The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

Sizzler

boarddotie wrote: »

Eeek, I still owe €146 to the solicitors and I am very near to paying. I have held out this long but Im getting kinda scared...just a bit of background to my situation:



I have sent them a letter like I was advised to do with all my details, receipts and the sequence of communications that I have had with both e-flow and the solicitors. I have told them I made a genuine mistake when originally paying for my trips but that when i contacted e-flow they said it was sorted. I got a letter back saying I still owe one €146 regardless (I got the other €146 cancelled out) and the whole case still stands.

I know people are saying I will never go to court but it would be just my luck that it would! I am studying abroad for the Summer and dont want to have to come home early to face a court session. My Ma is up the walls as the letters go to my home hom first (and of course she opens them :rolleyes:) and says she will ring them up and pay it just to get it sorted and I am beginning to feel that way now too...

Simple - Call Sean O'Neill (The NRA's PRO) Explain your situation and I would be very surprised if its not sorted by Monday.

http://www.nra.ie/AboutUs/ContactInformation/#d.en.2330

Carawaystick

boarddotie wrote: »

I know people are saying I will never go to court but it would be just my luck that it would! I am studying abroad for the Summer and dont want to have to come home early to face a court session. My Ma is up the walls as the letters go to my home hom first (and of course she opens them :rolleyes:) and says she will ring them up and pay it just to get it sorted and I am beginning to feel that way now too...

If you are going to live in another country, just let the NRA know your new address! and don't bother telling them when you move back here.

tell yer ma that opening letters not addressed to her is a criminal offence not a civil offence like non-payment of the toll....

L1011

Bond-007 wrote: »

I don't think that will fix anything. The problem is with the toll operator.

Depends how much is outsourced - these outsourcing firms can sometimes cover everything up to billing and some IT systems. The Abtran crowd seem to offer some of those services as it happens. But if eFlow are doing that I doubt they *can* run parallel systems though.

Carawaystick

remember Eflow is not a company, "Eflow Barrier free tolling" is only a business name of the NRA. Just because they want you to ring people in the north doesn't mean you need to deal with them. ring the NRA. look up he contact details for them on their website.

this is probably the link you need
http://www.nra.ie/AboutUs/CustomerService/

but there are also:
a customer charter
http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/NRAPolicyDocuments/file,11159,en.pdf

and a customer action plan
http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/NRAPolicyDocuments/file,11160,en.pdf

Lenny

HI,
I'd like ot add to this also.
I paid my toll late (1 day) paid the 6euro..
anyways thought everything was grand ecept I didn't get my post and it had been put down somewere and nobody told me. and I saw all the fines then(for two trips)
andway rang them up, got talking to a lad called "johnny" with an english accent
said I got the letters, he said there was an error on the system and I had to pay a further 6 euro.
grand I thought, btw i had also appeaded the fine by accdient on the site before I rang him. then last week i get a letter saying my appeal had been declined.
rang again, got talking to a girl told her the suitation again, that I had paid 6euro twice now... as I was ringing on someone's behalf I was not able to set up an account with them, if the registered owner did they would clear the fines.(she put a note on the system) great I thought. this was last wednesday i was talking to them. told the gf about it to ring them and she only got around to it today. rings them up and they say they can't help her as she is being prosaccuted by there solictors it was sent out last wednesday!

gf rings the solictors directly and the girl tells them they have not received anyhting yet but it will be investigated when they do..
So assuming she is gonna get two €146 fines in post
where do I stand now?
I only have receipt of one payment on the cc(the second one)
this is going on months now at this stage(more than 2)
help appreacted

Telgere

Finally after 6 or so months got back the 200€ they overcharged us for two trips in the same day. After 20 odd calls faxing cc statements etc. Joke of an operation they have running.

DrumSteve

was on the phone to them there. apparently i have to pay 91€ cos there system is a joke. i used the toll three times and paid nine euro. but on there system they only have me down as using it twice and the €9 payment never actually went towards anything because no €9 trip had been made! haha ****in shambles of an organisation i told the girl there was no way in hell i was payin that amount of money they can get the boat.

why should i have to pay for their shambles of a system? :mad:

L1011

Carawaystick wrote: »

remember Eflow is not a company, "Eflow Barrier free tolling" is only a business name of the NRA. Just because they want you to ring people in the north doesn't mean you need to deal with them. ring the NRA. look up he contact details for them on their website.

this is probably the link you need
http://www.nra.ie/AboutUs/CustomerService/

but there are also:
a customer charter
http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/NRAPolicyDocuments/file,11159,en.pdf

and a customer action plan
http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/NRAPolicyDocuments/file,11160,en.pdf

Its run by a firm called Bet Eire Flow, not the NRA themselves.

Our man in Havana

Sounds like a bookies.

*becky*

does anyone know if any cases have went to court yet??

Our man in Havana

None yet.

I am sure that the NRA will be crowing from the rooftops when they win an undefended case. A big spread in the Indo is expected. They will be claiming it as an epic win.
It would be important in the propaganda war to keep the peasantry compliant.

Sizzler

MYOB wrote: »

Its run by a firm called Bet Eire Flow, not the NRA themselves.

Correct, but the point of the NRA's details being posted on here are because ultimately they are the organ grinder in this whole farce and if enough people complain to them about this shoddy outfit they will have to take action....as they appear to have done by switching some of their business around.

whiterebel

And here I go again........

Have had a tag from Fermoy almost 12 months. After receiving mountains of fines from eFlaw, they eventually realised, apologised and everything was ok. Changed the car in February, I correctly notified changes to Direct Route/Intolligent and now eFlaw are back after me again for 2 trips up and back the M50 in the new car. One is disputed, but the other, in their wisdom, they have said is a valid transaction and lumped it up to €47, despite me giving them the account and tag numbers. Beauty of it all, is that the photographs they have included? You can see the tag!!!!! I have written to them today, told them I'd be more than happy to see them in court, and to be prepared to pay for my time and expenses writing, emailing, answering their correspondence etc.

Jesus, how one company can be so incompetent defies belief.

Carawaystick

Telgere wrote: »

Finally after 6 or so months got back the 200€ they overcharged us for two trips in the same day. After 20 odd calls faxing cc statements etc. Joke of an operation they have running.

if you're a private (not a commercial) driver, you can make a small claim against them online.

regarding beteire flow, If you got your baggage damaged on a ryanair flight, would you blame the handling agent or Ryanair?
you have a contract with the nra for using the westlink, and the advertised price for a car is EUR3. This is all you owe, and you owe it to the nra.

Our man in Havana

I am sure that their penalty charges are unlawful.
It will be interesting to see how a properly defended case goes in court.

rustbucket

Hey

Just got a notification from E-flows solicitors about an unpaid fine, I now owe them €152.

I have a pay monthly eflow tag on my car and have always paid by direct debit. I decided to take a trip north in my old mini (no tag) and forgot about the toll.

I have bought a house and the last 4 months has been a nightmare and I genuiniely forgot to pay the inital toll and fine. I even asked them at one stage to transfer the fine to my Tag account whihc they said they could not do.

I have rung the solicitors to explain the situation as well as Eflow and both say they cannot reduce the amount and it has to be paid within 7 days.

Bottom line is I didnt understand the post payment thing initially as I normally pay by direct debit and I should have paid the €40 fine when I got it but I genuinely forgot.

Does the fact that I always pay on my account stand for nothing? I am more than happy to pay the €40 fine but feel €152 for 1 trip unpaid is grossly excessive?

Anyone got any suggestions. certainly wont be taking my old car out for a spin anytime soon

boarddotie

rustbucket wrote: »

Hey

Just got a notification from E-flows solicitors about an unpaid fine, I now owe them €152.

I have a pay monthly eflow tag on my car and have always paid by direct debit. I decided to take a trip north in my old mini (no tag) and forgot about the toll.

I have bought a house and the last 4 months has been a nightmare and I genuiniely forgot to pay the inital toll and fine. I even asked them at one stage to transfer the fine to my Tag account whihc they said they could not do.

I have rung the solicitors to explain the situation as well as Eflow and both say they cannot reduce the amount and it has to be paid within 7 days.

Bottom line is I didnt understand the post payment thing initially as I normally pay by direct debit and I should have paid the €40 fine when I got it but I genuinely forgot.

Does the fact that I always pay on my account stand for nothing? I am more than happy to pay the €40 fine but feel €152 for 1 trip unpaid is grossly excessive?

Anyone got any suggestions. certainly wont be taking my old car out for a spin anytime soon

Just pay it. I was in a similar situation a while back. Some background:

boarddotie wrote: »

Eeek, I still owe €146 to the solicitors and I am very near to paying. I have held out this long but Im getting kinda scared...just a bit of background to my situation:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59439241#post59439241

I have sent them a letter like I was advised to do with all my details, receipts and the sequence of communications that I have had with both e-flow and the solicitors. I have told them I made a genuine mistake when originally paying for my trips but that when i contacted e-flow they said it was sorted. I got a letter back saying I still owe one €146 regardless (I got the other €146 cancelled out) and the whole case still stands.

I know people are saying I will never go to court but it would be just my luck that it would! I am studying abroad for the Summer and dont want to have to come home early to face a court session. My Ma is up the walls as the letters go to my home hom first (and of course she opens them :rolleyes:) and says she will ring them up and pay it just to get it sorted and I am beginning to feel that way now too...

I have now paid one full €146 that they claim I owe but technically I should just owe a €6 from the start. I felt bullied into it and the only thing that could support my case was an record with the e-flow call centre of me having made the phone call to them and them saying that my account was fine, and it was their error. No such record exists they tell me. So I was willing to take my chances in court if it ever came to court but to have a properly defended case etc would cost me more monetarily and more in trauma and worry. So i just pay the gaddam thing and I think you should do the same. It was your fault and as bad and inefficient as their system is, we have to be realistic here.

Our man in Havana

Why are people simply rolling over?

Seth Brundle

When threatened, its easy to believe that solicitors are in the right!

boarddotie

Bond-007 wrote: »

Why are people simply rolling over?

I had fought my 'case' for 6 weeks now and got one of my €146 cancelled. There was no rolling over by me. It was more of a very very slow flop...

kbannon wrote: »

When threatened, its easy to believe that solicitors are in the right!

Very true, but after 6 weeks of trying to prove my case I had exhausted all avenues save paying €90 to write me a solicitors letter. For a fine of only €146 I didnt see the point. My principles and my strong views against them were gone. I am away with work in the US for thw whole Summer and I didnt want it hanging over me.

Those solictiors are not right but at some stage its ok to come off the high horse and cut your losses.

rustbucket

have been on the phone to both Eflow and the solicitors all morning.

Neither are budging. Eflow say its now off their records and they cant access it and the solicitors are well.... just not keen on coming to a compromise.

I offered to pay the initial fine of €40 for my forgetfullnes. I really believe that a further increase of €100 is absolutely scandalous and certainly warrants at least a phone call from eflow before it is escalated to this level.

Granted, it is my fault but what if your letter gets lost in the post, or you move house in the process?

Anyway im already thinking that it will be a painfull process so am gonna bite the bullet and pay it.

boarddotie

rustbucket wrote: »

have been on the phone to both Eflow and the solicitors all morning.

Neither are budging. Eflow say its now off their records and they cant access it and the solicitors are well.... just not keen on coming to a compromise.

I offered to pay the initial fine of €40 for my forgetfullnes. I really believe that a further increase of €100 is absolutely scandalous and certainly warrants at least a phone call from eflow before it is escalated to this level.

Granted, it is my fault but what if your letter gets lost in the post, or you move house in the process?

Anyway im already thinking that it will be a painfull process so am gonna bite the bullet and pay it.

They are very Paisley about the whole thing (i.e. No Compromise) but if you had a case whereby it was somehow an e-flow error it would definitely be worth persuing. The €100 addition is steep but its a good deterrant and a warning to us to be so so careful when paying. I know if I ever go through M50 again and when I pay it I will be looking for receipts, getting the names and shoe sizes of the people I speak with, everything in writing, making sure phone calls are logged etc.

Lenny

boarddotie wrote: »

Just pay it. I was in a similar situation a while back. Some background:


I have now paid one full €146 that they claim I owe but technically I should just owe a €6 from the start. I felt bullied into it and the only thing that could support my case was an record with the e-flow call centre of me having made the phone call to them and them saying that my account was fine, and it was their error. No such record exists they tell me. So I was willing to take my chances in court if it ever came to court but to have a properly defended case etc would cost me more monetarily and more in trauma and worry. So i just pay the gaddam thing and I think you should do the same. It was your fault and as bad and inefficient as their system is, we have to be realistic here.

This is the exzact same thing that happened me.
I paid the first 6 euro by lazerit was a day late or so
got all the fines, rang up. spoke to an english johnny and told me there was an error in the system and paid another 6 euro.
paid that by visa, then got an appeal rejected in the post. rang up again told the fines still stand there was no record of the last call about the error, was told they'd clear the fines if i setup an acocunt with them.
didn'thave details and called back to set it up, and low and behold it was passed to the solictors the day I was last talking to them about clearing the fines.
expect from the looks of things 146 fine x 2 for non payment.
Now I have went o the bank got the statements reprinted off,
spent about 2.5 hours on the phone in total and time quing up in the bank
after paying 12 quid for at the start was 2 journeys, and now they want a further 146 x 2 ? like I mean, where the hell has my orgional 12quid went?!
I am either going to write to the solictors and refuse to pay anymore with the statements, or else aggree to pay it back but in installments of maybe 5-10 per week which they should not be able to refuse(but this makes me ammit to the fine) so dono what to do yet.

niceirishfella

rustbucket wrote: »

Granted, it is my fault but what if your letter gets lost in the post, or you move house in the process?

Anyway im already thinking that it will be a painfull process so am gonna bite the bullet and pay it.

I think OP you've found your answer. Pay the €40 stating you never got any letters and ask where they sent recorded mail?
If they can't prove they were, tell them to go to hell.
The onus is on them to prove it. Simple.
You'll never spend a second in court over it.
and if you do, you'd win anyways.

Lenny

niceirishfella wrote: »

I think OP you've found your answer. Pay the €40 stating you never got any letters and ask where they sent recorded mail?
If they can't prove they were, tell them to go to hell.
The onus is on them to prove it. Simple.
You'll never spend a second in court over it.
and if you do, you'd win anyways.

I was going to do this trick (as I have not recieved the solictors letter yet)
But I work in a debt collecting agency and this trick... does not really work at all,
they do have thigns logged on when letters were sent out, fair enough fi the first one got lost, they'll send another reminding letter after the 7 days..

Seth Brundle

Lenny wrote: »

Now I have went o the bank got the statements reprinted off,
spent about 2.5 hours on the phone in total and time quing up in the bank
after paying 12 quid for at the start was 2 journeys

Isn't it great how barrier free tolling saved you time

boarddotie

Lenny wrote: »

rang up. spoke to an english johnny and told me there was an error in the system and paid another 6 euro.
paid that by visa, then got an appeal rejected in the post. rang up again told the fines still stand there was no record of the last call about the error,

Similar to me then, whereby the record of the call didnt exist even though I had a print out from my Meteor a/c to say I had rang the number on a certain time and day. Without me having the proof from there side I had nothing. I wonder are they conveniently 'losing' records of these calls because in fairness to them when I rang up they handily had records of all the other calls I made (the more recent non-NB ones).

niceirishfella

Lenny wrote: »

But I work in a debt collecting agency and this trick... does not really work at all,
they do have thigns logged on when letters were sent out, .

lenny, you're talking Bollix mate. It's not about sending out letters, its about them arriving in the hands of the proper addressee.

Our man in Havana

Also debt collectors have no powers in law.

Lenny

Its in our own intrest to make sure we get our hands on these letters
as because as the case it works when someone has no intentions of paying back there loan and there letters go "missing" the next call is someone on the door hand delivering a summons,
but this is for ammounts in the thousands and not for this type of relation
still dono what to do with the fine myself..
never thought of the meteor bill too, will be reprinting that

niceirishfella

Bond-007 wrote: »

Also debt collectors have no powers in law.

that, and the fact they are scummy spivs.:D

Sizzler

rustbucket wrote: »

have been on the phone to both Eflow and the solicitors all morning.

Neither are budging. Eflow say its now off their records and they cant access it and the solicitors are well.... just not keen on coming to a compromise.

I offered to pay the initial fine of €40 for my forgetfullnes. I really believe that a further increase of €100 is absolutely scandalous and certainly warrants at least a phone call from eflow before it is escalated to this level.

Granted, it is my fault but what if your letter gets lost in the post, or you move house in the process?

Anyway im already thinking that it will be a painfull process so am gonna bite the bullet and pay it.

Complain to the NRA and keep a copy of the letter that you are going to send them.:)

boarddotie wrote: »

I had fought my 'case' for 6 weeks now and got one of my €146 cancelled. There was no rolling over by me. It was more of a very very slow flop...

Can't believe you paid these clowns, for NOTHING. What I don't get is you came on here aksing for advice and although you did the toing and froing for a few weeks you still paid them They are taking joe public to the cleaners. If I were you and felt as strongly as you did about the farcical experience you had I would have went to the newspapers and I bet you it would have been sorted same day.

Seth Brundle

saw this link in a thread in the Commuting & Transport forum
http://www.rate-your-solicitor.com/index.php?section=details&id=10364
Pierse & Fitzgibbon come very highly rated. Not!

unkel

kbannon wrote: »

saw this link in a thread in the Commuting & Transport forum
http://www.rate-your-solicitor.com/index.php?section=details&id=10364
Pierse & Fitzgibbon come very highly rated. Not!

One of the worst ratings in the country according to that link! :eek:

One could only wonder why the owners decided to go into business with the tolls company. Maybe it is based on very profitable projections of collecting "debts"?

Maybe bullying and threatening people into paying fines works?

None of this is true. I'm only speculating a "what if" situation of course.

How can we make sure the first court case is published on this thread if it ever happens?

Our man in Havana

How can we make sure the first court case is published on this thread if it ever happens?

The indo and/or the evening herald will surely oblige with a propaganda report, full of inaccurate information of course.

Capt'n Midnight

kbannon wrote: »

When threatened, its easy to believe that solicitors are in the right!

it's also the economics trying to fight a €149 bill would probably cost as much especially if you add in the grief and stress

it's paramount to emotional blackmail, don't forget the politicians used our money to pay for this :mad:

briana7214

buddy of mine has gotten two bills from these guys and he's never been to Dublin ! never even left Munster (not by car anyway:D)

Capt'n Midnight

Out of curiousity, are we now seeing people driving on fake plates ?
In the UK the practice of using the license number of a car similar to your make and model was so common that you need proof of ownership of the car to get a plate made up. Over here it's a little easier.

How would you prove you didn't use the M50 on that day, especially since 1 in 4 cars in the country are only a short distance from it ?

All too easy to check the marks car for the absence of a fob.

Our man in Havana

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Out of curiousity, are we now seeing people driving on fake plates ?
In the UK the practice of using the license number of a car similar to your make and model was so common that you need proof of ownership of the car to get a plate made up. Over here it's a little easier.

How would you prove you didn't use the M50 on that day, especially since 1 in 4 cars in the country are only a short distance from it ?

All too easy to check the marks car for the absence of a fob.

What started happening in the UK was the people started stealing the actual plates. The UK police now advise people who have had their plates stolen to apply to the DVLA for a new number.

Here, anyone can walk into a motor factors and get any plate they like made up without proof they own the number concerned.

As regarding comparing the dents etc, how much detail do the photos held by the NRA show? Would they be good enough? I doubt it.

Lenny

Bond-007 wrote: »

What started happening in the UK was the people started stealing the actual plates. The UK police now advise people who have had their plates stolen to apply to the DVLA for a new number.

Here, anyone can walk into a motor factors and get any plate they like made up without proof they own the number concerned.

As regarding comparing the dents etc, how much detail do the photos held by the NRA show? Would they be good enough? I doubt it.

I surely doubt any motor factors would make up plate for anyone over the counter without the logbook..
its a law over here too, and also the machines that make the reg plates store all the plates its ever made.. but no body ever checks up on them..

Our man in Havana

I surely doubt any motor factors would make up plate for anyone over the counter without the logbook..

You most certainly can.
Maybe some plate makers are now being responsible and ask for proof and keep records?

niceirishfella

Lenny wrote: »

I surely doubt any motor factors would make up plate for anyone over the counter without the logbook..

yeah.............right.:rolleyes::pac:

Lenny

Well the garage I work in, I'd never make any plates for anyone without proof

Our man in Havana

Good for you.

Seth Brundle

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

How would you prove you didn't use the M50 on that day, especially since 1 in 4 cars in the country are only a short distance from it ?

Surely the onus is on them to prove that you did use the bridge? Otherwise, they could send letters out to anyone and everyone claiming that they used the bridge.
Oh wait!

Our man in Havana

The AA have an opinion here.

Court cases pending

With the system now up and running for eight months there are quite a number of motorists who have reached the stage of receiving solicitors’ letters threatening court action. Unfair as it is on those people part of me hopes that they wind up being taken to court. The NRA and the various subcontractors are likely to find themselves seriously embarrassed and chastised by the process.

But it is better still to get the problem fixed. I will be bringing the matter directly to the attention of Transport Minister Noel Dempsey and I hope that he can compel the parties involved to get it sorted as a matter of urgency.

Even the AA reckons they are on a hiding to nothing.

moneymouth77

and that's what you get for it, a stupid system that is unproven and a little too clever for its own good. what was wrong with the good, old fashioned toll booth?

R.O.R

moneymouth77 wrote: »

and that's what you get for it, a stupid system that is unproven and a little too clever for its own good. what was wrong with the good, old fashioned toll booth?

30 - 45 minute delays to get through.

niceirishfella

Lenny wrote: »

Well the garage I work in, I'd never make any plates for anyone without proof

You're an exeption:D

moneymouth77

R.O.R wrote: »

30 - 45 minute delays to get through.

There must be some middle ground though what about those flip-a-coin bucket thingies...