Solar panels in the sunny south east

garrser

First post ever so go easy on me!

I live in Tramore i.e. in the "sunny" south east, and what with the rising cost of fuel and heating, am seriously considering installing solar panels on the roof (which is more or less south facing and not blocked by next door).

I know there is another thread over on another forum for this topic, and there are a load of sites dedicated to the subject, but I would like to hear from others in the south east who have installed or are about to install solar paneling.

How is your experience with the things i.e. are they any good?
Is anyone using them for heating or just hot water?
Can you recommend any good contractors from the area?
How did it work out with the grants?
Is there any place in the Waterford area where you can go to get independent advice?

Cheers, garrser

Poor Uncle Tom

I am going to put solar panels (tubes) onto my south facing roof surface and a stainless two or three coiled tank (don't know if I will link the stove or not). I have worked out that these will provide a saving of approx €650 to €850 per year depending on oil prices. This means a payback in 7 years with the current grant. The grant is currently only available for retro fit.

Any good, reputible plumber should be able to advise you. If you are near Dungarvan, go to the Industrial Park at Shandon, along the road from the Fire Station. Find the unit of Mike Edwards, brochures, details of solar, geothermal, wind, etc.,

I've chosen a friend of mine to install the panels, he is a very good plumber who is about to set up his own business setting up these systems full time. He sourses his materials from a Cork supplier.

Anyway good luck with your fit out.

garrser

Many thanks Uncle Tom.

Those are pretty good savings you calculated. Can you briefly describe how you worked them out? I would be delighted if I could achieve similar cost reductions..

BTW In the winter our heating and hot water is oil fueled, with the immersion on for hot water in the summer. Do you have a similar setup?

Thanks again, garrser

JMcL

To qualify for the grant, the system must be installed by an SEI approved installer. There's a list of these on the SEI website

Poor Uncle Tom

garrser wrote: »

Many thanks Uncle Tom.

Can you briefly describe how you worked them out? I would be delighted if I could achieve similar cost reductions..

BTW In the winter our heating and hot water is oil fueled, with the immersion on for hot water in the summer. Do you have a similar setup?

My house originally started out as a cottage which I first extended in 1995 and again in 2000 as needs dictated. The house is 3,500 sqft and is spread out to suit the site, so the house can be worked in two sections. My primary heat sourse is oil fired boiler, but I have two seperate immersion cylinders, one is also connected to a back boiler and the other system to a stove. For me the back boiler works fantastically because I put the cylinder in a press in a dormer room directly over the fireplace so it has a very short draw, piping hot to the cylinder and pumped directly to the rads, very efficient, from cold the rads are hot within 45 minutes of lighting the fire only.

Anyway when the fires are not lighting I use the oil boiler. I fill the tank 2.5 times a year on average. I have worked out with my plumber that the solar will save me approx 30% on my hot water/heating bills, this is how I worked out my costs. It will be different for everyone and very dependant on your house size, design and orientation. But you should talk to someone in the field and work out your savings.

My next project is to adapt the oil boiler for bio-fuel usage, there should be good savings here too, big difference in the cost per litre.

garrser

Thanks John for the list. The grant is obviously a very important factor..

And thanks Uncle Tom for the detailed description of your setup. You are obviously an expert hand at heating and building etc. Respect! My house would be about half the size of yours, so I suspect I wont be able to achieve quite the same level of savings. But I will as you recommend get in contact with someone who can give me some indication as to my potential oil and electricity reductions.

Thanks again, garrser

garrser

Is there anyone out there from the south east who has solar panels up and running? Would be very interested to hear of your experience (good and bad) with the things...

Cheers, garrser

JLemmon

A friend of mine was heavily into this and even installed a few but with experience he found that between mid-end march up to mid october you got really hot water and lots of it but for the winter months this dropped considerably. I know less daylight etc.. but the heat wasn't in the water to the same extent and thus with low heat and low volumes of warm water it was necessary to use the oil or gas heating or immersion just as before in the winter so nothing really was gained bar small saving on electric bill (i.e. on the shower) but not enough to justify the initial outlay.
I don't know really what to believe on this stuff but I'm sure it's handy in the spring summer months, just don't shower or wash in winter

garrser

Thanks JLemmon, especially for the winter washing tip!

But your point is a very good one. If I will have to use just as much oil as before in the wintertime, I'm not really going to save very much in the way of fuel reductions.

Anyone else out there who has solar paneling up and running?

PS According to an article in last weeks News and Star "Solar energy becomes way of life in Waterford", with a reported 150 solar water installations completed up to June 2008. Anyone know where all these installations are? I must admit I haven't seen very many of them...

JMcL

JLemmon wrote: »

A friend of mine was heavily into this and even installed a few but with experience he found that between mid-end march up to mid october you got really hot water and lots of it but for the winter months this dropped considerably. I know less daylight etc.. but the heat wasn't in the water to the same extent and thus with low heat and low volumes of warm water it was necessary to use the oil or gas heating or immersion just as before in the winter so nothing really was gained bar small saving on electric bill (i.e. on the shower) but not enough to justify the initial outlay.
I don't know really what to believe on this stuff but I'm sure it's handy in the spring summer months, just don't shower or wash in winter

From my understanding (we're looking at putting panels in at the moment as well), the gain in the winter comes from the water temperature getting a "leg up". No, you won't be able to run your central heating from it unfortunately, but it'll contribute to the water temperature so your oil/gas starts off with water at say 20 degrees as opposed to 10. I think the advantage of having an installer that knows what they're about is to balance the size of the panel array so you're not ending up with too much hot water in the summer, but still large enough to make a worthwhile contribution in winter.

I'd be interested in any recommendations anybody has too!

JLemmon

Yes that's what i meant by saving on the electric abit in the winter, you will have warmer water goin in to your shower (electric) so the heaters won't work as hard thus saving you abit. This is a definite advantage of the panels.
As regards 150 installed, quite a few are installed in kilmeaden in that new estate. I've also seen a few around the countryside in new builds.
To be honest, if i had the means to get some panels installed I would, it would help in the long run as regards your energy uses. Good luck with it

aboyro

first post here so bee kind. i live in tramore and have flat plate collectors for water heating only fitted to the house, 3 in total. i am blown away by their preformance. i have not used oil or electricity to heat water since the 1st of may and i don't need to tell ye how crap the weathers been. i am also installing a condensor oil boiler. which runs about 96% efficient. a fill of oil at the moment is 920 euro and i used 2.5 of them last year. not anymore hopefully

aboyro

JMcL wrote: »

From my understanding (we're looking at putting panels in at the moment as well), the gain in the winter comes from the water temperature getting a "leg up". No, you won't be able to run your central heating from it unfortunately, but it'll contribute to the water temperature so your oil/gas starts off with water at say 20 degrees as opposed to 10. I think the advantage of having an installer that knows what they're about is to balance the size of the panel array so you're not ending up with too much hot water in the summer, but still large enough to make a worthwhile contribution in winter.

I'd be interested in any recommendations anybody has too!

my thoughts exactly on the leg up. i'm also told that the more panels the better obviously theres a cost involved but i found it much cheaper to do now and not later on.

garrser

Thanks aboyro! That's a very positive review indeed.

Do you mind my asking why you went for the flat plate collectors instead of the vacuum tubes (which are supposed to be even more efficient)?

Did you have any particular reasons or was it simply one of cost (the tubes are apparently more expensive)?

garrser

Oh and aboyro, who did you get to install the panels etc for you? Did it take long and were you happy with work?

Cheers, garrser

aboyro

they just seemed to me to be the most popular ones around so thats why. i only know of one other house locally which has the solar tubes fitted.theres a bigger grant for the tubes over the flat plate collector though. i managed to get 1500blaas back from the sei as a grant so that helped no end.

very happy with the work etc. the guy who fitted them was johnny hewiston from mooncoin and i'd highly reccomend him. pm me for his numer if you like:)

garrser

Thanks for that! I see his contact details on the SEI Installer List.

aboyro

no hassle, currently have 75degs of heat running back to the cylinder as i type:)

garrser

Wow, not bad! I am looking out at all the sunshine and for the first time ever I am thinking of all that wasted energy....

BTW apart from mounting the panels was much plumbing work involved?

My wife spoke today to a neighbour in Tramore who has solar paneling for a while now but had to move the new hot water cylinder from their hot press to another part of the house, as the new one would no longer fit in it. Did you have any such problems?

aboyro

it was a squeeze alright but got it in. 300 litre tank super insulated makes for a cold press now;) no real trouble though

garrser

Nice one!!

sourcebody

I have installed two Solar panels. The first one was about 18mths ago - it is an Evacuated tube type (better efficency) and has provided hot water for 10mths of the year. Total cost of the unit including installation was €7000, I got grant for €1200 so the cost to me was €5800. I installed a Solar Cylinder with a 310 Ltr capacity and this provides all hot water for the entire house (Bath, showers, washing machine, dishwasher and kitchen sink) The heating of water is very expensive and the Solar Panel is ideal for this - temp in the tank can be as high as 90^C, there is a blending valve on my system which sets the water coming from the tank to be 50^C. It is blended with the cold water to get 50^C around the house. I see you live in Tramore, I live in Waterford, so it should be pretty easy for us to meet up if you want to see how the unit looks etc etc.

garrser

Thanks for that sourcebody.

It sounds as if you have a very good system set up there. Have you worked out how much you are saving on gas/oil/ESB? Any idea of the payback period?

I reckon I will also go for a 300 ltr cylinder which should be plenty for 4 people...

BTW you mentioned a "blending valve". Is that part of the standard setup or is it an optional add on you went for?

Thanks again, garrser

sourcebody

Cost of heating hot water is worked out as follows

320Ltrs = 320Kg in weight
Specific Heat of Water = 4186J/Kg^C
Temp difference = (85 - 12) = 73

Q (Energy J) = 4186 X 320 X 73
= 97,784,960 Joules

1Kwh = 3.6*10^6 Joules

So 97.8/3.6 = 27.2 KWh (KiloWattHours)

Cost of 1KWh is €0.23 at present due to increase by 17% in Sept.
Total Cost = 27.2 X €0.23 = €6.26 / 320Ltrs

Cost for 1mth = 6.36 X 30 = €187.68
Cost for 10mth = €1877

Therefore payback time = €5800 / 1877 = 3.1 (10mth periods)

Overall conclusion:-

In less than 3Yr period (allowing for further increases which will be inevitable) the Solar Panel will have provided me with my money back and I can now look forward to FREE HOT WATER for ever more.

They cannot Tax the Energy of the Sun !!!!!!::cool:

Finally the Blending Valve comes as standard with our system - please visit our website

www.freehotwater.eu

garrser

Thanks for that sourcebody!

Impressive figures and very well explained.

I see where you are coming from, but up to now we have not been using 320 ltrs every day - considerably less in fact - so I reckon I am looking at a pay back period of much longer than 3 years.

It's more likely to be 7 to 8 years - possibly less, if the fuel prices continue to rise as they have done over the last year.

Nevertheless it's an investment I am still committed to...

sourcebody

Thks garrser - hopefully it were of some help to you - I think it were.

wrt the amount of water you use presently, the question asked was how much would you save if you were to install a panel, without a panel you cannot even contemplate the idea of heating 320Ltrs of water, but be sure you consider all usage. I have come across some major mistakes in what is actually used versus what is thought to be used.

garrser

You are right of course. At the moment we use hot water quite sparingly which is a bit of a pain. With solar panels we would then have the luxury of hot water on demand - without worrying about ESB/oil bills anymore...

mears

garrser wrote: »

Oh and aboyro, who did you get to install the panels etc for you? Did it take long and were you happy with work?

Cheers, garrser

well garrser boy am a tramore man to was out in the cousins house yesterday she lives in kilmeaden she bought on the right as you go through kilmeaden first house so she was unable to say if she was saving or not but did say there was always hot water in the house now i can do the math on that with my own house and knw that they would pay for themselfs preety quick washing floors everyday showers baths all cost money !! sure dont have to tell you that just check out a summer bill of heating water

looksee

Thanks for that thread Garrser and all the replies, I am also in Tramore and upgrading heating, and it made for interesting reading. Our roof is west facing, we have a largish southfacing outbuilding but I think maybe the water would have too far to go to be useful.

tom thum

sunlight is the only free thing in this world. so why not use it to your advantage imo.

pommers

I am living in tramore and have got in solar tubes in December and I can say most of the time there are hot water.
I am very happy with them.

I purchased from guy in the north for 2500euro
I have 60 tubes(40 on the front of house and 20 on the back)
He included all I needed to get installed.

I got local SEI registered installer to install which cost 1150euro.

I got a grant from the SEI for 1760euro.