Glasgow Celtic Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2008/09

lisbon_lions

I have to say, after reading Murrays comments today, its clear he realises there is need for change. He put it in a fresh honest context, which is good to see:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/7661576.stm

Thats what we need, honest reports from the top...

Brewster

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Here's the response to the PQ:

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Deputy Micheál Martin): I am aware of the concern, and indeed the intimidation, that can arise from slogans and songs during and after Celtic-Rangers matches.

Since its opening in 1998, the Consulate General of Ireland in Edinburgh has maintained a wide-ranging dialogue with the Scottish Government on all relevant issues. In September, for instance, the Consul-General met with senior officials in the Scottish Government to discuss recent incidents of sectarianism. Following from these and other on-going discussions, I am assured that tangible new steps to tackle sectarianism are currently being reviewed by the Scottish Government and I am hopeful that the proposed measures will help to improve the situation. The Consulate General will continue to monitor closely developments in this regard.

A carefully worded answer..... Theres a surprise! I genuinely thought it was a wind up till I read reply to the PQ. Its saying nothing basically, and it was never going to say anything. Any sensible Irish politician is not going to persue this, do Celtic fans really believe they would? I have just being talking to a mate, goes to Parkhead about 10 times a year, pretty decent Celtic fan I would say. When I told him what had happened, he nearly crashed his car with laughter... While saying "Good on him" in reference to the FG politician, his laughter showed what a joke he thought this was!

bobbysands81

"Rangers chairman Sir David Murray has called on supporters to help rid the club of a minority of fans who persist in spouting sectarian "bile". "


It's not a minority though.

50,000 people telling an ethnic minority to go home is a majority.

bobbysands81

Brewster wrote: »

A carefully worded answer.....

As somebody who writes these replies for a living... they're always carefully worded! :D

PauloMN

lisbon_lions wrote: »

I have to say, after reading Murrays comments today, its clear he realises there is need for change. He put it in a fresh honest context, which is good to see:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/7661576.stm

Thats what we need, honest reports from the top...

Time to get drugs and fatties out of Scotland.

Not much else in there tbh.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

PauloMN

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Which one Ziggy? Or both? :eek:

monkey9

THE dad of a Rangers fan savaged by a police dog during the UEFA Cup final riots told last night how he found his son dead on his birthday.

Grieving Alex Aitkenhead, 70, discovered tragic Alexander’s body in bed when he took him a card to mark his 39th.


Alex said the convicted murderer was killed by a suspected aneurysm.



Shock . . . Alex


Police said there were no suspicious circumstances to his death at home in Shettleston, Glasgow — hours after he watched Gers’ 1-0 defeat by St Mirren in the pub.


Widower Alex said: “I got a bit of a shock — no child should go before their parent.


“He was very quiet when he came back home as he did not want to disturb me.


“He was not awake the next morning — at noon I decided to go and wake him.



Bed . . . Alexander


“I wanted to give him his birthday card but he was already dead.”


He told how Alexander collapsed last week as he was preparing for a charity run in aid of Yorkhill Hospital — and was due to have a CAT scan.


Alex said: “He was in training but collapsed last Sunday.


“He was due to go for a brain scan next Wednesday.”


Alexander shot to notoriety during violent scenes which marred May’s UEFA Cup final between Rangers and Zenit St Petersburg.


He was pictured squaring up to cops before their dog sank its teeth into his leg. We revealed how he was caged in 1987 for murdering his brother-in-law in a row over his sister. But Alex said: “He was sorting himself out.”


scottish-sun@the-sun.co.uk

Brewster

bobbysands81 wrote: »

As somebody who writes these replies for a living... they're always carefully worded! :D

Bobby, could you not have done a better job with the reply than that!! Surely it wasnt too much to ask that the Minister would give Sir David a ring and at least have a chin wag about the issue!!

I condemn all forms of unlawful behaviour. Dont get me wrong. I just feel that songs song by football fans are not exactly a priority issue! When all other issues of unlawfulness are removed from society, then by all means let target football chants! We will be getting close to a utopia world then! There are so many more important things to achieve in this country that our politicans should be concentrating on, not feckin football songs.. Be sure to pass on my views to your Minister!

OhNoYouDidn't

monkey9 wrote: »

THE dad of a Rangers fan savaged by a police dog during the UEFA Cup final riots told last night how he found his son dead on his birthday.

Grieving Alex Aitkenhead, 70, discovered tragic Alexander’s body in bed when he took him a card to mark his 39th.


Alex said the convicted murderer was killed by a suspected aneurysm.



Shock . . . Alex


Police said there were no suspicious circumstances to his death at home in Shettleston, Glasgow — hours after he watched Gers’ 1-0 defeat by St Mirren in the pub.


Widower Alex said: “I got a bit of a shock — no child should go before their parent.


“He was very quiet when he came back home as he did not want to disturb me.


“He was not awake the next morning — at noon I decided to go and wake him.



Bed . . . Alexander


“I wanted to give him his birthday card but he was already dead.”


He told how Alexander collapsed last week as he was preparing for a charity run in aid of Yorkhill Hospital — and was due to have a CAT scan.


Alex said: “He was in training but collapsed last Sunday.


“He was due to go for a brain scan next Wednesday.”


Alexander shot to notoriety during violent scenes which marred May’s UEFA Cup final between Rangers and Zenit St Petersburg.


He was pictured squaring up to cops before their dog sank its teeth into his leg. We revealed how he was caged in 1987 for murdering his brother-in-law in a row over his sister. But Alex said: “He was sorting himself out.”


scottish-sun@the-sun.co.uk

The death of this riotious, murderous, hun thug is on the Celtic thread why?

monkey9

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The death of this riotious, murderous, hun thug is on the Celtic thread why?

WEll, seeing as you's are obsessed with Rangers and their thug fans and football is never discussed here, i just thought it would be the perfect place to put it!!

Broxi_Bear_Eire

PauloMN wrote: »

I didn't mention it, but for you to insinuate that I think it's ok by saying "suppose thats ok is it" is plain out of order. You might want to talk to Eirebear, and ask him about the PMs I've sent him before. Even though I've never met the chap, I respect his views and opinions on here even if I disagree with him sometimes. I'm pretty sure he'll say likewise about me. So, just for the record, I don't think what happened to Eirebear's brother is "ok". I think it's pretty awful infact.

That being the case I will apologise to you but the fact remains If your a Gers fan over here the levels of abuse can be sickening I will qualify that by saying not normally from locals but people visiting the area though one example of a local doing it is as follows.

In the pub watching Rangers play Dundee Utd with EB's two young brothers and this guy starts mouthing off how we are a disgrace wearing Rangers tops and Nacho Novo was a wee DOB thats ok I just ignore it a while later I go out for a smoke come back in to find this moron giving my 11 year old son abuse because he is a Gers fan of course he did'nt do it at the bar where the other locals would have seen him but in the corider to the toilet needless to say he left the pub in a hurry before I got my hands on him.

PauloMN

Brewster wrote: »

I condemn all forms of unlawful behaviour. Dont get me wrong. I just feel that songs song by football fans are not exactly a priority issue! When all other issues of unlawfulness are removed from society, then by all means let target football chants! We will be getting close to a utopia world then! There are so many more important things to achieve in this country that our politicans should be concentrating on, not feckin football songs.. Be sure to pass on my views to your Minister!

You could say the same thing about people parking on double-yellows though. Hardly crime of the century, but we have plenty of tax-payers money spent on trying to deal with them. There's tons of minor offences that bleed the system of money in dealing with them.

This is an example of racism though, and I feel it warrants serious treatment. Racism is nasty business, but unfortunately it's only visible to some when it involves skin colour.

If you condemn all forms of unlawful behaviour, why do you only regard this as a football chant? I haven't heard you refer to it as racism - do you not think it is? Bear in mind that the local police are treating the singing of the song as an arrestable offence. Ask yourself why that is. A law has to be broken for someone to be arrested. It's a bit more than a football chant if you can be arrested for singing it.

eirebhoy

monkey9 wrote: »

WEll, seeing as you's are obsessed with Rangers and their thug fans and football is never discussed here, i just thought it would be the perfect place to put it!!

Hook, line and sinker OhNoYouDidn't.

A Dub in Glasgo

See what happens when we have an international week

Eirebear

Can i just ask about these constiuents and taxpayers.

Are they the same ones that made a show of their British Passports at the last OF game?
The Identity Crisis is rife in Glasgow.

And yes Paul, the clubs may be completely different entities, but when it comes to scumbag supporters they are two sides of exactly the same coin.

Both sides involve people who are completely ineducated in what they shout and sing about, and both sides include general scumbags.

Have you ever witnessed the sheer hilarity of a fully grown man walking through Glasgow, the city where he was born and bred singing "Go home British Soldiers, Go on home"?

PauloMN

Eirebear wrote: »

Can i just ask about these constiuents and taxpayers.

Are they the same ones that made a show of their British Passports at the last OF game?
The Identity Crisis is rife in Glasgow.

And yes Paul, the clubs may be completely different entities, but when it comes to scumbag supporters they are two sides of exactly the same coin.

Both sides involve people who are completely ineducated in what they shout and sing about, and both sides include general scumbags.

Have you ever witnessed the sheer hilarity of a fully grown man walking through Glasgow, the city where he was born and bred singing "Go home British Soldiers, Go on home"?

As surreal as Linfield fans singing the famine ditty in Derry. "Go home?"

We'll have to disagree on the two sides of the same coin though. Once Rangers FC start admitting these problems exist, we'll be closer to being two sides of the same coin.

We can go round and round in circles with this, and quote individual incidents 'til the cows come/go home (pun intended). Hopefully, whatever happens, we'll not be hearing that song for long.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

PauloMN wrote: »

As surreal as Linfield fans singing the famine ditty in Derry. "Go home?"

We'll have to disagree on the two sides of the same coin though. Once Rangers FC start admitting these problems exist, we'll be closer to being two sides of the same coin.

We can go round and round in circles with this, and quote individual incidents 'til the cows come/go home (pun intended). Hopefully, whatever happens, we'll not be hearing that song for long.

Paul I don't have time to look for it just now I think you will find DM stated at the AGM that we have supporters who drag the clubs name through the mud with there bile and it has to stop.
And yes Celtic have the same sort of morons as we do a guy from my area who is very high up in the Donegal Celtic Supporters Association came away with a classic quote to me that"there was no harm in some sectarianism" what an eejit

PauloMN

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Paul I don't have time to look for it just now I think you will find DM stated at the AGM that we have supporters who drag the clubs name through the mud with there bile and it has to stop.
And yes Celtic have the same sort of morons as we do a guy from my area who is very high up in the Donegal Celtic Supporters Association came away with a classic quote to me that"there was no harm in some sectarianism" what an eejit

You are probably referring to this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/7661576.stm

All people want is for them to condemn that song for what it is. Neither Murray or Bain have done so. The problem is that they're afraid they'll alienate a large section of their support if they do so. Celtic don't have that problem.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

PauloMN wrote: »

You are probably referring to this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/7661576.stm

All people want is for them to condemn that song for what it is. Neither Murray or Bain have done so. The problem is that they're afraid they'll alienate a large section of their support if they do so. Celtic don't have that problem.

Sorry to disagree Paul but I have relations who are rabid Celtic fans who only go to away games and refuse to go to Parkhead because they can't sing rebel songs there but they get away with it at away games

kraggy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

See what happens when we have an international week

I know. Imagine if there were Inter-Galactic qualifiers on right now. We'd be rightly ****ed altogether.

Far out dude...

SectionF

Is there a difference between sectarianism (par for the course in OF) and racism? The famine chant seems to me to be sectarian, but also racist.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

SectionF wrote: »

Is there a difference between sectarianism (par for the course in OF) and racism? The famine chant seems to me to be sectarian, but also racist.

Don't like the song but sectarian ??

SectionF

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Don't like the song but sectarian ??

Huh?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

SectionF wrote: »

Huh?

Simple really how is that crap song sectarian

SectionF

Sorry. Let me get this straight. You are asking me how that song is sectarian? That's certainly a curve-ball!

I suppose you could argue that it doesn't refer directly to religion, but, given the context of two bunches of thicks shouting abuse usually to do with religion at each other for several decades now, I think it would be fair to say that it is sectarian in intent. As are many of the chants hurled in the other direction.

Not that I give two hoots about that. The creepy part is the race hate and the celebration of loss of lives in the famine. If I were making an official government-level complaint about it, I certainly wouldn't cite sectarianism.

But before that I'd probably issue a travel advice for Irish people not to bother with it, complete with a map showing that Glasgow is in a foreign country and a promo for the League of Ireland.

Eirebear

There has been two lines of this song sung at Ibrox.

"The Famine's overs
Don't you go home?"

Repeat untill such time you get arrested.

Now personally i dont believe there is any place for it in football, but then again there is no place for lots of things in football.
But Racist?
Sectarian?
Celebrating death?
Where?

Brewster

PauloMN wrote: »

You could say the same thing about people parking on double-yellows though. Hardly crime of the century, but we have plenty of tax-payers money spent on trying to deal with them. There's tons of minor offences that bleed the system of money in dealing with them.

This is an example of racism though, and I feel it warrants serious treatment. Racism is nasty business, but unfortunately it's only visible to some when it involves skin colour.

If you condemn all forms of unlawful behaviour, why do you only regard this as a football chant? I haven't heard you refer to it as racism - do you not think it is? Bear in mind that the local police are treating the singing of the song as an arrestable offence. Ask yourself why that is. A law has to be broken for someone to be arrested. It's a bit more than a football chant if you can be arrested for singing it.

Paul, as for getting arrested for singing a song, as I posted on this board before I think the whole thing is a symptom of the political correct world we live in. I personally think its gone too far. Its ridiculous, getting a criminal record for singing a song?? Old Firm fans for years have revelled in winding up opposition fans and I just feel the famine song is being unfairly targeted. Certainly the issue should not be raised in Dail Eireann and i gave my reasons in an earlier post. The singing of football songs by the fans of a British football club is none of the Irish Government's business. There are organisations in place to deal with racism and sectaranism, namely the Football Associations of the member states and if that doesnt solve the problem then UEFA and FIFA. Let them deal with it. They successfully and rightly succeeded in getting the Billy Boys banned and correctly so as I said before. This issue should be taxen up with them, rather than wasting the time of civil servants and Irish elected representatives.

The famine song is no doubt unpleasant, and I agree with you it could be considered racist. My main gripe is why this getting unfairly highlighted. I of course know the answer to my own question, which of course if because its the big bad Rangers fans singing it. I ask you, do you think Scotland fans when they boo 'God Save the Queen' before an England Scotland soccer match are racist for booing it? While their are no words involved, the sentiment is surely the same? Equally are Irish soccer fans racist when they boo God Save the Queen? Are Irish soccer fans racist when the cheer the opposition everytime somebody is playing against England? See where im coming from? Where do you draw the line? I have sat in a pub in Dublin with a Rangers supporting pal during an OF game and seen him take serious viscious abuse so much so that I genuinely feared for my safety simply because I was sitting beside him? What was his crime, he cheered a goal? I have no doubt this would the same scenario in every pub in Ireland, it wasnt just that we were unfortunate where we chose to watch the game! Is this racist? Who knows? Maybe it isnt? Is it racist that members of the Rangers supporters club in Dublin receive emails telling them to go home by idiots in Ireland?! I kid you not.........

So this perceived racism happens at all levels and unless its all stamped out its unfair to soley target Rangers Football Club! Rangers have made great strides in improving the behaviour of their fans. Having friends on both sides of OF divide, i believe enables me to take a balanced view to these issues. Some Celtic fans on this board are too quick to point the finger at times.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

SectionF wrote: »

Sorry. Let me get this straight. You are asking me how that song is sectarian? That's certainly a curve-ball!

I suppose you could argue that it doesn't refer directly to religion, but, given the context of two bunches of thicks shouting abuse usually to do with religion at each other for several decades now, I think it would be fair to say that it is sectarian in intent. As are many of the chants hurled in the other direction.

Not that I give two hoots about that. The creepy part is the race hate and the celebration of loss of lives in the famine. If I were making an official government-level complaint about it, I certainly wouldn't cite sectarianism.

But before that I'd probably issue a travel advice for Irish people not to bother with it, complete with a map showing that Glasgow is in a foreign country and a promo for the League of Ireland.

You could be right about supporting a League of Ireland club but as I was brought up in Glasgow and at my age I am not going to change my club I will follow Rangers till they bury me. As for the sectarian issue Celtic chairman John Reid when he condemed the song made the valid point that people of all faiths and none died in the famine so it cant be sectarian

PauloMN

Eirebear wrote: »

There has been two lines of this song sung at Ibrox.

"The Famine's overs
Don't you go home?"

Repeat untill such time you get arrested.

Now personally i dont believe there is any place for it in football, but then again there is no place for lots of things in football.
But Racist?
Sectarian?
Celebrating death?
Where?

Do you not think it's racist today EB? You said this the other day:

FACT: One verse of this song is disgusting, racist and just plain wrong

Brewster, as you well know, nobody would be arrested for singing a song. They would be arrested for racist behaviour. I think it's unfair to play down the racist nature of this song by saying it's only a footie song. Whether you sing racist songs about the Irish at a football ground, or walk through the centre of Glasgow singing racist songs about black people it makes no difference. The place or situation is not the issue in question.

To answer the general "which bit is racist" question, here's just one clear example:

Cause they're not of our own
Well the famine is over
Why don't you go home?

And of course the age old Rangers FC fans' obsession with child abuse makes an appearance also, just to put the icing on the cake. Charming. I'm not posting the full lyrics as I just think they're in really poor taste. Google them and read them, then come on here and tell me you don't think they are racist (among other things).

As for UEFA - correct me if I'm wrong here but their actions against Rangers FC was mainly due to the continuous and persistent singing of Billy Boys at European games. Obviously we don't have the problem of Rangers FC being in Europe at the moment and I guess UEFA would hope that a country's football association would be capable of sorting out racism issues at national league level themselves without their input. Little do they know the Scottish FA and Gordon Smith.

Edit: just to put this into a bit of perspective, would it be acceptable "banter" to sing this to Jews living in the UK?

Cause they're not of our own
Well the Holocaust is over
Why don't you go home?

estebancambias

I'd say the famine song is very un PC, but not racist.

bobbysands81

SectionF wrote: »

Sorry. Let me get this straight. You are asking me how that song is sectarian? That's certainly a curve-ball!

I suppose you could argue that it doesn't refer directly to religion, but, given the context of two bunches of thicks shouting abuse usually to do with religion at each other for several decades now,

I presume you can back that up with evidence???

The only song that I can think of that could by any stretch of the imagination be classed as sectarian is an "add-on" at the end of Boys of the Old Brigade. However, I have never heard that sung at Celtic Park.

Though I have heard anti-Catholic songs being sung ad nauseum at Ibrox... yet people still peddle the myth that one is as bad as the other. Thankfully we're not but are portrayed that way by lazy journalists and people who have no brain to think for themselves.

As for the bit in bold - I got banned for something similar, I called Shels fans thick (I think) and I got a week in the can.

bobbysands81

Brewster wrote: »

Paul, as for getting arrested for singing a song, as I posted on this board before I think the whole thing is a symptom of the political correct world we live in. I personally think its gone too far. Its ridiculous, getting a criminal record for singing a song?? Old Firm fans for years have revelled in winding up opposition fans and I just feel the famine song is being unfairly targeted. Certainly the issue should not be raised in Dail Eireann and i gave my reasons in an earlier post. The singing of football songs by the fans of a British football club is none of the Irish Government's business. There are organisations in place to deal with racism and sectaranism, namely the Football Associations of the member states and if that doesnt solve the problem then UEFA and FIFA. Let them deal with it. They successfully and rightly succeeded in getting the Billy Boys banned and correctly so as I said before. This issue should be taxen up with them, rather than wasting the time of civil servants and Irish elected representatives.

The famine song is no doubt unpleasant, and I agree with you it could be considered racist. My main gripe is why this getting unfairly highlighted. I of course know the answer to my own question, which of course if because its the big bad Rangers fans singing it. I ask you, do you think Scotland fans when they boo 'God Save the Queen' before an England Scotland soccer match are racist for booing it? While their are no words involved, the sentiment is surely the same? Equally are Irish soccer fans racist when they boo God Save the Queen? Are Irish soccer fans racist when the cheer the opposition everytime somebody is playing against England? See where im coming from? Where do you draw the line? I have sat in a pub in Dublin with a Rangers supporting pal during an OF game and seen him take serious viscious abuse so much so that I genuinely feared for my safety simply because I was sitting beside him? What was his crime, he cheered a goal? I have no doubt this would the same scenario in every pub in Ireland, it wasnt just that we were unfortunate where we chose to watch the game! Is this racist? Who knows? Maybe it isnt? Is it racist that members of the Rangers supporters club in Dublin receive emails telling them to go home by idiots in Ireland?! I kid you not.........

So this perceived racism happens at all levels and unless its all stamped out its unfair to soley target Rangers Football Club! Rangers have made great strides in improving the behaviour of their fans. Having friends on both sides of OF divide, i believe enables me to take a balanced view to these issues. Some Celtic fans on this board are too quick to point the finger at times.

Of course telling an ethnic minority to go home is not racism.

I mean if we sang at Polish people that "the Celtic Tiger is over so why don't you go home", that's hardly racist is it?

Or tell blacks to go back to Africa that slavery is over, or sing to the Jews that the Holocaust is over so get out of our country.

Of course none of that is racism...

...and you're surprised that your Rangers pal got slated for cheering an anti-Irish sectarian club like Rangers FC???

SectionF

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

You could be right about supporting a League of Ireland club but as I was brought up in Glasgow and at my age I am not going to change my club

Nor should you. You support your home town club, and that, whatever about sectarianism or racism, is as it should be.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

SectionF wrote: »

Nor should you. You support your home town club, and that, whatever about sectarianism or racism, is as it should be.

Your right mate and just to put it on record I detest bigots in any shape or form but the amount of guff on here would give the impression that racism and bigotry does not exist in the republic of ireland is really strange

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I presume you can back that up with evidence???

The only song that I can think of that could by any stretch of the imagination be classed as sectarian is an "add-on" at the end of Boys of the Old Brigade. However, I have never heard that sung at Celtic Park.

Though I have heard anti-Catholic songs being sung ad nauseum at Ibrox... yet people still peddle the myth that one is as bad as the other. Thankfully we're not but are portrayed that way by lazy journalists and people who have no brain to think for themselves.

As for the bit in bold - I got banned for something similar, I called Shels fans thick (I think) and I got a week in the can.

When recently have you heard these songs being sung at Ibrox and your right vey few songs of that ilk are sung at parkhead now as I said in an earlier post they are now sung at away games

Eirebear

PauloMN wrote: »

Do you not think it's racist today EB? You said this the other day:

I still stand by the fact that one verse of thise song is disgusting.

But i have never heard this sung by Rangers fans at games. Only the two line chorus has ever been sung.

Brewster

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Of course telling an ethnic minority to go home is not racism.

I mean if we sang at Polish people that "the Celtic Tiger is over so why don't you go home", that's hardly racist is it?

Or tell blacks to go back to Africa that slavery is over, or sing to the Jews that the Holocaust is over so get out of our country.

Of course none of that is racism...

...and you're surprised that your Rangers pal got slated for cheering an anti-Irish sectarian club like Rangers FC???

So your basically implying its ok for a Rangers fan to sit in a pub supporting his team in a dignified manner and for him and his pal to run a gaunlet of hate from so called Celtic fans?? Your not suprised it happens? Like he deserves it for supporting Rangers? And you come on here complaining about racism? Are you having a laugh? Two large slices there of irony pie for you Bobby, no make that ten.

If you read my post again Bobby, you'll clearly see that I said song could be considered racist. Why to you continue to bang on jews and blacks? My point is that you cant continue to harp on about this song while denying all other forms of racism, some of which come from supporters of Celtic FC. You cant have it both ways. You either condemn it all, or its fair game for all?

This is the same anti Irish club that have a ex Republic of Ireland International on their coaching books? This is the same club that had Alan Maybury on trial? This is the same club that tried to take a youth player from Co. Louth on trial only for local thugs to threaten intimidation against his family if he went?

You and the attitude of supporters like you Bobby are the reason that so many people in Ireland have a soft spot for the Glasgow Rangers.

Brewster

PauloMn,

I would think UEFA would be still very involved about stamping out all forms of unacceptable behaviour at games. The correct banning of the Billy Boys applies to Rangers domestic games also. If the Scottish FA are not doing their job, you can be sure UEFA will step in if needs be.

I still think you are blind to certain problems with Celtic FC supporters and aspects of their behaviour that is unacceptable. This is not a Rangers FC problem which you seem to think it is, it affects every footballing nation. You only have to look at the World Cup Qualifier from our group on Sat to see this.

JimiTime

Genuine question here guys, not trying to start anything. These questions refer to the 'CLUBS' NOT the supporters of the clubs.

1. Did Celtic ever have a sectarian policy at the club? i.e. No Protestants allowed etc. If I recall this was a policy with Rangers, in relation to Catholics, until fairly recent times?

2. Is it true the great Jock Stein was a protestant?

I remember reading Alex Fergusons Bio, and in it he talks about when he was manager of St Mirren. He says a guy from Rangers calls him recommending a young player as he wasn't 'suitable' for Rangers. He then explains that this meant he was Catholic.

I don't support any teams, and believe it or not, as a Kid I loved Rangers. I remember seeing them against Leeds and thinking they were great. I put their posters on my wall etc. It was just football to me, as it should be.
However, if Celtic didn't have these policies in their history, but Rangers did, I can understand why Celtic fans feel hard done by when they are just lumped together with them. I know Celtic fans who just supported them from when they were kids etc. I know others who 'support' Celtic because of a sectarian thing. My point is, has Celtic 'the club' ever been Sectarian, as Rangers sems to have been?

PauloMN

Brewster wrote: »

I still think you are blind to certain problems with Celtic FC supporters and aspects of their behaviour that is unacceptable.

What am I blind to? Just because we're currently discussing the famine song doesn't mean I think all Celtic fans are snow white. But we're discussing the famine song. Read my posts above. I'm delighted that John Reid came out and condemned certain away fans behaviour as unacceptable - no question - when that DUP goon Campbell tried to deflect the publicity that the famine song was generating. Rangers FC, on the other hand, have not done so but merely advised their fans to refrain from singing the song. No condemnation of the actual song. That's what disguists me.

I'm not surprised though. Rangers FC as a club is steeped in anti-Catholic bigotry, whether the fans like to hear that or not. It's their history. I would applaud Murray, Bain or whoever else if they had the balls to come out and condemn this song as racist. They haven't and they won't by the looks of it. I honestly wish they would, I really do.

Brewster wrote: »

This is not a Rangers FC problem which you seem to think it is, it affects every footballing nation. You only have to look at the World Cup Qualifier from our group on Sat to see this.

The famine song is a Rangers FC problem.

As for Rangers fans getting abuse in a Donegal pub, I think that's out of order personally, but I'm not surprised by it. Just like I'd not be surprised to get dogs abuse if I walked into a pub in East Belfast wearing a Celtic jersey. Both situations are deplorable, but neither would surprise me.

These types of incidents are nothing the clubs can control however, they are social problems more than anything else. The singing of racist songs in football grounds is something the clubs can do something about.

Brewster

Thats a fair post Jimi... Jock Stein was protestant, as was Kenny Dagleish(sp?) too.

While some catholics played for Rangers throughout the years, it was kept hush hush to a degree. All changed when David Murray became chairman of Rangers when Souness became manager, they targeted players on the ability alone. Personal circumstances didnt matter. This is been the case the last 20 years. Nowadays there are plenty of Roman Catholics who support Rangers including in scotland, I know a couple personally! Religion is not an issue for them. Many legendary Rangers players were of Roman Catholic faith in recent times.

I guess it was more a symptom of society when mixed marriages etc were scorned upon until 80s or so. Different world nowadays thankfully.

Brewster

PauloMN wrote: »

What am I blind to? Just because we're currently discussing the famine song doesn't mean I think all Celtic fans are snow white.

Thats fair enough Paulo if you accept that. My point all along has been that some people seem to think that only Rangers and their fans are capable of such behaviour and as such their behaviour gets unfairly targeted. It is clearly not the case. In an ideal world none of this type of behaviour would exist, it cearly does. It will take time though for things to improve further, more of a society issue rather than a footballing one. Football is merely the vehicle to express such views as was evident in Sofia on Sat night.

PauloMN

Brewster wrote: »

PauloMN wrote: »

What am I blind to? Just because we're currently discussing the famine song doesn't mean I think all Celtic fans are snow white.

Thats fair enough Paulo if you accept that. My point all along has been that some people seem to think that only Rangers and their fans are capable of such behaviour and as such their behaviour gets unfairly targeted. It is clearly not the case. In an ideal world none of this type of behaviour would exist, it cearly does. It will take time though for things to improve further, more of a society issue rather than a footballing one. Football is merely the vehicle to express such views as was evident in Sofia on Sat night.

Hey, I know there's plenty of arsehole Celtic supporters, believe me. Last time I stayed in Jury's Inn in Glasgow after a game, I had a bunch of idiots in the room next to us singing "oh ah up de 'ra" ad nauseam 'til all hours. Did my head in.

My argument all along with this is what the clubs can and should do, and how they react in their statements. Fan behaviour outside the grounds cannot be controlled by the clubs. Maybe they can influence it, but they cannot control it. I've said already that it's not the fans singing that stuff that bothers me really, although I don't like my son being exposed to such stuff, he's too young to be hearing it tbh. My point is that the clubs should condemn this stuff when it happens, and do everything they can to eridicate it.

If Rangers FC had - from day 1 - condemned the song's contents outright, we'd not be here talking about it. The media snowballing of this is down to Rangers FC basically saying to their fans that they agree the song is banter, but that it's probably best they don't sing it. I think that's a huge mistake on the part of Rangers FC, and is imo a big step backwards in their progress to rid themselves of bigotry.

bobbysands81

JimiTime wrote: »

1. Did Celtic ever have a sectarian policy at the club? i.e. No Protestants allowed etc. If I recall this was a policy with Rangers, in relation to Catholics, until fairly recent times?

2. Is it true the great Jock Stein was a protestant?

Very easy questions to answer mate.

1. No sectarian policy ever at Celtic.

2. Yes, our greatest ever manager was a Protestant (and an Orangeman apparently).

bobbysands81

Brewster wrote: »

So your basically implying its ok for a Rangers fan to sit in a pub supporting his team in a dignified manner and for him and his pal to run a gaunlet of hate from so called Celtic fans?? Your not suprised it happens? Like he deserves it for supporting Rangers? And you come on here complaining about racism? Are you having a laugh? Two large slices there of irony pie for you Bobby, no make that ten.

What is it with Rangers and dignity eh? The two of them seem to go hand in hand.

Could you please point out where I said it was acceptable? You're jumping to conclusions that are just not there. For the record violence has no place amongst supporters of any sport and I thoroughly condemn it.

Rangers are renowned for being anti-Irish and anti-Catholic, they are renowned for being a bigotted and sectarian club who have a huge problem with their right wing fans who happen to despise anything Irish or Catholic (check out what they did to Green Pepparami, their straws and Eggs Benedict fromt heir menu). They took Alan Maybury on trial - Wow! That was decent of them. An Irishman on trial (I wonder if he was an Irish Catholic would he have got the trial?) and another Irishman born in England and who played for the 06 an their coaching staff - well that completely negates 50,000 fans singing for Irish people to go back to Ireland and that they've no right to be in Scotland.

Brewster wrote: »

If you read my post again Bobby, you'll clearly see that I said song could be considered racist. Why to you continue to bang on jews and blacks?

Yes you did, I apologise.

Brewster wrote: »

My point is that you cant continue to harp on about this song while denying all other forms of racism, some of which come from supporters of Celtic FC. You cant have it both ways. You either condemn it all, or its fair game for all?

I'd like you to point out where I was racist?

For the record you might be interested in these earlier posts a few pages back which clearly state my position...

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Racism is racism no matter what your anti-Celtic prejudice tells you. If this was happening the other way around I would be on here condemning it strongly. All forms of racism and religious sectarianism should be roundly condemned by all, not excused like you are doing.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Racism and sectarianism has no place in sport whether it's Shels fans, Linfield fans, Rangers fans or Celtic fans.

Brewster wrote: »

This is the same anti Irish club that have a ex Republic of Ireland International on their coaching books? This is the same club that had Alan Maybury on trial? This is the same club that tried to take a youth player from Co. Louth on trial only for local thugs to threaten intimidation against his family if he went?

You and the attitude of supporters like you Bobby are the reason that so many people in Ireland have a soft spot for the Glasgow Rangers.

Many Irish people might have a soft spot for Rangers but it's almost always just attention seeking. Why on earth would someone associate themselves with something that absolutely hates them?

bobbysands81

Brewster wrote: »

PauloMN wrote: »

What am I blind to? Just because we're currently discussing the famine song doesn't mean I think all Celtic fans are snow white.

Thats fair enough Paulo if you accept that. My point all along has been that some people seem to think that only Rangers and their fans are capable of such behaviour and as such their behaviour gets unfairly targeted. It is clearly not the case. In an ideal world none of this type of behaviour would exist, it cearly does. It will take time though for things to improve further, more of a society issue rather than a footballing one. Football is merely the vehicle to express such views as was evident in Sofia on Sat night.

50,000 fans singing about being up to their knees in fenian blood or telling an ethnic minority to go home is kind of unique though???

Where else does it happen?

JimiTime

Again, I've no affinity to either club. However, there does seem to be more of a bigoted edge to Rangers. Rangers encouaged sectarianism for years by their behaviour as a CLUB. Has Celtic the CLUB ever encouraged sectarian policy or behaviour?

As far as fans go, I think one has to look at the record of behaviour both in old firm derbies and away from old firm derbies. My impression is that Rangers have a worse record in the Fan department. Would I be right in saying that? Yet when Rangers were involved in those incidents in Manchester, every discussion I seen seemed to have Celtic in it somewhere. Is it a case, where people lump them together unjustly?

On a positive note, I think its great to see Rangers the club move away from its sectarian policies of the past. Maybe in time, the more infamous of their supporters will too.

Brewster

Bobby,

I cant say for certain why people in Ireland would follow Rangers its certainly not attention seeking purposes I would have thought! My pal goes to Ibrox regularly enough has never encounted one single bad word because of his nationality or Irish accent. How can you explain this? He brought pals of his over to a Rangers game who are supporters of English teams and they didnt encounter one single bad word? I personally was at UEFA cup final and the Rangers fans I met afterwards couldnt have been more accommodating or welcoming. Rangers fans may dislike Celtic fans which is perfectly normal, however to say that all Rangers fans are anti all the people in the Republic of Ireland is silly and daft! Its an urban myth which Celtic fans like to peddle. Its just not true, and to be honest it does as much harm in damaging relations between fans of both clubs as signing the famine song does!

I guess to some people Rangers are just a football club, a football club that is the most successful football in World football by all accounts! Maybe they are glory hunters!? The reason why many kids start supporting teams after all outside of having a parent who follows such a team!

My pal was in a glasgow pub once watching an OF game as he couldnt get a ticket, it had supporters of both clubs there. At the end of the match, everyone shook hands and continued happily socialising and drinking (Celtic won you'll be glad to hear!). Some of your posts on this board would have people believing that this sort of behaviour is a figment of my imagination! Its not, it happens all over Scotland and further afield. The one place is doesnt happen is the Island of Ireland! How ironic is that?

So please can you stop peddling this myth on this baord that all Rangers fans are anti Irish and anti this and anti that and anti everything that would paint them in a bad light. Its simply not true.

I fully acknowledge there are a number of Rangers fans who are anti Irish, no doubt what so ever. You are incorrect in your generalisations though. Dont generalise would be my advice.

JimiTime

Brewster wrote: »

Bobby,

I cant say for certain why people in Ireland would follow Rangers its certainly not attention seeking purposes I would have thought! My pal goes to Ibrox regularly enough has never encounted one single bad word because of his nationality or Irish accent. How can you explain this? He brought pals of his over to a Rangers game who are supporters of English teams and they didnt encounter one single bad word? I personally was at UEFA cup final and the Rangers fans I met afterwards couldnt have been more accommodating or welcoming. Rangers fans may dislike Celtic fans which is perfectly normal, however to say that all Rangers fans are anti all the people in the Republic of Ireland is silly and daft! Its an urban myth which Celtic fans like to peddle. Its just not true, and to be honest it does as much harm in damaging relations between fans of both clubs as signing the famine song does!

I guess to some people Rangers are just a football club, a football club that is the most successful football in World football by all accounts! Maybe they are glory hunters!? The reason why many kids start supporting teams after all outside of having a parent who follows such a team!

My pal was in a glasgow pub once watching an OF game as he couldnt get a ticket, it had supporters of both clubs there. At the end of the match, everyone shook hands and continued happily socialising and drinking (Celtic won you'll be glad to hear!). Some of your posts on this board would have people believing that this sort of behaviour is a figment of my imagination! Its not, it happens all over Scotland and further afield. The one place is doesnt happen is the Island of Ireland! How ironic is that?

So please can you stop peddling this myth on this baord that all Rangers fans are anti Irish and anti this and anti that and anti everything that would paint them in a bad light. Its simply not true.

I fully acknowledge there are a number of Rangers fans who are anti Irish, no doubt what so ever. You are incorrect in your generalisations though. Dont generalise would be my advice.

Great to hear. I suppose its like the element that blight England fans. Like the ones that were booing Ashley Cole on Saturday. In my ignorance, from the stories I hear, I would have thought I'd be killed if I watched a Rangers match in Glasgow and exposed my Irish accent. Any Rangers fan I've ever met, bar one, have been sound. No anti Irish sentiments etc. However, if I was to take a generic approach, half of the people I see with Celtic shirts in this country are scumbags. If I was to generalise them I could say that 'Celtic fans are scumbags'. But I know thats not the case, its just that there are muppets that think Celtic jerseys make them more Oirish etc. I think Celtic are a great club. Rangers are a great club, with a very dubious history. however, Rangers have moved in the right direction and as I said, it'd be great if everyone put the past behind and moved on.