M6 - Athlone to Ballinasloe

veryangryman

veryangryman wrote: »

Another question for all...

What is happenign with the former westbound Tuam slip road and the surrounding land? I regularly see activity there, flattening the land etc.

Am i to expect an ALDI opening there soon or something? Monksland could use one.... Nearest discount store is the one in town and since circa 30% of Athlone live around Monksland/Baylough/Belnamula/, it would be a no brainer for them to make a few more quid.

That space is a bit tight for any type of supermarket. More likely just being used to store equipment during construction and landscaped afterwards.

Edit: Would be a great spot for a motorway fan to build a house!

I can just imagine the Estate agant's blurb: "ideally located for the M6"

Chris_533976

Great vid that Please tell me you had the GPS with you and routemapped it for OSM

kaizersoze

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Great vid that Please tell me you had the GPS with you and routemapped it for OSM

GPS? Don't posess one of thse new fangled thing-a-majigs.:pac:

Geogregor

highway-man wrote: »

less expensive to construct i would expect

But also less safe. Trucks can go through the metal barrier much easier than through the concrete one. Especially if there is no median to slow them down once they steer to the opposite carriageway.
I thought that concrete is now standard design on Irish motorways. Kind of compulsory to use. Seems I misunderstood something.

I think in UK all the new motorways or reconstructed parts of them have to get concrete barrier as a safer and easier to maintain option.

Amtmann

I think the metal barrier is quite worrying actually. Knowing the NRA, it's probably some pilot project of theirs. Methinks the M20 and M18 could also end up without a concrete barrier.

KevR

Furet wrote: »

I think the metal barrier is quite worrying actually. Knowing the NRA, it's probably some pilot project of theirs. Methinks the M20 and M18 could also end up without a concrete barrier.

I have a feeling the Galway-Ballinasloe scheme could be getting it too - the carriageways are seperately laid down.

I assume the metal barrier on Athlone-Ballinasloe is being used because it's cheaper which I can sort of accept seeing as though it's not a PPP/toll road.
But Galway-Ballinasloe will have a toll so comprimising on safety to save a few quid?! Not as acceptable..

Will be interesting to see the Gort-Crusheen M18 when it starts taking a bit more shape.

Zube

KevR wrote: »

I assume the metal barrier on Athlone-Ballinasloe is being used because it's cheaper which I can sort of accept seeing as though it's not a PPP/toll road.

It'll have the same speeds and traffic levels as a tolled section, so I think it's unacceptable.

The NRA have been very inconsistent on the subject of median barriers. The Athlone relief road used to have no barrier, just a little hedge, in line with the old policy that a wide grassy median was better than a barrier, as it (theoretically) allows drivers to regain control of their vehicle without a big smash. When a couple of really big head-on crashes on the M50 showed that this policy had to change, the Athlone relief road got a concrete barrier.

But: if the NRA had believed their old policy even a little, they should have put the concrete barrier on the outside of the bends, leaving a maximum of median for cars to regain control . Or even down the middle. But they didn't, the barrier travels the shortest distance along the route, cutting tightest at each bend, the exact opposite of what the NRAs old policy would dictate.

Why? Shortest distance, lowest cost: a few bob saved and screw safety. Or maybe it's an admission that their old policy was just money-saving BS.

Sponge Bob

Little bit of cognitive works too, concrete looks harder and makes people slow down just a tad more than steel.

Putting steel on straights and concrete on corners ( EXTRA LARGE concrete on the eastern approach of the bridge in Athlone) may be safer .

All concrete may dilute the desired effect by inuring drivers to relative danger . But thats just my 2c

serfboard

I agree with other posters here that using steel instead of concrete is a worrying development.

Could this have been one of the ways the consortium won the contract - their price was lower because they proposed steel barriers, rather than other tenderers who may have assumed that concrete was what was required?

I can also see this having to be replaced again in X years time, instead of doing it right first time.:rolleyes:

Amtmann

Surely the steel is also more labour intensive and slower to install.

KevR

Zube wrote: »

It'll have the same speeds and traffic levels as a tolled section, so I think it's unacceptable.
I do agree that it's not acceptable that they're using a cheaper less safe option because we are paying more than enough road tax. But I personally am a little less annoyed about it than if they use steel on the tolled Galway-Ballinasloe scheme because we will be paying a toll in addition to road tax. Didn't really put my opinion across that well earlier.

The NRA have been very inconsistent on the subject of median barriers. The Athlone relief road used to have no barrier, just a little hedge, in line with the old policy that a wide grassy median was better than a barrier, as it (theoretically) allows drivers to regain control of their vehicle without a big smash. When a couple of really big head-on crashes on the M50 showed that this policy had to change, the Athlone relief road got a concrete barrier.

But: if the NRA had believed their old policy even a little, they should have put the concrete barrier on the outside of the bends, leaving a maximum of median for cars to regain control . Or even down the middle. But they didn't, the barrier travels the shortest distance along the route, cutting tightest at each bend, the exact opposite of what the NRAs old policy would dictate.

Why? Shortest distance, lowest cost: a few bob saved and screw safety. Or maybe it's an admission that their old policy was just money-saving BS.

Hmm, are you referring to where the outside of bends has a bit of lined out carriageway and the inside doesn't have this? That bit of extra carriageway on the outside of the bend is for sightline purposes - the barrier would obscure your view into the distance a bit if this wasn't here (or if the extra bit of lined out carriageway was on the inside). I think that's a safety feature rather than a compromise.

Carawaystick

The autoroutes in France have the metal type barriers too along with a higher speed limit.


You regularly see dents in the armco and regularly see repair teams put fixing it ( which might be the difference between there and here.)

Carawaystick

Carawaystick wrote: »

You regularly see dents in the armco and regularly see repair teams put fixing it ( which might be the difference between there and here.)

One of the reasons why steel (flexible) barriers can be safer as they absorb some of the impact in a crash, concrete doesn't yield at all!

The reduction in impact injuries to the occupants of the vehicle could make a considerable difference to recovery time.

Geogregor

Carawaystick wrote: »

The autoroutes in France have the metal type barriers too along with a higher speed limit.


You regularly see dents in the armco and regularly see repair teams put fixing it ( which might be the difference between there and here.)

There are used in many countries but at least with some narrow grass median and often steel barriers are doubled.
I've never seen solution like this scheme on motorways in Europe.
It is really weird. Worse, it is worrying. Are they cutting cost so much that safety is going to be compromise?
Last year there was horrible accident in Italy, when Polish (I think) truck crossed median at full speed. There were many dead then.

Geogregor

Geogregor wrote: »

There are used in many countries but at least with some narrow grass median and often steel barriers are doubled.
I've never seen solution like this scheme on motorways in Europe.
It is really weird. Worse, it is worrying. Are they cutting cost so much that safety is going to be compromise?
Last year there was horrible accident in Italy, when Polish (I think) truck crossed median at full speed. There were many dead then.

Was this the incident you refer to; I don't think even concrete barriers would have stopped this crossover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixf11ikxJ8M

KevR

I think the idea behind concrete barriers is that in an impact from a shallow angle the step (wider at the bottom) will cause the wheel of the cars to bounce off the barrier with little damage to the body of the car (because the barrier is narrower higher up).

From a more acute angle the nose of the vehicle will start to slide up the barrier; the wheels will then impact of the lower part of the barrier and the car's suspension will be able to absorb a lot of the impact.

A simple yet great idea.

Good info on it here: http://www.concretebarrier.org.uk/


By the way, on the way to work I saw a machine washing the surface of the M6 a few kms east of Ballinasloe. Was tempted to pull in for a better look and a photo but I had just got passed a slow truck after being stuck behind it for ages and there was no way I was letting it pass me out again by pulling in.

Latest photos from the Athlone end!

Tech3

Deleted User wrote: »

Was this the incident you refer to; I don't think even concrete barriers would have stopped this crossover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixf11ikxJ8M

Did they find the cause of the crash. That was a horrific video.

tech2

tech2 wrote: »

Did they find the cause of the crash. That was a horrific video.

I don't know, but it appears that one of the driving wheels of the tractor unit locked!

highway-man

if at the tendering stage the nra rejected steel barriers they wouldnt be there of course the contractors are going to go for the cheapest option otherwise they wont be getting the work. the N18 has the same construction features of the athlone to ballinasloe but with no CBM base layer

Zoney

Surely with this armco type barrier they should at least have a narrow median (such as on N7 Limerick Southern Ring Road phase 1 which also has armco barriers) - if there is a crash - presumably the barrier even if sufficient to stop the vehicle, will deform into the opposing carriageway.

I certainly hope there is better maintanance if these are being used - but I don't expect it - those wire barriers are useless along a long stretch if hit (i.e. afterwards they may as well not be there) yet I have seen detensioned stretches even lying on the ground for months on various occasions over the last few years (a section on M7 Kildare bypass and N20 Limerick-Patrickswell come to mind).

Please can a mod move the steel barrier discussion into a new thread.

Latest view from the Monkslands bridge, it appears that the main earthworks are complete. You can now see the route of the new road.

kaizersoze

Deleted User wrote: »

Latest view from the Monkslands bridge, it appears that the main earthworks are complete. You can now see the route of the new road.

I had a look at it the other day. If you go down through Elan to the old Michael Moore garage you'll get a good close up view.

veryangryman

veryangryman wrote: »

Another question for all...

What is happenign with the former westbound Tuam slip road and the surrounding land? I regularly see activity there, flattening the land etc.

Am i to expect an ALDI opening there soon or something? Monksland could use one.... Nearest discount store is the one in town and since circa 30% of Athlone live around Monksland/Baylough/Belnamula/, it would be a no brainer for them to make a few more quid.

From what I saw today, this site has been used to take the spoil from the old N6 embankment.

Turfcutter

Is that an error on the sign?
If Dublin is 144km away, Kinnegad should be about 83km (144-61) away.

Turfcutter

Turfcutter wrote: »

Is that an error on the sign?
If Dublin is 144km away, Kinnegad should be about 83km (144-61) away.

Miles???? not quite but close 88km = 55 Miles

edit: perhaps it should be Kilbeggan?

Turfcutter

Deleted User wrote: »

Miles???? not quite but close 88km = 55 Miles

edit: perhaps it should be Kilbeggan?

Yep, looks like they mixed up Kilbeggan with Kinnegad.
There also used to be incorrect distance on the M6 on the Athlone side of Kinnegad. The sign was telling you that Kinnegad was 32km away, when the red light of the cement factory was just over the horizan.

Some kid on work experience will get his ear clipped!

KevR

Turfcutter, it might be best to contact someone in case they don't realise the mistake! Not sure if it who should be contacted - the contractor, NRA or Dept of Transport. Might be best just to send the same email to them all..

veryangryman

KevR wrote: »

Turfcutter, it might be best to contact someone in case they don't realise the mistake! Not sure if it who should be contacted - the contractor, NRA or Dept of Transport. Might be best just to send the same email to them all..

Also to add that there is a sign 2KM from the westbound N80 exit on the M6 that indicates that the R420 is the next exit. That R420 road is actually the Tullamore-Monasterevin road

Dont believe everything you read as the man says