Russia ''invades'' Georgia

Hobbes

Interesting interview on Fox where the people being reported claim the Russians didn't do it. Fox news cuts to commercial. (ignore all the NWO bullcrap afterwards, first 4 mins is the interview).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONICYAHcTcc

Overheal

Beaten to it Hobbes

BelieveYourself wrote: »

I'm not a fan of Russian. But what Fox News do to a 12 year old girl really sucks. Does US start news censorship?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ

thanks for that. I saw this clip live. the commercial break was between 1-2 mins iirc.

SkepticOne wrote: »

Yes, McCain will get a major boost from this.

Indeed. He's never once trusted Putin. You won't hear Obama giving himself an ego boost for voting against the Iraq war anymore.

Tea drinker

Overheal wrote: »

..... You won't hear Obama giving himself an ego boost for voting against the Iraq war anymore.

Well given that if they weren't in Iraq the US would have 12 billion a month to spend on "other defences" maybe he should hawk that more than before.

Why we allow rogue states to destabilise the whole eastern european area with NATO expansion and missile shields, NATO training of Georgian soldiers, Israeli equipment flooding into Georgia etc I don't know.
This is our backyard and I don't think we should put up with this crap.

US went to war with Afghanistan because the 9/11 guys were from Saudi, then with Iraq for non existent WMD's, now they are installing a missile system to protect against non existent missiles :mad:

Poland has yet to ratify the deal, so it might not happen.
I applaud the Russkies for stating the bleeding obvious that an aggressive first strike weapon would be targeted in the event of Nuclear war. They should tell the people of Democratic Poland who do not want this system what the consequences are for them.

We need better relations with Russia, US needs worse, so yeah they go ahead and play their proxy war in Europe.
US wants to control the supply of enrgy to EU (or the world e.g petro dollar). As one of our biggest suppliers Russia feels it should control of what it supplies to us.
Take a look at Ukraines refusal to pay market rate for gas a few years ago, everyone turned around and found fault with Russia, not Ukraine who refused to cough up.

I also feel the Media protrayal of this conflict has been massively biased (aka propaganda) and a lot of people don't have any idea what's going on.

As a neutral country we should have fair and equitable media, but we can't even report on the housing situation here (DOOM MONGERS KILL YOURSELVES) let alone serious events.
We should object to this aggressive attitude in the EU, as is our right. Already Germany has had to veto Georgia entry to NATO, we should not be afraid to stand up for what is right.

Tea drinker

Tea drinker wrote: »

Poland has yet to ratify the deal, so it might not happen.
I applaud the Russkies for stating the bleeding obvious that an aggressive first strike weapon would be targeted in the event of Nuclear war. They should tell the people of Democratic Poland who do not want this system what the consequences are for them.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rp.pl%2Fartykul%2F99645%2C177484_Polacy_za_tarcza.html&hl=pl&ie=UTF8&sl=pl&tl=en

the people of Poland want it. Recent events changed their minds.

Overheal

the real question is if NATO got off their ass and responds to Russia, who do you think would back down first? I don't know about russian tech but NATO military tech is fairly sound. So why arent we flying air support over sovereign georgian territory? Veto or no veto.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

the real question is if NATO got off their ass and responds to Russia, who do you think would back down first? I don't know about russian tech but NATO military tech is fairly sound. So why arent we flying air support over sovereign georgian territory? Veto or no veto.

?? and threaten nuclear war??

Lemming

Deleted User wrote: »

?? and threaten nuclear war??

A nuke fight swings both ways ....

Tea drinker

Deleted User wrote: »

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rp.pl%2Fartykul%2F99645%2C177484_Polacy_za_tarcza.html&hl=pl&ie=UTF8&sl=pl&tl=en

the people of Poland want it. Recent events changed their minds.

So this is sorta like Lisbon etc, keep taking the pole (excuse the pun ) until you get the result you want? Is this what the people of Ossettia and Georgia were sacrificed for?

If I read the results right, there is 4% missing, max explainable through rounding would be 2%. At least 38% were against it, at the worst possible time to ask the question with an unknown manner in what way the subjects were lead to the answer also.
So while in this study at this time the Poles seem to be in favour, you never know.

Tea drinker

Tea drinker wrote: »

So while in this study at this time the Poles seem to be in favour, you never know.

Yep, well its going to a vote in the govt. One thing, while it may be in the majority now, the US go in and then the public change their minds, then the US are doubly unpopular. Its possible

irish_bob

even with iraq and afghanistan you can be pretty sure that the poles perfer uncle sam to the great bear , they know what its like to be under the soviet sickle , eastern europe is in no mood to bow to moscow again , at least in spirit even if thats all they have

conceited

Tea drinker wrote: »

As a neutral country we should have fair and equitable media, but we can't even report on the housing situation here (DOOM MONGERS KILL YOURSELVES) let alone serious events.

Hate to break it to you, but, we are far from neutral.

RedPlanet

Overheal wrote: »

So why arent we flying air support over sovereign georgian territory? Veto or no veto.

NATO countries are barely able to meet their quotas for far-flung Afghanistan where they are just "treading water" as the BBC calls it.
Who has the resources to take on Russia too?
Besides, who actually wants to stick their neck out for piddly Georgia and their reckless leader?
Reality is that Afghanistan is draining NATO resources at a time when there is a potential threat to NATO countries much closer to home.

conceited

When there is a potential threat to NATO countries much closer to home.

And who would them nato countries be?

RedPlanet

conceited wrote: »

And who would them nato countries be?

Well Poland for one.
As well as the other former Soviet repubics now quaking in their boots.
Besides the obvious threat to NATO by way of a Russian military adventure into a NATO partner.

mike65

So then any sings of the Ruskies pulling out?

Mike.

Pappy o' daniel

Georgia, ukraine and poland are to russia what central america and mexico are to the USA. How would America react if russia were plying the mexicans with weapons to join the CIS, or siteing ABMs there to protect them from "rogue states".

USA has being taking little bites from russia over the last 16 yrs, it was inevitable russia would react rather than let itself be encircled.

conceited

RedPlanet wrote: »

Well Poland for one.

Why poland?

RedPlanet

Because they are in the area, they are NATO membes and that's what they're saying.
Why are you replying if you don't read the news?

turgon

The war in Georgia for me highlights the mental and emotional differences in the attitudes of "Western" countries and Russia. As said in a Time article today, the Russians consider invasion something to boost their honour, and I suppose their ego. Basically they haven't gone past the first degree ignorant instincts of our comrades the gorillas. Rather than sorting out a problem they just attack it. Its very childish.

At a most basic level, Putin is not more than a baboon.

wes

@turgon, Almost everything you said would apply to Western nations, especially the US. Except the bit about Gorilla's and other derogotory stuff.

As for Putin, the man is a ruthless individual. He seems to be very smart and nothing like a Baboon. Remember, the guy use to run the KGB.

Playboy

turgon wrote: »

The war in Georgia for me highlights the mental and emotional differences in the attitudes of "Western" countries and Russia. As said in a Time article today, the Russians consider invasion something to boost their honour, and I suppose their ego. Basically they haven't gone past the first degree ignorant instincts of our comrades the gorillas. Rather than sorting out a problem they just attack it. Its very childish.

At a most basic level, Putin is not more than a baboon.

And you are a fool if you believe that. Russia has strategic goals and its going about achieving them in quite a ruthless way.

turgon

Playboy, I dont have a clue what your on about.

walrusgumble

on a lighter side, imagine if jack lynch actually meant what he said when he stated "he would not stand idly by", in relation to the attacks on catholics in teh north:eek:

Playboy

turgon wrote: »

Playboy, I dont have a clue what your on about.

So you are telling me that Russia only invaded Georgia because it feels its honor was slighted? So do you think any of Russia's actions in the last year or two have any strategic significance as they seemingly try to reassert their power on the world stage and esp in their own region?

conceited

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overheal
So why arent we flying air support over sovereign georgian territory? Veto or no veto.

Originally Posted by RedPlanet
NATO countries are barely able to meet their quotas for far-flung Afghanistan where they are just "treading water" as the BBC calls it.
Who has the resources to take on Russia too?
Besides, who actually wants to stick their neck out for piddly Georgia and their reckless leader?
Reality is that Afghanistan is draining NATO resources at a time when there is a potential threat to NATO countries much closer to home.

Originally Posted by conceited
And who would them nato countries be?
Well Poland for one.
As well as the other former Soviet repubics now quaking in their boots.
Besides the obvious threat to NATO by way of a Russian military adventure into a NATO partner.

RedPlanet wrote: »

Because they are in the area, they are NATO membes and that's what they're saying.
Why are you replying if you don't read the news?

Who is saying what?
Whats nato got to do with anything?
Whats poland got to do with anything?

The US are bullies. Yes.
Russia are bullies. Yes.

If the UN were any good all nuclear warheads would be under their control.

turgon

Playboy wrote: »

So you are telling me that Russia only invaded Georgia because it feels its honor was slighted? So do you think any of Russia's actions in the last year or two have any strategic significance as they seemingly try to reassert their power on the world stage and esp in their own region?

Not completely, but I see it as a factor. You cant just say there is one cause, just as if would be folly to refuse to see the global causes/effects of this regional conflict. Russia got a real ego crushing in the 1990's - going from superpower to a hated country.

Like, this year was the first time that Russia celebrated the victory over the Nazis since the fall of the Soviet Union. The had a full military parade. Surely you can see the significance of that? IMO, they are trying to regain some of the world-power that had.

And if you are to call me a fool again, please make some in-depth reasoning into why my opinion is, in your mind, so stupid.

Overheal

Whats nato got to do with anything?
Whats poland got to do with anything?

keep up



The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) is the counterpart to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), before its collapse. Its members include North America (excluding Mexico), Greenland, Iceland, most of Western Europe and some of Eastern Europe. Georgia was in talks with signing into NATO (and later the EU) when Russia chose to invade. Georgia is a former member of USSR and a couple of its local regions (South Ossetia and Abkhazia) are now considered breakaway regions; its people's still speak Russian, and use Russian currency.



Poland is already a member of NATO and the EU, and has recently been in negotiations to host 10 nuclear missiles Missile Interceptors for the United States. In exchange for hosting the ABMs (Anti-Ballistic Missiles) Poland is to receive Patriot Surface-to-Air Missile Defense systems.
While Poland is a way's off from Russia itself, its right next to Kaliningrad, a Russian Exclave (which for all intents and purposes, is Russian sovereign terrirory)

Moscow fiercely opposes the missile defense deal, claiming that the planned U.S. system will target Russia. The U.S. strongly denies that, saying the system is designed to protect against threats from countries like Iran, and would in any case be powerless against Russia's arsenal of missiles.

In return for the deal, Poland won a U.S. promise to set up an additional garrison with a battery of Patriot missiles. Poland sought that system in hopes of protecting itself from a possible Russian threat.

A new poll, meanwhile, said Polish support for the missile defense pact with the U.S. has soared following Russia's military campaign in Georgia and its threats against Poland.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hdNtXPW9-1UZEmhgLC5VZ3dDa25wD92KQFJ80
I won't blast you for knowing the basics but in the future you can answer a lot of the questions you have very easily via google.

edit: begging your pardon - 10 missile interceptors, not nukes.

extragon

Pappy o' daniel wrote: »

Georgia, ukraine and poland are to russia what central america and mexico are to the USA. How would America react if russia were plying the mexicans with weapons to join the CIS, or siteing ABMs there to protect them from "rogue states".

USA has being taking little bites from russia over the last 16 yrs, it was inevitable russia would react rather than let itself be encircled.

And one could mention US bases in former Soviet territory in Central Asia.
I don't think Russia got nearly enough credit for the massive withdrawal of its forces in 1989-91. It wanted to reform its economy and introduce democracy, but it didn't have to - at least not then - and could easily have crushed the small amount of agitation. I can think of no other example of an empire withdrawing in this manner.

Russia's reward - the US encircles it with NATO members, missiles, and bases.

conceited

Thanks for the history lesson .
Why are the united states of america putting missiles in poland?