Russia ''invades'' Georgia

mike65

Just what I was wondering.

Russians jets bombing Tbilisi again. They won't stop until they've engineering a regime change I reckon. Maybe this incursion should be viewed as part of a larger plan to subdue the states that look west not east.

Mike.

sink

Russia just announced ceasefire.

StuckHere

gandalf wrote: »

Stuckhere if you're a regular poster whats your normal nick then?

CyberGhost.

Live in Clondalkin village, near the Laurel's gas station.

StuckHere

sink wrote: »

Russia just announced ceasefire.

REALLY!? where did you read that?

sink

StuckHere wrote: »

REALLY!? where did you read that?

Sky News. They just interviewed a Russian official.

StuckHere

sink wrote: »

Sky News. They just interviewed a Russian official.

Oh YES!, thanks for the great news sink, hopefully the flights will resume soon.

mike65

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g6LePi9Jgo7MrQugqVp0JpAIL7Kw

MOSCOW (AFP) — Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on Tuesday he had decided to cease Russia's military operation against Georgia, Russian news agencies reported.

"I have taken the decision to end the operation to force Georgian authorities into peace," Medvedev was quoted as saying at a meeting with defence officials.

"The purpose of the operation has been achieved.... The security of our peacekeeping forces and the civilian population has been restored," Interfax quoted him as saying.

The decision was announced just as French President Nicolas Sarkozy was due to arrive in Moscow for talks aimed at ending the conflict in Georgia, centred on the Moscow-backed rebel region of South Ossetia.

Mike.

StuckHere

StuckHere wrote: »

Hey everyone,

I'm a regular poster here, but I can't post through my account now, cause I'm actually in Tbilisi, Georgia.... :rolleyes:

says the guy with 4 posts

gurramok

StuckHere wrote: »

From what I can gather, even the citizens themselves(myself included), hate what Georgia did, starting shooting "GRAD" in the middle of the night at a population of Ossetia, moving tanks it and running over kids and slitting women's throats, at the Olympics too, I can't fault Russia TBH.

Ah yes, where did you find this info about 'running over kids and slitting womens throats'??

Somehow you didn't mention the Russian bombing of an apt block in Gori while you mentioned the town.

Your post comes across as Georgian=bad and Russia=good and i seriously doubt your neutralness in all this.

SeanW

SeanW wrote: »

Slightly OT, but this is one of the many reasons I support the use of nuclear electricity in Ireland.

Both the Wewst and East have staked their claims now on fossil fuel resources and both have choosen to fight for them.
European nations and North American nations in Iraq and Afghanistan and Russia in Georgia and the Chinese now have a military alliance with nations in the Caucaucus.

After the summit, in a highly symbolic gesture, the heads of states and defense ministers of all SCO members - China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan - will watch the conclusion of the joint military exercise in Urumqi.

The SCO has never held a full-scale military exercise involving all its member states. An estimated 6,500 troops will take part in the exercise, including 2,000 Russian and 1,600 Chinese personnel. This is the first time that China will be deputing its airborne units for a military exercise abroad. Russia and China will deploy 36 and 46 aircraft respectively

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/IH04Ag01.html

So I reckon in the future we will probably lose more people as war casualties than we would ever lose to nuclear power. I never really supported nuclear power, I dont yet but Im beginning to think about it!

The best option is if wind and wave can replace our energy needs here either way we need to get the hell away from energy supplies that are covered in blood.

would love a mod to confirm the ip from stuckhere as being in Georgia
be awesome if we actually did have someone on the ground there

sink

Deleted User wrote: »

would love a mod to confirm the ip from stuckhere as being in Georgia
be awesome if we actually did have someone on the ground there

Well he did say he was using a proxy outside the country. It has been on the news that all foreign media (Tv, radio) and some websites have been blocked in Georgia.

StuckHere

Deleted User wrote: »

says the guy with 4 posts

did you actually look up my regular username? CyberGhost, look it up, I have 4 times the amount of posts you have.

gurramok wrote: »

Ah yes, where did you find this info about 'running over kids and slitting womens throats'??

Somehow you didn't mention the Russian bombing of an apt block in Gori while you mentioned the town.

Your post comes across as Georgian=bad and Russia=good and i seriously doubt your neutralness in all this.

I know people from Ossetia too, and I was told that, by them, as for the Gory yes, they did bomb it but who bombed Tshinvali first?

And yes, I'm angry at this government, they could've atleast warned people or something, some people have businesses to do you know and don't have time to waste sitting out war.

As for the army here... read it yourself...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4509692.ece#

StuckHere

StuckHere wrote: »

did you actually look up my regular username? CyberGhost, look it up, I have 4 times the amount of posts you have.

post from that username so LOL

StuckHere

StuckHere wrote: »

, as for the Gory yes, they did bomb it but who bombed Tshinvali first?

Gori or Gory, you dont mind them bombing it so


SHENNANIGANS I CALL SHENNANIGANS

StuckHere

Deleted User wrote: »

post from that username so LOL

I forgot the password and I can't reset it cause I forgot my email password as well :mad:

Deleted User wrote: »

Gori or Gory, you dont mind them bombing it so


SHENNANIGANS I CALL SHENNANIGANS

haha, well, I don't care to be frank what it's called, I just want to get out already and go back to good old Dublin.

Yesterday I was out in the neighborhood with the local guys and they were actually talking about helping the Russians, take out the government :eek:

basically people put their hands up, that calmed me down to be honest, cause if some idiot started something I'd wind up in the middle, it's not my war.

RedPlanet

After reading that Times article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4509692.ece#
I wonder if some NATO folks are reconsidering inviting Georgia into their arms trading club. Seems like they didn't even attempt to defend their soveriegnty and just abandoned the city of Gori incase the Russians bothered to move into it. They tucked their tails as soon as the Russians bared teeth.

sink

There is no doubt that NATO is far less likely to accept Georgia now. It was France and Germany that blocked Georgia joining for reasons of it being too unstable and they have been vindicated. WWI started when large military alliances spread out into an unstable region which dragged the great powers into a conflict that had nothing to do with them. The US and the UK should take on board this lesson and not be so quick to sign up new members.

Sesshoumaru

RedPlanet wrote: »

After reading that Times article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4509692.ece#
I wonder if some NATO folks are reconsidering inviting Georgia into their arms trading club. Seems like they didn't even attempt to defend their soveriegnty and just abandoned the city of Gori incase the Russians bothered to move into it. They tucked their tails as soon as the Russians bared teeth.

Is that your expert military opinion? Would you mind sharing with us which military academy you attended?

Sesshoumaru

sink wrote: »

There is no doubt that NATO is far less likely to accept Georgia now. It was France and Germany that blocked Georgia joining for reasons of it being too unstable and they have been vindicated. WWI started when large military alliances spread out into an unstable region which dragged the great powers into a conflict that had nothing to do with them. The US and the UK should take on board this lesson and not be so quick to sign up new members.

I thought France and especially Germany had been neutralised on this matter due to their dependance on Russian gas.

SeanW

StuckHere wrote: »

I forgot the password and I can't reset it cause I forgot my email password as well :mad:

How convenient.

sink

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I thought France and especially Germany had been neutralised on this matter due to their dependance on Russian gas.

Germany is very dependent but 80% of French electricity comes from nuclear power and 14% from hydro so they are less exposed. In fact they are probably one of the least exposed western countries in terms of energy, them and Norway.

gurramok

StuckHere wrote: »

I know people from Ossetia too, and I was told that, by them, as for the Gory yes, they did bomb it but who bombed Tshinvali first?

If you had bothered to read http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/special-extra-%E2%80%94-editorial-the-facts-on-georgia/
it ain't all the Georgians fault, they too are the victims.

Sounds like a few bombs dropping in Gori killing civilans does not concern you, hope i'm wrong on that.

As for your info from Ossetians that you claim to know, well that is 2nd hand info. I'd rather get these reports of genocide from an independent source than from the Russian propaganda media which is the only source so far for media over here.

StuckHere wrote: »

As for the army here... read it yourself...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4509692.ece#

Whats new there?

We know the Georgian army retreated in the face of the Russian onslaught to defend the capital city, thats not new news.
The way you put it is that they are a bunch of idiots or something!

gurramok

3 journalists killed in Russian bombing of Gori. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0812/breaking86.htm

Afraid they would report some fact?!

regedit

Bobo78 wrote: »

For your information Kosovo was a part of Serbia for last few hundred years, before that it was under Turkish empire which ruled the Kosovo for 500 hundred years so Kosovo was never Albanian.
There were mainly Serbs there and Turkish and some bit of Albanians.
Within the last 50 years Albanians from Albania were emerging to Kosovo which was part of Serbia which was in Yugoslavia. In that time president of Yugoslavia was Tito and he was Croatian man, who allowed all these Albanians to emigrate in to Kosovo without any problems and the main reason they migrated to Kosovo was becouse its economic situatuions was much better then in Albania which was and still is very poor and corupted country which is runned by mafia and runs business such as drog traficking, illigal prostituiton, gun traficking, and all kind of illigal illigal stuff that many people in Western countries are not aware.
There is a lot of similarity between the Serbian Kosovo and Georgian South Ossetia and Abhazia for sure.

That's the biggest bunch of bull I've heard in a long time.
I myself am Kosovar (Albanian) and I know the history. My parents are from there and the grandparents. I asked extensively about people coming over from Albania. Guess what, aside from the Serb propaganda and people who blindly trust it, nobody else had heard off!

StuckHere

Well you guys can keep on making sarcastic and doubtful remarks, but when you actually see the government say one thing to the west and the media and a complete opposite is happening in front of you, it's hard to believe stuff you know, I'm more inclined to believe Russia at this point.

But, let's go back to hating Russia, cause it's more convenient that way and it suits the West.


Russians are evil.

Kama

While confirmation would be sweet, I'd tend to believe CyberGhost/Stuck. Possible actual person versus conventional media, I'll listen to the person first. If you bother noting last post on Ghost, and first on Stuck, its consistent. Or, confirm/deny through Ghosts friends?

But then, I forget passwords all the time, so I'm biased :P Only 'remember' em when they are saved on my lappy...

As to news, and whose Empire is Teh Evilest, I think it'd be safe to assume both sides were doing a fair job of propaganda. Bush becoming a fan of territorial integrity? Putin declaring peace through 'demilitarization' by grabbing Gori? Reminded of Kierkegaard: 'And nobody laughs'.
Neither are trustworthy characters tbqfh. I tend to the Bill Hicks line on this...Liars and Murderers, all of 'em. Saint-Just said 'it is impossible to rule innocently'; neither of these Big Boys are moral virgins. 2 countries run by gangster-types, engaged in resource wars, with no qualms about invading anywhere they can get away with, and a increased desire to nuke something to show their precious bodily fluids are intact? Which are the 'good guys' again?


John Robb (4GW military theorist)has some interesting points on Russia's vulnerabilities on the gas front, as opposed to just 'turning off our taps'.

RUSSIA'S HOSTILE ACQUISITION

Russia is, for all intents and purposes, a corporation with the trappings of a nation-state. The core business of the Russian corporation is energy, its production and transport (as a result, Gazprom, Russia's key subsidiary, will likely become the world's most valuable publicly traded corporation, valued at over $1 trillion). Internally, production consolidation has led to the destruction of corporate competitors, to include domestic corporations (Yukos) and foreign partners (most recently BP). Externally, the focus has been on consolidating control over energy transportation (pipelines) and downstream integration (Europe, via soft pressure)

*snip*

The uncomfortable fact for Russia, hidden behind the bluster of this crisis, is that it is reliant on oil/gas exports for 50% of the state's finances and the bulk of the vast portfolios of its top politicians. Further, the state owned firms that provide this bounty are also traded on global markets -- which provides the huge market capitalizations that provide Russia with the financial muscle for their entire natural resource strategy (which has become the centerpiece of Russian foreign policy).

*snip*

Georgia's mistake, and it is a common one, is that it thought that connectivity to the global system (as well as the US) was a viable defense against a hostile Russian takeover. As a result, it became a vital cog in the BTC and a willing participant in the US adventure in Iraq. That defense proved mostly hollow. In short, the only real defense against hostile takeovers by aggressive corporate states is to make the cost of the acquisition too expensive for the acquirer. The way to do this is through the development of a poison pill: the intentional disruption of Russian energy pipelines

jmayo

StuckHere wrote: »

did you actually look up my regular username? CyberGhost, look it up, I have 4 times the amount of posts you have.

I know people from Ossetia too, and I was told that, by them, as for the Gory yes, they did bomb it but who bombed Tshinvali first?

And yes, I'm angry at this government, they could've atleast warned people or something, some people have businesses to do you know and don't have time to waste sitting out war.
...

Ah yes next time before a government and their military decide to do an operation they will advertise on the web just so that visitors don't get caught out :rolleyes:
Maybe they will have an internet poll on boards to organise the whole thing.
Ah yes they started it first. So lets bomb the cr** out of them.

If the Russians are so concerned about groups and areas having independence why don't they pull out of Chetyna ?

Like SeanW I find it hard to believe you have forgotten all your passwords all of a sudden.

As other posters have said, the sooner we invest in nuclear power the better.
Alternative sources such as wave and wind will not cut it since they are not consistent enough.

sovtek

Happy Monday wrote: »

Hopefully Obama will come to power and begin this process....

Obama the great "white" hope has already said he will do no such a thing.

RedPlanet

BP shuts down 2 of 3 pipelines in Georgia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7556215.stm

So does this mean we can blame Britiain for turning the gas off?