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Glasgow Celtic Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2008/09
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Join Date:Posts: 10663
Paulo You read my post I agree with you wholeheartedly about the videos. Its pretty futile stuff. However, where we disagree is the two sides of the one coin lark... Its pretty irrelevant where the events happen, whether at stadium or not. Its pretty pathetic justification for the behaviour in those vidoes. Are you saying these people dont follow Celtic and take an active interest in the club?
I totally disagree. Whether these things occur inside or outside a stadium is completely and absolutely relevant.
Lot of the "Celtic" videos are shots from supporters' buses or outside on the street etc.. What happens out in public is a matter for the police. The videos I linked to - excepting the riots - are inside stadiums. It's the duty of the clubs to ensure that people visiting stadiums and paying them money are not subjected to racism and sectarianism.
If you think I'm trying to justify the actions of those Celtic "fans", you are very much mistaken. All through this debate I have made it clear that incidents outside the stadiums are of no concern to me. I don't care what happens outside the grounds. I don't care if people in Celtic jerseys sing "IRA" on the streets. I think they are twats, but I don't care about them. Equally Rangers fans - I couldn't care less if they sing loyalist crap out on the streets etc.. What I do care about is how the clubs react to fan behaviour within the grounds that is deemed to be racist or sectarian. My point all along has been to compare (look at the club statements) how both clubs have handled their respective incidents.I repeat my question earlier to you. Its a yes or no answer. Would you share the same views as Bobby that all Rangers fans are anti-Irish? A genuine question. Not anti Celtic now, thats a reasonable assumption to do with footballing rivalry, but anti Irish people who have little or no interest in football?
I don't see what this has to do with anything. Again it's getting away from the point I have been making that not one person has been able to contradict - which is the difference in how the clubs are handling their problem fans.
Anyway in defence of Bobby - he never said all Rangers fans are anti-Irish. He said a large %age of them are. I don't agree with everything Bobby says, and I'm sure he'll say the same about me, but I have to agree with him on that one. When you see the abuse the like of McGeady gets (and wait for poor McCarthy - the traitor
), it's hard not to think that way. 0 -
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bobbysands81 wrote: »Many lies and innacuracies there mate.
Calling Aidan MacInespie a pro-IRA song??? (Aidan was a GAA man who was murdered by the British Army walking across the border to watch a GAA game, his story is in the media again at the moment.)
Even our own National Anthem is derided in your list!
Yes 50,000 people singing to an ethnic minority to go home is so far back in the past. Listen out for it next week, you'll hear it, sure as a Shels fan you and crew probably know the words.
You mightn't like the songs but most republican songs are songs of hope, history and remembrance... not sick songs wading knee deep in someone elses blood. Amazing that you posted without checking the contents.:rolleyes:
I see no racism or anti-Protestantism there mate - perhaps you might point it out. My whole point is that the sectarianism and racism which is extremely prevalent at Rangers does not exist to anywhere the same degree at Celtic. Of course we have our idiots who are anti-Protestant, but they're just that, idiots and thankfully there are very few. I have NEVER heard an anti-Protestant comment, never mind a song in Celtic Park. You don't see our stadium rocking to discriminatory racist and sectarian songs as at Ibrox, and other away grounds in Scotland, wherever Rangers visit does - that is my entire point.
One team gets lauded by football's governing bodies, the other gets slated.
Then you have the great Shels fans on here who associate themselves with Rangers to have a go at Celtic fans... how quickly you forget, you had to play them in a foreign country as their fans couldn't be trusted to behave themselves. Amazing that you guys associate yourselves with a club that loathes you just for a childish bit of attention seeking.
First off, where the **** did you gather i'm a Shels fan!??!?:eek::mad::( I'm not.
second of all, i was simply pointing out that although some Rangers fans have issues with irish immigrants in Glasgow...i wouldnt rate this any worse than some Celtic fans being Pro-IRA. T
he songs of hope/rememberence etc that you quote are well and good, but i wouldnt deem "uh ah up the RA" as being that, would you? This was after all the lyric in a song that used to sang all the time at Celtic park (and probably still is to a lesser extent), it was also the lyric sang by a band that has played at Celtic Park, surely that can be deemed the club giving the song a seal of approval?
I am aware they longer do, but to say that Celtic never lended their support to anything other than football is simply not true imo.
I dont associate myself with Rangers, never have tbh. Couldnt really give a ****e about them.
Truth be known, when Rangers play Celtic, i'm up for Celtic more than likely, as mates of mine are Celtic fans.
I just dont like listening to people try and paint Rangers out as being the devil, in comparrison to Celtics "perfect" support.
Its nonsense, both clubs have idiotic supporters among their ranks who are more interested in religion/nationality than the football.
Just to re-iterate, i have no issues with Celtic or Rangers, and i have never even seen a Shels match
Just an OT point, this thread used to be about football all the time- with a number of Rangers fans posting regularly like Eirebear and O'Donnell and excellent Celtic fans posting (Eirebhoy for example), it was a great thread to read and never/rarely descended into petty sectarian arguments, it was a shining example of how rival fans should be able to interact with eachother on this site. This doesnt seem to be the case anymore, which in my opinion, is very sad.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 10663
Just an OT point, this thread used to be about football all the time- with a number of Rangers fans posting regularly like Eirebear and O'Donnell and excellent Celtic fans posting (Eirebhoy for example), it was a great thread to read and never/rarely descended into petty sectarian arguments, it was a shining example of how rival fans should be able to interact with eachother on this site. This doesnt seem to be the case anymore, which in my opinion, is very sad.
This coming from the guy who isn't a Celtic supporter, nor a supporter of any SPL side from what I can see and posted a pile of YouTube links to Celtic fans singing 'RA songs? Then complains about how the thread has descended into sectarian arguments? :rolleyes:
Get a grip on yourself FFS.
Brewster - fine, throw the toys out of the pram. I'm tired of discussing this anyway, and instead of you trying to counter the argument in an intelligent way, you just accuse myself and others like Bobby of saying that ALL Rangers fans are this and that. I suggest you read the posts before you accuse myself and others of believing this and that.
My original argument all along still has not been countered. It's irrelevant what me and others think of Rangers or Celtic fans. What is relevant to this discussion is how both clubs are handling the behaviour of their fans. I don't know how many times I have to say it. (Jimitime seemed to get my point and he just came into the discussion). Rangers FC are failing to admit there is even a problem. That, in a nutshell, is why I cannot have any respect for that club. My opinion of the fans is irrelevant, as is yours.
For the record, I have always had time for the input from O'Donnell and Eirebear. And I'd say there's plenty more than 1% of Rangers fans who are sound/not anti-Catholic/not anti-Irish. There.... wasn't that hard to say.
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OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »Do any other clubs threads have this sort of garbage?
Anyone on the Arsenal thread telling them to like Tottenham?
Thats the thing though. If Arsenal went away and were involved in a fracas, Spurs would never be brought up. It seems that if there is trouble with Rangers, the word Celtic for some reason is soon to follow. Its a bizarre scenario.
Brewster: From a CLUB perspective, what did you think of the Rangers response to the famine song? It certainly seems like there may be a bit of the old ways lingering around to me.
BTW, sorry for derailing your football talk to discuss this cr@p. Its been educational though, thanks for all the input.
My conclusion, and I'm trying to be fair, is that there are fans on both sides who are football fans, and some who are just sectarian bigots. However, I think Celtic fans have earned alot of respect on their travels, whereas Rangers fans have had the opposite, be it a minority or not, its not happened with Celtic in such a manner. As someone said, Celtic actually getting a reward from UEFA. Fans however, can't really be controlled by a club. However, a club can take steps to prevent and discourage cartain behaviour. Rangers, judging by their lightweight response to the famine song, have come up short in tackling the problem. All in all I thing Rangers the club, have a bit to go in tackling their old sectarian ways, and I think its unfair and unfortunate that when they get into trouble, something about Celtic is usually brought up. At least Rangers got rid of their sectarian policies, now if they just keep going in the right direction....
Thats my 2 cent. Thanks again for the education:)0 -
This coming from the guy who isn't a Celtic supporter, nor a supporter of any SPL side from what I can see and posted a pile of YouTube links to Celtic fans singing 'RA songs? Then complains about how the thread has descended into sectarian arguments? :rolleyes:
Get a grip on yourself FFS.
Brewster - fine, throw the toys out of the pram. I'm tired of discussing this anyway, and instead of you trying to counter the argument in an intelligent way, you just accuse myself and others like Bobby of saying that ALL Rangers fans are this and that. I suggest you read the posts before you accuse myself and others of believing this and that.
My original argument all along still has not been countered. It's irrelevant what me and others think of Rangers or Celtic fans. What is relevant to this discussion is how both clubs are handling the behaviour of their fans. I don't know how many times I have to say it. (Jimitime seemed to get my point and he just came into the discussion). Rangers FC are failing to admit there is even a problem. That, in a nutshell, is why I cannot have any respect for that club. My opinion of the fans is irrelevant, as is yours.
For the record, I have always had time for the input from O'Donnell and Eirebear. And I'd say there's plenty more than 1% of Rangers fans who are sound/not anti-Catholic/not anti-Irish. There.... wasn't that hard to say.
Thats fair enough Paulo. I disagree with your statement that Rangers dont even admit there is a problem with some of their fans. Apparently at their AGM last week, most of the topic was on the issue and Sir David Murray was very critical of the fans who behave in an irresponsible manner. So thats just not true. There is only so much the man can do.
All I was looking for was an acknowlegment that it is possible to meet thoroughly decent Rangers fans, you have done this so I am happy to leave it at that. My respect for you as a Celtic fan has also increased.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 10663
Thats fair enough Paulo. I disagree with your statement that Rangers dont even admit there is a problem with some of their fans. Apparently at their AGM last week, most of the topic was on the issue and Sir David Murray was very critical of the fans who behave in an irresponsible manner. So thats just not true. There is only so much the man can do.
Read what David Murray said at the AGM. There was no mention of the famine song, or the fact that it is racist, and recognised as such.
They do not admit there is a problem with the song. That is what is getting to people so much. I really don't know what more I can say on this, I've even quoted statements from both clubs to compare how they handle this stuff.Brewster wrote:Dont get a ban Paulo, that wouldnt help! I am a bit lost why I seemed to annoy you so much? Do you believe it is acceptable for Celtic fans to call a Rangers manager, who may or may not be a member of the Orange Order, a sad orange bast**d?
The OO comment annoyed me I must say. I have great friends who are Protestants, I've been to their weddings, their kids Christenings etc. in their churchs and been welcomed by their families into their homes. I have Protestant friends in the PSNI. Those folk are far removed from the OO and what that organisation stands for. They are far from being the same thing, and that's in the eyes of a Celtic fan.
I don't think it acceptable to call anyone a "sad orange bastard" at a football match. Again, I make the point about Celtic FC's view on that sort of stuff. See the statements above - they condemn it outright. All I want is to see Rangers FC do the same wrt the famine song.
I'll leave it at that, don't want to go any further on this. Roll on the football next week.....
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Read what David Murray said at the AGM. There was no mention of the famine song, or the fact that it is racist, and recognised as such.
They do not admit there is a problem with the song. That is what is getting to people so much. I really don't know what more I can say on this, I've even quoted statements from both clubs to compare how they handle this stuff.
The OO comment annoyed me I must say. I have great friends who are Protestants, I've been to their weddings, their kids Christenings etc. in their churchs and been welcomed by their families into their homes. I have Protestant friends in the PSNI. Those folk are far removed from the OO and what that organisation stands for. They are far from being the same thing, and that's in the eyes of a Celtic fan.
I don't think it acceptable to call anyone a "sad orange bastard" at a football match. Again, I make the point about Celtic FC's view on that sort of stuff. See the statements above - they condemn it outright. All I want is to see Rangers FC do the same wrt the famine song.
I'll leave it at that, don't want to go any further on this. Roll on the football next week.....
Fair enough Paulo, im quite happy to leave it at that. I understand where you are coming from and you have acknowleged there are many many decent Rangers people out there as my many examples have testified. That was my point from early doors. Hopefully you might get to meet them some day and enjoy a beer with them. A good discussion of views!0 -
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