Kurt Angle the best ever?

Blue-dragon

As we know that Kurt Angle is 1996 olympic gold medal winner and we have seen him wrestle lots of great wrestlers in WWE. He has beaten Undertaker, John Cena, Triple H, The Rock, Stonecold and well nearly everyone. He is packed with awesome submission and grapple moves and he is ever patient when he is wrestle with his competitor. Discuss possible great matches and things you like or dislike about him. Is he the greatest wrestler living in planet?

rovert

So what are we meant to be discussing Kurt Angle the best ever? or greatest wrestler still living in planet?

Blue-dragon

Just say what do you want to say about kurt angle. Do you think he is the greatest wrestler with his in ring ability when he is fighting his competitor? Do you admire his wrestling ability?

rovert

Blue-dragon wrote: »

Just say what do you want to say about kurt angle. Do you think he is the greatest wrestler with his in ring ability when he is fighting his competitor? Do you admire his wrestling ability?

Ever or still living though, it is important?

Blue-dragon

Whichever. The greatest wrestler today is better? you can discuss about that

AlphaMale 3OO

rovert wrote: »

Ever or still living though, it is important?

Who cares? Why are you always weird?

Dancor

rovert wrote: »

it is important?

No its not.

rovert

dancor wrote: »

No its not.

As Angle is the greatest ever? What?

forbesii wrote: »

Who cares? Why are you always weird?

No it was a genuine enquiry he asked two different questions.

Blue-dragon

Rover please it doesnt matter. This is a thread to discuss abt kurt angle is he the greatest wrestler at the moment with the wrestling ability that can be perfrom in the wring. Thats is all. ok?

rovert

Blue-dragon wrote: »

Rover please it doesnt matter. This is a thread to discuss abt kurt angle is he the greatest wrestler at the moment with the wrestling ability that can be perfrom in the wring. Thats is all. ok?

*Points to thread title*

We established that before dancor and forbesii posted didnt we?

rovert

Let me first say Angle does have good matches and is capable from time to time at having great matches in addition of being a good, if extremely overexposed television performer.

But he only has two formula matches, either the one with an opened of his size or smaller like they're Chris Benoit, and the other when his opponent is bigger than him like they're the Undertaker. In terms of ring psychology he is an idiot as his finisher and signature moves have been made meaningless, look how over the ankle lock was and how much it meant in his match with HBK at Wrestlemania and what it does mean now. He lets too many finisher reversals and kick outs in his matches. There is a story I remember about Kurt Angle being furious that Eddy Guerrero stayed on the ground (you know SELLING) in a match too long as he wanted to deliver MORE suplexs. That is the level of understand of wrestling is not that of a great wrestler.

If Kurt Angle is such a great worker while being broken down why does he try to work at a pace that he can't do? Great workers like for example Jushin Liger and Shawn Michaels have reformed their styles. Why isn’t Angle able to? If Angle was such a great worker he could work around his body breaking down.

There are numerous better wresters than Angle currently but my pick is Bryan Danielson as his matches are so diverse and he knows what he is doing in the ring.

EdK

Danielson is a great wrestler he does need to learn how to sell though, an aspect which is completely absent from Indy wrestling

rovert

EdK wrote: »

Danielson is a great wrestler he does need to learn how to sell though, an aspect which is completely absent from Indy wrestling

That is THE Indy Style now though which is more and more influenced by Japanese Fighting Spirit than big time American wrestling.

G-Money

Angle is one of my favourite wrestlers purely because of his wrestling ability and atheltiscm (I know I didn't spell that correctly). I don't know anything about the psychology of a match or anything, but I really like how good Angle is technically. I like to see some mat wrestling with lots of reversals etc, just as much as a John Cena punch them up style match.

I still remember seeing Angle v Undertaker at No Way Out and thought the lead up to the finish was great, with lots of false finishes.

I haven't seen much wrestling recently and I haven't seen any TNA at all ever, so I don't know what Angle is performing like these days.

rovert

grandmaster wrote: »

I still remember seeing Angle v Undertaker at No Way Out and thought the lead up to the finish was great, with lots of false finishes.

Awesome, awesome match. It had more logic than Angle's most recent matches.

CMpunked

I've always thought angle was brilliant, his progression from the baby faced gold medal "Olympic hero" to the bald headed, tense, determined "Wrestling machine" was awsome.
The depiction of his character was like being able to watch a caterpillar turn into a butterfly, or a more weird similarity would be a slight peculiar spot to an amputatable flesh eating disease.

Because there is two Kurt Angles, there is the Kurt who was amazing technically who had a Matt striker like ego and was written into strange storylines like mcmahon love affairs.
But now there is Angle. As much as i honestly would not pass him up as being the most genuine guy when it comes to being what a wrestler should be (He isnt exactly huge so he doesnt just throw people around).

I have to say his perception that there is no politics backstage at TNA, but yet his obvious hatred towards the WWE, which is evident, shows a bitter man.
A man who is out to prove somebody wrong, a man who wants to rub it right in the face of the guy who said, "you need to slow down".
He is like a man possessed, hell bent on it all just to stick his finger up at every mcmahon or WWE doctor.

Everyone knows he is, possibly next to Nash and Jeff J, the big guy in TNA, and if everyone doesnt have a chance to drink his cool aid, then that makes an angry kurt.

I think personally i hold Kurt Angle as the greatest ever wrestler I have ever seen, thats my opinion, i have never seen anyone better.
As a businessman, or as ANYTHING as an in ring competitor, i could not care less about him.
(EDIT: Meant to say ANYTHING rather than anyone)

rovert

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

I think personally i hold Kurt Angle as the greatest ever wrestler I have ever seen, thats my opinion, i have never seen anyone better.
As a businessman, or as anyone as an in ring competitor, i could not care less about him.

Out of interest what Wrestling (years, promotions etc) have you seen?

CMpunked

rovert wrote: »

Out of interest what Wrestling (years, promotions etc) have you seen?

Why whats that got to do with anything?

rovert

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

Why whats that got to do with anything?

What is so unreasonable about that?

CMpunked

rovert wrote: »

What is so unreasonable about that?

The fact that your just trying to pry at what ive said perhaps?

rovert

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

The fact that your just trying to pry at what ive said perhaps?

On a discussion board oh noes. :eek: It is just that you said "i have never seen anyone better." Which begs the question, what have you seen? It is a simple enough question.

flahavaj

rovert wrote: »

Let me first say Angle does have good matches and is capable from time to time at having great matches in addition of being a good, if extreme overexposed television performer.

But he only has two formula matches, either the one with an opened of his size or smaller like they're Chris Benoit, and the other when his opponent is bigger than him like they're the Undertaker. In terms of ring psychology he is an idiot as his finisher and signature moves have been made meaningless, look how over the ankle lock was and how much it meant in his match with HBK at Wrestlemania and what it does mean now. He lets too many finisher reversals and kick outs in his matches. There is a story I remember about Kurt Angle being furious that Eddy Guerrero stayed on the ground (you know SELLING) in a match too long as he wanted to deliver MORE suplexs. That is the level of understand of wrestling is not that of a great wrestler.

If Kurt Angle is such a great worker while being broken down why does he try to work at a pace that he can't do? Great workers like for example Jushin Liger and Shawn Michaels have reformed their styles. Why isn’t Angle able to? If Angle was such a great worker he could work around his body breaking down.

There are numerous better wresters than Angle currently but my pick is Bryan Danielson as his matches are so diverse and he knows what he is doing in the ring.

Every word of this is the absolute truth. I ****ing HATE Kurt Angle, he has little or no grasp of ring psychology, selling or how to pace a match properly.

flahavaj

EdK wrote: »

Danielson is a great wrestler he does need to learn how to sell though, an aspect which is completely absent from Indy wrestling

While selling as a whole is often absent in indy matches as you say, Danielson is outstanding in trms of selling properly for his opponents. I'd love you to name some examples of this supposed lack of selling.

rovert

flahavaj wrote: »

While selling as a whole is often absent in indy matches as you say, Danielson is outstanding in trms of selling properly for his opponents. I'd love you to name some examples of this supposed lack of selling.

The match/angle with Morshima where Bryan got cut open at ROH Rising Above is one of the most intense things Ive seen in a while and pretty much that was all Danielson. Shame the revenge match never happened.

flahavaj

rovert wrote: »

The match/angle with Morshima where Bryan got cut open at ROH Rising Above is one of the most intense things Ive seen in a while and pretty much that was all Danielson. Shame the revenge match never happened.

It was ****ing immense. Then again everything Danielson does is magnificent. its a terrible pity Morishima wining the GHC title put paid to any blow off they may have had planned. The match where Dragon just flipped out and stomped the balls off him was great. Best in the world and has been for about 3 years.

Fozzy

Angle is definitely not the best wrestler ever. As has already been mentioned, he likes to overdo stuff which can end up hurting matches. He's had some amazing matches with guys who can take control of him though, he's a great foil for a good worker. I think that's been a big problem with him in TNA because everyone there sees him as the top guy and he's allowed to basically do what he wants. He's deteriorated a good bit

And Danielson's ****in awesome at selling

Mr.Nice Guy

flahavaj wrote: »

Every word of this is the absolute truth. I ****ing HATE Kurt Angle, he has little or no grasp of ring psychology, selling or how to pace a match properly.

flahavaj wrote:

Then again everything Danielson does is magnificent. its a terrible pity Morishima wining the GHC title put paid to any blow off they may have had planned. The match where Dragon just flipped out and stomped the balls off him was great. Best in the world and has been for about 3 years.

I don't know what astonishes me more. The fact you criticise Angle's in-ring psychology and selling or the fact you herald Bryan Danielson as a master of the art when he and his ROH colleagues are anything but.

Is Kurt Angle the best wrestler ever? I would say no but I would say he's in the top ten. He can go places I don't think any other wrestler can go to.

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't know what astonishes me more. The fact you criticise Angle's in-ring psychology and selling or the fact you herald Bryan Danielson as a master of the art when he and his ROH colleagues are anything but.

On what do you base the Danielson comment, exactly? As I said earlier I'd love to hear some examples of all these matches where Danielson has failed to sell properly. You're right about it being a flaw in many of the ROH roster. But to say its true of Danielson is beyond ridiculous.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Is Kurt Angle the best wrestler ever? I would say no but I would say he's in the top ten. He can go places I don't think any other wrestler can go to.

To an early grave? Thats where his ridiculous style has him headed you know.;)

Mr.Nice Guy

flahavaj wrote: »

On what do you base the Danielson comment, exactly? As I said earlier I'd love to hear some examples of all these matches where Danielson has failed to sell properly. You're right about it being a flaw in many of the ROH roster. But to say its true of Danielson is beyond ridiculous.

Probably the main aspect that turns me off ROH more than anything is the failure to sell and the fact the finishes drag on way too long. It baffles me how Angle can get criticised for not selling and yet Danielson can be lauded when I've seen him get hit with devastating moves and pop back up seconds later seemingly unfazed. I find it farcical.

I will say I find others to be more guilty of this than Danielson but I do think he is guilty nonetheless.

flahavaj wrote:

To an early grave? Thats where his ridiculous style has him headed you know.;)

Ah sure we heard the same said of Keith Richards and he's still defying medical science. :pac:

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Probably the main aspect that turns me off ROH more than anything is the failure to sell and the fact the finishes drag on way too long. It baffles me how Angle can get criticised for not selling and yet Danielson can be lauded when I've seen him get hit with devastating moves and pop back up seconds later seemingly unfazed. I find it farcical.

I will say I find others to be more guilty of this than Danielson but I do think he is guilty nonetheless.

Specific examples of this, though? i know I sound like rovert but I'm genuinely curious to know of when you've seen this happen.

Mr.Nice Guy

flahavaj wrote: »

Specific examples of this, though? i know I sound like rovert but I'm genuinely curious to know of when you've seen this happen.

It was a match involving him and Nigel McGuinness. It was a good while ago. Maybe a year.

I'm not a big fan of ROH fan so I couldn't tell you the name of the PPV.

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It was a match involving him and Nigel McGuinness. It was a good while ago. Maybe a year.

I'm not a big fan of ROH fan so I couldn't tell you the name of the PPV.

Thats it? You'd judge a worker and slate his lack of selling based on one match that took place on a show the name of which escapes you on a date you can't remember? Hardly damning evidence in fairness.:eek:

Meh, we've argued this many times, you've hardly changed your mind and I sureas hell haven't.:P

Mr.Nice Guy

flahavaj wrote: »

Thats it? You'd judge a worker and slate his lack of selling based on one match that took place on a show the name of which escapes you on a date you can't remember? Hardly damning evidence in fairness.:eek:

Meh, we've argued this many times, you've hardly changed your mind and I sureas hell haven't.:P

It's not based on one match. That was just the last time I watched ROH. I've seen enough of him to form what I consider to be a fair opinion on the guy.

But yes I remember we've argued this before and I can't believe you're still down on Angle. Tut tut.

rovert

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It's not based on one match. That was just the last time I watched ROH. I've seen enough of him to form what I consider to be a fair opinion on the guy.

Well he can eventually still sell regardless whether you seen him working ROH style on a handful of occasions. Even if what you wrote is true, selling is not really demanded by ROH and he is working to the demands. Would you mark Ric Flair down as he didnt do lucha in WWE?

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

But yes I remember we've argued this before and I can't believe you're still down on Angle. Tut tut.

Care to argue with anything I wrote about Angle?

chopperbyrne

Angle has amazing ability, but he always wrestles like a babyface even when he's the main heel in a company.

Rushing up the ropes to do a top rope belly to belly suplex or doing multiple high impact moves in the space of a minute.

He doesn't seem to know how to wrestle as a heel, slowing things down and working the crowd.

So in my opinion, no he's not the best ever or even the best currently.

That said, he's always been excellent on the mic which has been a huge help to his career and something that a lot of top guys really need to work on. (scripted promos don't help the new guys though)

rossie1977

rovert wrote: »

signature moves have been made meaningless, look how over the ankle lock was and how much it meant in his match with HBK at Wrestlemania and what it does mean now. He lets too many finisher reversals and kick outs in his matches.

ric flair........

rovert

rossie1977 wrote: »

ric flair........

When did that move actually mean something for Flair? Even in the 80's that was really the finish of his matches.