The Cutting Edge 01/08/08

Vince135792003

Here it is for those that missed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmpP-yCNv2M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNOXTIBgqJI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSakJykAIIA&feature=related

I was just wondering for those that seen it, what they thought of it?

I thought it was tremendous, one of the best segments on a WWE show I've seen this year. Both Foley and Edge played their roles tremendously and it really got over Hell in the Cell.

Machismo Fan

This was one of the best segments that I have seen in months, it gives Edge a reason to abandon his cowardly ways and become more malicious and intense. Foley was exceptional, easily better than all the WWE have today (with the exception of Edge) on the mic'. It was just an excellent ending to the show.

Mr.Nice Guy

Top segment. Thanks for highlighting it. Edge really is a terrific heel and has a lot of layers to his character. It would be hard to argue against him being the best heel in the biz right now.

I liked it when he had tears in his eyes when Mick was talking about how he made the letters TLC important.

It does raise an interesting question about the direction they go for Summerslam. With Taker coming back you'd fancy he'd go over but that would be another loss against Edge in as many weeks. Will Edge be put over strong?

I'm not crazy about the rest of the Summerslam card but I must say that match intrigues me.

Bounty Hunter

God, I love Mick Foley 5mins of a foley promo is better than half an hour of a normal show.

Vince135792003

I think Undertaker will win the Hell in a Cell match.

It makes the most sense but I think come January, Edge wil be the holding the belt with Triple H chasing him.

Minto

It makes sense to put Edge over and now is the time to do it, plu sit'd make a change from Undertaker returning and getting a win! That got stale a long time ago. I don't know what WWE are planning on doing with SmackDown! after SummerSlam, cos Undertaker/Triple H won't work if they are both faces, Edge/Triple H has been pretty much done for now and Edge/Undertaker is gonna be finished come SummerSlam. So maybe we'll see Jeff Hardy, Big Show, MVP and maybe Umaga in the main event places too.

rovert

Minto wrote: »

It makes sense to put Edge over and now is the time to do it, plu sit'd make a change from Undertaker returning and getting a win! That got stale a long time ago. I don't know what WWE are planning on doing with SmackDown! after SummerSlam, cos Undertaker/Triple H won't work if they are both faces, Edge/Triple H has been pretty much done for now

I disagree with all of the above.

Fozzy

rovert wrote: »

I disagree with all of the above.

Me too. I think Undertaker's winning, it's a long running feud and I think the face is coming out on top in the end, which I think this is. Plus Undertaker's still a bigger star than Edge and I don't see them trying to upset that balance yet. And most of the guys that Undertaker has "put over", he's won the last match with them

Undertaker and HHH feuding as faces could work, but I think they'll be turning HHH heel before they get around to that feud anyway

rovert

Fozzy wrote: »

Undertaker and HHH feuding as faces could work, but I think they'll be turning HHH heel before they get around to that feud anyway

I really hope they keep Taker/HHH for Wrestlemania as it is one of the major matches they have left. I agree does HHH does need to turn before that happens as he is just spinning his wheels as a babyface champion. I wonder how will go heel first Batista or HHH.

JP Liz

Absolutely pure gold

Bounty Hunter

what do you by have left rovert cos HHH vs Taker has happened at WM before?

rovert

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

what do you by have left rovert cos HHH vs Taker has happened at WM before?

Yeah seven years ago

Minto

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

what do you by have left rovert cos HHH vs Taker has happened at WM before?

I agree, Hunter will be heel, Taker will be face and he will go over! It's the exact same as WM X7 and if they do it, I guarantee certain people who want it now will be up in arms about rehashing of feuds come 'Mania time!
Also, I think there is very little chance of WWE making Taker heel and keeping Hunter face for WM. There is an even smaller chance of Hunter going over Taker at WM, so why bother?

JP Liz

Minto wrote: »

It makes sense to put Edge over and now is the time to do it, plu sit'd make a change from Undertaker returning and getting a win! That got stale a long time ago. I don't know what WWE are planning on doing with SmackDown! after SummerSlam, cos Undertaker/Triple H won't work if they are both faces, Edge/Triple H has been pretty much done for now and Edge/Undertaker is gonna be finished come SummerSlam. So maybe we'll see Jeff Hardy, Big Show, MVP and maybe Umaga in the main event places too.

I like to see an Edge/Mr. Kennedy feud for the WWE title

rovert

Minto wrote: »

I agree, Hunter will be heel, Taker will be face and he will go over! It's the exact same as WM X7 and if they do it, I guarantee certain people who want it now will be up in arms about rehashing of feuds come 'Mania time!
Also, I think there is very little chance of WWE making Taker heel and keeping Hunter face for WM. There is an even smaller chance of Hunter going over Taker at WM, so why bother?

What else do they have? Those certain people will watch Mania anyway, the majority of WWE's audience probably never saw Wrestlemania 17.

Minto

JP Liz wrote: »

I like to see an Edge/Mr. Kennedy feud for the WWE title

I think either Triple H Vs. MVP or Edge Vs. Jeff. I don't think Kennedy is main event wrestlemania material just yet.

grames_bond

JP Liz wrote: »

I like to see an Edge/Mr. Kennedy feud for the WWE title

i think this has the making of a great feud! and i would defo put kennedy ahead of mvp, hes a better allround superstar imo!

ShawnRaven

I think i must be the only one here that was completely underwhelmed by that promo after the buildup everyone here gave it. I thought Jericho's promo on RAW absolutely destroyed.

Had Foley not pulled a very similar promo to Terry Funk two years ago, i would have found it amazing. But he did, and so I didn't.

VR!

Bounty Hunter

tbh SD's main event at the moment I would expect to be Edge vs HHH, the last match wasnt built big, hell it was all about Vicki and Edges nuptuals and also ended due to Vicki and the wedding planner getting involved. It was just a match they had to have because HHH showed up with a belt on "Edge's Show" where he had been the top dog. Undertakers return has put that feud on the back-burner but not gotten rid of it and when it returns to the limelight it will be all about the wrestlers differences and the Title. I dont know who would be heel or face by then but would not be shocked if it stayed as it is now, Edge (Heel) HHH (Face). Meanwhile Taker could have another streak match elivating someone storyline wise but taking the victory and any momentum from someone like Mr Kennedy

Vince135792003

validreasoning! wrote: »

I think i must be the only one here that was completely underwhelmed by that promo after the buildup everyone here gave it. I thought Jericho's promo on RAW absolutely destroyed.

Had Foley not pulled a very similar promo to Terry Funk two years ago, i would have found it amazing. But he did, and so I didn't.

VR!

You never even mentioned Edge. He was great in his role in the segment too.

rovert

validreasoning! wrote: »

I think i must be the only one here that was completely underwhelmed by that promo after the buildup everyone here gave it. I thought Jericho's promo on RAW absolutely destroyed.

Had Foley not pulled a very similar promo to Terry Funk two years ago, i would have found it amazing. But he did, and so I didn't.

VR!

The promo between Flair and Foley where Mick mention Flair's kids was so much better than this and the Funk one.

rovert

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

tbh SD's main event at the moment I would expect to be Edge vs HHH, the last match wasnt built big, hell it was all about Vicki and Edges nuptuals and also ended due to Vicki and the wedding planner getting involved. It was just a match they had to have because HHH showed up with a belt on "Edge's Show" where he had been the top dog. Undertakers return has put that feud on the back-burner but not gotten rid of it and when it returns to the limelight it will be all about the wrestlers differences and the Title. I dont know who would be heel or face by then but would not be shocked if it stayed as it is now, Edge (Heel) HHH (Face). Meanwhile Taker could have another streak match elivating someone storyline wise but taking the victory and any momentum from someone like Mr Kennedy

Jason Powell mentioned that WWE decided to move away from HHH & Edge as fast as they possibly could after Great American. As they have some sort of long term plan involving the two feuding. Which is way we got the randomness of HHH vs. The Great Khali

Bounty Hunter

thats my thinking put it on the backburner cos long term it might be Wrestlemania material but it kinda had to happen in some form after the draft, until Taker returned anyway.

Minto

grames_bond wrote: »

i would defo put kennedy ahead of mvp, hes a better allround superstar imo!

You've got to be kidding me! MVP is miles ahead of Kennedy. I like Kennedy, but his mic skills are basically him saying his name twice and his in-ring skills are only alright! MVP on the other hand is a great promo guy and has proved he can hang with the best of them. Also, he was involved in one of the best feuds of last year with Matt Hardy!

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote: »

You never even mentioned Edge. He was great in his role in the segment too.

I didn't have to mention Edge, as Edge was being the same Edge he has been since around Taboo Tuesday 2005 (i think), where he becomes obsessed with the world title.

VR!

rovert

Minto wrote: »

You've got to be kidding me! MVP is miles ahead of Kennedy. I like Kennedy, but his mic skills are basically him saying his name twice and his in-ring skills are only alright! MVP on the other hand is a great promo guy and has proved he can hang with the best of them. Also, he was involved in one of the best feuds of last year with Matt Hardy!

Also MVP isnt a mong.

Vince135792003

JR wrote a bit about it in his blog:

Before I go any farther, a tip of the black hat goes to Mick Foley for his contributions to Friday Night Smackdown this week. The closing segment with Edge and Foley verbalizing before physicality broke out in a major way is the type of "in ring wrestling talk" that as a fan I love. Edge and Foley rose to the occasion in a mesmerizing final segment on Friday Night Smackdown. The follow up for this incident should make for an interesting broadcast next Friday night.

grames_bond

Minto wrote: »

You've got to be kidding me! MVP is miles ahead of Kennedy. I like Kennedy, but his mic skills are basically him saying his name twice and his in-ring skills are only alright! MVP on the other hand is a great promo guy and has proved he can hang with the best of them. Also, he was involved in one of the best feuds of last year with Matt Hardy!

gonna have to disagree with ya there! i think when given the time kennedys mic skills are brilliant, mvp just to me seems like a jumped up dee-lo brown from back in the day!

and i also believe kennedy more when he is against the big guns, with convincing wins over the big stars like HBK under his belt!

Bubs101

In fairness to Kennedy, he doesn't need to do any more than he does. The fans adore it and when they get bored of it I'm sure he'll excell on the mic

rovert

You got to know JR is on Mick's side. Mick Foley could be the person who changes Vince's approach as he did with the Eddieploitation of 2006.

Bubs101 wrote: »

In fairness to Kennedy, he doesn't need to do any more than he does. The fans adore it and when they get bored of it I'm sure he'll excell on the mic

The ****?

rovert

grames_bond wrote: »

gonna have to disagree with ya there! i think when given the time kennedys mic skills are brilliant!

Boring more like, give me an example of one "brillant" promo he has had.

grames_bond wrote: »

mvp just to me seems like a jumped up dee-lo brown from back in the day!

D Lo Brown was touted as the next Rock holding both Euro & IC belts before he broke Droz's neck.

grames_bond wrote: »

and i also believe kennedy* more when he is against the big guns, with convincing wins over the big stars like HBK under his belt!

*Insert any other Wrestlers name here

Trust me HBK has no intention of wrestling Kennedy again let alone jobbing for him.

Bubs101

rovert wrote: »

The ****?

And what am I meant to garner from this one word response?

nacho libre

Vince135792003 wrote: »

Here it is for those that missed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmpP-yCNv2M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNOXTIBgqJI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSakJykAIIA&feature=related

I was just wondering for those that seen it, what they thought of it?

I thought it was tremendous, one of the best segments on a WWE show I've seen this year. Both Foley and Edge played their roles tremendously and it really got over Hell in the Cell.

yes it was. i'm surprised you don't see a role for Foley beyond announcing. I hope you are wrong and this was in fact a precursor to another in-ring role for Foley!

rovert

Bubs101 wrote: »

And what am I meant to garner from this one word response?

What answer is appropriate for this drivel then:

Bubs101 wrote: »

In fairness to Kennedy, he doesn't need to do any more than he does. The fans adore it and when they get bored of it I'm sure he'll excel on the mic

These two lines kind of contradict each other firstly.

Bubs101 wrote: »

In fairness to Kennedy, he doesn't need to do any more than he does.

Yeah if he loves life in the midcard. :rolleyes: His ringwork is far below main event level. Not to mention he is very careless and doesn’t have the greatest grasp of ring psychology.

Bubs101 wrote: »

The fans adore it and when they get bored of it I'm sure he'll excell on the mic

Adoring is bit of stretch. He doesn’t excel on the mic as many of his peers are far better and get better reactions.

JP Liz

MVP is going to feud with Jeff Hardy which is a shame i'd liked him mic time with HHH and they could have a decent feud.

Edge beat Mr. Kennedy for his MITB title shot and this needs to be explored more now they are on the same show.

I would def put MVP, Jeff Hardy and Mr. Kennedy ahead of Khali for a title shot. If they all keep clean i think all are future WWE title holders.

Is HHH turning heel again?

rovert

JP Liz wrote: »

Is HHH turning heel again?

Later than sooner.

nacho libre

rovert wrote: »

I really hope they keep Taker/HHH for Wrestlemania as it is one of the major matches they have left. I agree does HHH does need to turn before that happens as he is just spinning his wheels as a babyface champion. I wonder how will go heel first Batista or HHH.

Given Undertaker's favourite Wrestlemania match was againt Triple H in his hometown. With this Wrestlemania, which could be his last, again in his hometown I'd say it's very likely

Bubs101

rovert wrote: »

These two lines kind of contradict each other firstly..

Mind pointing out the contradiction then?

rovert wrote: »

Yeah if he loves life in the midcard. :rolleyes: His ringwork is far below main event level. Not to mention he is very careless and doesn’t have the greatest grasp of ring psychology..

That's taken out of context. I was reffering to his mic work and he already has been within touching distance of the Main Event without doing any more than he's doing now

rovert wrote: »

Adoring is bit of stretch. He doesn’t excel on the mic as many of his peers are far better and get better reactions.

I don't see how adoring is a strectch. Take last week's Smackdown and before the match had already started Kennedy had the crowd in the palm of his hand. The whole arena was shouting out his catchphrase for crying out loud. Who else gets that reaction ATM?

rovert

nacho libre wrote: »

Given Undertaker's favourite Wrestlemania match was againt Triple H in his hometown. With this Wrestlemania, which could be his last, again in his hometown I'd say it's very likely

I never knew that, Taker will be keeping the same schedule until like 2013. After which it is likely he'll take on a Sting in TNA type role.

rovert

Bubs101 wrote: »

Mind pointing out the contradiction then?

That's taken out of context. I was reffering to his mic work and he already has been within touching distance of the Main Event without doing any more than he's doing now

I don't see how adoring is a strectch. Take last week's Smackdown and before the match had already started Kennedy had the crowd in the palm of his hand. The whole arena was shouting out his catchphrase for crying out loud. Who else gets that reaction ATM?

Kennedy should work to improve and not just run a gimmick into the ground. He should find ways to maintain fan interest. To say "he doesn't need to do any more than he does" simple isnt true and is in fact Kennedy's problem. MVP won the Wrestling Observer's Most Improved Wrestler in 2007 Kennedy wasnt in the running:

Most Improved

1. MVP (305) - 1,966
2. Claudio Castagnoli (34) - 564
3. Tomko
4. Takeshi Morishiam
5. Candice Michelle
6. Jeff Hardy
7. Umaga
8. John Cena
9. Hirooki Goto
10. Batista

It wasnt out of context as you didnt frame your post in a specfic context.

The catchphrase is more over then he is, once the bell rings the crowd dies. Catchphrases dont sell PPV or gain ratings. Hardly adoration there.

Bubs101

rovert wrote: »

Kennedy should work to improve and not just run a gimmick into the ground. He should find ways to maintain fan interest. To say "he doesn't need to do any more than he does" simple isnt true and is in fact Kennedy's problem. MVP won Most Improved Wrestler in 2007 Kennedy wasnt in the running.

It wasnt out of context as you didnt frame your post in a specfic context.

That's because Kennedy was much better than MVP in 2006. MVP had alot further to go and Mr. Kennedy had a bad 2007 after getting injured/suspended and it was certainly his most dissapointing year in the comapny. Not because he was terrible but because that was the year he was expected to break the glass ceiling. I agree with you that if Kennedy wants to get and stay at the main event he needs to do more but at the moment the crowd are happy with what they see and Kennedy is very over

rovert wrote: »

The catchphrase is more over then he is, once the bell rings the crowd dies. Catchphrases dont sell PPV or gain ratings. Hardly adoration there.

Midcarders don't sell PPV's either and it will be impossible to judge his drawing power until he does (the Royal Rumble doesn't really count because it would have drawn anyway). Also, don't think you could be any more wrong about ratings. If the WWE could find a new Rock on the mic who was terrible in the ring the ratings would do much better than if they found a new Flair who was great in the ring but terrible on the mic. If anything, great mic skills are better because they are much rarer

nacho libre

rovert wrote: »

I never knew that, Taker will be keeping the same schedule until like 2013. After which it is likely he'll take on a Sting in TNA type role.

Ah he must have changed his mind then. I read in a interview some time ago he was considering wrapping up his wrestling career up in 2009 to concentrate on his real estate interests. He said Houston would be his last Wrestlemania

rovert

Bubs101 wrote: »

That's because Kennedy was much better than MVP in 2006.

Not greatly

Bubs101 wrote: »

MVP had alot further to go and Mr. Kennedy had a bad 2007 after getting injured/suspended and it was certainly his most dissapointing year in the comapny. Not because he was terrible but because that was the year he was expected to break the glass ceiling.

You are missing by point Bubs you said: "In fairness to Kennedy, he doesn't need to do any more than he does." He was never a lock to fully break it may people said he needed to improve greatly if that was to happen. He didnt and has yet to show he has potential. I see very little improved in anything Kennedy since his debut while MVP has evolved greatly.

Bubs101 wrote: »

I agree with you that if Kennedy wants to get and stay at the main event he needs to do more but at the moment the crowd are happy with what they see and Kennedy is very over.

His catchphrase is and he isnt very over as you say. If he was that would translate into other things besides live crowd reactions.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Midcarders don't sell PPV's either and it will be impossible to judge his drawing power until he does (the Royal Rumble doesn't really count because it would have drawn anyway).

He isnt a main eventer for a reason Bubs :rolleyes:. As hasnt got himself over enough and hasnt shown himself to be trusted with a push.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Also, don't think you could be any more wrong about ratings.).

I read them nearly every week and they arent subjective. So I cant be wrong about it. Would it kill you to give a reason why you think Im wrong here.

Bubs101 wrote: »

AlsoIf the WWE could find a new Rock on the mic who was terrible in the ring the ratings would do much better than if they found a new Flair who was great in the ring but terrible on the mic. If anything, great mic skills are better because they are much rarer

Kennedy doesnt have great mic skills he just impersonates Michael Buffer. Kennedy is just a jumped up Billy Gunn in many ways.

rovert

nacho libre wrote: »

Ah he must have changed his mind then. I read in a interview some time ago he was considering wrapping up his wrestling career up in 2009 to concentrate on his real estate interests. He said Houston would be his last Wrestlemania

I can tell you that was his current plan as around Wrestlemania time.

Bubs101

rovert wrote: »

Not greatly

You are missing by point Bubs you said: "In fairness to Kennedy, he doesn't need to do any more than he does." He was never a lock to fully break it may people said he needed to improve greatly if that was to happen. He didnt and has yet to show he has potential. I see very little improved in anything Kennedy since his debut while MVP has evolved greatly.

Kennedy was on his way to a title match at the Rumble at the end of 2006. He was streets ahead of MVP. I also think there's a massive case that he did break the top but got an injury at quite literally the worst time ever. Had he gotten the injury a week later he would be known as a former Champion

rovert wrote: »

His catchphrase is and he isnt very over as you say. If he was that would translate into other things besides live crowd reactions.



He isnt a main eventer for a reason Bubs :rolleyes:. As hasnt got himself over enough and hasnt shown himself to be trusted with a push.

You can't seperate his mic work and his ring work, they come as a package and as a package Kennedy is over. The average fan couldn't care less about technichal wrestling, they just want to see their favourite finisher in the ring. And as for not being trusted enough to get a push, would you not consider winning the MITB a push? I think it's natural he has to win the trust back after blowing that push

rovert wrote: »

Kennedy is just a jumped up Billy Gunn in many ways.

Wasn't it Road Dogg who was good on the mic and crap in the ring;)

rovert

Here is what I hate about replying to you, you rarely answer my posts and questions while offering little back up. Not to mention you generalise too much. You never stand by your posts. You prefer to just go a million directions which achieves little in a discussion.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Kennedy was on his way to a title match at the Rumble at the end of 2006. He was streets ahead of MVP.

And? Coherent points please.

Bubs101 wrote: »

I also think there's a massive case that he did break the top but got an injury at quite literally the worst time ever. Had he gotten the injury a week later he would be known as a former Champion;)

Do you actually read what you reply to?

Bubs101 wrote: »

You can't seperate his mic work and his ring work, they come as a package and as a package Kennedy is over. The average fan couldn't care less about technichal wrestling, they just want to see their favourite finisher in the ring.

Yet again you contradict yourself.

Kennedy's finisher hardly ranks as a decent amount of people's favourite finisher.

Bubs101 wrote: »

And as for not being trusted enough to get a push, would you not consider winning the MITB a push?

Im talking currently Bubs as you were.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Wasn't it Road Dogg who was good on the mic and crap in the ring;)

And Billy Gunn wasnt? Wat? I dont even see how you making a joke here.

Bubs101

rovert wrote: »

Here is what I hate about replying to you, you rarely answer my posts and questions while offering little back up. You never stand by your posts. You prefer to just go a million directions which achieves little in a discussion.

rovert

Bubs101 wrote: »

Not true people can read this thread and see where I am coming. Ive tried to focus the arguement and answer all your points unlike yourself.

Bubs101

rovert wrote: »

Not true people can read this thread and see where I am coming. Ive tried to focus the arguement and answer all your points unlike yourself.

Which of your points did I not answer?

rovert

Bubs101 wrote: »

Which of your points did I not answer?

See posts #43 and #46. It is how you answer it is all most like you dont actually read other people's posts. You are more interested in what you have to say then others. It was quite obvious I was referring to Kennedy's present chances of another push for example.

You still havent proven how Kennedy is adored or is very over?
You still havent show how Im wrong when it comes to ratings?
Backed up "he doesn't need to do any more than he does."
To name a few.

Bubs101

rovert wrote: »

. It was quite obvious I was referring to Kennedy's present chances of another push for example.

You still havent proven how Kennedy is adored or is very over?

Backed up "he doesn't need to do any more than he does."

I felt I covered both of those by referencing the crowd's reaction to him on Friday's Smackdown and his money in the bank win when his workrate was no different and you never mentioned that it was the current roster situation that you were reffering to and you also said that he didn't break and has yet to show his potential. That statement clearly qualified a reference to the past where he did break

rovert wrote: »

You still havent show how Im wrong when it comes to ratings?

You said you read them every week and new them. i don't read them every week so I assumed that you were right.

I like you and think you bring something to the board but you are absolutely infuriating to argue with sometimes. People don't have to reply to every comment of yours and some of your posts along the gist of "reply to post 39" come off really badly.