I do remember 1 bit of advice he gave us all, watch your backs lads and watch the fella besides yous back too !! the o, "boot boy " prob impressed big time with the new curiculum though. Working on the landings plain and simply means looking after the area where the cells are, you are also unlocking the prisoners and looking after whatever they need ie putting down to see the doc, dentist , phyciatrist , welfare . you are called a class officers and in general would probably be the one that would have the most knowledge of a prisoner. it can be a very dangerous job as most times you are by yourself and the majority of fights happened on the landing , its a busy job in as there would be up to 40 prisoners to look after at a time. as a class officer itself you can be a target as you can imagine saying no and keeping control of some does not go down too well. lots of PO on the landings are injured for just doing there job!!!

cordub

To devieate slightly how do WOMEN get on in the job do you men think????:rolleyes: no derogatory comments please;);)

tommy57

cordub wrote: »

To devieate slightly how do WOMEN get on in the job do you men think????:rolleyes: no derogatory comments please;);)

some as good if not better than some men in my opinion.

cordub

tommy57 wrote: »

some as good if not better than some men in my opinion.

THANKS when we were first brought in to male prisons we were told in training that we would provide a CALMING influence lol am wondering would they dare say that in training now lol mind youI volunteered as the first women in my place to do classes and the rest of the women had a stroke I got some abuse:D:D . nowadays there are 4 women running our classes and doing a brilliant job !!! how times change !! for the good I might add!!!

poolboy

480905 wrote: »

Now lads thats where I have to differ with you. I know most of the instructors down there well, and I for one can vouch that most DID work on the landings. My first day in Mountjoy (17 years ago) and one of them was the Class Officer on A1. Hold fast blaming the instructors, they have a criteria to uphold that's dictated by the powers that be and that is what is taught. There is a curriculum and it has to be followed. Poor oul Fran Dowling wouldn't have coped in my day though with all the bull**** they're supposed to teach now......

I did say some did some didnt but the point remains the same recruits are being lectured to about working on landings by people who never did the job and personally i think its a disgrace

480905

Some female staff are useless, so are some male. Some are fantastic to work with, so are some male. There are more then the fair share of useless for each gender but also a big percentage of great staff...

bitter_lemon

480905 wrote: »

Now lads thats where I have to differ with you. I know most of the instructors down there well, and I for one can vouch that most DID work on the landings. My first day in Mountjoy (17 years ago) and one of them was the Class Officer on A1. Hold fast blaming the instructors, they have a criteria to uphold that's dictated by the powers that be and that is what is taught. There is a curriculum and it has to be followed. Poor oul Fran Dowling wouldn't have coped in my day though with all the bull**** they're supposed to teach now......

i am sure most of them did. i have no dispute there. they may have done all the donkey work and i see no fault in that. what i do have a problem is their lengthy stay there and in the process get magically turned into chiefs and governor grades. the environment has changed so much since they have last been in a jail and when and if they do come back they will not really have to deal with the fallout in an "in your face" scenario.

bitter_lemon

cordub wrote: »

To devieate slightly how do WOMEN get on in the job do you men think????:rolleyes: no derogatory comments please;);)

lol cordub i didn't know you were a sheeser :P

how do women get on in the job? some are better than the men! although some of them should be working in flower shops! some of them use their gender to their advantage (lets be honest now). they can bat their eyelashes and get nice cushy numbers. :mad:

there are also some brilliant female officers that i would prefer to work side by side by than some of the men anyday.

anon a sheeser

cordub

bitter_lemon wrote: »

lol cordub i didn't know you were a sheeser :P

how do women get on in the job? some are better than the men! although some of them should be working in flower shops! some of them use their gender to their advantage (lets be honest now). they can bat their eyelashes and get nice cushy numbers. :mad:

there are also some brilliant female officers that i would prefer to work side by side by than some of the men anyday.

anon a sheeser

GEE thanks BL a compliment in there I'm sure lol your dead right about the batting bit lol would prefare the batting to the ratting though ;) can say the same about my male counterparts too not the batting bit lol. god help the flower shops though !!!