The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

R.O.R

rocky wrote: »

Went twice through the free flowing toll on Saturday, only paid this morning, I was in a rental car . How likely is it that the rental company will come after me for penalties? Practically I exceeded the 8pm next day rule, and they were supposed to send a "notification for payment" for 6 euro per pass, but since this will go to the rental company, I'm not likely to get it, am I? So could not pay the penalty price

The rental company will pay the toll and €3 penalty per journey, then charge it on to your credit card - more than likely along with a healthy "administration" charge.

Our man in Havana

The rental company will charge your credit card.

simples

rocky wrote: »

Went twice through the free flowing toll on Saturday, only paid this morning, I was in a rental car . How likely is it that the rental company will come after me for penalties? Practically I exceeded the 8pm next day rule, and they were supposed to send a "notification for payment" for 6 euro per pass, but since this will go to the rental company, I'm not likely to get it, am I? So could not pay the penalty price

It depends on the rental company. Some of them have accounts with eFlow so journeys are registered and therefore do not accrue fines. However, not all rental companies are with eFlow.

I would personally say that if the company is with eFlow it is unlikely you will be charged a fine, but who knows?

browner85

tiff09 wrote: »

Please excuse my ignorance but how can you call it a scam when you are not paying

surely that is your own doing!

If Barriers were there you would still have to pay just because they are gone does not mean you cannot pay and get away with it

eh its very easy to forget to pay!! there system is a sham !!!!!!!!!!

kezilini

Sizzler wrote: »

Tried getting onto the head of the NRA or the department of transport? Nobody in their right mind would think court action would be fair in your case. I'd rope in as many people as you can.

Citizens Advice Bureau as a starter for ten. Also if you dont have the cash see if you can get state legal aid in advance.(Not sure if possible but worth a look?)

Yep sent an email to like 2 different head dudes in nra and the solicitor company!! Of course heard nothing!!!
All I can do now is show up to this stupid thing and hopefully not get some mental fine!!

Sizzler

kezilini wrote: »

Yep sent an email to like 2 different head dudes in nra and the solicitor company!! Of course heard nothing!!!
All I can do now is show up to this stupid thing and hopefully not get some mental fine!!

PM me with who you contacted in the NRA? I had success with a nice chap there recently

You're wasting your time with the solicitors.

DubOnHoliday

got a letter from eflow yesterday saying my wife ( a learner ) was on the m50 southbound in the middle of the night 2 weeks ago and we owed 6 euro.
I had to call up to learn they mistook the digits. Does that phonecall cost me? If so I'll be sending them the bill even if its 1 cent.

Our man in Havana

1890 number so it would be costing around 5 cent a minute.

Sizzler

DubOnHoliday wrote: »

got a letter from eflow yesterday saying my wife ( a learner ) was on the m50 southbound in the middle of the night 2 weeks ago and we owed 6 euro.
I had to call up to learn they mistook the digits. Does that phonecall cost me? If so I'll be sending them the bill even if its 1 cent.

Yes it does. Should have let them waste a few more letters and rack up some more imaginary charges before setting them straight. Inefficiency at its best!

Having heard Shane Ross on Today FM last evening it reminded me of the campaign he pushed to get the toll removed, did he really enviage such a farce at the end of it? Wonder if he would be interested now in picking up the baton and challenging how the system "works" and the ethics of trying to charge someone up to €146 per journey.

Seth Brundle

Slightly off topic:

The Government’s spending watchdog has revealed further examples of lax controls on Government spending in the deal for the M50 Toll Bridge, civilian policing and benefit fraud..

:: M50 West Link Toll Bridge

On the buy-out of the West Link Toll Bridge the C&AG said the Government could not pull out of its contract with National Toll Roads without having to pay compensation.

Under the final deal the state has to pay €50m a year, indexed to inflation, between August 2008 and March 2020 – around €3m more than the compensation payments if tolls were abolished.

John Buckley said the State was hampered in its negotiations with NTR because there was no termination clause in the original agreement it made with the company when the bridge was built.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/govt-blundered-in-m50-toll-bridge-deal-426006.html

squod

DubOnHoliday wrote: »

got a letter from eflow yesterday saying my wife ( a learner ) was on the m50 southbound in the middle of the night 2 weeks ago and we owed 6 euro.
I had to call up to learn they mistook the digits. Does that phonecall cost me? If so I'll be sending them the bill even if its 1 cent.

Never ring the b'stards, there's an email address on the website.

Sizzler

I got a penalty notice yesterday in the post for a car I sold months ago. Rang them up (after waiting 10 mins to get through) the guy told me he couldnt do anything, I told him I'm just letting eflow know it aint my car and you are wasting your time sending me letters. He told me to chase up who owns it now, I said it wasnt my problem.

On checking online it appears whoever owns it now is having a great time using the M50, fair play to them, the letters are going in the bin!

A disgrace that eflow didnt even want to try and help, he didnt even put the tolls into query. He wanted me to sort it out. Good luck with that.

An absolute sham of an organisation.

R.O.R

Sizzler wrote: »

I got a penalty notice yesterday in the post for a car I sold months ago. Rang them up (after waiting 10 mins to get through) the guy told me he couldnt do anything, I told him I'm just letting eflow know it aint my car and you are wasting your time sending me letters. He told me to chase up who owns it now, I said it wasnt my problem.

On checking online it appears whoever owns it now is having a great time using the M50, fair play to them, the letters are going in the bin!

A disgrace that eflow didnt even want to try and help, he didnt even put the tolls into query. He wanted me to sort it out. Good luck with that.

An absolute sham of an organisation.

Did you complete the change of registration when you sold the car, and post it off to Shannon?

Looks like the car is still registered in your name - check that with Shannon. If it is, you may be liable for the tolls as the registered owner.

Sizzler

R.O.R wrote: »

Did you complete the change of registration when you sold the car, and post it off to Shannon?

Looks like the car is still registered in your name - check that with Shannon. If it is, you may be liable for the tolls as the registered owner.

I traded it in to a garage so god knows who's driving it now. Could be one of their mechanics.

As far as I am concerned I can demonstrate the car isnt mine.

R.O.R

Sizzler wrote: »

I traded it in to a garage so god knows who's driving it now. Could be one of their mechanics.

As far as I am concerned I can demonstrate the car isnt mine.

So the garage filled out the temp change of ownership. You need to get on to the garage and play hell with them as it appears the car still has you as the registered owner.

I'd also study the relevant bylaws to check whether they can enforce a penalty on the registered owner of the vehicle (still technically you) or whether it falls to the driver.

Our man in Havana

Garages are notorious for not sending off change of ownerships.

simples

Sizzler wrote: »

I traded it in to a garage so god knows who's driving it now. Could be one of their mechanics.

As far as I am concerned I can demonstrate the car isnt mine.

when i worked there we were told to advise that it is the old owner's responsibility to get their name removed from the vehicle, as it is in their best interests. so i would advise you to contact Shannon and get your name taken off, if nothing else it means you won't be harrassed by post.

pa990

it's the legal responsibility of the seller to put the new owners details on the log book and send it to shannon

Our man in Havana

pa990 wrote: »

it's the legal responsibility of the seller to put the new owners details on the log book and send it to shannon

The only exception is where a garage is involved.

mcwhirter

I'm still waiting. My last direct debit payment to eflow was back in March and the amount is adding up now.

wayne2107

I got a summons last week by regestered post in a red envelope. I was due in court last week. Wait for it... i owe them 965 yes nine hundred and sixty five euros for 8 trips lol. The letter was five pages long. Rang them and they gave e an extra week to pay. Cheque sent down to kerry yesterday. Can scan the letter up later if anyones intrested. Expensive mistake by me .

Our man in Havana

You should have stood your ground a fought.

mcwhirter

Cancelled my eflow account, switched to easytrip.

Eflow are a bunch of *****

Rozbeef

Hi guys, I am due to attend court on 19th Oct due to unpaid tolls. Entirely my fault but more through negligence and forgetfulness than anything else. I tried to see if they would accept me paying just the standard tolls that I failed to pay at the time but without luck. Does anyone know what is likely to happen in court? First time anything like this has happened to me, so have no clue of what to expect..

mcwhirter

When returning unwanted tags back to eflow, is the postage freepost or do the scoundrels expect us to pay?

thecommander

mcwhirter wrote: »

When returning unwanted tags back to eflow, is the postage freepost or do the scoundrels expect us to pay?

Id say if you've decided to return the tag then you pick up the cost. Why would they pay?

nava

mcwhirter wrote: »

When returning unwanted tags back to eflow, is the postage freepost or do the scoundrels expect us to pay?

Even they probably want you to send it by register post, if it gets lost by normal post you will probably still have to pay the admin fee or pay for the lost tag.

simples

mcwhirter wrote: »

When returning unwanted tags back to eflow, is the postage freepost or do the scoundrels expect us to pay?

We were told to advise customers that when returning tags, mark the package "POA" (Payment On Arrival) and eFlow pick up the cost. Not sure if this is still the case..

lolli

I got a letter from eflow today looking for 47 euro even though i've paid everytime. They really need to run it better.

Sizzler

Rozbeef wrote: »

Hi guys, I am due to attend court on 19th Oct due to unpaid tolls. Entirely my fault but more through negligence and forgetfulness than anything else. I tried to see if they would accept me paying just the standard tolls that I failed to pay at the time but without luck. Does anyone know what is likely to happen in court? First time anything like this has happened to me, so have no clue of what to expect..

Have you got a solicitor?

Dont be admitting your guilt online before the case is even heard mate :eek:

Rozbeef

Sizzler wrote: »

Have you got a solicitor?

Dont be admitting your guilt online before the case is even heard mate :eek:

No I don't have a solicitor. I'm just thinking of going there myself on the day and pleading my case... But I'm not sure how valid it is seeing as, well, I am guilty in theory.

Carawaystick

Rozbeef wrote: »

No I don't have a solicitor. I'm just thinking of going there myself on the day and pleading my case... But I'm not sure how valid it is seeing as, well, I am guilty in theory.

You aren't guilty of anything, it's a civil case. Only a criminal case determines guilt or innocence.

Rozbeef

Carawaystick wrote: »

You aren't guilty of anything, it's a civil case. Only a criminal case determines guilt or innocence.

Oh right, as I said never been to court before and my law classes are a distant memory...

Could anyone give advice on what to expect? And the likelyhood of the court/judge letting me explain my case?

PirateShampoo

Rozbeef wrote: »

Oh right, as I said never been to court before and my law classes are a distant memory...

Could anyone give advice on what to expect? And the likelyhood of the court/judge letting me explain my case?

You will probably end up with a heavly reduced fine.

The whole system is a joke. Wonder how much its costing them for all the people they are bringing to cort.

ImeldaD

Have just found this board and thread and am somewhat relieved to see that so many others are in agreement with the farce that is eflow on the M50 toll bridge.

They are totally inflexible. I have just missed the payment deadline (simply forgot) and paid a toll after 8pm the next day. I have sent them loads of emails asking why they can't allow longer, say 7day
s, to allow for people crossing it going to airport and away for a mini break, say a weekend.

I can't believe there is a toll anywhere else in the world that doesn't have at least a few booths that you can pay as you cross. This surely has to be against them that they can't accommodate this.

Also disputed toll received back in July (genuine, I didn't use it). I disputed it on line and never heard another dickey bird from them so presumed it was their mistake. NOW I have received letters from their solicitors in Tralee threatening court action. To be honest I would nearly welcome a day in court to vent my frustrations at them. I know someone who rang the same solicitors when they got similar letter and they were rude, obnoxious and arrogant and wouldn't even consider negotiating lower charge than €152 fine (x 2) just to settle it. Reckon the solicitors are the last ones to talk to as they want to go to court and get more money from eflow. I really can't believe this system is being tolerated and would love someone (yes maybe Shane Ross as suggested elsewhere) to organise a class action or something. Maybe after all this Lisbon talk and the bankers talk etc. Prime Time will do an expose! Anyone got any contacts in RTE?? Anyway, it's good to know I am not alone!!

Sizzler

Rozbeef wrote: »

Oh right, as I said never been to court before and my law classes are a distant memory...

Could anyone give advice on what to expect? And the likelyhood of the court/judge letting me explain my case?

Out of interest, what company name is on the summons? Is it eflow (betEireFlow) or is it the solictors that are getting you into court?

I'm not a solicitor so what you do is your call but if you can afford it, I would go and see a decent solictor, i.e. a clued in guy or girl who has the appetite to challenge this and not just there to take their fee. Its only a matter of time before the whole thing is challenged in court and a judge sides with the road user. Have a careful think about what you are going to say and feel free to PM me as I have noted a few "flaws" shall we say in their system.

If you can afford it I would definitely get a brief on board, if even only for a consultation.

In the interim I would also email your local TD / consumer affairs / joe duffy etc and say its a disgrace. I would be amazed if there is any other country in europe who will try and clog up the courts system by trying to ride people for €152 for what is effectively a 2km stretch of tollable road.

I would also get in touch with the CEO of eflow here in Ireland and try the NRA also, they have managed to step in and resolve boardsies queries over the last few months. Again, happy to help there on PM.

PirateShampoo wrote: »

You will probably end up with a heavly reduced fine.

The whole system is a joke. Wonder how much its costing them for all the people they are bringing to cort.

Dont be so quick to assume that, but I have yet to see any media coverage of people that have been brought to court and penalised.

It costs about €180 minimum to get someone into court so yes they are losing money on each "transaction" and thats before you consider all the other costs of pre-court debt collection! They are doing this in the vein hope that that some people will crumble and simply pay out of fear. They are willing to take the hit on the financials purely to get the "message" out there that they are hardliners and will take people to court for small debts/ Vodafone & o2 and a lot of the banks will do this on an almost daily basis just to prove a point. Stubbs Gazette will be an eye opener for some!

ImeldaD wrote: »

Have just found this board and thread and am somewhat relieved to see that so many others are in agreement with the farce that is eflow on the M50 toll bridge.

They are totally inflexible. I have just missed the payment deadline (simply forgot) and paid a toll after 8pm the next day. I have sent them loads of emails asking why they can't allow longer, say 7day
s, to allow for people crossing it going to airport and away for a mini break, say a weekend.

I can't believe there is a toll anywhere else in the world that doesn't have at least a few booths that you can pay as you cross. This surely has to be against them that they can't accommodate this.

Also disputed toll received back in July (genuine, I didn't use it). I disputed it on line and never heard another dickey bird from them so presumed it was their mistake. NOW I have received letters from their solicitors in Tralee threatening court action. To be honest I would nearly welcome a day in court to vent my frustrations at them. I know someone who rang the same solicitors when they got similar letter and they were rude, obnoxious and arrogant and wouldn't even consider negotiating lower charge than €152 fine (x 2) just to settle it. Reckon the solicitors are the last ones to talk to as they want to go to court and get more money from eflow. I really can't believe this system is being tolerated and would love someone (yes maybe Shane Ross as suggested elsewhere) to organise a class action or something. Maybe after all this Lisbon talk and the bankers talk etc. Prime Time will do an expose! Anyone got any contacts in RTE?? Anyway, it's good to know I am not alone!!

Yes it is a farce, I dont believe there is such a thing as a class action in Ireland I am afraid but I do absoloutely agree that people need to stand up and complian about this. I said earlier in the thread that Shane Ross was instrumental in getting the toll booths removed but what does he think of the shannanigans now, its pure distain for road users and it doesnt appear anybody has stood up to them....YET!

ImeldaD

What ever happened as I have just discovered this board and thread and am in the same situation now myself?

ImeldaD

Thanks Sizzler. How do I PM you.

The letter is from the solicitors in Tralee on their headed paper.

Quote from their letter ...We refer to the above and confirm we act on behalf ot he National Roads Authority and have been instructed in relation to the above outstanding amout which is due by you to our client pursuant to Section 64 of the Roads Act 1993 (as amended). We understand particulars ot eh amount outstanding (which is shown overleaf have alreadh been furnished to you, and that to date the amount due has not been paid.

The purpose of this letter is to advise tha tunless you furnish us with payment of the avove sum, our client has instructed us to issue lefal proceedings with a view towards securing Judgement. Once Judgement has been issued same may be registed in the Central Office of the Hight Court which will result in the Judgement being published in Stubbs Gazette. You should be aware that having a Judgement registerd against ou will affect your credit rating.

We would urge you to take the contents of this Toll Violation Notice extremely seriously and to discharge the above mentioned debt within a perioud of seven days from the date of this letter otherwise court proceedings will issue against you without any further notice. Payment methods to discharge the debt are described overleaf.... end quote

website to make payment is www.pierfitz.ie/payments

In effect even though this letter is from Solicitors it is really a final request for payment before legal proceedings. Typing it above, I actually only read it now in detail.

Any other advice would be much appreciated and again, how do I pm you?

Thanks

ImeldaD

Just had a thought that if all content of this tread was printed out and brought to court, it would provide great evidence in defence of us poor suckers who are being exploited.

I am not against paying a toll for using the road, and I want to make that clear, but the customer (us) is not being facilitiated and as this is a monopoly they just don't care.

What I would like to see is:

An option to pay as you cross
Longer time to pay, say 7 days (I think an awful lot of people genuinely forget to pay before 8 p.m. the next day)






With all the unemployed legal eagles out there, can someone please consider doing something about this.

Toto Wolfcastle

ImeldaD wrote: »

An option to pay as you cross

I don't think that's a good idea at all. The payment options themselves are fine but...

ImeldaD wrote: »

Longer time to pay, say 7 days (I think an awful lot of people genuinely forget to pay before 8 p.m. the next day)

I agree with this. One day is not enough. I had a video account and now have a tag so I'm fine but very occasional users might not get the chance to pay within the time allowed.

Sizzler

ImeldaD wrote: »

Thanks Sizzler. How do I PM you.

The letter is from the solicitors in Tralee on their headed paper.

Quote from their letter ...We refer to the above and confirm we act on behalf ot he National Roads Authority and have been instructed in relation to the above outstanding amout which is due by you to our client pursuant to Section 64 of the Roads Act 1993 (as amended). We understand particulars ot eh amount outstanding (which is shown overleaf have alreadh been furnished to you, and that to date the amount due has not been paid.

The purpose of this letter is to advise tha tunless you furnish us with payment of the avove sum, our client has instructed us to issue lefal proceedings with a view towards securing Judgement. Once Judgement has been issued same may be registed in the Central Office of the Hight Court which will result in the Judgement being published in Stubbs Gazette. You should be aware that having a Judgement registerd against ou will affect your credit rating.

We would urge you to take the contents of this Toll Violation Notice extremely seriously and to discharge the above mentioned debt within a perioud of seven days from the date of this letter otherwise court proceedings will issue against you without any further notice. Payment methods to discharge the debt are described overleaf.... end quote

website to make payment is www.pierfitz.ie/payments

In effect even though this letter is from Solicitors it is really a final request for payment before legal proceedings. Typing it above, I actually only read it now in detail.

Any other advice would be much appreciated and again, how do I pm you?

Thanks

PM, look at the top right hand corner of your screen under your username.

This may also be useful for you, plenty of people you can lobby here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60694397&postcount=164

2nd Row Donkey

I'm up in court on monday the 19th Oct - in 5 days time for 5 unapid tolls back in april, they are looking for €948 quid.

I dont have a tag or a video account I just paid afterwards or when I got the letter saying I owed €6.

I definetly did not get subsequent letters about €46 fines on top of the original €6 or any previous letters from the solicitors requiring a payment of €140 that some other people on here appeared to have recieved. The 1st I knew about it was the letter with the court appearance date.

Haven't got a solictor to come with me but I'll take my chances on the day.

Anyone got any advice.

P.S. .. on the chances that the Judge imposes the fine on the day - when do I have to pay it by?

I'll put it this way - I WONT have €950 with me on Monday, in fact I won't have anywhere close to that. I could but i'm intentionally not bringing any money as i want to see what happens.

So what happens then? should I bring an over night bag in case I end up in Hotel MountJoy

Seriously - if the Judge gives me the option between paying those ***** in tralee or doing time/community service/suspended sentence etc, then I'll take any one of the latter options.

mamakevf

I'm from Donegal and drove through the M50 on my way to Carlow last weekend, and this was the first I heard of these tolls, I'm a bit worried now that I will be fined, is this possible?

Seth Brundle

Why wouldn't it be?
Did you use the bridge between the N3 and N4 interchanges?

mamakevf

Came down the M1 and paid a toll there, then joined on to the M50, then seen the markings on the road saying M50 toll,
What do you think, do I have to pay?

Seth Brundle

I don't know what markings you saw but if there were lots of signs telling you how much etc. then you passed the toll and you now owe €6 and yes unless you want to feel bullied by Sue, Leggit & Run in Kerry then pay up!

mamakevf

Na, wasn't on N3 or N4, nor did I see any signs telling me of costs, just markings on the actual road and signs above the road with phone no's.
I should be OK.

Toto Wolfcastle

mamakevf wrote: »

Na, wasn't on N3 or N4, nor did I see any signs telling me of costs, just markings on the actual road and signs above the road with phone no's.
I should be OK.

Eh...sounds like you will have to pay so if you passed under the signs and saw the markings on the road.

Wait til you get the letter asking you to pay though because you will need the barcode.

mamakevf

If I have to pay then fair enough, but snaring an unwary non-regular user seems wrong.
I already paid on the M1 and drove on to the M50 on my way to the M7.
There were no warnings about this extra toll before I drove through.

Toto Wolfcastle

mamakevf wrote: »

If I have to pay then fair enough, but snaring an unwary non-regular user seems wrong.
I already paid on the M1 and drove on to the M50 on my way to the M7.
There were no warnings about this extra toll before I drove through.

There are plenty of signs though to be fair. When I used it for the first time I noticed the signs.