The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

simples

Damien360 wrote: »

Anyone know how their database works. Are they storing car details and owner details long after payments and fines complete.

The last time I had access to the system it had records of all journeys from the start of the barrier-free tolling for all vehicles.

So, their system is obviously reading reg plates and cross referencing with a database for fines.

The first time the system reads a plate, it checks with the Vehicle Registration Unit (VRU) in Shannon to get the owner details (name and address). If this reg is already on the system then it will add the journey to the vehicle history.

It would appear, given our circumstances, that they are holding our details on their database and the database is randomly picking defaulters from the fianl database.

Should they store your details after you have cleared their payment system ? Is that legal ?

Given the vast amount of problems with eFlow it is better if they are able to see a full history of your vehicle, payments etc. And I'm not sure of the exact legal standing but most companies are able to keep such records for themselves if not for the benefit of customers.

Hopefully that answers your questions.. feel free to ask any more or let me know if I haven't answered properly

Our man in Havana

The first time the system reads a plate, it checks with the Vehicle Registration Unit (VRU) in Shannon to get the owner details (name and address). If this reg is already on the system then it will add the journey to the vehicle history.

So it asks for the owners details before any default on paying the toll? Does it do the same for tag users?

mcwhirter

simples wrote: »

Hey I'm an ex-employee, but I might have a solution as I got this a few times in the call centre..

Have you tried adding the new bank details first, then making the new details the primary payment method, then deleting the old details? Sometimes customers try to delete old details before adding new ones and the system won't normally allow this.

Alternatively if you call the centre they should be fit to do this for you.

Also if you have a tag account you should check out http://www.tagcompare.ie/ as this details the different tag providers and their terms of service.

A lot of people are with EazyPass but I don't know what they are like as a provider.. also it won't guarantee you will still have a problem-free experience. There were always calls coming in from customers of other tag providers getting billed in error.. something which people may note has nothing to do with the call centre provider :P

Hope this helps!!

Thanks, but I now do not have a laser card, so cannot seem to enter a visa card number as the type of card can't be changed. Also when I try entering the account number or direct debit, it says it already exists. Yet no money seems to be debited.

simples

Bond-007 wrote: »

So it asks for the owners details before any default on paying the toll? Does it do the same for tag users?

Correct - as soon as a reg appears on the system the details are obtained from Shannon. Sometimes there can be delays, a couple of hours mostly, or maybe longer. The system will not always get the details as soon as the reg is read, but it will do more often than not.

When someone registers their vehicle on a tag account, the reg is entered and the system gets from Shannon the owner details, and also the car make, model and colour. This helps the person confirm the registration entered is correct.

simples

mcwhirter wrote: »

Thanks, but I now do not have a laser card, so cannot seem to enter a visa card number as the type of card can't be changed. Also when I try entering the account number or direct debit, it says it already exists. Yet no money seems to be debited.

If you have a tag account you need to either pay with a Laser card or provide direct debit details for your bank account. You should be able to see the direct debit details on the system, as the system tells you it already exists, and make them the primary payment method. If not, maybe calling the centre may be best. They will be able to see the history of payment methods on the account and should be able to make the changes for you. If you want, you can make a "One-Time Payment" with your credit card.. you just can't add this as the main payment method.

The system has issues with credit cards on tag accounts (amongst other things lol).. I don't know if this is a flaw or if it is intentional.. it is something we found out not long before the call centre moved so unfortunately I don't have any more info for you on that.

Of course there may be some changes since I lost my job.. though I doubt it. The words "piss up" and "brewery" come to mind

Any other questions feel free to PM or reply!

guitar

and you never know, abtran may now be able to assign money against late trips...rather than forcing everyone to pay again!

BFassassin

I am just after trying to pay for my parents car after they went through yester day but I got this message

"

We were unable to process your request for the following reason:
Referred
Contact: click here.

"

Does anyone know what this would be about?
Thanks


edit: Just did it again and it worked this time. I just hope I dont get charged twice for it.

Tazzle

BFassassin wrote: »

I am just after trying to pay for my parents car after they went through yester day but I got this message

"

We were unable to process your request for the following reason:
Referred
Contact: click here.

"

Does anyone know what this would be about?
Thanks


edit: Just did it again and it worked this time. I just hope I dont get charged twice for it.

Referred is just a fancy word for declined.

Kotek Besar

Tazzle wrote: »

Referred is just a fancy word for declined.

It isn't, it means referred to an agent to decide whether or not to allow the transaction. Usually the merchant is given a number to call to speak to said agent.

simples

benifa wrote: »

It isn't, it means referred to an agent to decide whether or not to allow the transaction. Usually the merchant is given a number to call to speak to said agent.

agents don't and can't decide whether or not to allow a transaction.

this "referral" could have been a problem with the system at the time e.g. could not verify details with the card issuer or some other technical problem; the details may have been entered incorrectly; etc.

you could have contacted an agent but the likelihood is that they won't know why your transaction was not successful, though they should have been able to process it for you themselves.

oh and BFassassin.. make sure you check your card statement to make sure you weren't charged twice, though I don't think you would have been.
if you were, you can request a refund or leave it as a credit for future journeys. if you can't get your statement you can ring the 1890 number and get them to check.

Kotek Besar

simples wrote: »

agents don't and can't decide whether or not to allow a transaction.

<snip>

I didn't mean an Eflow customer service agent, I was referring to the credit card company agents.

If you are a merchant and accept credit card payments, "declined" and "referred" are not the same. The latter means the merchant should contact the credit card processing company for a decision on the transaction.

Carawaystick

simples wrote: »

Have you tried adding the new bank details first, then making the new details the primary payment method, then deleting the old details? Sometimes customers try to delete old details before adding new ones and the system won't normally allow this.

This procedure is sailing close to the wind regarding obeying the data protection act. A data controller must remove old or incorrect data when they are aware of them. Not allowing old bank details to be removed conflicts with this.

Our man in Havana

Yes, there are massive fines for breaching the Data Protection Act.

mcwhirter

Carawaystick wrote: »

This procedure is sailing close to the wind regarding obeying the data protection act. A data controller must remove old or incorrect data when they are aware of them. Not allowing old bank details to be removed conflicts with this.

I called Eflow as had no response from 2 emails I sent. The customer service representative said he can not update direct debit details and that the credit department of eflow have to call me but he could not give me a date or time when they would call. He could only pass on my request to them.
Also he could not delete my old bank details on the website so they are still showing.
I am wondering when they will call as they haven't had any money from me since april, they must be doing well if they don't need my cash is all I can say
This company operates differently to any other I have used before, I am surprised they are still operating with the mess of their customer services.

thebman

Carawaystick wrote: »

This procedure is sailing close to the wind regarding obeying the data protection act. A data controller must remove old or incorrect data when they are aware of them. Not allowing old bank details to be removed conflicts with this.

loads of systems work like this online. If you want to delete your account, you ring them and they'll do it.

Xbox Live works like this with credit card details which I found worrying.

simples

mcwhirter wrote: »

The customer service representative said he can not update direct debit details and that the credit department of eflow have to call me but he could not give me a date or time when they would call. He could only pass on my request to them.

unless things have changed DRASTICALLY in the last month, you won't be getting a call from the credit department. the only people who normally call you are in the contact centre itself.

what they might do is send a support request to head office and await a response from them, or you might get an email, but to be honest I highly doubt a call will come from anyone other than the call centre.

i have tried but can't think of any reason the system wouldn't let the agent change your details, if he can't do it then there's few people who can. maybe when he says "credit department" he means theres yet another system issue that needs looked in to

Sponge Bob

The stupid piece of crap system does not accept Irish Placenames , eg Baile Átha Cliath in the county field . Therefore when they check with Shannon they return no information in the county field even though Shannon accepts Baile Átha Cliath as a county ....because it is a county innit .

BÁC 8 causes similar grief in the Postcode despite being acceptable to Shannon .

An interesting side effect ( I am told) is that the solicitors in Kerry have no idea what to do with serving summonses as they must go to the registered vehicle address .....which of course they cannot get

Our man in Havana

Can they not even get a partial on the addresses?

Sponge Bob

Maybe, not county or postcode is all I know.

I suspect they may not be allowed to 'tamper' with data from Shannon so if it does not import or populate correctly from Shannon to eFlow then they are stumped .

Our man in Havana

So I could change my car to Contae an Lú and they can't touch me?

I would imagine if a reg came back to AN Other, 1 main street, Nenagh they could add in the Tipperary part?

Carawaystick

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The stupid piece of crap system does not accept Irish Placenames , eg Baile Átha Cliath in the county field . Therefore when they check with Shannon they return no information in the county field even though Shannon accepts Baile Áthat Cliath as a county ....because it is .

BÁC 8 causes similar grief in the Postcode despite being acceptable to Shannon .

An interesting side effect ( I am told) is that the solicitors in Kerry have no idea what to do with serving summonses as they must go to the registered vehicle address .....which of course they cannot get

Guess what I'll be doing in the morning.....
genius!

Sponge Bob

They cannot add something that is not precisely what is on the computer in Shannon and they seem incapable of picking that up properly .

If you had Contae an Lú on your VLC and they sent a letter to Co. Louth after 'investigating' then you would have a strong case with the NRA ( direct) that eFlow were tampering with data from Shannon and that they are not allowed to do so under the terms of their contract with the NRA .

Based on some cases I have heard of the NRA would simply instruct them to drop all charges rather than face a 'misprocurement' rap themselves

But you must contact info@nra.ie and complain to them directly ....not eflow . That is most important .

Also remember that registering for a Video Account requires you to give the precise details on the VLC and if you want to _ahem_ practice then give Irish details and see what the call centre says

simples

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They cannot add something that is not precisely what is on the computer in Shannon and they seem incapable of picking that up properly.

That's an interesting theory.. the people who designed the system are French, and I think they designed it originally for an American company, so it is entirely plausible that it cannot cope with Irish place names. In my time with the system I had never seen an Irish place name on details from Shannon. Even when registering a customer with an account, the drop down menu for 'County' was entirely in English.

Another problem affected credit/debit cards on registered accounts. French and American cards ALWAYS get a new card number when re-issued, whether or not is is lost, stolen, expired or whatever. So when you went to add a new card with the same card number but a different expiry date, you would be told the card already exists. To get around this you had to amend the existing card details and just change the expiry date.

Sponge Bob

simples wrote: »

In my time with the system I had never seen an Irish place name on details from Shannon. Even when registering a customer with an account, the drop down menu for 'County' was entirely in English.

Oh Dear Dear !

First of all everybody is entitled to register their car to the Irish Form of their address ..even if you are Polish The call centre should facilitate registering for a video account that way .

However the lack of such a facility would also make the e-Flow system illegal if you live in a Gaeltacht area where the (N.B. please) official townland name is the Irish one .

The placenames order actually goes back to 2003 and predates the procurement of the e-Flow system by the NRA . I am shocked that the NRA deliberatelly broke the law and procured a system that does not support the placenames order . Shocked I am to the core

However the e-flow system should in all instances Bill to the precise address on the database in Shannon .

Our man in Havana

Are the enforcement notices available in Irish?

Sponge Bob

Not having the correct address for you , as per the Shannon database , voids the enforcement surely . It means they cannot send you any document in a timely manner which exposes you to an invidious level of financial hardship for something that is not your fault. In other words you suffer unduly for being Irish and with no county in the address < sniff > .

Note what I said yesterday evening in this thread . Any muppetry with addresses must be brought up direct with the NRA who procured a system that is illegal ( not with e-Flow) .

Any systemic complaints should be addressed to the NRA not to eFlow . The reason this is important is because the NRA should have taken all this into account when they procured the system in the first place.

You would be amazed at how quickly tolls and fines disappear when you complain to the NRA that 'their' system does not work ...because it is 'their' system

simples

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Oh Dear Dear !

First of all everybody is entitled to register their car to the Irish Form of their address ..even if you are Polish The call centre should facilitate registering for a video account that way .

Just to add to previous comments, the call centre agent can type in the rest of the address whatever way they like, so for example you could type the street address in Irish, it is just the county that cannot be typed manually and makes you choose in English.

Just wanted to make sure I didn't unintentionally mislead anyone

It's so interesting hearing everyone's comments now that I'm on the outside as it were! I'll continue to keep an eye on things and give whatever input I can. It would be very interesting to hear from anyone in Abtran to see how they are finding it, and for any system updates I wouldn't know about :P

bush Baby

And - if you're from the North and forget to make the payment the first contact E-flow makes with you is by solicitor's letter from Listowel.

Do they make it possible to pay in N. Ireland? Not at all. Nor are they able to process a payment if you call offering to pay using your Northern debit card. They have no facility with a payments company in the North. Yet, their call centre is there. Odd, n'est ce pas?

Seems to me there's a scurrilous, mischievous anti-northern Bias afoot

Kotek Besar

bush Baby wrote: »

Seems to me there's a scurrilous, mischievous anti-northern Bias afoot

I'm not sure about that, more that the entire system, on a whole, is not very well thought out.

jaffa20

My friend used the m50 twice in my car about a week or so ago. Anyway, he forgot to pay the 6euro by 8pm the next day but did pay it a day later. Anyway, i got a letter for late payment fee and didn't ring him so just assumed he forgot. so i paid the 12euro. Anyway, since finding out,i've been on to them with continious emails and they are not getting back to me with a refund. They are quick enough to request money of me but their customer care is atrocious if they can't even answer an email. Gonna give them a few more days and then ring them.They will probably want a receipt and everything so the refund won't be worth the hassle. I even offered to register to avoid this happening again.

Edit: just rang them and my next 2 trips will be free. At least i hope so.:)

simples

bush Baby wrote: »

And - if you're from the North and forget to make the payment the first contact E-flow makes with you is by solicitor's letter from Listowel.

Do they make it possible to pay in N. Ireland? Not at all. Nor are they able to process a payment if you call offering to pay using your Northern debit card. They have no facility with a payments company in the North. Yet, their call centre is there. Odd, n'est ce pas?

Seems to me there's a scurrilous, mischievous anti-northern Bias afoot

If your car is northern or UK reg, the first contact you receive should be from EPCplc who collect on eFlow's behalf. eFlow do not have access to DVLNI or DVLA records, and neither do their solicitors as far as I'm aware. Therefore they must use a UK registered firm who do have authorisation to access these records.

The vast majority of road users are southern registered vehicles, I wouldn't know the exact numbers but only maybe 5% of calls we received would have been for anything other than southern reg cars. I guess it's the responsibility of road users who aren't registered in the south to make sure they have means and method to pay southern tolls. Also, the call centre is, as we know too well, no longer in the North. It's now in Cork.

simples

jaffa20 wrote: »

Edit: just rang them and my next 2 trips will be free. At least i hope so.:)

What would have happened is:
1) Your car was registered as having used the road
2) Payment not received by 8pm
3) Payment made the following day €6, no reference number given to close specific journeys so this sits as a credit
4) You paid the €12 with your reference, closing the journeys
5) Your friend's payment remains as a credit to close 2 future journeys

eFlow don't give anything for free lol, your friend has already paid for the journeys

this was such a common problem, although most people asked for the original €6 credit to be used against the outstanding fines which wasn't possible and more often than not ended in a row or complaint. what do eFlow do? move the call centre. newsflash for eFlow - the system still sucks!

newmills

simples wrote: »

If your car is northern or UK reg, the first contact you receive should be from EPCplc who collect on eFlow's behalf. eFlow do not have access to DVLNI or DVLA records, and neither do their solicitors as far as I'm aware. Therefore they must use a UK registered firm who do have authorisation to access these records.

The vast majority of road users are southern registered vehicles, I wouldn't know the exact numbers but only maybe 5% of calls we received would have been for anything other than southern reg cars. I guess it's the responsibility of road users who aren't registered in the south to make sure they have means and method to pay southern tolls. Also, the call centre is, as we know too well, no longer in the North. It's now in Cork.

Mum and Dad have been down to visit me from the north and have went through the toll at least 20-30 times over the last year - they have never received anything from anyone about payment, fines etc - and they are driving a northern reg vehicle!!

Our man in Havana

Indeed. It is all a load of bullocks. They can trace very few UK/NI cars. Even then you can simply ignore them.

cianclarke

OK folks, heres one. 3 toll journies unpaid (Not working on my iPhone? you're joking? But what's this?Not in Google Chrome either? Safari? Course not.. Joke tbh)
So, I think grand I'll just take the €6 * 3 =€18, i'm a tool, whatcha gonna do..
BUT - the notices went to the previous owner. Crap system needs some STR number from the letter which I didn't have, so now they want €150 or so. For 3 trips.
Any advice as to argue this one? Didn't have much luck first time but couldn't get a supervisor, they promised me a callback which never came.

simples

newmills wrote: »

Mum and Dad have been down to visit me from the north and have went through the toll at least 20-30 times over the last year - they have never received anything from anyone about payment, fines etc - and they are driving a northern reg vehicle!!

EPCplc take the info from eFlow and they take the decision of whether or not to chase payment. I don't believe they chase every single case, but I am surprised your parents have been through so often without hearing anything! Fair play to them for getting away with it

simples

cianclarke wrote: »

OK folks, heres one. 3 toll journies unpaid (Not working on my iPhone? you're joking? But what's this?Not in Google Chrome either? Safari? Course not.. Joke tbh)
So, I think grand I'll just take the €6 * 3 =€18, i'm a tool, whatcha gonna do..
BUT - the notices went to the previous owner. Crap system needs some STR number from the letter which I didn't have, so now they want €150 or so. For 3 trips.
Any advice as to argue this one? Didn't have much luck first time but couldn't get a supervisor, they promised me a callback which never came.

In my experience you probably won't get too far with the call centre. This isn't a great situation.. the line the call centre will probably take will be: "You failed to pay within the time limit so the fees have been applied correctly. As the legal owner at the time it is your responsibility to pay the tolls within time limits."

Hopefully the system has changed since I was involved, God knows we got updates from BEF every week cos they modified things one way or another. Other than that, you could try complaining to BEF, or moreso to the NRA? Cite the ****ty online payments as a problem?
Do it quickly though, before the TVNs start kicking in.

If you have paid any amount so far it may help you. Maybe if there are other drivers who have received the fines and had them removed in this situation, they may be able to offer more advice from their side.

jmck87

If you have knowledge of the legal contracts you will never have to pay for the toll. Read up on Bill of Exchange Act. Request proof of claim. Send them a notice (like they send you) that you are billing them for any time they require you in court. Then send a notice to the Dept of Transport saying you will bill them x amount for every week you have to be extorted into paying an illegal toll on the road.

But dont take any of the above advice without extensive research.

celticbest

What is the story with the Toll full stop it completely divides the city in 2 widening the North - South Divide.

Make the M50 toll free.

It's the same on the M1 at Drogheda all local traffic is forced through the town or else they have to Pay a toll for a 5 minute trip to get from one side of Drogheda to the other. I believe the government plan the positioning of Tolls to ensure that the maxinmum revenue possible is collect on each particular road not to ease traffic in towns or stress on people.

mcwhirter

mcwhirter wrote: »

I called Eflow as had no response from 2 emails I sent. The customer service representative said he can not update direct debit details and that the credit department of eflow have to call me but he could not give me a date or time when they would call. He could only pass on my request to them.
Also he could not delete my old bank details on the website so they are still showing.
I am wondering when they will call as they haven't had any money from me since april, they must be doing well if they don't need my cash is all I can say
This company operates differently to any other I have used before, I am surprised they are still operating with the mess of their customer services.

Ten days later, I'm still waiting for a call from Eflow.:mad:

Fighting Irish

kbannon wrote: »

Incidentally, I went through the gantrys twice on Friday and yet again forgot to pay and now I'm fupped if I'm paying the fine.

Anyway, seeing as this bee has been in my bonnet for a while, I called the NRA and raised the issue with someone in the PPP department. They claim that they or a colleague will call me back. Should they do so, I'll let you know.

:rolleyes:

Fighting Irish

I went through 6 times yesterday and fuck them if they think i'm gonna pay the toll or the fine.

Has anyone ever robbed a car and just drove through the toll a few times? Any stories?

thecommander

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I went through 6 times yesterday and fuck them if they think i'm gonna pay the toll or the fine.

why?

Fighting Irish

thecommander wrote: »

why?

it was a joke, taking the piss outta people who are saying pretty much the same thing in this thread

simples

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Has anyone ever robbed a car and just drove through the toll a few times? Any stories?

If someone's car is stolen and is used on the M50 then the owner will get letters for unpaid journeys (assuming the thieves didn't pay - why would they?). What the owner needs to do is supply eFlow with a crime reference number that they got from the Gardai when they reported the theft, and eFlow should then remove the fines/tolls.

Our man in Havana

should

We are talking about eflow here, so I would take nothing for granted.

simples

Bond-007 wrote: »

We are talking about eflow here, so I would take nothing for granted.

lol i was very careful with my choice of words there.. i originally had "will" then thought the better of it

mcwhirter

mcwhirter wrote: »

Ten days later, I'm still waiting for a call from Eflow.:mad:

I don't think Eflow want my money, I owe them a few months worth now, still no call from to take my correct bank details.
I wish they would just go ****ing bust, the ****.

Sizzler

jmck87 wrote: »

If you have knowledge of the legal contracts you will never have to pay for the toll. Read up on Bill of Exchange Act. Request proof of claim. Send them a notice (like they send you) that you are billing them for any time they require you in court. Then send a notice to the Dept of Transport saying you will bill them x amount for every week you have to be extorted into paying an illegal toll on the road.

But dont take any of the above advice without extensive research.

Probably one of the most interesting posts on this thread, would love to know more about this

browner85

lets just blow it up!!!!!! hummmm???