The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

Alun

I was overcharged too, or rather they double charged me, and got it sorted out literally in a couple of weeks.

leon8v

Alun wrote: »

I was overcharged too, or rather they double charged me, and got it sorted out literally in a couple of weeks.

I was also overcharged by about €90. Rang up asked for supervisor, told him it was not acceptable and if it wasnt sorted straight away, I would be cancelling the direct debit and throwing the tag in the bin. It was sorted within a week.
Also had some guy on their unhelpful phoneline tell me that I was legally obliged to pay a fine if it came to it, so I asked him what date I signed for the fine notice, he obviously couldnt tell me as its not sent by registered post so he then backed down.
Surely the whole thing has to be near scrapping at this stage!
When will the annual report be released for 2008?

Alun

leon8v wrote: »

I was also overcharged by about €90. Rang up asked for supervisor, told him it was not acceptable and if it wasnt sorted straight away, I would be cancelling the direct debit and throwing the tag in the bin. It was sorted within a week.

I achieved exactly the same result by being polite and patient and without getting irritated or threatening to the person on the other end of the phone, who has got nothing to do with the mess their systems are in. Do unto others etc. Karma and all that.

leon8v

Alun wrote: »

I achieved exactly the same result by being polite and patient and without getting irritated or threatening to the person on the other end of the phone, who has got nothing to do with the mess their systems are in. Do unto others etc. Karma and all that.

I was polite, patient and didnt get irritated for probably the first 30 or so times I have been onto them. When you are dealing with them on an almost daily basis its hard to remain patient with all of their mistakes.
I told the guy on the phone that I wasnt blaming him personally but at the same time I wanted it sorted.

I wouldnt really find them sorting the problem "literally in a couple of weeks" as being acceptable either.

qwert2

I got a letter in the post today from eflow's solicitors asking me to pay a fine of 147 euros. I remember paying the toll fee of 3 Euro online. However I got a number of letters since from eflow reminding me to pay it and charging me 40 euro for late payment. When I phoned them and told them I did pay it online thay said that's grand, once I can provide proof of payment. Anyway I checked my bank statements today and can't find evidence of the 3 euro payment for the toll. I'm ****ed, looks like I'll have to pay the 147 :mad:

Carawaystick

Well if you have one er, witness who can remember you paying, that's one more witness more than they have.

remember only a court can fine you.

ART6

If you paid it on line, there should be a record of it hidden in the dark recesses of your computer I would expect. Computers have, as Gary Glitter discovered, a habit of recording everything in hidden files;)

leon8v

I am just looking at one of the online payment receipts from the huge file of Eflow crap i have accumulated since it started. There is a reference number and a payment number, an amount and a date and the last 4 digits of a credit card.
There is no mention of a reg number or a time of travel or indeed the original toll notice. Only for I stapled it to the toll notice I would have no idea which one it relates to.
If you were able to produce " a receipt" from that time, I know the reference number when checked would show a different reg number when investigated but surely a good solicitor would be able to argue the amount of mistakes their system makes means it cant be relied on to be completely accurate?
Not suggesting this but rather just throwing it out there for discussion!

Stky10

ART6 wrote: »

If you paid it on line, there should be a record of it hidden in the dark recesses of your computer I would expect. Computers have, as Gary Glitter discovered, a habit of recording everything in hidden files;)

Gary Glitters "special" files weren't all that hidden according to reports based on the number of files he had.

@qwert2 you can try searching your browser history, but its probably been deleted by now, and would only show up the page link rather than its contents.

Run_to_da_hills

It will be interesting to see if the ANPR's will recognize snow covered registration plates.

absurdtrivia

Browsers don't cache secure web pages like those used on payment sites. So there wont be any record.

Tigger

towger wrote: »

They are really on the ball ...... in many cases they send it out BEFORE you have even driven on the M50 ..... they are psychic !:p

yup got one this morning apparemntly i was on the m50 at 745 on thursday last

co0nsidering the waether etc i did well to get to work in mayo for 9

i rang themn told them o stop being silly and the guy said he'd send me a miskate thingy

i think thats all they do

its 1850 something then 4-4-3 to get a real person

Our man in Havana

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if the ANPR's will recognize snow covered registration plates.

Indeed!

Seth Brundle

Tigger wrote: »

yup got one this morning apparemntly i was on the m50 at 745 on thursday last

co0nsidering the waether etc i did well to get to work in mayo for 9

i rang themn told them o stop being silly and the guy said he'd send me a miskate thingy

i think thats all they do

its 1850 something then 4-4-3 to get a real person

You should have told him what he could do with it. It is not your responsibility to prove your weren't there - don't bother filling it in!

Our man in Havana

People seem so afraid of those notices. No need to be afraid. Ignore them.

They make good firelighters in this cold weather.

Tigger

kbannon wrote: »

You should have told him what he could do with it. It is not your responsibility to prove your weren't there - don't bother filling it in!

no he said it was a decleration that they made a mistake

but yes the system is flawed

Seth Brundle

Fair enough but I still wouldn't have even bothered ringing them!

The tax man

The tax man wrote: »

I let a payment on the fathers car slip last week by a few days before a copped I never paid the damn thing. Just went through the normal page,as if paying on time, have a copy of the payment details(for when the fun and games begin) and then the letter arrived after another 4-5 days. They're only looking for the original €6,no mention of late payment penalty whatsoever. In the letter it states"To allow motorists to become familiar with the payment process for paying M50 tolls,it has been decided to waive the penalty charge of €3 per unpaid toll for an introductory period to 30th November 2008"

The above little incident just landed me with two solicitors letters through the door. :D

Let's see,I paid for 2 passes,a few days(3) late mind you. First notice came through the door,ignored it cause I've paid already and all this before Nov 30th. Couple of weeks later the €43 one lands in the hall,at this stage I'm getting on the phone to sort this out. Ring them,get through quick enough,tell bloke on phone the story,and he stops me from finishing what I had to say and just tells me he's cancelling it there and then,journey made before 30th blah blah blah......CANCEL WHATThere shouldn't BE anything to cancel. I wanted to give him my payment ref number but he didn't want it,no need he said,everything is sorted now and he hung up.

I can't wait to ring the solicitors on Monday morning. Have my check list made...
Saved eFlow payment screen with date and amount paid. √
Bank statement with €6 payment made to eFlow dated same as web page.√
Original statement from eFlow stating they'll drop late payment fines till Nov30th. √
I'll let them prove I never rang eFlow and was never told that everything was cancelled and sorted and no need to worry about the notice I received.


The best part of this letter,
"We would urge you to take the contents of this Toll Violation Notice extremely seriously".

First time in years I'm actually looking forward to Monday morning.:D:D

Our man in Havana

Who are their solicitors as a matter of interest? I has my suspicions as to who they may be. PM if you wish.

The tax man

PM sent to you Bond.

Bondgirl83

Taxman, in a similar situation as yourself... forgot to pay before 8pm. Remembered next day, went online chose pay a toll option, entered reg number and was charged just €3. All other times had paid on time and had still recieved letters saying I hadn't so wasn't at all surprised when got letter saying I hadn't paid €3 toll and needed to pay €6. Assumed, stupidly perhaps but I DO have a life and a job so can't spend my days worrying whether eflows system is correct or not, that because the system had taken my reg and payment that i could ignore the letter, surely this system should accurately tell me through receiving my reg number what I owe.... received a threatening solicitors letter last week stating that I owed €143 and if I didn't pay a judgement would be made against me and my name published in Stubbs Gazette. I paid the toll in good faith and would have happily paid the late fee had it charged me for it... I'm actually quite upset about it as I really cannot afford €143 and don't believe the payment system is clear and in light of the fact that on previous occasions they have treated me so incompetently how can they send these intimidating solicitors letters?????
And to add to the annoyance of it all I contacted eflow concerned that I might have other outstanding payments resulting in more solicitors letters and was told that my account was compeltely clear????!!!!!

Our man in Havana

Are these solicitors letters signed? Are they computer generated with no signature?

received a threatening solicitors letter last week stating that I owed €143 and if I didn't pay a judgement would be made against me and my name published in Stubbs Gazette.

They must take you court and then you have to loose before they can get a judgement against you. They can only put your name in stubbs if they get the judgement.
That is pure intimidation and a solicitor should know better. A complaint to the law society is in order.

The tax man

Bond-007 wrote: »

Are these solicitors letters signed? Are they computer generated with no signature?

Fairly computer generated looking on headed paper.
Signature is just the two surnames of the the solicitors copied.
Sent by normal post not even registered mail.

@Bondgirl83 Was the date of your toll you let slip before the end of Nov '08?

Our man in Havana

Eflow have hired these solicitors at a fixed fee to send out the letters.

Are they letters actually posted in Kerry?

Bondgirl83

Taxman and Bond007 thanks for the replies. As Taxman says no signature on the bottom of letter just the 2 surnames of the firm. Postage is paid so no indication of location of posting. Date of passage was mid Nov.
Taxman would be interested in how you get on with them?
This couldn't stand up in court though could it??

leon8v

Would be very curious to see one of these go to court. I doubt it would have any chance.
Slighty off the topic of the fines, I emailed the RSA looking for figures for the first 3 months of operation, I was told that they had received lots of requests for this but were not releasing it until the first year was up. The figures must be bad!!!

Our man in Havana

You need to make a freedom of information request in writing via snail mail for that info. It will cost you €15.

MorrisDunn

Bondgirl83 wrote: »

Taxman and Bond007 thanks for the replies. As Taxman says no signature on the bottom of letter just the 2 surnames of the firm. Postage is paid so no indication of location of posting. Date of passage was mid Nov.
Taxman would be interested in how you get on with them?
This couldn't stand up in court though could it??

Let me explain how these "solicitors letters" work.

I used to work in debt collection for a well known firm in Dublin. What eflow have done is they have paid these solicitors a fee to use their letterhead and churn out automated letters. The solicitors supply the wording and eflow print off the letters back at eflow central aong with the other notices. The solicitors letter is just another printer in the eflow office.

The named solicitors have never had your details. The phone number on the letter will be a number belonging to eflow. It is a basic scare tactic. Thing is it works in 90% of cases.

Seth Brundle

The solicitors name is on the letter regardless and if the letter is intimidatory then they surely are responsible!

Our man in Havana

kbannon wrote: »

The solicitors name is on the letter regardless and if the letter is intimidatory then they surely are responsible!

Yes indeed. A complaint to the law society would be needed to get anywhere.

It does seem that the letter is very badly drafted and is thus intimidatory in nature.

I still reckon none of these cases will ever see court.

leon8v

Bond-007 wrote: »

You need to make a freedom of information request in writing via snail mail for that info. It will cost you €15.

I asked them this question and they told me they wouldnt be releasing the first 1/4 figures!!

Our man in Havana

Did you do an actual FOI request and send the €15?

niceirishfella

Hi,

I thought I'd share with you the sheer mess that eflow are and the hassles I'm having with them.
I have been misbilled constantly with them, had to call them up and tell them that i paid tolls, and then they'd write to me apologizing saying that the matter is now closed etc.

But today, I got a solicitors letter from a solicitors based in kerry acting on behalf of eflow which is threatening legal action blah blah blah........

I've checked my own credit card records, and this toll was paid, like all the others.

EFlow are a mess, I've called them and they say that they can't deal with it now that its with their solictors, and when i called them and complained, well.........the snotty tones of them is pure classic...........you want to hear them.

So, here I'am - with a solicitors letter from a bunch of faceless insincere legal eagles in Kerry sneering down the phone to me to pay up a staggering €143 or they'll burn my house down (well, you know what i mean:rolleyes:) and eflow who will not look into the case.

Anyone else have these stories about eflow?


Thanks

Drummerboy08

Burn all the remaining toll charges you owe, and every time you drive under the gantry from now on, give the camera the bird as you pass by...:D

niceirishfella

Bond-007 wrote: »

Who are their solicitors as a matter of interest? I has my suspicions as to who they may be. PM if you wish.

The Solicitors are Pierse and Fitzgibbon, Market Street, Listowel , Kerry.

www.pierfitz.ie


The people on the phones are useless and argumentative. Dreadfull service.

leon8v

Bond-007 wrote: »

Did you do an actual FOI request and send the €15?

I asked what I had to do under the FOI and how I could go about getting them and was told they had many requests for the same but would only be releasing the figures after the full year (or something to that effect but basically a no!!)

Our man in Havana

leon8v wrote: »

I asked what I had to do under the FOI and how I could go about getting them and was told they had many requests for the same but would only be releasing the figures after the full year (or something to that effect but basically a no!!)

They can't do that.

If you FOI them and pay the appropriate fee they must release the information. If they refuse you can appeal to the information commissioner. The information release is in the public interest.

Our man in Havana

niceirishfella wrote: »

The Solicitors are Pierse and Fitzgibbon, Market Street, Listowel , Kerry.

www.pierfitz.ie


The people on the phones are useless and argumentative. Dreadfull service.

Challenge them to issue proceedings within 10 days or you consider the matter closed.

Are you dealing with the actual solicitors in Kerry or is it some other part of the eflow machine?

niceirishfella

Bond-007 wrote: »

Challenge them to issue proceedings within 10 days or you consider the matter closed.

Are you dealing with the actual solicitors in Kerry or is it some other part of the eflow machine?

I tried to deal with eflow on it, but they saw because its now in the hands of their debt collectors/agents, they cannot and will not deal with it. another example of how useless and crap they are at their job.
I have contacted the solictors and told them as far as i'm concerend the matter is closed.
But, its the whole system they have, its a mess.
Bond007 - are you from a legal background as advising me to instruct them to issue proceedings may not be the right course of action? You need to be carefull what you advise on this public forum.

Our man in Havana

If you don't owe the money, you don't owe the money.

Telling them to issue is a way of telling them to either put up or shut up. Basically a way to get them off your back. I stand by what I say.

If they are anyway confident in their claim they will issue proceedings. I doubt they will ever issue against anyone.

thebman

Well they'll never prosecute anyone, I mean it wouldn't pay them. Imagine the solicitors fees.

I think the only thing that would make them do it is to make an example of someone if not paying the toll became widespread.

I still belive people should boycott this shameful system and just refuse to pay the tolls but use the bridge. We've paid for it ten times over and this system simply does not work.

I've never had to use it thank god.

The tax man

Well I rang those solicitors this morning,ready for a good argument over the phone,but it didn't happen. First off the they just wanted the ref no. from the letter,so gave it to them and was told this case was highlighted for some reason. and that someone would ring me back....still waiting for the call.:rolleyes:
Anyway told them my payment number from eFlow transaction screen and that I have a bank statement showing withdrawal for same and that all this happened before Nov 30th etc etc.
Going to ring them back tomorrow and get some sort of answer from them.

Seth Brundle

Don't waste your time! Eflow is a scam. Evidently, they steal your time and patience!

niceirishfella

kbannon wrote: »

Don't waste your time! Eflow is a scam. Evidently, they steal your time and patience!

Get this, when i spoke to eflow yesterday and asked for the name and contact details of the GM/CEO or whatever headhoncho @ eflow, i was told they could not tell me as they don't give out that information??? :rolleyes:

Drummerboy08

niceirishfella wrote: »

Get this, when i spoke to eflow yesterday and asked for the name and contact details of the GM/CEO or whatever headhoncho @ eflow, i was told they could not tell me as they don't give out that information??? :rolleyes:

I wouldnt give it out either being honest.. Just dont pay any more tolls until you get it sorted. Worked a treat for me...

peasant

Did any of you ever bill them back?

Like for telephone cost, stamps, registered post, time lost?

I would ...but then I don't have to use the bridge

Drummerboy08

peasant wrote: »

Did any of you ever bill them back?

Like for telephone cost, stamps, registered post, time lost?

I would ...but then I don't have to use the bridge

I've never billed them back - but in work, because we have 3,000 cars on the road at any one time, we got a load of toll charges in when this started. It turned out that many tolls had been paid twice, or three times in some cases - Us, the driver, and the drivers company.

We have been told not to pay any tolls, so we just keep a record of what tolls come in - STR numbers, Reg Number, and time passed thru. This list then gets emailed to E flow every months, and those tolls have been written off AFAIK.

niceirishfella

Registered post? Shure they don't even bother with registering this post......another flaw in their system.

Our man in Havana

niceirishfella wrote: »

Registered post? Shure they don't even bother with registering this post......another flaw in their system.

Look at the figures, 54 cent for regular post vs €5.30 for registered post. Eflow are not going to increase their postage costs 10 fold overnight. It would eat into their profits. Can't have that now.

The failure to send the notices by registered post will be factor if they were ever to venture into court against a motorist.

niceirishfella

Bond-007 wrote: »

The failure to send the notices by registered post will be factor if they were ever to venture into court against a motorist.

Agreed. A "Return to sender" rubber stamp would be good next time you see one of their envelopes arrive.;)

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Return-To-Sender-Stamp-STOP-JUNK-MAIL-DEAD-LOOK_W0QQitemZ270342256855QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Office_Office_Supplies_Stationery_ET?hash=item270342256855&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318