Airsoft News [READ FIRST POST BEFORE POSTING]

Hande hoche!

A Chinese company seems to have come out with the older slim type
foregrip for the MP5 series.
http://www.airsoft-war4.com/details.php?pid=5398

Floodric

With regards Mk.23 MG, am I wrong in thinking that Version 2 gear boxes cant really do constant fire? Is that not the point of a LMG?

Captain Chaos

Floodric wrote: »

Is that not the point of a LMG?

Constant burst fire yes, constand stream of fire, no.
Ideally you want another LMG gunner, them between both firing bursts you can lay down nearly constant fire.

Puding

Floodric wrote: »

With regards Mk.23 MG, am I wrong in thinking that Version 2 gear boxes cant really do constant fire? Is that not the point of a LMG?

depends on a lot of factors, the v2 is not the perfect gearbox for a support roll, all you need to do is take a little bit of care with setting it up, you need to balance performance to get the reliability, at the 1 joule limit with a sensible rof your not going to have an issue

Hivemind187

Floodric wrote: »

With regards Mk.23 MG, am I wrong in thinking that Version 2 gear boxes cant really do constant fire? Is that not the point of a LMG?

As the lads have said you shouldnt be looking for a constant stream of fire, just reasonably sustained bursts.

I've heard the US Army trains their support gunners to time the lengths of the their bursts by reciting something (rumor has it the eusual words are along the lines o "Die Motherf*cker Die! - which is nice and subtle). If you keep to that you'll find your gear box will handle the strain.

Remember: you're primary roll with a support gun is supression and area denial. You're not going for kills, you're trying to tie up the enemy while your own team press the advantage.

Floodric

I understand that its not a constant stream you're after, but I just dont see what sets it out apart from your average AEG. Is it just ROF and looking pretty? I came across a few M249s in my short history of skirmishing and one thing I noticed is that they're like hoses, and the users were holding down the trigger longer than it takes to say "die mother fcuker die".

Just wondering if the Stoner is actually suited to be a support AEG, or is it just for looking ridiculously good looking?

NakedDex

Simply put, there are very few people in airsoft who actually use a support gun of any description - LSW, LMG, MG or HMG - in the proper capacity. No single-barrelled automatic weapon is designed to lay down constant streams of endless fire. There's a wealth of phyiscs that says it just can't happen. Extended bursts, sure, if there's a cooling system, but not empty-the-ammo-box-in-one-trigger-pull bursts.
The majority of airsoft support gun users tend to think that having a box of 3000 rounds strapped to their gun means they have carte blanch to sandblast anything and everything, with scant regard for effective tactics, or even accuracy. I can't count how many times I've heard users say things like "I have thousands of bb's in the boxmag, I don't even need to aim!".

Don't take your previous experiences playing with/against M249 users as how support guns are supposed to be used. Both the M249 and the Stoner in question are designed for in-squad support, firing short bursts to suppress the enemy targets while a co-ordinating fire team attack said targets or change position.

ZeroSignal

NakedDex wrote: »

...
The majority of airsoft support gun users tend to think that having a box of 3000 rounds strapped to their gun means they have carte blanch to sandblast anything and everything, with scant regard for effective tactics, or even accuracy. I can't count how many times I've heard users say things like "I have thousands of bb's in the boxmag, I don't even need to aim!"...

I've actually come across entire teams with that exact attitude. XD

Puding

in most skirmish its just a large aeg with a box mag, even if you want to it is very hard to play that 'support roll' in your typical sunday skirmish, becomes a little bit more likely with an organized team but unless you and the opposition are both playing from the same play book you do not get the most from them

they only truly get to become support weapons in an event where the rule set allows, where a strict ammo limit is in place and roles are in place, otherwise it is just an over sized aeg with a box mag

in real life your looking at 3 or 4 round burst ( aids accuracy , stops heat build up and barrels wearing out to fast, that kinda thing ) in airsoft of course things are a little different but still some interesting things to consider in terms of reliability ( using burst, tuning in the right rof, support weapon does not instantly mean a super fast rof some would argue the other way ) the aeg does not define the role , rather the mind set of the player

Hivemind187

Puding wrote: »

in most skirmish its just a large aeg with a box mag, even if you want to it is very hard to play that 'support roll' in your typical sunday skirmish, becomes a little bit more likely with an organized team but unless you and the opposition are both playing from the same play book you do not get the most from them

they only truly get to become support weapons in an event where the rule set allows, where a strict ammo limit is in place and roles are in place, otherwise it is just an over sized aeg with a box mag

Its a shame about that really. The gearboxes on some of the support guns out there are reinforced and better able to handle the the stress of extended fire but the "White Line" of bb's approach will still burn the motor out eventually.

Puding

well the m249 shell is arguably the best in terms of strength but all that means is the shell is strong, internals are still the same as you can put in a v2 or v3 for example, high rof means more maintenance and shortens the life span of components, most series support gunner for example will know the life span of for example the piston in a gearbox, i know guys that will regularly swap out components every 25 - 30k rounds because they know that there set up will last say 40k rounds

Firekitten

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Its a shame about that really. The gearboxes on some of the support guns out there are reinforced and better able to handle the the stress of extended fire but the "White Line" of bb's approach will still burn the motor out eventually.

As has just happened to the mighty Lemming's pig o'war today... (when I ran through 3000 rounds fighting off attacking types *whistles innocently*)

The reinforced box is vital for a true support gun, though 'real' role, is useless in airsoft, where everyone fires auto, the simple act of bursts, isnt supressing any more than an mp5k with a snail mag.

Lemming

Firekitten wrote: »

though 'real' role, is useless in airsoft, where everyone fires auto, the simple act of bursts

I will disagree with this, completely.

Knowing how to use a support gun also requires that at least some of your team also understand how to take advantage of a support-gunner. It's all fine and well laying down suppressive fire (by that I do not simply mean "bb hose") on an enemy position, but if your team makes no attempt to either manoeuvre unmolested either away or towards said target well then there's not much for it. I've had a few occasions (not just in skirmish games) where I've had to try and take point whilst also trying to suppress because my team are simply not with the program and/or have suddenly discovered that somebody put superglue on the soles of their boots.

As for burst fire vs. mp5k .... there is a psychological effect of going up against a support gun, being handled by somebody who knows what they're about. They essentially have a box mag, and are both prudent enough and conservative enough with their ammo whilst being effective to not have to worry about needing to reload in the immediate future, whilst mp5k holder typically hasn't a notion about themselves and WILL need to change that mag a lot sooner. Any benefits they may have are rapidly negated by their typical behavioural patterns. If you start adding ammo restrictions into the mix for milsim (be it 'lite or hardcore variants), the benefits of support guns become very much more apparent.


As for the Stoner; it's a support gun the length of a carbine and not much heavier (which is why in part, the SEALS loved it in Vietnam). The advantages it affords should be obvious. Ok, so there's no bipod provided by G&P but there are ways to work around that. Those advantages may not be quite so obvious at a walk-on skirmish, but for any sort of ammo-restricted game .....

TNTQ

Somehow I missed this before....:pac:



Seriously liking the look of this M14 bull-pup - think I may try and make 1

http://www.shortrifles.com/photo_gallery.htm

Edit: Sorry - forgot didn't say it was RS - Didn't know where to stick it and doesn't really warrant a thread

Firekitten

Lemming wrote: »

I will disagree with this, completely.

Knowing how to use a support gun also requires that at least some of your team also understand how to take advantage of a support-gunner. It's all fine and well laying down suppressive fire (by that I do not simply mean "bb hose") on an enemy position, but if your team makes no attempt to either manoeuvre unmolested either away or towards said target well then there's not much for it. I've had a few occasions (not just in skirmish games) where I've had to try and take point whilst also trying to suppress because my team are simply not with the program and/or have suddenly discovered that somebody put superglue on the soles of their boots.

As for burst fire vs. mp5k .... there is a psychological effect of going up against a support gun, being handled by somebody who knows what they're about. They essentially have a box mag, and are both prudent enough and conservative enough with their ammo whilst being effective to not have to worry about needing to reload in the immediate future, whilst mp5k holder typically hasn't a notion about themselves and WILL need to change that mag a lot sooner. Any benefits they may have are rapidly negated by their typical behavioural patterns. If you start adding ammo restrictions into the mix for milsim (be it 'lite or hardcore variants), the benefits of support guns become very much more apparent.


As for the Stoner; it's a support gun the length of a carbine and not much heavier (which is why in part, the SEALS loved it in Vietnam). The advantages it affords should be obvious. Ok, so there's no bipod provided by G&P but there are ways to work around that. Those advantages may not be quite so obvious at a walk-on skirmish, but for any sort of ammo-restricted game .....

(ok really off topic)
By 'not practical' i mean, as i said, in games where everyone is spraying full auto. One burst is the same as another. Technique may apply, but its of little real difference. In a game where people are watching ammo, and operating more tacticaly than spraysoft, its utterly devestating however.

Stonewolf

TNTQ wrote: »

Somehow I missed this before....:pac:



Seriously liking the look of this M14 bull-pup - think I may try and make 1

http://www.shortrifles.com/photo_gallery.htm

Edit: Sorry - forgot didn't say it was RS - Didn't know where to stick it and doesn't really warrant a thread

Reminds me a bit of the Morita from Starship Troopers (which was a bullpup M14). I had a poke around the site and it appears to be a stock swap. The WE M14 it's said accepts RS stocks so you could probably order one for use on one of those.

Steve

Folks - if you want to chat, start a new thread or go to the off-topic thread please, this thread is for news.

richieffff

This is definably new to me not sure if its new or not though :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkB3d0qbeGA

Got this from redwolf's facebook page

EDIT: its a scar in a masada body humf.......

whydave

not realy airsoft ....yet check out page 11

Bernie Mac

Echo1 Robinson XCR up on airsoft gi on pre-order

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=7652

TNTQ

Bernie Mac wrote: »

Echo1 Robinson XCR up on airsoft gi on pre-order

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=7652

She's a re-branded VFC, so she should be quality. Trying my damnedest to get one for myself to no avail...yet :pac:

Bernie Mac

TNTQ wrote: »

She's a re-branded VFC, so she should be quality. Trying my damnedest to get one for myself to no avail...yet :pac:

I had thought madbull were making one. I remember seeing it on one of their advertising posters in AI ages ago, I was surprised Echo1 got there first

NakedDex

Firekitten

Ugh, what a fugly little gun.... I bet they make a tan version...

TNTQ

Firekitten wrote: »

Ugh, what a fugly little gun.... I bet they make a tan version...

Puding

viva arms products from red world

mg34
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=45475&id=152169401503776&fbid=157407620979954

zb-26
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=45471&id=152169401503776&fbid=157406074313442

Carentan Killer

Now they are some beautiful machineguns
I would love the mg34

I like the look of the VFC XCR it reminds me of a PDW crossed with a scar & sopmod m4
I like the stock on it too and the HK416 type sights :cool:

I have to agree say that M14 bullpup looks Fugly
I love M14's, M14 EBR's but just not that M14 bullpup

hightower1

Carentan Killer wrote: »

I have to agree that M14 bullpup looks Fugly
I love M14's, M14 EBR's but just not that M14 bullpup

Agree? I dont think anyone mentioned the bullpup m14 was ugly? In fact i think it looks quite nice....

the XCR on the other hand people have quoted that its a horrific looking gun. Looks like it couldnt decide what it was so just slaps random aspects of the competition (for the next gen main weapons platform by the DOD which it got disqualified from) and came out looking like a mess.

Carentan Killer

hightower1 wrote: »

Agree? I dont think anyone mentioned the bullpup m14 was ugly? In fact i think it looks quite nice....

the XCR on the other hand people have quoted that its a horrific looking gun. Looks like it couldnt decide what it was so just slaps random aspects of the competition (for the next gen main weapons platform by the DOD which it got disqualified from) and came out looking like a mess.

Well I agree with myself then I guess :rolleyes: I do think the bullpup M14 looks ugly as sin - thats my opinion on it anyway.
I don't hate bullpup rifles either if thats what you may be thinking
I like the Aug A1, L85A2, Type 97 but weirdly hate the styling of the F2000 :eek:

I think the XCR looks cool -> again my opinion on it.

But as they say to each to there own, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that..

MagicIRL

TNTQ wrote: »

<XCR pic>

Bernie Mac wrote: »

Echo1 Robinson XCR up on airsoft gi on pre-order

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=7652

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lN7TGkOuy8&feature=player_embedded