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"Tailgating road bullies are scourge of motoring" - Irish Independent

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13

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    #62
    Joseph Kuhr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭Joseph Kuhr


    randomer wrote: »
    Are you saying that you would stay in front of a driver who tries to bully you out of the way when you are driving at the speed limit?

    If the alternative is to put my life in danger pulling into a hard shoulder which is clearly not fit for driving on let alone driving on one at high speed or if there are bends in the road and I don't know what is around the corner, a tractor, cyclist, parked car, big fcuk off pot hole (the reasons for not pulling into a hard shoulder on Irish roads are endless) then yes I will stay put in my lane.


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    #63
    Joseph Kuhr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭Joseph Kuhr


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    Then you might find one of my colleagues pulling you over for a wee chat to allow other traffic to progress.

    Driving is a privilege, not a right, sir.

    Give me a break. I should shove off the road to make way for a speeding motorist? There's nothing in the rules of the road that state that and you know it....you're just picking an argument now.


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    #64
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    Joseph Kuhr wrote: »
    Give me a break. I should shove off the road to make way for a speeding motorist? There's nothing in the rules of the road that state that and you know it....you're just picking an argument now.

    I'll still stop you for a chat and spot check, you'd expect it of a motorist going slower than you. You are not the road police. You have no right to drive. And if you continue to act the selfish jerk, you might lose your privileges some day. From the sounds of it, the sooner the better.

    EDIT: I don't expect you to drive in dangerous hard shoulders or around bends in the hard shoulder. I expect you to let other cars by when you have sufficient room to do so, and can do it in a safe manner according to your skills.


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    #65
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Joseph Kuhr wrote: »
    Give me a break. I should shove off the road to make way for a speeding motorist? There's nothing in the rules of the road that state that and you know it....you're just picking an argument now.
    Nobody is saying that you should endanger yourself.

    IMO the correct way to deal with these gobshites is:
    1: slow down (thus reducing the severity of getting rear-ended by them)
    2: When a suitable overtaking spot presents itself, remain slow and they will overtake you and become someone else's problem.
    3: Do not under any circumstances get upset with their ridiculous behaviour, the point and laugh approach is very satisfying. :D


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    #66
    lightening
    Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭lightening


    Joseph Kuhr wrote: »
    I should shove off the road to make way for a speeding motorist?

    That language is different than simply pulling in slightly to let a quicker driver by. I always pull in a little bit for faster cars and motorbikes. I have friends that are lifeboat men, nurses and doctors that are sometimes in a genuine rush to get to work.

    Sticking to the center line and not letting anyone pass you strikes me as being a little immature to be honest.

    I have never come across these flashing and beeping people to be honest.


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    #67
    Joseph Kuhr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭Joseph Kuhr


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    I'll still stop you for a chat and spot check, you'd expect it of a motorist going slower than you. You are not the road police. You have no right to drive. And if you continue to act the selfish jerk, you might lose your privileges some day. From the sounds of it, the sooner the better.

    You may stop me for a chat all you like my dear friend but thats all it will be because driving legally on the road is not an offense last time I checked. I'm sure you'll do your best to provoke me into an argument and arrest me for "giving lip".

    Making comments like this on a public forum as a representative of An Garda Siochana is not a very smart move.....you do not know who I am or what I do for a living.

    Speaking of rules, personal abuse is against the boards rules.


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    #68
    randomer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭randomer


    Joseph Kuhr wrote: »
    If the alternative is to put my life in danger pulling into a hard shoulder which is clearly not fit for driving on let alone driving on one at high speed or if there are bends in the road and I don't know what is around the corner, a tractor, cyclist, parked car, big fcuk off pot hole (the reasons for not pulling into a hard shoulder on Irish roads are endless) then yes I will stay put in my lane.

    How about on a multi lane road? If you were in the overtaking lane driving at the speed limit and someone attempted to get you to move by flashing their lights at you, would you consiously stay there to prevent them passing you, given that you are driving at the limit?

    Personally, if I was driving on a road with a hard shoulder and someone behind me was driving recklessly I would slow down and possibly even stop to allow them to pass me by. I much rather have reckless drivers ahead of me rather than behind me to be honest.


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    #69
    Ciaran500
    Registered Users Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    I'll still stop you for a chat and spot check, you'd expect it of a motorist going slower than you. You are not the road police. You have no right to drive. And if you continue to act the selfish jerk, you might lose your privileges some day. From the sounds of it, the sooner the better.

    EDIT: I don't expect you to drive in dangerous hard shoulders or around bends in the hard shoulder. I expect you to let other cars by when you have sufficient room to do so, and can do it in a safe manner according to your skills.

    WTF.

    You're saying that if you saw someone going at the speed limit and there was other people who wanted to break the speed limit caught behind him you would pull him over. Not only that your insulting him and hopes he loses his license for this. You sound like a great Garda.


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    #70
    cpoh1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭cpoh1


    The only times you should not pull into the hard shoulder to let a car overtake you (whatever the speed) are in my opinion, approaching a junction or entrance to houses, or on a bend. All other times are fair game. There is absolutely no excuse to not pull into the hard shoulder for 5 seconds on a nice open straight road with good visibility if a car behind wishes to make more progress than you. Why would someone have a problem with that?


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    #71
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users Posts: 17,399 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    cpoh1 wrote: »
    Why would someone have a problem with that?
    They would have a problem with that if they were ignorant and inconsiderate of other road users and expected to be allowed do what they want when they want.

    There's a lot of ignorant drivers out there and in my experience there's as many ignorant drivers driving within the law as there are breaking speed limits. Deliberate obstruction of other vehicles by refusing to allow them to overtake when it is safe to do so can lead to accidents and should be a crime.

    EDIT: The above comment is not directed at Joseph Kuhr...just in case anyone thinks it was. I know two people who have told me in the past that they deliberately sit in the overtaking lane driving a few kph under the speed limit just to 'annoy the boy racers' and 'piss off the execs in their Beemers and Audi's' respectively... :rolleyes:


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    #72
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    WTF.

    You're saying that if you saw someone going at the speed limit and there was other people who wanted to break the speed limit caught behind him you would pull him over. Not only that your insulting him and hopes he loses his license for this. You sound like a great Garda.

    I was referring to his habit of holding up other motorists. Just because his speedo tells him he's doing 100 kph doesn't mean its 100% accurate. We tolerate speeds above the posted, up to a limit, but someone who holds a queue of traffic behind them is a pain for everyone.

    I never said he was a bad driver, to me he could be the most skilled driver in the country, but that sort of attitude is not helpful, and I've come across it more in issuing fines than the helpful, considerate type.

    EDIT: Why would you care if I stopped an inconsiderate driver? It's only to help the progress of traffic behind them.


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    #73
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joseph Kuhr wrote: »
    If a driver wants to allow a vehicle to overtake. If I'm doing the legal speed limit and some smart arse tail gates me I will choose not to allow them to over take....my right as per the rules you have pointed out. If the hard shoulder is in rag order as most of them are there is no way I will pull into one at high speed. Thanks for backing up my point.
    Maybe its your phrasing of it but you should not "choose not to allow them to over take" - you have no right (within reason) to stop someone as they are driving.
    You can however, choose to not move onto the hard shoulder. It is regarded as polite to do so all the same and remember that if the "smart arse" tailgaiter is stuck behind you, your concentration on driving will be reduced and you will therefore be more likely to be involved in an incident (which will be made worse through the tailgaiters driving).


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    #74
    Joseph Kuhr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭Joseph Kuhr


    randomer wrote: »
    How about on a multi lane road? If you were in the overtaking lane driving at the speed limit and someone attempted to get you to move by flashing their lights at you, would you consiously stay there to prevent them passing you, given that you are driving at the limit?
    No if that was the case I would deserve a flash....but I still say it is idiotic to tail gate someone especially at high speed on a motorway.

    randomer wrote: »
    Personally, if I was driving on a road with a hard shoulder and someone behind me was driving recklessly I would slow down and possibly even stop to allow them to pass me by. I much rather have reckless drivers ahead of me rather than behind me to be honest.

    Yes I'd certainly ease off the accelerator and gently slow down a bit. If some idiot is threatening to ram me I'd rather get hit at 30kmph than 100kmph. If its a nice new dual carraigeway with no debris and a stragiht stretch of road I'd simply pull over without the need to slow down.

    My argument is when I feel it is not safe to do so and its my call not the guy behind me who is speeding and tail gating.


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    #75
    Joseph Kuhr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭Joseph Kuhr


    kbannon wrote: »
    Maybe its your phrasing of it but you should not "choose not to allow them to over take" - you have no right (within reason) to stop someone as they are driving.
    You can however, choose to not move onto the hard shoulder. It is regarded as polite to do so all the same and remember that if the "smart arse" tailgaiter is stuck behind you, your concentration on driving will be reduced and you will therefore be more likely to be involved in an incident (which will be made worse through the tailgaiters driving).

    that wording was taken directly from the rules of the road...


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    #76
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Just a reminder to everyone that there will not be handbags at dawn over this thread - let the emotions calm down before posting.


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    #77
    randomer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭randomer


    Joseph Kuhr wrote: »
    My argument is when I feel it is not safe to do so and its my call not the guy behind me who is speeding and tail gating.

    If the person behind is speeding and tailgaiting, then surely you are also speeding? ;)


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    #78
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    The amount of you that give out about tractor drivers hogging the road and not pulling in to the hard shoulder. Their reason must also be because it's dangerous?! Is it?

    People speed / tailgate / act the bollix. Instead of trying to control their actions, just pull in a couple of feet and let the muppets pass you.


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    #79
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Joseph Kuhr wrote: »
    You may stop me for a chat all you like my dear friend but thats all it will be because driving legally on the road is not an offense last time I checked. I'm sure you'll do your best to provoke me into an argument and arrest me for "giving lip".

    Making comments like this on a public forum as a representative of An Garda Siochana is not a very smart move.....you do not know who I am or what I do for a living.

    Speaking of rules, personal abuse is against the boards rules.

    If you are deliberately holding up other traffic then it's illegal.

    Section 9 of the ROAD TRAFFIC (TRAFFIC AND PARKING) REGULATIONS, 1997 has this to say on the subject:
    9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.


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    #80
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users Posts: 17,399 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    kbannon wrote: »
    Just a reminder to everyone that there will not be handbags at dawn over this thread - let the emotions calm down before posting.

    Dammit kbannon, I had my new Louis Vitton ready for this thread and now you go and spoil it :( Bargain, €25 on Thomas street :)


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    #81
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joseph Kuhr wrote: »
    that wording was taken directly from the rules of the road...
    maybe then provide a source where it says that you can choose to not allow them to pass.
    All that I can find is the previously quoted piece where is says that you can choose to allow them to pass - quite a different thing altogether! What you are saying is effectively blocking them!


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    #82
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    Joseph Kuhr wrote: »
    You may stop me for a chat all you like my dear friend but thats all it will be because driving legally on the road is not an offense last time I checked. I'm sure you'll do your best to provoke me into an argument and arrest me for "giving lip".

    Making comments like this on a public forum as a representative of An Garda Siochana is not a very smart move.....you do not know who I am or what I do for a living.

    Speaking of rules, personal abuse is against the boards rules.

    I am not a representative of AGS nor do I purport to be such. I cannot arrest anyone for giving lip and I do not arrest people for holding up traffic, nor do I issue tickets for it 99% of the time. Blatantly ignoring the masses of cars behind you coupled with a holier than thou attitude might get you a spell in our car having a long chat, before being allowed to continue merrily on your way.

    My earlier comment about your license was related to the attitudes we encounter with regular offenders.


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    #83
    Ciaran500
    Registered Users Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    EDIT: Why would you care if I stopped an inconsiderate driver? It's only to help the progress of traffic behind them.

    Cause I don't like the idea of a Garda harassing someone because they have decided the dricing is inconveniencing drivers who want to break the speed limits.


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    #84
    cornbb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    lightening wrote: »
    "In one case, the driver in front was brow beaten by the flashing lights, close-to-rear-bumper driving and horn honking of a brat in an '07-reg Golf Gti"

    This hardly happened on a single lane road? It would take overtaking lane driving for anyone to react like that. Its a pity the article isn't a bit clearer. (I suspect mr. Cunningham is slightly exagerrating in fairness, horn honking?)

    Nope, the exact same thing happened to me (well, it was a Merc driver) over the weekend on a single-carriageway road with very narrow hard shoulders. I was already over the limit, what did the fúcker expect me to do? :mad:


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    #85
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    Dammit kbannon, I had my new Louis Vitton ready for this thread and now you go and spoil it :( Bargain, €25 on Thomas street :)
    Sorry - maybe we can set up a boards motors-handbags meet!
    In the meantime, head over to http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=464


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    #86
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    Cause I don't like the idea of a Garda harassing someone because they have decided the dricing is inconveniencing drivers who want to break the speed limits.

    I don't usually stop people for this you know. There are far more important things to do. Blatant offenders, with like 12 cars behind them might get a tug if they've been driving beside a big hard shoulder on a very good road. It's just good manners and we nearly always let them off merrily on their way if they are anyway reasonable.


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    #87
    lightening
    Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭lightening


    cornbb wrote: »
    Nope, the exact same thing happened to me (well, it was a Merc driver) over the weekend on a single-carriageway road

    Ah.. fair enough cornbb. I haven't come across this.


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    #88
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    Ciaran500 wrote: »
    Cause I don't like the idea of a Garda harassing someone because they have decided the dricing is inconveniencing drivers who want to break the speed limits.

    Are you serious?! look at his post again:
    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    EDIT: Why would you care if I stopped an inconsiderate driver? It's only to help the progress of traffic behind them.

    He's talking about speaking to somebody who is blatently holding up traffic by not making enough progress.


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    #89
    cornbb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    Hey Steve, the problem is that he wasn't doing anything really illegal, and a judge would go very easy on him.

    The only way to fix this issue is to create two new offences, ideally as below (IMO)

    1. Driving at a speed considered too low for the prevailing conditions (e.g. 20 kph below the posted limit) - €80 and 2 pts, €250 on conviction and 4 pts.
    2. On a motorway or dual-carriageway - Keep left unless overtaking, €500 fine and 6 pts ticket. Sounds harsh, but will not be needed for long once people cop on.


    These three steps could lead to a serious reduction in tailgating and road rage. :)

    I have a serious problem with this. Road-hoggers piss me off as much as everyone else, and I can recognise that slow drivers can be a danger, but shouldn't we be thinking about penalising those who are actively driving dangerously (e.g. tailgaters, people overtaking around corners) rather than those who may be provoking others into driving dangerously? You've mentioned "having a chat" with slow drivers/lane hoggers several times on this thread, what have your experiences with people who tailgate and people who overtake around blind corners been?

    People do not just tailgate when they are being held up by the way, I've been tailgated while on the left lane of a dual carriageway when the moron behind me had ample room to pass. The mind boggles.


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    #90
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,395 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Re: moving into the hard shoulder I posted about this several times in old posts. Not going to repeat myself so here are the links.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51706470&postcount=109
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51899504&postcount=86
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53183611&postcount=102

    Although the ROTR has changed slightly with the most recent update it is just as wishy washy as the old versions when it comes to advising drivers on hard shoulder usage.

    PS I'd have my doubts as to whether Marcus.Aurelius is an actual Garda. In several recent posts he claimed to be a PhD biologist.


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    #91
    Ciaran500
    Registered Users Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    elviscostello wrote: »
    Are you serious?! look at his post again:

    He's talking about speaking to somebody who is blatently holding up traffic by not making enough progress.

    He was responding to someone who said he was driving at the speed limit.


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