How do I measure progress/imporvement

unionman

blorg wrote: »

a bit :eek: May lose weight but not sustainable and wouldn't do anything for your fitness.

Yeah I understated a wee bit there didn't I?;)

omri

You're overreacting. Main purpose of it is to clean your body. Second changing nutrition habits to right ones and getting nice and healthy diet. Loose of weight comes along with it as a side effect. It's good, healty, didn't kill me, but aint easy to do. only tough guys can make it ;P

RobAMerc

ROK ON wrote: »

On todays 102km I consumed 3 bananas, an apple, 1.5 powerbars, 1 cereal bar, a mars bar, 1.5 l of water and 1.5 l of lucozade sport. I guess that apart fom the fluids that this is too much food?

LOL - I reckon I put on about a stone on the ROK.:D

I treat myself very well (food wise), I also tend to treat myself better the more I do on the bike - this is why I am loosing weight very slowly I reckon.

Stark

omri wrote: »

You're overreacting. Main purpose of it is to clean your body. Second changing nutrition habits to right ones and getting nice and healthy diet. Loose of weight comes along with it as a side effect. It's good, healty, didn't kill me, but aint easy to do. only tough guys can make it ;P

http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Mother-left-braindamaged-after-.4313927.jp

Read and take note.

Also be warned that bad headaches are a common symptom of hyponatremia, which is what did the damage to that poor woman.

omri

Well I'm still here, healthy. It didn't kill me. So I suppose it's same story with opinions wheter drinking milk after certain age is good for you or not. Poor woman indeed.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/is_fasting_healthy

http://www.falconblanco.com/health/fasting.htm

Stark

omri wrote: »

Well I'm still here, healthy. It didn't kill me.

A foolish reason for assuming something is safe. You said yourself you were getting headaches, that's a good indication that something is amiss. As your own links have pointed out, the human body does a perfectly good job of ridding itself of toxins when given a normal balanced diet.

By your logic, I could advise salmonella for weight loss. "A few days of vomiting, but afterwards you'll be lighter and it won't kill you!"

omri

I did get headache up till 3rd day. I take it as normal reaction of body that is used to getting food. I'm sure anyone who had long day at work and didn't have time to grab a lunch could feel same thing. And as I said later after that point I felt good. But again as I said it worked for me. Did that to clean my body and felt great improvement with my stomach illness. So yes I'm fan of fasting.

Stark

omri wrote:

I'm sure anyone who had long day at work and didn't have time to grab a lunch could feel same thing.

And I suppose long hours and skipping meals are good for you now?

Bicyclegadabout

Omri, after 40 days of detox:

omri

Stark wrote: »

And I suppose long hours and skipping meals are good for you now?

I think you simply missing the point. Read my post again maybe. I'm doing it once a year. The rest of the year as suprising it may sound but yes I do eat meals

omri

Bicyclegadabout wrote: »

Omri, after 40 days of detox:

And please call me Armstrong, Lans Armstrong

blorg

@omri, did you even read the WebMD link you provided?

WebMD wrote:

If you weed through all the controversy, you'll find that most medical experts agree on one thing: fasting is not a healthy weight loss tool.

"The appeal is that [fasting] is quick, but it is quick fluid loss, not substantial weight loss," says Madelyn Fernstrom, PhD, CNS, founder and director of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center's Weight Loss Management Center.

"If it's easy off, it will come back quickly" -- as soon as you start eating normally again, she says.

Even some proponents of fasting for other medical purposes do not support fasting for weight loss. Some say it can actually make weight problems worse.

"Fasting is not a weight loss tool. Fasting slows your metabolic rate down so your diet from before the fast is even more fattening after you fast," says Joel Fuhrman MD, author of Eat to Live: The Revolutionary Plan for Fast and Sustained Weight Loss and Fasting and Eating for Health.

Fasting for weight loss carries other health risks as well.

Bottom line this is not going to help you improve your health or fitness and is certainly not going to help your performance on a bike.

omri

blorg wrote: »

@omri, did you even read the WebMD link you provided?



Bottom line this is not going to help you improve your health or fitness and is certainly not going to help your performance on a bike.

I think this is where we should leave it. You will not convince me neither will I.
Let's leave it this way.

Poncherello

If you want to detox eat some oranges
If you want to lose fat lift some weights and go for a cycle

one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read !

tunney

Mods lock this!

c0rk3r

No need to lock. Ill try bring it back on topic.

ROK ON wrote: »

What I want to know is:
What is the biggest impediment to my making progress weight or building up milage to do same trips at faster speed.
How long did it take people here to improve from a novice on the road to being able to zip up the hills of Wicklow and dash around the plains of Kildare. For example, does it take a few years or do I simply need to lose a lot more weight (or both).
I really enjoy my time out on the bike as it helps me to 'get away from it all.' However the competitive streak in me demands improvements. How should I set realistic goals for improving my cycling.
Thanks for reading and apologies for the long windedness.

Regarding the weight and weight loss it might be a better idea to start a thread in fitness or nutrition & Diet detailing your typical daily food intake. Theres numerious fitness instructors and food nazis to stear you in the right direction.

I started cycling maybe 4 months ago. I havent managed to cycle sally gap yet without having to pause for breath / recover from exhaustion. I've only attempted twice tbh. I put this down to not know where i should kick or just slow the pace (and of course being a ****ing tough climb) etc. eventually ill conquer it but will take another 2-3 goes i reckon.

Heres two stats from when i started to where i am now.
15/05/08
Time 2.12.49
Distance 53.91km
Average speed 24.3kph
Max Speed 41.0kph
Pheonix park

17/05/08
Time 1.38.13
Distance 38.23km
Average speed 23.3kph
Max Speed 61.7kph
Calories 685.1
Howth



6th August 2008
Distance – 49km
Ride time – 1:45:15
Max speed – 43.3kmph
Average speed – 28kmph
: Heart rate rarely dropping below 171bpm.
Phoenix Park laps. Conditions – raining.


12th August 2008
Distance – 39.24km
Ride time – 1:21:15
Max speed – 60.9kmph
Average speed – 27kmph
: Heart rate rarely dropping below 175bpm. Max-202 on climb
Howth. Conditions – raining, Strong head wind, 28kmph from met éireann


Just takes some time. You'll constantly improve just dont try rush it. As has been suggested log all data from a HRM and cycling computer to see your improvements. Good luck

E@gle.

12th August 2008
Distance – 39.24km
Ride time – 1:21:15
Max speed – 60.9kmph
Average speed – 27kmph
: Heart rate rarely dropping below 175bpm. Max-202 on climb
Howth. Conditions – raining, Strong head wind, 28kmph from met éireann

HR rarely dropping below 175!! man you need to slow down and taking it easy going out and killing yourself isnt good training. Was that a solo ride??
If im out on a solo ride i dont let my HR go over 147 as thats my basic endurance range

omri

c0rk3r wrote: »

No need to lock. Ill try bring it back on topic.


17/05/08
Time 1.38.13
Distance 38.23km
Average speed 23.3kph
Max Speed 61.7kph
Calories 685.1
Howth

Was that speed on flat or going down the hill ?

Chips Lovell

I should qualify this by saying I don't regard myself as in any way an expert on training. I think, like a lot of people on here, I've taken a very ad hoc approach to date and just by riding regularly I've found myself improving.

I started out as an ex-rugby player who hadn't done any kind of exercise for a few years. I was pretty overweight and very out of shape. Initially my goal was to just to ride regularly and keep dropping the weight. Then I started aiming at sportives like the W200 and spent most of last year building up my distances and getting used to riding in the mountains. It was only this year that I began to notice I was getting significantly faster. I guess I built up a base level of endurance the previous year and could concentrate more this year on pushing myself harder. I also knew my body a bit more and realised how to measure out my efforts a bit better.

My training hasn't changed too much over time. For the most part, I get one long 100km spin in on the weekends and then try and do around three shorter more intense rides for the week. Sometimes I do hill repeats on these rides, other times I just try and motor the whole way on a flat or moderately hilly route.

Anyway, a couple of points:

1. Don't be a slave to the numbers. Unless you're doing expensive tests in controlled conditions, your bike computer should only act as a guide to performance rather than the ultimate arbiter. You're average speed is affected by a lot more than just fitness, such as weather conditions or even the number of red lights you run into. HR monitoring is useful, but still not the holy grail of data either. I rarely pay much attention to what my average HR is over a spin. I keep an eye on mine while on the bike though to keep tabs on how long I'm putting myself in the red zone for or, on a low intensity ride, making sure it doesn't run too high.

2. Weight is going to hold you back if your goals are hilly sportives like the W200. You really notice its effect while climbing. We're coming up to the end of the summer now and it might be an idea to make it a goal to drop a signficant amount during the autumn and winter months. Long, low intensity spins are usually recommended as the best for weight loss and should also help build up a base of aerobic fitness that will stand to you next year. Don't worry about speed, just concentrate on getting a lot of time in the saddle. That also means watching what you eat. For me, that's the hardest part. I've no problem getting out on the bike regularly, but I've no discipline when it comes to food.

3. While you need to eat on the bike on longer spins to maintain your sugar levels, I think some people overeat. Sometimes I think they worry to much about bonking. With others, I think they overdo it to try and compensate for low levels of fitness. All you need is enough to get you through the spin, so it's worth experimenting with how much you need.

4. A few people mentioned cadence. Riding at a higher cadence, around 100rpm, can be more efficient for a lot of people. It reduces the amount of work put into every pedal stroke and can mean your legs won't burn out as fast as they would pushing big gears at low cadences. I've got a cadence sensor and used it to train myself to ride at around 90rpm rather than the 60-70rpm I used to do. I don't pay too much attention to it now as the higher cadence comes naturally.

5. If you want to go faster, you shouldn't overlook skill. For example, I'm a much better descender now than I was when I was starting out and I can make up most of the time I lose on hills when coming back down them. I've also twigged how important drafting can be for fast rides and how much energy I can save being tucked in behind someone else. That means getting comfortable with riding in close proximity to other people and realising that sometimes its worth to make a gut busting effort to get onto someone else's wheel.

fish-head

el tonto wrote: »

3. While you need to eat on the bike on longer spins to maintain your sugar levels, I think some people overeat. Sometimes I think they worry to much about bonking. With others, I think they overdo it to try and compensate for low levels of fitness. All you need is enough to get you through the spin, so it's worth experimenting with how much you need.

I was experimenting today.. just took a banana with me from my house to Greystones via Dalkey and back down the dual carraigeway, which clocked at 50 odd km (It was more like 45 so I just kept going to put it over 50).

Didn't need to eat eat a thing, just kept drinking the auld orange squash and I was grand. I have a bit of a reserve of fat stores hanging off me. I'm like a Camel!

Of course I am aware that that's not exactly a positive.. should save a bit of money on the fig rolls though.

sy

Agree with El Tonto on all these points. Some people really get caught up with the numbers etc. My simple advice for those cyclists starting from a low base is to concentrate on building up the miles over the first 6 months! Yes it takes a long time to get those cycling muscles working and to get used to the high cadence. These miles should be covered at a relatively low intensity with as high a cadence as possible. Don't make the mistake of overeating which is quite common with beginners to the sport. This is usually a compensation for lack of fitness. You have to get those legs spinning smoothly at a high cadence which will make your output more efficient. Most beginners increase the intensity too quickly and heartrates "not dropping below 175" :eek: is putting your health at risk. Once you build a base of a few thousand kilometers (which will also train your body to burn fat more effectively and hence lose that weight which was referred to by ROK ON earlier) So spend from now until next February spinning the legs and forget about the numbers until you build that base. Then you can concentrate on speed and averages etc. Most of all don't forget to enjoy the ride.

sy

fish-head wrote: »

I was experimenting today.....

Didn't need to eat eat a thing, just kept drinking the auld orange squash and I was grand. I have a bit of a reserve of fat stores hanging off me. I'm like a Camel!

You shouldn't have to eat on any spins less than 2 hours. Part of your training is getting the body used to burning fat. It is much easier for the body to breakdown sugar from its glycogen stores in the muscles/liver or that which is already in the bloodstream. Your secondary food storage depot is fat and it is more difficult to breakdown. The secret is to get your body used to pulling energy from both supplies. The fat for the lower intensity output and the glycogen/sugar supply for those hills, sprints etc. If you eat too much in shorter spins the body won't get used to burning your fat reserves. So ease up on the food unless your covering spins over 60km and then eat regularly and sparingly. By the way I am not an expert in these area.;) Just years of cycling, reading etc.

ROK ON

Guys, thanks for all the advice. Truth be told, I have become a bit obsessive about my speed (or lack of it) without seeing the wood from the trees in terms of environmental factors etc.
Thanks ElTonto for some very clear and concise advice. I have done one sportif (ROK) and loved it. I hope to do the 100k version of the Sean Kelly in a few weeks. I guess a lot of the ime an individual can become obsessed with stats/imporvement whereas it is great just to be out and away from it all on the bike. I will definitely be getting a better computer that calculates cadence etc.
Today I took some of the advice and cycled out and back to Maynooth without any food in my back pocket - I didn't need any. Next time I go on a long one I will bringless and see how I get on. On the cycle today, I wasnt worried about my speed as I had rain from about half way in and a stiff headwind the entire way out. My time was about 4kms slower than normal, but a lot of that was down to weather. I was happy that my speed and gear choice was very steady. Likewise, my fast speed on the way back was not me, but the tailwind. Sometimes it takes other people to point out the obvious.
c0rk3r - thanks for advice. That log idea of yours is a good one. Will be starting one of my own. As for your Sally Gap experience, I can assure you it gets easier. After 3 attempts, I still get off and suck for breath, but a lot less than I did two weeks ago. I too will get up in one go eventually. Maybe we should arrange a newbie trip up there some day.

All in all some great (and bizzare advice). Thanks folks.

RobAMerc

I like the idea of the log - could we get a sticky going where anyone interested could post our logs ?

Maybe the thoughts of having others witness my crapness might inspire me !

TinyExplosions

RobAMerc wrote: »

I like the idea of the log - could we get a sticky going where anyone interested could post our logs ?

Maybe the thoughts of having others witness my crapness might inspire me !

Stick it in the wiki!

bwardrop

Mapmyride.com also has a training diary which I use - it is a pretty useful way of keeping track of all your data.

tunney

www.trainingpeaks.com