Making a living with career & online poker- Viable?

CHD

God speed

consultech

Cheers for the kind words...

consultech wrote: »

Ill be donkin it up in the 40+5 in the jackpot tonight

hahaha - In spectacularly ironic fashion Im sitting at my desk in work after getting all of 70 minutes sleep! - I finished 4th in this last night/this morning (bout 60 runners AFAIK), getting out of there at about 4:30am. Let's see how long I can keep this double-career up!!!

Nah I'm pretty happy with the way I played, if not a wee bit nittilly. Only got it in as an underdog once with 22 v 33 at final table after I isolated her extremely shortstacked all-in (2.5 BB's) and spiked a deuce on the river :rolleyes: Also had my AA cracked by JJ AIPF for bout 20% my stack etc etc.

2nd in chips 5 handed I reckoned I was on course for a top-two finish, plus entry to the sattelite for 500NE event, but biggest turning point came at 2000/4000 when I raised first in from SB with A4s and got a caller in BB. He had been playing pretty loose/3-betting his edges (AK x 2/QQ I think) pre-flop a bit, and I had been a bit busy from late position with A-small etc, but showing decent hands like AJs/99/AK 3 of the times when not called.

(Pot 30k) Flop K-4-2 rag. I lead for Half pot, he min-raises (We both have about 45/50k left). In hindsight I think I made the right laydown, still had about 30k left, and I hadn't seen this kind of apparent value-raising from him before. He showed A9 afterwards anyway. Had he shoved my line may have been different (?). He played the other stack sizes well though, there were 2 with less than me left.

Onwards and upwards anyway, no 4-tabling tonight methinks...

Lao Lao

consultech wrote: »

Once again - Cheers for the thoughts lads...

Im well-aware it's a serious strain playing for a living when it's ur only income, and your opinion on the game changes dramatically - Ive a couple of mates who play online for a living, one of which got me into poker.

I think what will (hopefully) differentiate me is that Ill have a solid (hopefully quite ample) income on the side from my career, and as such will hopefully serve to keep making money from poker a novel thing. This is something that my mates don't have, and is probably what their respective frustrations with poker as a "job" can be attributed to.

Make no bones about it, Im not playing for money currently at all. - However, eventually, because Ill have money coming in on the reg from elsewhere, I would hope that I will be playing to learn for a long time before Im playing to earn. From what I can gauge from personal and 2nd hand-opinion, this seems to be a pretty important concept; Either playing for money, or playing for experience.

All very idealistic but Ive gotta have a goal I suppose. Ill be donkin it up in the 40+5 in the jackpot tonight in a grey hoodie/Jack Daniel's T-Shirt (carnation possibly) if anyone is there with an opinion...

Cheers, Mark.

Did you get moved to table 3, seat 1 last night in the Jackpot and then get paid off very nicely when you held KQ on your SB on a flop of 910J??

If so, I was in seat 3 at the time, red t-shirt and glasses.

Good luck with the plan, I'll say hello next time I see ya

Brian

Chucky the tree

consultech wrote: »

My question is:

Is it viable in the current climate/state of the online poker industry? I'm not too au fait with the Us's situation - But is online poker illegal now over there??? i.e. Traditional Fishiepool gone byebye?

Can some of the reg "pro's" advise me as to how practical my plan is, and what stakes/sites would be the best course for my plan?

Thanks in advance!

Consultech.

I honestly dont know the in and outs of it, but online poker isnt illegal I just think your not banks are allowed transfer money to and from online gambling sites, thats why it difficult to get money on-line. In some states it might be illegal but the vast majority it isnt.


I am going on figures for FR, but someone could easily earn 6k a month from NL 100-NL 200 and you dont even have great or even close to the top player in at your level. Alot of full time guys just play 100-200NL and mass multi-table.

If you get good rakeback/bonuses this will be a huge help and earning $100k a year wont be at all unrealistic.


Now I am not saying quit your job tomorrow and go gamble it up. I'd keep the job now, study and play part time then when you reach 100NL and if you feel you can beat it easily enough then quit. Your at the perfect age to give it a try. You have no wife,kids or mortgage( I presume anyway).You havent been in your job long, so it's not like you are hugely committed to it.

Also, loads of people take years out from there jobs to go traveling so this is no different, if you find out you dont like it/you arent good enough you can go back and get job.


Anyway best of luck in deciding what you do.

mdwexford

Make 60 buyins a month easily at 100nl and not even be very good, lol i doubt it.

cooker3

mdwexford wrote: »

Make 60 buyins a month easily at 100nl and not even be very good, lol i doubt it.

Yeah I was wondering that myself, pretty optimistic

Chucky the tree

mdwexford wrote: »

Make 60 buyins a month easily at 100nl and not even be very good, lol i doubt it.

I meant to say if you can play NL 100 and 200. But even at NL 100 it's not too hard.I aslo edited the very good part to make it a bit clearer aswell cos I didnt word it great.



Here's the stats of one of the 100NL players on 2+2.





considering most full time FR players hit at least 100k hands a month you dont need a massive win rate to make it.

Ste05

Chucky the tree wrote: »

considering most full time FR players hit at least 100k hands a month you dont need a massive win rate to make it.

LOL, no they don't!!

And making 6k a month at 100NL is bloody hard. Either you have to be really good and run well, or have the ability to put in crazy hours and massively multi-table. Both not skills you can pick up at a heart beat.

Don't delude yourself, making 6k a month from Poker is very difficult.

digiman

Chucky the tree wrote: »

study and play part time then when you reach 100NL and if you feel you can beat it easily enough then quit. Your at the perfect age to give it a try.

To quit your job because you can beat 100nl would be crazy. Usually you will find that for someone who is playing 100k hands a month they don't have a very high win-rate so just because you see someone with 5.5BB/100 doesn't mean they would sustain that for 100k hands a month, would more likely be something like 1.5-2BB/100 which would be pretty good in itself.

Quitting your job because you can beat 1knl would be a lot better advice imo, and even then if I could beat 1knl I wouldn't give up my job either.

Also playing 100nl should just be a stepping stone to going to higher limits as well. The best thing to do would be just to play poker for an extra few euro every month that you can spend on stuff that you wouldn't normally buy.

phantom_lord

if i break 30k hands a month i'm feeling pretty satisfied!

Chucky the tree

Ste05 wrote: »

LOL, no they don't!!

And making 6k a month at 100NL is bloody hard. Either you have to be really good and run well, or have the ability to put in crazy hours and massively multi-table. Both not skills you can pick up at a heart beat.

Don't delude yourself, making 6k a month from Poker is very difficult.

eh, yes they do.

here's the link to the july/august goals result thread on the 100NL-200NL forum, have at look at the hands they made/ plan to get too. Most of them will hit that.


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=263860

digiman, double his hands and keep his win rate the same, thats still 3.9k he's made before you include bonuses/rakeback.

digiman

Chucky the tree wrote: »

digiman, double his hands and keep his win rate the same, thats still 3.9k he's made before you include bonuses/rakeback.

I think what you are failing to see is 5.65BB/100 is practically unsustainable for 99.99% of 100nl players and if it is they should be playing 200nl. Double the amount of hands he plays at the same time and his win-rate will probably half or even 1/3 of what it is now! If you ask any of the players that played 100nl on here, I severely doubt any of them had a win-rate of over 5BB/100 for more than 100k hands.

Chucky the tree

digiman wrote: »

I think what you are failing to see is 5.65BB/100 is practically unsustainable for 99.99% of 100nl players and if it is they should be playing 200nl. Double the amount of hands he plays at the same time and his win-rate will probably half or even 1/3 of what it is now! If you ask any of the players that played 100nl on here, I severely doubt any of them had a win-rate of over 5BB/100 for more than 100k hands.

Yes I know. But if you double the hands and he breaks even for the next 30k hands, He'll still have won 3k but his BB/100 will of been halfed.

mdwexford

phantom_lord wrote: »

if i break 30k hands a month i'm feeling pretty satisfied!

True story.

phantom_lord

Chucky the tree wrote: »

eh, yes they do.

here's the link to the july/august goals result thread on the 100NL-200NL forum, have at look at the hands they made/ plan to get too. Most of them will hit that.


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=263860

digiman, double his hands and keep his win rate the same, thats still 3.9k he's made before you include bonuses/rakeback.

sounds like hell, i much rather have a job than do that.

Ste05

Chucky the tree wrote: »

eh, yes they do.

here's the link to the july/august goals result thread on the 100NL-200NL forum, have at look at the hands they made/ plan to get too. Most of them will hit that.


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=263860

What are you talking about, I saw exactly 1 graph that showed 100k hands. People can write anything they want.

You really shouldn't delude yourself, 100k hands is a HUGE amount of work.

Consistently making 6k a month at 100NL is almost unheard of. Anyone that can do that moves up and is very good at Poker. Or is lying.

Macspower

have to agree with you on that one Ste...

I was playing about 50 k a month most months at 100 and 200nl and played 70 k hands one month and nearly fried my brain.... I was playing 16 tables constantly to hit the 72 k and broke even from play for the month... anyone making 6 k in amonth at 100 nl would be automatically moving up next month I would say...

Chucky the tree

phantom_lord wrote: »

sounds like hell, i much rather have a job than do that.

Meh, depends what your idea of hell is. 18 tables four hours a day for 24 days or so and your there.


Apologies ste, not excactly 100k hands. 4 or 5 80K+ graphs. but the winrates on the players who didnt make 100k arent bad. Also, I am talking aobut doing it at NL100 and NL 200.





Spend his time between $100 NL and $200NL and only beat it for 1.79BB/100

Ste05

Have you ever played 18 tables though? It's not just sitting down for 4 hours and then finishing up. The mental strain of 4 hours of 18 tabling is crazy. I've never done it and I'm multi-tabling for years. It's a really difficult skill to be able to master.

Take this as an example, 18 tables @ say 80 hands per table hour is 1440 hands per hour. Say on average every hand involves 2 decisions. (at least 1 and upto 6 or 7) which is 2880 decisions an hour. There's 3600 seconds an hour. So that means you are having to make at least one decision every 1.25 seconds.

Can you remain on top of your game having to make expensive and important pressurised decisions every 1.25 seconds for 4 hours?

I really can't explain just how difficult this is. Even just physically clicking the correct button once every 1.25 seconds can take it out of you.

You have 1.25 seconds to look at your cards, see what's happened before you make a decision (most will be to fold), click the button and move onto the next hand. Then if you're involved in a hand and have your time bank to try and think out your decision, while also repeating this constantly on the other 17 tables and then making the correct decision. Hopefully I'm beginning to get through it's not like sitting down to play a few MTT's on a Sunday night. It's like this every day, every week, every month, etc. etc. EDIT: to grind out $4-5k or €2.7-3.5k (or €675 -€900 a week).

cooker3

Yeah if I am 4-6 tabling for more then 2 hours I completely lose it. It would take an insane amount of concentration for 100k hands.
And as for argument about well you work 8 hours everyday so 2 hours is nothing. I've worked various jobs in different areas and done a couple of 17 hour shifts. Your concentration levels in a normal job are not a patch on what they have to be while playing poker well

digiman

In other words mass multitabling 100nl is an extremely tough way to make a decent living!

Ste05

digiman wrote: »

In other words mass multitabling 100nl is an extremely tough way to make a semi-decent living!

Just fixed that up for you. ~€600 (after tax) a week is the average industrial wage in Ireland at the minute.

Chucky the tree

Ste05 wrote: »

Have you ever played 18 tables though? It's not just sitting down for 4 hours and then finishing up. The mental strain of 4 hours of 18 tabling is crazy. I've never done it and I'm multi-tabling for years. It's a really difficult skill to be able to master.

Take this as an example, 18 tables @ say 80 hands per table hour is 1440 hands per hour. Say on average every hand involves 2 decisions. (at least 1 and upto 6 or 7) which is 2880 decisions an hour. There's 3600 seconds an hour. So that means you are having to make at least one decision every 1.25 seconds.

Can you remain on top of your game having to make expensive and important pressurised decisions every 1.25 seconds for 4 hours?

I really can't explain just how difficult this is. Even just physically clicking the correct button once every 1.25 seconds can take it out of you.

You have 1.25 seconds to look at your cards, see what's happened before you make a decision (most will be to fold), click the button and move onto the next hand. Then if you're involved in a hand and have your time bank to try and think out your decision, while also repeating this constantly on the other 17 tables and then making the correct decision. Hopefully I'm beginning to get through it's not like sitting down to play a few MTT's on a Sunday night. It's like this every day, every week, every month, etc. etc. EDIT: to grind out $4-5k or €2.7-3.5k (or €675 -€900 a week).

Nope, never 18 tables but it's usually 12 and I dont find it a massive struggle, But 18 could be a significant jump. Doubt you'd reach 80 hands an hour, probaly about 60-65 on the fast tables at stars but it usually 50-55 on ipoker.

With things like AHK scripts and 2 montiors I dont think 18 tabling would be a massive struggle. I know some people at the lower levels at NL 50 can 24 table and still win at a very impressive rate which isnt bad at all.

Edit: found his stats for july

digiman

Ste05 wrote: »

Just fixed that up for you. ~€600 (after tax) a week is the average industrial wage in Ireland at the minute.

I was looking more at the €950/week end of it!!! But even still no way I would do it for that either.

consultech

Ste05 wrote: »

Just fixed that up for you. ~€600 (after tax) a week is the average industrial wage in Ireland at the minute.

Average salary is c. €40-45k????

Ste05

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it was €35k before Tax

consultech

Ste05 wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it was €35k before Tax

35k p.a. is €673 a week before tax

Ste05

Yeah but Poker winnings are tax free, so you need to compare like with like, i.e. After Tax earnings.

NickyOD

I'm 8-10 tabling STTs atm and I can't imagine how it could be physically possible to play more than 12 tables without having a nervous breakdown, especially shorthanded cash any site other than Stars of FT.

NickyOD

Ste05 wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it was €35k before Tax

Yes you are correct.