One good thing about Republicans?

jonny72

After being glued to the news every day since 911 I've obviously consumed my fair share of American politics..

and I have to admit, I'm a bit jaded, I mean its just a two horse race between two pretty bad horses..

But the thing that has struck me the most is the Republicans and their voters.. is it just me or does anyone else notice that they by and large represent just about every ignorant selfish bigoted stereotype going?

Just look at any issue and the general Republican response..

Environment? Screw it, rather take the risk
Religion? Force it
Foreign policy? Bully them
Scandal and corruption? Ignore it
Constitution? Ignore it
International Law? Flout it
UN? screw them

Same with gay marriage..

Same with abortion..

Same with immigration..

Same with guns..

Its always the same..

Just a quick google confirms my beliefs
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/000562.html

Just imagine the most uneducated ignorant self absorbed 'screw everyone else' Irish person you can.. and they fit the profile of a Republican exactly..

What am I missing here?

Riddle101

Well the problem is that they're are only two parties in the US so there's not much to choose from, you either have to get behind one or the other, despite beliefs. I wouldn't be surprise if 50% of republicans don't really believe in their own policies and just say that stuff in order to fit in.

IN other words you have to believe in a parties policies no matter what you think otherwise you can't get in, just like the way everyone in Fianna Fail have to vote Yes for Lisbon. The Republican parties principals a lie with what you said above so everyone has to believe the same thing, where as the Liberals are the opposite which is why you always get a Republican whose a war monger or hates gay marraige

The_Minister

Firstly, your link is FAIL.
Until recently you didn't require a passport to travel to Canada, or within the US. The US is basically a CONTINENT. Most Europeans have not left Europe, doesn't make them dumb.

Secondly....
Environment? Different opinions within the party, some are very much pro-some against, some don't believe. Like the Democrats, except the Republicans prefer no solution to one that doesn't work. Democrats think that buying hybrid cars is the be and end all of enviornmentalism

Religion? Force it????????????????????????? Actually the vast, vast majority of Republicans support a secular state - during the Terry Schaivo (sp?) fiasco, when a govenor threatened to send in the troops to save her, c.80% Republicans opposed. Republicans oppose to the ban on crosses on public highways (the ones used to mark where people died in a crash).
Republicans tend to have a different view of secularism, but support secularism strongly.
But, I suppose empty, bigoted tarring of half of the US with one brush is intellectually easier.

Foreign policy? Bully them????? No, actually the majority of Republicans want to increase America's standing with the outside world. They (like Democrats, the majority of whom supported the war), got scared after 9/11, and were taken advantage of. They believe that Amerca should be a shining light in the world etc., and that a firm hand is needed with dictators etc.

Scandal and corruption? Ignore it???? wtf? Democrats have loads of scandel too, and Republicans tend to be HARDER on curruption (or the perception of) at the polls. About 1,000,000 evangelicals didn't vote for Bush the first time around, just because he had hidden the fact that he was a former alcoholic.

Constitution? Ignore it - Actually they hold the Constitution in a very high regard (too high if you ask me). Ask the average Republican what they think of the right to bear arms and you'll see.

International Law? Flout it - Can't argue with this. But international law is basically a gentleman's agreement.

UN? screw them - Because they think it is impotent, useless and corrupt. Which it is.


On the other points - they are the more conservative party, is that difficult to understand?
Doesn't mean that everyone who votes for them is some kind of gombeen.

Tbh, your attempt to smear half the country shows more ignorance then any of the God hates Fags crowd.

jonny72

The_Minister wrote: »

Firstly, your link is FAIL.
Until recently you didn't require a passport to travel to Canada, or within the US. The US is basically a CONTINENT. Most Europeans have not left Europe, doesn't make them dumb.

Its the comparison between democrats and republicans. Having traveled a lot in the past few years just about every American I meet is very anti-republican, its an observation many would agree with.

Secondly....
Environment? Different opinions within the party, some are very much pro-some against, some don't believe. Like the Democrats, except the Republicans prefer no solution to one that doesn't work. Democrats think that buying hybrid cars is the be and end all of enviornmentalism

I read a lot of news sites, yet the only site that seems to day in day out 'debate' and refute the greenhouse theory is Fox News, who are they playing to?

Religion? Force it????????????????????????? Actually the vast, vast majority of Republicans support a secular state - during the Terry Schaivo (sp?) fiasco, when a govenor threatened to send in the troops to save her, c.80% Republicans opposed. Republicans oppose to the ban on crosses on public highways (the ones used to mark where people died in a crash).
Republicans tend to have a different view of secularism, but support secularism strongly.
But, I suppose empty, bigoted tarring of half of the US with one brush is intellectually easier.

Religious influence is generally tied in with - gay marriage, abortion, teaching creationism, etc.

Foreign policy? Bully them????? No, actually the majority of Republicans want to increase America's standing with the outside world. They (like Democrats, the majority of whom supported the war), got scared after 9/11, and were taken advantage of. They believe that Amerca should be a shining light in the world etc., and that a firm hand is needed with dictators etc.

Trust me, I've read enough threads on this one to last a lifetime. Just about every pro-republican on this board has proved many times over the republican attitude to using force and power to resolve situations.

Scandal and corruption? Ignore it???? wtf? Democrats have loads of scandel too, and Republicans tend to be HARDER on curruption (or the perception of) at the polls. About 1,000,000 evangelicals didn't vote for Bush the first time around, just because he had hidden the fact that he was a former alcoholic.

This is a personal one. Just about every scandal I read or see on TV has the little R beside the name. I'm sure there are lists online.

Constitution? Ignore it - Actually they hold the Constitution in a very high regard (too high if you ask me). Ask the average Republican what they think of the right to bear arms and you'll see.

I should have said 'abuse' it, my bad. Guantanamo, etc.

International Law? Flout it - Can't argue with this. But international law is basically a gentleman's agreement.

No its basically an international law which has been agreed on by more than one party with one mindset. Just because it doesn't have nukes backing it doesn't mean it carries any less weight

UN? screw them - Because they think it is impotent, useless and corrupt. Which it is.

I'm not entirely on the UN's side, this is a deep argument, but on the ground they are doing much more good than Israel, the US and the other superpowers.

On the other points - they are the more conservative party, is that difficult to understand?
Doesn't mean that everyone who votes for them is some kind of gombeen.

Tbh, your attempt to smear half the country shows more ignorance then any of the God hates Fags crowd.

Relax a bit there, sure most of this is an observation many if not most traveling Americans I've talked to have brought up. The republicans have a backward old fashioned mindset, its stubborn and outdated. Do you want people with that kind of mindset running the country? what about the people with that mindset running Saudi Arabia?

brianthebard

Agree with minister,there are many different types of republican.You need only look at arnie and the great job he's done in probably the most democratic party aligned state in the US.

Overheal

Arnies a good rep and goes against a lot of the stereotypes. Yeah I never agree with Republicans 100% of the time and I dont agree with Democrats 100% of the time. Either side usually has good points on certain issues. Take for example alternative fuels: Yes, [the US] needs to get off foreign oil but [Dems say] Drilling is not the best solution because it doesnt do anything to help ourdependance on oil, period. I agree. On the other hand it was Dems that pushed Bio-Deisel and Ethanol: that sent the price of Corn up, set the price of food up and drove inflation. The knock-on effect was felt throughout the entire food trade. This is leading to a middle ground in the Obama plan where the idea is to start offshore drilling, but invest largely in renewable energies. Obviously thats not a perfect plan either for a million reasons but neither was Ethanol: the good news is we're moving on and continuing to process the issues.

Why do we need republicans? the same reason we need democrats.

Regarding foreign policy america will keep doing whats good for america: if that means restoring ties with sovereign nations then thats what will happen. If it means going in to remove a foreign dictator, thats what will happen. Unfortunately whats good for america is decided by the administration: theyre always doing what they think is best for the country - but not everyone will agree with them 100% of the time. Republicans simply want America to be viewed by extremists as a country that isnt afraid to cross the red tape all the time to do what needs to be done. It puts us down a peg or two in the eyes of our allies but at the end of the day thats what they have continued to be.

Manic Moran

As ever, it's not entirely all that simple. The problem is that the far right tend to get rather a disproportionate amount of press, mainly because they're so out there.

Environment? Screw it, rather take the risk

Not quite. Most Republicans have little quarrel with the concept of being environmentally friendly, but do object to self-limiting moves. The objections tend more to be based on competetive grounds: For example, the objection to Kyoto wasn't so much "We don't want to do this" as much as "Why the hell do you think we should submit ourselves to these more stringent limitations whilst countries like China have less stringent limits? Where is the benefit to placing ourselves at a competetive and financial disadvantage?" Of note, Clinton, though he signed it, didn't support the treaty either, and recommended that Congress not ratify it.

Religion? Force it

Most religious-based complaints I've seen on right-wing boards tend more to be along the lines of complaining that religions are being forced upon them. For example, mandatory "Islamic understanding" classes in school. Yes, there are some Creationist nutters out there who are probably Republicans, but they're not exactly the Party Line. Issues with religious overtones such as abortion aren't exactly the sole purveiw of the Republican party. Ireland has enough trouble of its own on that score.

Foreign policy? Bully them

To a point, yes. One of the fringe benefits of being a superpower, I guess. Democrats historically have tended to perform about the same on this score.

Scandal and corruption? Ignore it

In fairness, there's a fair bit of Democratic corruption out there as well, which is suffering the same 'sweeping under the carpet' effect. It may not be making the news in Ireland, but it's certainly happening. Granted, in the last few months we seem to be on a Republican spree, but it cycles around.

Constitution? Ignore it

I would take a pretty strong exception to that claim. Republicans (and their judicial appointees) tend to be strict constructionists, in that they take the letter of the law precisely. Democratic appointees tend to be more interpretive, in that they try to apply current-day viewpoints to the laws and Constitution. To most Republicans the Constitution is Holy Writ, and some of the loudest complaints about FISA are coming from Conservatives who are not best pleased with an apparent bypassing of the 4th.

International Law? Flout it

International law is a very grey area, given that it tends not to be written down much. What some will claim to be 'against international law', others will claim is simply 'a matter of moral opinion.' Clearly defined legislation such as "Militaries will not use expanding ammunition against combatants" is pretty strictly enforced. Something more general like "Can we attack Iraq" is indefinable as it's an issue of principle.

UN? screw them

The UN is hardly the most effective body ever invented. Some bits are worthwhile such as WHO, some are less so.

Same with gay marriage..

Same with abortion..

Well, they can't get everything right. Though as I mentioned, it's not a unique problem to the US Republican Party.

Same with immigration..

Same with guns..

What is wrong with the party's positions on immigration or firearms? I think it would be very hard to argue against the concept that as it stands the US's border is 'porous' to say the least, and the right to arms for the defense of self and others is enshrined in US law and tradition. I mean, it's even written right there in the Constitution. (See previous)

NTM

RedPlanet

Yeah, i'm sure it's all just a big coinsidence that every one of the christian nutjobs that run for election in that country are always on the Republican ticket.
Mike Huckabee anyone?

Overheal

I like Mike. He had a good sense of humour.


John F Kennedy, Democrat, has been the only Roman Catholic to be elected to Office. Anyways besides the Bushes, I don't know who you're referring to as elected religious nutcases. And as far as I know only baby bush claimed to be doing the work of Jesus.

brianthebard

Overheal wrote: »

Regarding foreign policy america will keep doing whats good for america: if that means restoring ties with sovereign nations then thats what will happen. If it means going in to remove a foreign dictator, thats what will happen. Unfortunately whats good for america is decided by the administration: theyre always doing what they think is best for the country - but not everyone will agree with them 100% of the time. Republicans simply want America to be viewed by extremists as a country that isnt afraid to cross the red tape all the time to do what needs to be done. It puts us down a peg or two in the eyes of our allies but at the end of the day thats what they have continued to be.

I was nodding my head in agreement right up to this? Are you actually advocating an interventionist foreign policy when it suits America to do so??? Its things like this that create preconceptions about America and American politics like those in the first post. The USA is not a shining beacon of light to the rest of the world.

The_Minister

brianthebard wrote: »

I was nodding my head in agreement right up to this? Are you actually advocating an interventionist foreign policy when it suits America to do so??? Its things like this that create preconceptions about America and American politics like those in the first post. The USA is not a shining beacon of light to the rest of the world.

Tbh, I'm quite happy that they intervened in WWI and WWII.
And the Marshall plan was nice too.

Overheal

brianthebard wrote: »

I was nodding my head in agreement right up to this? Are you actually advocating an interventionist foreign policy when it suits America to do so??? Its things like this that create preconceptions about America and American politics like those in the first post. The USA is not a shining beacon of light to the rest of the world.

Im not advocating it and I was against the war in Iraq, primarily because of the damage to our foreign relations and the risk of life to our volunteer military. I'm pretty much just reading back to you what the discussion has been in the mainstream US media, and of what I know to be true.

But like I was saying in that paragraph the Bush Administration decreed it was of greater value to the country to remove Saddam from power and introduce Democracy to the sovereign nation of Iraq. The republican party (in control of the House) backed him on it. Meaning he had the deciding half of the house working for him and had free reign to pass whatever bills the party deemed fit. Which in a large part included major increases to military spending. When the General Election happened last year and the Democrats won back the house the Bush Administration lost control of the house and chose to Veto dem-approved bills which called for a timeline of withdrawal. This happened consistently for the better part of a year until the house was compelled to approve more money for the Iraq effort in the interest of supporting the troops, which were begining to suffer under the indecision in DC.

In hindsight the US is down a peg or two on the international scene, the economy has taken hits. On the other hand Saddam is gone (Osamas still on the loose) and The United States has an influence in the Middle East, which might be the best thing stalling Iran's plans for genocide.

molloyjh

jonny72 wrote: »

After being glued to the news every day since 911 I've obviously consumed my fair share of American politics..

and I have to admit, I'm a bit jaded, I mean its just a two horse race between two pretty bad horses..

But the thing that has struck me the most is the Republicans and their voters.. is it just me or does anyone else notice that they by and large represent just about every ignorant selfish bigoted stereotype going?

Just look at any issue and the general Republican response..

Environment? Screw it, rather take the risk
Religion? Force it
Foreign policy? Bully them
Scandal and corruption? Ignore it
Constitution? Ignore it
International Law? Flout it
UN? screw them

Same with gay marriage..

Same with abortion..

Same with immigration..

Same with guns..

Its always the same..

Just a quick google confirms my beliefs
http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/000562.html

Just imagine the most uneducated ignorant self absorbed 'screw everyone else' Irish person you can.. and they fit the profile of a Republican exactly..

What am I missing here?

I'm no fan of the Republicans but you are taking a very extreme view of an extreme section of the Republican party.

As for The Ministers comment re the UN being impotent this is one that gets my goat every time. If you look at the stats re vetos used by the big 5 on the Security Council for example you'll see that the US has, in the last 40 years, used their veto more times than the other 4 combined. Russia went a bit mad for the first 10 years but after that it was mainly the US. Since 1966 the US has used their veto 85 times. The remaining 4 have used a total of 65 vetos.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/data/vetotab.htm

Manic Moran

Are you actually advocating an interventionist foreign policy when it suits America to do so??? Its things like this that create preconceptions about America and American politics like those in the first post. The USA is not a shining beacon of light to the rest of the world.

Speaking about the US generally, not specifically Republican administrations, I don't think it's a case of "If it's good for us, to hell with the rest of the world" as much as "If it's good for us, it's probably good for our allies and friends as well." Except for the most isolationist crowd, most USians believe that stable and prosperous trading partners are in the US's best interest. The Cold War and the aforementioned Marshall Plan is an excellent example of this. If a country doesn't rock any boats, it's probably generally left alone by the US.

Looking more to the Republicans specifically, they tend to be a little more self-reliant. This applies to their domestic policies as well, which favour individual responsibility over communal responsibility. To this end, on the international slate, the Republicans like to give the impression of "If you're our friend, we'll be your best friend, and if you're our enemy, we'll stomp you down like an ant." This implies not hanging around and deliberating things in international comittee.

NTM

Overheal

Manic Moran wrote: »

Looking more to the Republicans specifically, they tend to be a little more self-reliant. This applies to their domestic policies as well, which favour individual responsibility over communal responsibility.

Thats getting into the school of Libertarian thought tbh. Its present on all sides of the spectrum. It often clashes with Conservatism, another school of thought often associated with Republicans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

CPT. SURF

The_Minister wrote: »

Religion? Force it????????????????????????? Actually the vast, vast majority of Republicans support a secular state - during the Terry Schaivo (sp?) fiasco, when a govenor threatened to send in the troops to save her, c.80% Republicans opposed. Republicans oppose to the ban on crosses on public highways (the ones used to mark where people died in a crash).
Republicans tend to have a different view of secularism, but support secularism strongly.
But, I suppose empty, bigoted tarring of half of the US with one brush is intellectually easier.

This is so off-base. Terry Schiavo had been on life-support for the majority of the last twenty years. Reduced to a vegetable, her brain was mush. Scientifically alive but never will move, talk, or think again. Her husband had been petitioning in the state of Florida for years to have the right to let his wife pass in peace with some dignity.

The REPUBLICAN congress in Tallahassee blocked his motion for years and years. And when Jeb Bush (a Republican I know) basically allowed the virtually dead woman to pass on he was vilified by the Christian right and the Florida Republican party. They still hold this grudge by the way.

I live in Florida. Get your s**t straight