CAN drive, WON'T drive?

spinandscribble

J_R wrote: »

There is absolutely no need whatsoever to misaligned your mirrors and I repeat any instructor who advises their pupils to do so is incompetent.

Only

incompetent? if it helps and you're keeping a eye around, it doesn't hurt anyone. i would have thought this is one of the reasons why mirrors can be manually tilted

J_R

spinandscribble wrote: »

incompetent? if it helps and you're keeping a eye around, it doesn't hurt anyone. i would have thought this is one of the reasons why mirrors can be manually tilted

Hi,

Mirrors are mounted on a swivel so that they may be adjusted for different sized drivers, not so that they can be maladjusted.

One of the items you may be marked on in the test is whither your have your mirrors corrected adjusted or not.

I repeat an instructor who advises his pupils to emphasis eye or head movement is not teaching them how when or where to check the mirrors properly, therefore he is incompetent.

Wishbone Ash

Sqaull20 wrote: »

What kind of idiot reverses around a corner?

I don't know of any 'idiots' who do so but lots of ordinary experienced drivers have to do so now and again.

Sqaull20 wrote: »

Yes thats reversing, its not around an actual " corner " is it?

There is nothing to suggest that it is "reversing around a corner" in a driving test - it is simply called the "reversing manoeuvre".

Sqaull20 wrote: »

In my 2 tests I reversed around an actual corner ( in an estate )

Would I be correct in saying that you appear to have a problem with being asked to perform this manoeuvre?

The ability to safely reverse a vehicle around a bend is on of the most basic of all driving skills. Observation is the key of this manoeuvre. You must be aware of everything that is going on around you. You must maintain complete control of your vehicle using the accelerator, the clutch, the footbrake, the park brake and the steering wheel.

It is one of the most basic components of any driving test.

OP

Just suck it up, and jump through the hoops for the test. i.e. exaggerated head movements etc.

It's the same for everyone.

Wishbone Ash

ND 1978 wrote: »

jump through the hoops for the test. i.e. exaggerated head movements etc

Candidates can be penalised for doing exaggerated head movements!

wil

ND 1978 wrote: »

OP

Just suck it up, and jump through the hoops for the test. i.e. exaggerated head movements etc.

It's the same for everyone.

:eek::eek::eek:
The exaggerated head movements are another of those myths perpetuated by many who havent yet learned to drive properly.

A good instructor will teach you how, when and where to look for safe observation in all situations, training you so that it becomes a natural and instinctual movement and not have to rely on ridiculous exaggeration in an attempt to pretend you know what you are doing.

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Candidates can be penalised for doing exaggerated head movements!

Touche! OK, maybe 'visible' gets my point across clearer than the word 'exaggerated'

J_R

ND 1978 wrote: »

Touche! OK, maybe 'visible' gets my point across clearer than the word 'exaggerated'

Hi,

There is no need to make the slightest concession to the examiner. Simply check your mirrors, observation into junctions on approach etc.

Regarding my claim that instructors who teach to exaggerate or emphasis are incompetent. I will go further and state that if they insist their pupils must do so, they conclusively prove they are incompetent.

My reasoning. Once upon a time, they examined a pupils test report sheet. They see pupil got marks say for mirrors. The pupil insists they checked exactly as they were taught so the instructor assumes the reason they got marked was because the examiner did not see them checking, so all subsequent pupils told Emphasis, exaggerate etc etc.

They put the blame on the examiner, instead of their own short comings, attempt to find out what they are doing wrong and correct it.

spinandscribble

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

Mirrors are mounted on a swivel so that they may be adjusted for different sized drivers, not so that they can be maladjusted.

One of the items you may be marked on in the test is whither your have your mirrors corrected adjusted or not.

I repeat an instructor who advises his pupils to emphasis eye or head movement is not teaching them how when or where to check the mirrors properly, therefore he is incompetent.

ah, i get ya, but my instructor makes sure i check he mirrors properly but i tilt them so that i can see the kerb and how far away my wheels are. is that ok everyone? i fix them afterwards of course.

2qk4u

spinandscribble wrote: »

ah, i get ya, but my instructor makes sure i check he mirrors properly but i tilt them so that i can see the kerb and how far away my wheels are. is that ok everyone? i fix them afterwards of course.

A competent driver should be able to reverse without the aid of the mirror.

spinandscribble

does everyone agree with the above statement?
i can reverse without them but not if i want to keep in line perfectly with the kerb.

RoseBlossom

2qk4u wrote: »

A competent driver should be able to reverse without the aid of the mirror.

spinandscribble wrote: »

does everyone agree with the above statement?

I presume that's tongue in cheek? Not all cars have great visibility out the side/back windows and using your mirrors isn't a sign that you're incompetent! My car has a smallish, "high", back window and small back seat windows. If I didn't use my wing mirror when reversing I would be relying wholly on memory/guesswork because visibility is so limited...and fantastic spatial memory isn't going to tell me about the small child that's just run behind me...!

spinandscribble - I think most people don't reverse around corners much and so wouldn't need to adjust the mirror downwards as you can see the car you're parking beside just fine through the window (the usual real-life scenario for when you have to "reverse around a corner"), or your gate posts or whatever. You would only need to adjust downwards when the obstacle you're manouvering around is the kerb or something equally low. A lot of people do it for the test and stop doing it when they become more confident...and when there's no tester to mark them down for scraping the kerb! :pac:

Enda89

In fairness, I think the original poster talks a lot of sense. Turning your head 90 degrees to check your mirror isin't safe, a glance will do. Reversing around a corner is just stupid really. Some of the bends they get you to reverse around are blind bends. What if a car comes tearing up behind you?

Also I think parallel parking should defo be on the test. Thats a more useful technique to learn than how to reverse around a corner.

ssmith6287

My driving instructor told me to get a wide angle mirror thingy. Like the ones you put on the outside of the mirrors when towing a caravan. Put it on yer dash so that way the tester can see yer eye movements aswell as facial reactions. If you look confident the tester will be more inclined to be more leanient if example you cut out. Also he said Dont be afraid to talk to the tester. Talk about a car behind you, mak up something about whats happening behind ya, Talk about lunatics on the road as if you look down on them. Anything to make yer awareness more clear. Finally you start off with 100% on yer test, Its only your fault for dropping marks.

Stark

What utterly stupid advice. Especially the bit about making derogatory comments about other road users.

pnag

It's nice to see the differing views, folks! I've calmed down quite a bit since my original post.

You see my problem now - some are saying 'exaggerated' head movements, others are saying drive safely, checking mirrors as you normally would. Well, I did just that in a pre-test, and was "failed"... The tester told me he couldn't "see" me looking, so my observation obviously wasn't up to scratch! :S

Funny thing is, this has happened to two of my friends in the real deal too... How do you prove that you did look? You exaggerate! Do it too much, and you fail... Argh!

And from everyone I've spoken to, testers, instructors and drivers alike, everyone bar one or two on Boards.ie, refer to it as "reversing around a corner" and mention how pointless it is!!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ztoical

pnag wrote: »

And from everyone I've spoken to, testers, instructors and drivers alike, everyone bar one or two on Boards.ie, refer to it as "reversing around a corner" and mention how pointless it is!!

most people still refer to the turn around as the three point turn - its out of habit more then anything else. I was one of the people who thought the whole reverse around the corner part of the test was pointless but boy have I changed my mind. The amount of times I've needed to reverse around objects on a day to day basis really is staggering. Just yesterday I had to reverse around a car with a trailer in a petrol station and it felt very like when I reversed around the corner in the test - you need to show you can control the car while in reverse and the method for doing that in the test is the easiest and most fair option as you don't know if you'll meet any objects to reverse around during the test to demo the skill and having people reverse into a parking space isn't an option for alot of test centers cus finding a parking space can be a royal pain in the back side. At least with the corner you know its going to be there every time and they usually pick quite enough roads to use. Plus any car can reverse around a corner but with cars without power steering parallel parking is really hard and it wouldn't be fair on people driving without power steering if the reverse test was to parallel park.

ssmith6287

Stark wrote: »

What utterly stupid advice. Especially the bit about making derogatory comments about other road users.

Why?

Easy Rider

ssmith6287 wrote: »

Why?

As the instructor will think you are a complete idiot and could count it as roadrage and fail you....who wants to sit in a car listening to someone moan about other drivers, you should be concentrating on the road....

ssmith6287

No ye got me wrong. Ye talk about lunatics, like people breaking the law etc. Not about people driving slow n stuff. Surely if he thinks ye dont like people that over take 2 cars on a bend, he/she will think more of ya

Easy Rider

No, just stay silent unless you want to ask for instructions again, saying that about other drivers would be so contrived and obvious as to what you are trying to do and could have the opposite affect....just listen to the instructions, drive, observe, indicate etc..

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

NinjaTruncs

OP one problem you have it that you are being advised by your parents and friends, while they may be critical of your driving it my not be for the right reasons. They would not have to required experience in seeing other peoples faults in their driving.

I was self thought at driving and went for a pretest, the instructor done the test routine with just telling me where to go and took notes as i went, at the end he said i would have failed and told me what i was doing wrong. I listened to what he said and took it on board, I feel by doing so i did improve as a driver and i didn't feel that i needed to drive like a retard as someone esle said. I'd say the only thing i changed between my driving during the test as now is the speed i go at and the way i hold the steering wheel.

Observation is a tricky one, some people just move their eyes to look and a tester may not notice. but to look properly you head does need to move for each of the side mirror, not by huge amount but it would be noticible all the same, for the rear view moving your eyes would be enough imo.

Overature

seems like you didn't get any lesson's, i have no problem driving. but because im getting lessons, the instructer can point out my mistakes before i take my test

wil

pnag wrote: »

It's nice to see the differing views, folks! I've calmed down quite a bit since my original post.

You see my problem now - some are saying 'exaggerated' head movements, others are saying drive safely, checking mirrors as you normally would. Well, I did just that in a pre-test, and was "failed"... The tester told me he couldn't "see" me looking, so my observation obviously wasn't up to scratch! :S

Funny thing is, this has happened to two of my friends in the real deal too... How do you prove that you did look? You exaggerate! Do it too much, and you fail... Argh!

And from everyone I've spoken to, testers, instructors and drivers alike, everyone bar one or two on Boards.ie, refer to it as "reversing around a corner" and mention how pointless it is!!

Not enough training and a little too much talking.

Good observation invariably involves a certain amount checking blind spots at the correct time.
If you can do that without moving your head then you may have severe exophthalmos.

It is obvious even to a average experienced driver when someone is not seeing or noticing what is going on around them eg the examiner may notice that car that swerved behind as you pulled out in front of him, or you not moving your foot to the brake as that kid put his to the pedestrian crossing, or not moving your car slightly more to the centre of the road and slightly back to get a better view of traffic ahead of the truck in front. There are many ways you may make it obvious you are not observing to a desired standard.
Exaggerated head movements dont cut it.

Being able to reverse your car in a controlled and accurate manner is hardly a pointless ability.
If you feel the need to avoid ever doing so, then invest in a Reliant Robin.

J_R

pnag wrote: »

You see my problem now - some are saying 'exaggerated' head movements, others are saying drive safely, checking mirrors as you normally would. Well, I did just that in a pre-test, and was "failed"... The tester told me he couldn't "see" me looking, so my observation obviously wasn't up to scratch! :S

Hi,

It was the driving instructor who was not up to scratch.
From Driving Fault Marking Guidelines - Mirrors

In all cases, a tester must be certain that an applicant did not make proper use of the mirrors, before recording a mirror fault.

Beats me why people pay for these so called pre-tests. Complete waste of time and money. Unless that is, the driving instructor has been trained to the same standard as the Government driving examiners and know the exact agenda of the driving test. But from reading postings on here it is obvious most driving instructors who conduct these pre-tests do not have the foggiest idea.

pnag wrote: »

Funny thing is, this has happened to two of my friends in the real deal too... !

No it DID NOT, irrespective what they say they were marked for either

1. Not looking
2. Looking but at wrong times, place.
3. Not acting on what they saw.

Did they follow examples here:- Driving Fault Marking Guidelines - Observations

Or here :- Marking Guidelines - Hazards

A good driving instructor will tell you when, where, how and why you should check mirrors, do observation checks. He WILL NOT use words like exaggerate, emphasis, phrases like "make sure he sees you looking" etc etc. Change instructors if he does.

SeanW

Just before I passed my test (4th time lucky) I had to change driving instructors cause the first one was useless. When I asked the first instructor if it was OK to simply "eyeball" the mirrors during mirrrors, they said no, you need to be sure the tester sees you checking the mirror.

The 2nd instructor, who helped me pass I might add, had a lot of problems with my driving (it was crap in retrospect) but he did NOT have an issue with my observation. As in, by that time I had developed a double head-flick habit for the MSMM procedure (flick the head once to check the mirror, singal as appropriate, flick the head again to check the mirror and eyeball the blindspot, then maneuvre). I passed with no faults for observation, mirrors or any of that.

The whole "make sure the tester sees you looking" thing may well be an urban legend, but there may well be something to it.

J_R

SeanW wrote: »

The whole "make sure the tester sees you looking" thing may well be an urban legend, but there may well be something to it.

I give up

Wishbone Ash

J_R wrote: »

Beats me why people pay for these so called pre-tests. Complete waste of time and money

+1

I've been saying that for 2 years here but seemed to be on my own!