Prison Officer

Rawhead

thereal wrote: »

I reckon its all the one anyway, heaps of recruits left after their first payslip as it was so low. Ridiculous really expecting people to start a job on 300 when your 8-5 then knock it up to 380 when your on the roster and have to live in dublin where 20-30% of your wages are payed on rent alone not to mind petrol food,bills and all the other miscellaneous costs of living. I would be impossible to save a cent for 10yrs not to mind even think about buying a house, car or even jocks haha

The days of joining our job when you already have a family and mortgage are over. The people who will be able join our job from now on in are young people who have no major overheads.
I for one think this is a good idea. The standard of officer that joined in the last five years has dropped significantly. Why would we want some fat lazy 40 something year old joining the job, if you haven't chosen your career by that stage of your life then your not one of life's great success's. The maximum age limit for our job should be 35 at most. These yokes come in with the attitude of "I've seen it all and I'm not going to have some 26 year old tell me how things work", they also start looking for the handy number straight away and avoid the lag like the plague.

On a more positive note I notice that the newest recruits (2010 panel I think) are greatly improved, fit, young and enthusiastic. The introduction of the fitness test was a great idea and should be rolled out for all officers across the service. I know it's going to offend a lot of officers but what came into the job from 2005 to 2010 was by and large the bottom of the barrel. I know this is unfair to the good officers who came in during that time but it's an unavoidable fact that standards were lowered in the Celtic tiger era because no one was going for the job and they took anything that applied.

bitter_lemon

whats the story with all the thanking of the posts? if you agree with someone sure but there are differing opinions that run totally contrary to each other and they are still getting thanked by the same poster. i find this very confusing and hard to understand

Arco 08

Rawhead wrote: »

The days of joining our job when you already have a family and mortgage are over. The people who will be able join our job from now on in are young people who have no major overheads.
I for one think this is a good idea. The standard of officer that joined in the last five years has dropped significantly. Why would we want some fat lazy 40 something year old joining the job, if you haven't chosen your career by that stage of your life then your not one of life's great success's. The maximum age limit for our job should be 35 at most. These yokes come in with the attitude of "I've seen it all and I'm not going to have some 26 year old tell me how things work", they also start looking for the handy number straight away and avoid the lag like the plague.

On a more positive note I notice that the newest recruits (2010 panel I think) are greatly improved, fit, young and enthusiastic. The introduction of the fitness test was a great idea and should be rolled out for all officers across the service. I know it's going to offend a lot of officers but what came into the job from 2005 to 2010 was by and large the bottom of the barrel. I know this is unfair to the good officers who came in during that time but it's an unavoidable fact that standards were lowered in the Celtic tiger era because no one was going for the job and they took anything that applied.

I think all us potential recruits are very lucky to have rawhead to guide us,he seems to know how the ips should recruit people and how a prison should be ran,i think hes definitely a prison governor in the making.

sodbuster77

Rawhead wrote: »

The days of joining our job when you already have a family and mortgage are over. The people who will be able join our job from now on in are young people who have no major overheads.
I for one think this is a good idea. The standard of officer that joined in the last five years has dropped significantly. Why would we want some fat lazy 40 something year old joining the job, if you haven't chosen your career by that stage of your life then your not one of life's great success's. The maximum age limit for our job should be 35 at most. These yokes come in with the attitude of "I've seen it all and I'm not going to have some 26 year old tell me how things work", they also start looking for the handy number straight away and avoid the lag like the plague.

On a more positive note I notice that the newest recruits (2010 panel I think) are greatly improved, fit, young and enthusiastic. The introduction of the fitness test was a great idea and should be rolled out for all officers across the service. I know it's going to offend a lot of officers but what came into the job from 2005 to 2010 was by and large the bottom of the barrel. I know this is unfair to the good officers who came in during that time but it's an unavoidable fact that standards were lowered in the Celtic tiger era because no one was going for the job and they took anything that applied.

There are plenty of people who have had to look for new careers thanks to the recession.

bitter_lemon

Rawhead wrote: »

The days of joining our job when you already have a family and mortgage are over. The people who will be able join our job from now on in are young people who have no major overheads.
I for one think this is a good idea. The standard of officer that joined in the last five years has dropped significantly. Why would we want some fat lazy 40 something year old joining the job, if you haven't chosen your career by that stage of your life then your not one of life's great success's. The maximum age limit for our job should be 35 at most. These yokes come in with the attitude of "I've seen it all and I'm not going to have some 26 year old tell me how things work", they also start looking for the handy number straight away and avoid the lag like the plague.

On a more positive note I notice that the newest recruits (2010 panel I think) are greatly improved, fit, young and enthusiastic. The introduction of the fitness test was a great idea and should be rolled out for all officers across the service. I know it's going to offend a lot of officers but what came into the job from 2005 to 2010 was by and large the bottom of the barrel. I know this is unfair to the good officers who came in during that time but it's an unavoidable fact that standards were lowered in the Celtic tiger era because no one was going for the job and they took anything that applied.

what a load of horse **** :rolleyes: thats like saying all the people that joined over 20 years ago all beat the crap out of the prisoners, sit on their hole all day and drink tea and biscuits and then forget to come back from the pub at lunchtime. you are generalizing ott there.

i have never experienced "some fat forty something year old yolk" as you put it come in as a new recruit with that attitude. i have seen a lot of them behave like that from the dinosaur era! and most of them from that era are deadwood, a thorn in the side. they can't even walk properly never mind give a hand in a fight. useless!

Rawhead

sodbuster77 wrote: »

There are plenty of people who have had to look for new careers thanks to the recession.

The recession has nothing to do with most of the people I'm talking about going for our job. The way it works in the prison service is similar to a lot of jobs in that you start with the tough numbers and it gets gradually easier or at least that's the way its meant to be.
You start off on the landings, in the yards and the recs. These are the posts that attract most hassle and hence you need fit able bodies to deal with the rough and tumble. The lags are young and fit and the officers need to be likewise. After a few years you move on to posts that aren't as confrontational, you have built up years of good jailcraft and the next batch of recruits take up the front line posts.
The problem is that your average 44 year old recruit is unable to deal with a 19 year old lag who spends 4 hours per day in the gym so he quickly realises that he needs to "ingratiate" himself with management to get off the landings quickly. He looks at the other people his age in the job and sees they are either promoted or on allowances and thinks he should have the same, he forgets that the other people his age have 20 years service and did all the crap posts years ago.

The problem with our job is we allow the slackers, cowards and lushes to get away with it. How many of us have pulled on the clown who refuses to take keys or doesn't give over correct numbers. These are the people who should be shunned and ridiculed but instead the lad who pulls them on it ends up the target.

Lawros Tache

bitter_lemon wrote: »

i have never experienced "some fat forty something year old yolk" as you put it come in as a new recruit with that attitude.

Must say that i definately have.

I agree with RawHead on this one. If i'm reading him correctly then i dont think he's referring to them brand new in the door.
When they first come they're like everybody else, myself included, scared sh*tless and paying attention to everything.

But fast forward two months down the line (normally when the next batch of recruits come in...) and suddenly they're a different beast altogether. They've become more used to the prisoner and the reality of the money & shifts have hit their family lives, & suddenly they're begrudging everybody & everything.

They resent what they perceive as the sh*tty end of the stick, and feel that the 30 year-old "kid" telling them what to do should hand over the keys and feck off out to the yard leaving them to be in charge. Despite the fact that they haven't got a clue & the "kid" has been working on landings for 9 years!

Well i'll tell you what Bud, how about you start with banging out a few doors, actually doing a count, or even covering a break-glass... Anything in fact except leaning over the railings chatting with your mates, not having a clue what's actually happening on the landing.

Unfortunately, in my experience, it's invariably the older more "life-experienced" recruits who have this attitude, presumably as they had worked themselves up to a management position out in the world, and have years of management experience. They are used to applying for jobs where they come straight into a senior position. That's all fine of course except for the fact that they have now chosen a career where they are most definately entry level, and being a disicipline-orientated job, seniority counts for everything.

I actually overheard two recruits a couple of months ago discussing the transfer system and decided that it would be much more fair to scrap the seniority rule and go instead with the ones who lived closest to each prison getting the transfers first no matter how long they were in!!

I'm obviously not saying that attitude or laziness is exclusive to older recruits but the staff shortages have meant that we have had some very senior officers redeployed from their panels and back on the landings recently, and i have to say that it was a pleasure to work alongside them.

In one instance i had one recruit ask me who did i think i was asking him to cover a break-glass, that i wasn't an ACO! Before i got a chance to reply a guy with 22 years experience said "he's the class officer bud, he's in charge. I'm in this job 22 years & if he tells me to stand on a gate then that's exactly what i'll be doing."


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cordub

I think we have all come across asses in our job no matter what age or what service but I think its the same in every job,We have bullies and wasters and at the same time have some who are absolutley brilliant at there job and make coming to work in such a ****ty envoiroment somewhat a pleasure thank god the wasters are in the minority:D

slim1919

Rawhead wrote: »

.if you haven't chosen your career by that stage of your life then your not one of life's great success's. .

i think thats a bit unfair life's great success just because you fell into a good career at a young age doesent mean every one dose

slim1919

bitter_lemon wrote: »

whats the story with all the thanking of the posts? if you agree with someone sure but there are differing opinions that run totally contrary to each other and they are still getting thanked by the same poster. i find this very confusing and hard to understand

i dont know about any body else but i thank posts when i think the post makes a good point i dont see any think wrong with that

cordub

slim1919 wrote: »

i dont know about any body else but i thank posts when i think the post makes a good point i dont see any think wrong with that

have to agree with yhat point a lot of good points made on this thread so its great to see we all think similarly no matter where we work wheather thats a good sign im not sure lol:rolleyes::rolleyes:

senordingdong

Lawros Tache wrote: »

I actually overheard two recruits a couple of months ago discussing the transfer system and decided that it would be much more fair to scrap the seniority rule and go instead with the ones who lived closest to each prison getting the transfers first no matter how long they were in!!

Come on, a part of you has to see something wrong with this system.

cordub

senordingdong wrote: »

Come on, a part of you has to see something wrong with this system.

i dont agree , i think its the fairest system going how else could you do it ??I cant think of another way if you go by who lives in the area they want to work in do you measure distances or what?? Suggest a fair system to me ???

senordingdong

cordub wrote: »

i dont agree , i think its the fairest system going how else could you do it ??I cant think of another way if you go by who lives in the area they want to work in do you measure distances or what?? Suggest a fair system to me ???

I think the sensible way to do it would be the obvious way to do it, by sending people to the jails closest to their homes.
I accept it's more complicated than that, but I see the prison service as a whole, is in dire need of an overhaul.

cordub

senordingdong wrote: »

I think the sensible way to do it would be the obvious way to do it, by sending people to the jails closest to their homes.
I accept it's more complicated than that, but I see the prison service as a whole, is in dire need of an overhaul.
sorry i dissagree there are a huge number of people from cork looking to come to cork and now that there are no movements of staff due to shortages and no new staff coming online how would you then decide in a years time who should get cork ?? you would have to go by senority there is no other way thats fair otherwise you would have people onto their tds to get them moved before someone else thats would cause hugh bitterness in the jails as it is when a junior staff gets promoted and because of that manages to get to the country jails ahead of others there is an awful lot of resentment. promotion seems to be the only way to skip the long wait ! I hear its nearly 8 years wait to get to cork even though its supposed to be very understaffed !!!! not fair at all to those on the list !! the attitude seems to be fill the dublin jail with staff and feck those waiting for years to get home :mad::mad::mad:

senordingdong

cordub wrote: »

senordingdong wrote: »

I think the sensible way to do it would be the obvious way to do it, by sending people to the jails closest to their homes.
I accept it's more complicated than that, but I see the prison service as a whole, is in dire need of an overhaul.
sorry i dissagree there are a huge number of people from cork looking to come to cork and now that there are no movements of staff due to shortages and no new staff coming online how would you then decide in a years time who should get cork ?? you would have to go by senority there is no other way thats fair otherwise you would have people onto their tds to get them moved before someone else thats would cause hugh bitterness in the jails as it is when a junior staff gets promoted and because of that manages to get to the country jails ahead of others there is an awful lot of resentment. promotion seems to be the only way to skip the long wait ! I hear its nearly 8 years wait to get to cork even though its supposed to be very understaffed !!!! not fair at all to those on the list !! the attitude seems to be fill the dublin jail with staff and feck those waiting for years to get home :mad::mad::mad:

I don't think it's fair that recruits should have to wait ten years or whatever to get back home. Likewise, I don't think it was fair that the older officers had to wait ten years to get home.

cordub

senordingdong wrote: »

cordub wrote: »

I don't think it's fair that recruits should have to wait ten years or whatever to get back home. Likewise, I don't think it was fair that the older officers had to wait ten years to get home.

I agree think we will see fewer country lads going for the job as they can barely afford to live in dublin I hear and then pay the expense of travelling home def not too many married fella s , couldnt blame them really .:(:(

slim1919

cordub wrote: »

senordingdong wrote: »

I agree think we will see fewer country lads going for the job as they can barely afford to live in dublin I hear and then pay the expense of travelling home def not too many married fella s , couldnt blame them really .:(:(

i really dont see y they use just dublin when u have Portlaoise Cork and Limerick which are all big prisons y cant thay send some new recruits there to start up would make things alot easyer

Shield

slim1919 wrote: »

i really dont see y they use just dublin when u have Portlaoise Cork and Limerick which are all big prisons y cant thay send some new recruits there to start up would make things alot easyer

Text speak. Please knock it off. There's a rule against it. Thanks.

cordub

slim1919 wrote: »

cordub wrote: »

i really dont see y they use just dublin when u have Portlaoise Cork and Limerick which are all big prisons y cant thay send some new recruits there to start up would make things alot easyer

but again im asking how do you decide fairly who gets down ahead of others??? there is no FAIRER way than the way it is been done , thats just what I think though. suggest aniother system thats fair, anyway you will just have to get used to the seniority thing im afraid because almost everything is given away this way IE Posts and AL well it is where i work . I had to wait years to get summer hols in july and august and thats just the way it goes unfair or not suck it up lol you too will apprieciate your seniority when you get there :)

Lawros Tache

senordingdong wrote: »

Come on, a part of you has to see something wrong with this system.

i rest my case...

slim1919

cordub wrote: »

slim1919 wrote: »

but again im asking how do you decide fairly who gets down ahead of others??? there is no FAIRER way than the way it is been done , thats just what I think though. suggest aniother system thats fair, anyway you will just have to get used to the seniority thing im afraid because almost everything is given away this way IE Posts and AL well it is where i work . I had to wait years to get summer hols in july and august and thats just the way it goes unfair or not suck it up lol you too will apprieciate your seniority when you get there :)

i am from dublin so it dose not effect me the transfer part anyway i was just trying to give a different way to do it alldo i am not in yet so what do i know

and really flaging my post for Text speak for using two y,s and one u is a bit harsh you can hardly call that post text speak

Rawhead

slim1919 wrote: »

cordub wrote: »

i am from dublin so it dose not effect me the transfer part anyway i was just trying to give a different way to do it alldo i am not in yet so what do i know

and really flaging my post for Text speak for using two y,s and one u is a bit harsh you can hardly call that post text speak

It's not the text speak but the dire spelling and punctuation that you need to sort first boss.
Cork prison currently has over a 12 year waiting list. With regards to seniority and transfers, its the only show in town. The minute you let personalities or family circumstances come into the transfer or leave process them you are finished. You ask any member of the Gardai would they like our system of transfer over their system and see what answer you get.
If you have a family of eight children in the arsehole of Mayo and you join the job then you know what you are signing up for and you wait like everyone else, if your not prepared to wait then join another job.
The only people who ever have a problem with the seniority system is rookies and then only till they see how the IPS would operate without it. I do see the need to put suitable people in positions on the floor and I think seniority shouldn't be the only criteria used with regards panels etc.

I genuinely shudder at the thought of all the nepotism and bullying that would result from transfers being based on a Governors recommendation..

Yourwellcum

Seniority is the only fair way. While I sympathise with the country lads waiting to get back home, you know the story from day one so there is little point in complaining.

senordingdong

Rawhead wrote: »

slim1919 wrote: »

If you have a family of eight children in the arsehole of Mayo and you join the job then you know what you are signing up for and you wait like everyone else, if your not prepared to wait then join another job.

Maybe for some but I know that this system wasn't made aware to my group until our second week, when we were knee deep in training. If it had been outlined in the job description on Public Jobs, then I would agree with you. But telling somebody after they have been through a recruitment process of two years, and are now a week into training, wearing the uniform seems a bit conniving to me.

I don't think that the older officers who did wait should be passed over, but I think that instead of telling rookies to 'hang on a few years', like it was no big deal, should be told straight up that their best bet is to relocate altogether.

slim1919

Rawhead wrote: »

slim1919 wrote: »

It's not the text speak but the dire spelling and punctuation that you need to sort first boss.
Cork prison currently has over a 12 year waiting list. With regards to seniority and transfers, its the only show in town. The minute you let personalities or family circumstances come into the transfer or leave process them you are finished. You ask any member of the Gardai would they like our system of transfer over their system and see what answer you get.
If you have a family of eight children in the arsehole of Mayo and you join the job then you know what you are signing up for and you wait like everyone else, if your not prepared to wait then join another job.
The only people who ever have a problem with the seniority system is rookies and then only till they see how the IPS would operate without it. I do see the need to put suitable people in positions on the floor and I think seniority shouldn't be the only criteria used with regards panels etc.

I genuinely shudder at the thought of all the nepotism and bullying that would result from transfers being based on a Governors recommendation..

i am sorry i am bad at spelling but i will get over it thanks for pointing that out
i am not in the job so i do not know what goes on all i said was i really dont see why they use just dublin when you have Portlaoise Cork and Limerick which are all big prisons why cant thay send some new recruits there to start up would make things alot easyer but i all so said that i am not in the job and that i dont know what goes on and i have said before that it clearly states that u have to work in dublin

slim1919

senordingdong wrote: »

Rawhead wrote: »

Maybe for some but I know that this system wasn't made aware to my group until our second week, when we were knee deep in training. If it had been outlined in the job description on Public Jobs, then I would agree with you. But telling somebody after they have been through a recruitment process of two years, and are now a week into training, wearing the uniform seems a bit conniving to me.

I don't think that the older officers who did wait should be passed over, but I think that instead of telling rookies to 'hang on a few years', like it was no big deal, should be told straight up that their best bet is to relocate altogether.

sorry to say but it clearly states it here

Where might I be working?
On recruitment and following initial training, Recruit Prison Officers will be assigned to vacancies
in the major prisons in the Dublin area as well as the Prison Service Escort Corps. Recruit Prison
Officers will be liable to be assigned to other areas of the Irish Prison Service from time to time

and that was on the
INFORMATION BOOKLET for 2008

Rawhead

I'm not having a go at country lads and waited nearly 8 years to get my transfer out of the smoke. I'm telling ye lads it's the fairest and best way, the alternatives are beyond scary. Here is the current waiting time for the big jails.
Portlaoise 5yrs
Limerick 5-7yrs
Cork 14yrs+
Castlerea 3yrs
The vast majority of people know a PO before they join and are told the score, if not, you know by the end of your second day in training. We all know people who have weaseled a transfer before their time, usually by the AIS route and they are despised.
All of this goes back to my earlier point, the days of people joining this job in midlife with a family and mortgage are gone (unless you live in or near Dublin).

senordingdong

slim1919 wrote: »

senordingdong wrote: »

sorry to say but it clearly states it here

Where might I be working?
On recruitment and following initial training, Recruit Prison Officers will be assigned to vacancies
in the major prisons in the Dublin area as well as the Prison Service Escort Corps. Recruit Prison
Officers will be liable to be assigned to other areas of the Irish Prison Service from time to time

and that was on the
INFORMATION BOOKLET for 2008

Well then I'll just have to agree with you.

slim1919

Rawhead wrote: »

I'm not having a go at country lads and waited nearly 8 years to get my transfer out of the smoke. I'm telling ye lads it's the fairest and best way, the alternatives are beyond scary. Here is the current waiting time for the big jails.
Portlaoise 5yrs
Limerick 5-7yrs
Cork 14yrs+
Castlerea 3yrs
The vast majority of people know a PO before they join and are told the score, if not, you know by the end of your second day in training. We all know people who have weaseled a transfer before their time, usually by the AIS route and they are despised.
All of this goes back to my earlier point, the days of people joining this job in midlife with a family and mortgage are gone (unless you live in or near Dublin).

man i would hate to be from cork going for this job 14+ years to get home that would be hard thank god i am from dublin going for it